ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
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<SupremeSteak195>
Does anyone know if there is any documentation for RO config variables? I'm trying to figure out specifically what throttleResponseRate, throttleStartedMult, and throttleStartupMult do, but can't find any source of documentation
<SupremeSteak195>
Also, does anyone know if I have to restart the game in between editing the configs, or if it live reloads?
<schnobs|work>
As for the latter, you can reload the configs but this takes almost as long as restarting the game, and doesn't always work.
<SupremeSteak195>
Good to know
<schnobs|work>
I presume you're looking at nuclear engines?
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<SupremeSteak195>
I'm actually using kOS to automating things, and I had an accurate script to execute a maneuver node, but it looses accuracy when the engines take a while to start up, so I'm trying to figure out how to disable that
<SupremeSteak195>
There is very little to go off of though, so I found in some IRC logs those three variables mentioned, but I can't figure out what exactly they do
<schnobs|work>
Well, the proper approach would be to take it into account...
<schnobs|work>
Though usually you don't have to. Most space engines start up so fast that it can be ignored.
<schnobs|work>
The notable exception being nukes, which seem to be the only engines to use the throttle* settings.
<SupremeSteak195>
The ones I'm using seem to 3 seconds or so, which on a 10 second burn drastically throws it off. I intend to take account for this at some point, but I don't want to worry about that until my program is overall working to some extent.
<schnobs|work>
Incidentally, what controls the spoolup time of non-nukes?
<SupremeSteak195>
I just found that there is engineAccelerationSpeed. Could that affect it?
<SupremeSteak195>
With the RO config file, which as far as I can tell has nothing about spoolup time in it
<schnobs|work>
Do they have a RF config?
<schnobs|work>
Yup. That's what I've been wondering about, before. Most large engines take a while to spool up (which is right and proper btw) and I don't see what controls it.
<SupremeSteak195>
The config I have changes the fuel types. Is that all the RF config is?
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<schnobs|work>
SupremeSteak195: Config is a bit of a layer cake. Typically, RF sets fuel types, mass and performance values.
<schnobs|work>
It also handles stuff like ullage, of course.
<SupremeSteak195>
Hmmm. Given that it seems like there isn't any easy way to change this, I'm probably just better off fixing my code to handle it at this point
<schnobs|work>
Incidentally, I don't see how it can be much of a problem. Then again, running an engine with a 3-sec spoolup for 10sec appears to be an odd maneuver.
<schnobs|work>
Would you mind giving me more context about that maneuver?
<SupremeSteak195>
The issue was the upperstage mvac has the 3 second spoolup, so when I tried to time a burn to raise my perigee a bit for circularization or something similar it would throw off the result, which since I'm trying to get it to be as circular as possible is not ideal
<schnobs|work>
I posit that the problem isn't spoolup time.
<schnobs|work>
KSP has a resolution of, whatsit, 20 physics updates/second?
<schnobs|work>
What's the TWR of your stage at the time? 2, 3, even more?
<SupremeSteak195>
I don't know off the top of my head, but that seems Looks to be close to 4 when the fuel is almost out
<schnobs|work>
TWR=3 means that you accelerate by 1.5m/s for every update of the physics. IIRC that's good for a couple hundred meters of orbital altitude in LEO.
<SupremeSteak195>
Oh, so the TWR is just to high to accurately maneuver
<SupremeSteak195>
At least that precicely
<schnobs|work>
Yep.
<schnobs|work>
It's impossible to make a perfectly circular orbit on a high-power engine. You need to carefully adjust for the last few meters using RCS or another small thruster.
<schnobs|work>
Well, not "impossible" -- you can still get lucky. But you can't reliable plan it.
<SupremeSteak195>
That makes sense. I should really just adjust my code to get it pretty close and then use RCS or similar to finalize it
<schnobs|work>
In stock KOS, you probably have some extra delay for your program's execution time.
<SupremeSteak195>
So doing it slowly is important
<schnobs|work>
In RSS/RO even more so than in stock KSP.
<SupremeSteak195>
Thanks very much! I'm gonna go start working on those changes now
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<blowfish>
evening
<Qboid>
blowfish: Starwaster left a message for you in #RO [23.04.2018 23:17:21]: "I've committed the last few things that I want in this update (moved some hard coded values to RFSettings; if analytic cryo is too hot / not hot enough then players can edit a couple of things)"
<blowfish>
!tell Starwaster* nice! Do any changes have to be made to the tank type configs to use it, or will they by default?
<Qboid>
blowfish: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Raidernick_>
Bornholio, link me your google doc for compatibility
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<awang_>
!wpn -add:wpn penguin
<Qboid>
awang_: Weapon already added!
<awang_>
!wpn -add:adj plush
<Qboid>
awang_: Adjective added!
<awang_>
!wpn -add:wpn plush
<Qboid>
awang_: Weapon added!
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<Maxsimal>
!tell Rokker For tooling purpose, one thing you can do is use conical adapters to scale down to a smaller tank. Whether correct or not, at this point the tooling cost for a conical part is based off the largest of its diameters - meaning if you have a 1.5m tank that needs to hook up to a 1.25m engine, you can make a 1.5m to 1.25m adapter and pay t
<Maxsimal>
he 'cheaper' price for it since you already have 1.5m tooling. And while using a cheap conical tank for this purpose is ahistoric, I would say that having an engine that struts to a reasonable range of tank sizes is not - if you want to be more correct, you can also always do it with interstages, though the mass penalty there is annoying.
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rokker>
...
<Qboid>
Rokker: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [24.04.2018 14:13:22]: "For tooling purpose, one thing you can do is use conical adapters to scale down to a smaller tank. Whether correct or not, at this point the tooling cost for a conical part is based off the largest of its diameters - meaning if you have a 1.5m tank that needs to hook up to a 1.25m engine, you can make a 1.5m to 1.25m adapter and p
<Qboid>
ay t"
<Rokker>
interesting
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<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Starwaster: blowfish left a message for you in #RO [24.04.2018 03:49:44]: "nice! Do any changes have to be made to the tank type configs to use it, or will they by default?"
<Qboid>
[#207] title: New Cryo discussion | This issue is an informational issue to discuss some new cryo features (going live for the final KSP 1.3.1 update and then on to KSP 1.4.*... | https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/issues/207
<Starwaster>
!tell blowfish to recap and answer your question: we might want to add MLI to Cryogenic/Cryogenic balloon though players can also add MLI on their own. Dewar tanks have been added to ServiceModule TANK_DEFINITION
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
[#207] title: New Cryo discussion | This issue is an informational issue to discuss some new cryo features (going live for the final KSP 1.3.1 update and then on to KSP 1.4.*... | https://github.com/NathanKell/ModularFuelSystem/issues/207
<lamont>
wat?
<lamont>
!seen egg
<Qboid>
lamont: I last saw egg on [24.04.2018 17:45:51] in #kspacademia saying: "also seasonally appropriate"
<Starwaster>
lamont: the ability to add insulation to tanks
<egg>
lamont: meow
<egg>
lamont: any updates on your requirements for principia endpoints or any issues with the existing one?
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<lamont>
“wat?” w.r.t. “Qboid: egg: Value cannot be null.”
<egg>
Qboid seems to have long-term memory issues
<lamont>
and no, haven’t been testing them, i’ve been porting my matlab trajectory optimizer to c#
<egg>
and fails in a weird way when it doesn't remember someone
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<wb99999999>
Starwaster: so what does the implementation of MLI do with the original tank types?
<wb99999999>
e.g. a cryo tank that is not been configed or manually added MLI, will it still be more insulation than a default tank?
<schnobs>
As I understand it, yes.
<schnobs>
MLI can be added to any tank (if config allows), with cryo being natural candidates.
<soundnfury>
egg: does Qboid need an LSTM? :p
<Starwaster>
wb99999999 it only does something with tanks that have had it added. Players can add 1-100 layers to a tank themselves using the part context menu
<Starwaster>
that added insulation is cumulative with any configured insulation. So if we decide to configure Cryo tanks with 10 layers and the player then adds 10 layers, he has 20 layers of insulation
<Starwaster>
MLI is more effective in a vacuum than in atmo. (three separate terms are added up for MLI conductivity: conduction + radiation + convection)
<Starwaster>
ServiceModule cryo tanks are configured as Dewar tanks and only use radiation when determining heat leakage into the tank. Dewar tanks also benefit from having MLI
<wb99999999>
so did you mean when we implement MLI, the original (pre-MLI) insulating property of the cryo tanks will be removed?
<wb99999999>
or will it be retained and simulated separately
<Starwaster>
some of the legacy insulation is still there; it simulated SOFI which is straight up conductivity through foam + tank wall. The old fake simulated MLI is sort of there but overridden if MLI is present. It will be removed completely later. (just there for compatibility)
<wb99999999>
I see
<wb99999999>
this sounds very promising
<schnobs>
Is there a practical size limite to dewars? IRL, I mean?
<Starwaster>
schnobs I'm sure there is but I'm not inclined to force those limits on players... it's a double walled tank so of course there should be practical limitations. And service modules tend to be constructed differently than the large stage tanks (integrated tanks) that launchers are built from
<Starwaster>
realistically those large tanks would never have service module type performance regarding heat leakage vs insulation
<Starwaster>
not without incurring cost and mass prohibitive penalties
<Starwaster>
But I don't think it's our job to police players either
<Starwaster>
enforce it at the RO level via configs, of course. Because it's RO. But we don't need runtime implemented limitations
<Rokker>
Bornholio: also, the air force has requested 200 million to convert 3 KC-135s into WC-135s
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<wb99999999>
what the heck is a WC
<wb99999999>
I know the K means tanker
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<wb99999999>
wait it's the nuke detector plane
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<Rokker>
wb99999999: W is Weather
<Rokker>
in this case, that weather is nuclear winter
<Rokker>
wb99999999: the try service designation system can be simple and it can be complex, depends on how stupid the DoD wants to be
* Rokker
stares at F-35
<Rokker>
and F/A-18
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<wb99999999>
no worry, just check out PLA's designation
<wb99999999>
those are the worst
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<wb99999999>
say that "QBZ" in the QBZ-95 rifle
<wb99999999>
it's Q for "small arm", B for "infantry", and Z for "intermediate caliber"
<wb99999999>
and those are in Chinese
<wb99999999>
and EVEN if you speak Chinese you still don't get it unless you look it up
<wb99999999>
it's very counter intuitive
<wb99999999>
I feel like saying something like "I'm chewing a gum, sugarless, bubble"
<lamont>
couple of my physics profs measured the radioactive plume from chernobyl hit the west coast of the US just by putting a fan in front of a filter on the roof and periodically analysing the spectrum of the filter using photodetectors
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<schnobs>
hold on. _PHOTO_detectors?
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<lamont>
think so. measure the energy in the photons coming off of it.
<lamont>
it has been 20+ years so i don’t recall how fancy the detectors were
<lamont>
or if i’ve got the entirely accurate name
<schnobs>
tell me. I was twelve.
<stratochief>
radiation is very cool, because the uniquely measurable energy levels of decays, extremely small amounts of something can be measured with relative ease
<Bornholio>
9's all modern logistics systems use Class, Subclass, use, minor type .... descending definition, US military logistics any ordering guy can ID any military part across all services
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<Bornholio>
rokker stop the planes crashing
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: pilot survived plane did not
<Bornholio>
also ejected safely is not a nice thing being an inch shorter is unpleasant
<schnobs>
Headline of my youth: "Tornado crashed, both pilots dead. No humans were harmed"
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I wonder if they are gonna downgrade the KC-135 engines or make them WC-135B/Rs
<Bornholio>
buffs can do that also, not sure i can say more than that tho
<Bornholio>
two buffs can actually fly through debris coulds and take detailed samples
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I feel like the WC is a bit more advanced tho
<Bornholio>
actually the opposite, but the WC is to do continuous sampling while the b52s doing it are when they need to know the isotope ratios more accurately
<Rokker>
Bornholio: what would it be in tri service nomenclature? WC-135R?
<Bornholio>
and yes if they are then Shit has hit the fan
<Bornholio>
probably no reason to re-engine them
<Rokker>
I'm just wondering if it would be B or R or some new letter
<Rokker>
tri service isn't strict and clear enough
<Rokker>
if you ask me
<Bornholio>
if its a convert they will likely on change th WC