ferram4 changed the topic of #RO to: Welcome to the discussion channel for the Realism Overhaul (meta)mod for KSP! Realism Overhaul Main Thread https://goo.gl/wH7Dzb ! RO Spreadsheet http://goo.gl/Oem3g0 ! Code of Conduct http://goo.gl/wOSv2M ! | Maximal & soundnfury's RP-1 Race Into Space Signup: http://bit.ly/2DEVm2i [15:01] <soundnfury> Straight Eight Stronk (and) RP-0/1 is basically "Space Agency Spreadsheet Simulator"
<taniwha>
or it was several frames before and now it's only 1
<taniwha>
1 frame at 7800m/s is 156m
<taniwha>
44m for 2200m/s
<Raidernick>
taniwha, that still kinda sucks when you are trying to dock
<Raidernick>
or do anything precise
<taniwha>
just giving a yardstick by which to judge the number of frames
<Bornholio>
i can test the shifter but i've never used descent mode before, not sure what i'd be looking for
<Starwaster>
make sure it does what it's supposed to. Shift CoM when descent mode is on
<taniwha>
which direction? how far? details, man, details :P
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, i compiled the ro dll again with that new class
<Raidernick>
i'm also testing it now
<Raidernick>
and making sure it doesn't break the old one either
<Raidernick>
taniwha, at least 300m
<Raidernick>
just going in and out of timewarp
<Raidernick>
and if i keep going in and out i can keep making it jump
<Raidernick>
over and over
<Raidernick>
and physwarp is worse
<Raidernick>
it makes the crafts rubberband around
<Raidernick>
depending on how fast the warp is
<Raidernick>
and then when you turn it off they snap back
<Raidernick>
it can cause you to collide with things
<taniwha>
I /have/ seen weirdness with physwarp
<taniwha>
but I've always taken physwarp to be krakenbait
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<Raidernick>
taniwha, i'm less concerned about physwarp as at least the ship goes back to where it started once you disable it
<Raidernick>
but the regular timewarp needs to be fixed
<Raidernick>
as things will keep moving further and further away from you
<taniwha>
it would help if I saw the problem
<Raidernick>
i can't tell you how to make it happen it just does
<Raidernick>
it doesn't even happen every single time
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, tested it myself, seems to work fine
<Raidernick>
i am able to adjust the amount of offset mid flight
<Bornholio>
i'd push it then, i'll thumbs up if i don't see any issue in 15 minutes
<taniwha>
not happening below 100km around kerbin
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, would you be willing to test the ro release candidate
<Raidernick>
i'm going to package together exactly what i'm going to release
<Raidernick>
and need that tested as is
<Raidernick>
or if anyone else also wants to test it
<Bornholio>
ok i'll do a fresh install for it then
<taniwha>
Raidernick: nor above 100km around kerbin
<Raidernick>
kerbin?
<taniwha>
you did say fresh install :P
<Raidernick>
i've only had it happen on a fresh RO/rss install
<Raidernick>
that means new stock install
<Raidernick>
with just those mods
<Raidernick>
i've never seen it in JUST stock
<Raidernick>
if it does happen it's so subtle it's not noticeable
<taniwha>
I've never played RO/rss :P
<Raidernick>
you are in the RO git tricking me! lol
<Raidernick>
irc*
<Raidernick>
bleh
<taniwha>
I do provide support for RO for some things :P
<taniwha>
Raidernick: still, we've narrowed things down a bit: definitely something in RO/rss
<Raidernick>
I'm almost 100% sure it's RSS or kopernicus
<Raidernick>
well i am 100% it's one of those 2
<Raidernick>
or even a combination of them both
<taniwha>
I'd suspect kopernicus first
<taniwha>
though if RO is doing something to MFI...
<Raidernick>
the RO plugin only has 2 classes in it
<Raidernick>
both are for com adjustment partmodules
<Raidernick>
unless you mean that the configs could be breaking it
<taniwha>
no, plugins
<taniwha>
and, hmm, COM adjustment... that sounds VERY suspect
<Starwaster>
has anyone seen cost and/or mass of an MFT NaN before?
<Raidernick>
nope
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<Starwaster>
hmmm think I know what caused it... discrepancy between saved file and config files... though the whole point of serializing that data is so that it's restored from the save regardless of what changes might have happened in the configs
<Bornholio>
If you have RF Stock configs installed you will get 2 errors in Ro_RCS_Config.cfg and MM cache will not save. .sigh
<Starwaster>
and I just crashed my game trying to test that theory out
<Starwaster>
pain is nature's way of telling you to stop and check the configs, Bornholio
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, why do you have rf stock configs
<Raidernick>
that's not required or even recommended for rss/ro
<Bornholio>
installing RF from CKAN and RO is not yet released
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, then it's a realfuels issue
<Raidernick>
and it needs to be fxied
<Raidernick>
can you make an issue there for it
<Raidernick>
ro is released but the ckan meta bot is busted
<Bornholio>
RF requires "some" set of configs in the abscence of RO only stock are available and must be installed
<Raidernick>
that's why i'm not a huge fan of ckan
<Raidernick>
if you install rf manually you don't get those configs
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, it installs realfuels stockalike configs
<Raidernick>
yeah that's not even a rf problem
<Raidernick>
whoever made those stock configs needs to fix them
<Raidernick>
it just says "all versions" and hasn't been updated in forever
<Raidernick>
Bornholio, can you post your error there and tell that guy to fix it
<Bornholio>
k
<Raidernick>
the RO rcs system was changed after 1.3.0
<Raidernick>
and this guy hasn't updated his mod in a year
<Raidernick>
so it needs to be fixed yeah
<Raidernick>
Starwaster, are you the one updating procedural parts now?
<Starwaster>
there are multiple branches. I will be updating mine in the near future
<Raidernick>
ok
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<Raidernick>
hey blowfish
<blowfish>
hi
<Raidernick>
ro is released
<blowfish>
ahh cool
<Raidernick>
could you do me a favor and fix realfuels
<Raidernick>
it needs a release for 1.3.1 to shut it up about being incompatible
<blowfish>
uhh?
<Raidernick>
it's set for 1.3.0 in checker.cs
<blowfish>
oh
<blowfish>
bleh
<Raidernick>
also apparently ckan installs rf stockalike configs with RF and it breaks RO
<Raidernick>
ro made some changes to rcs
<blowfish>
this is what happens when you have to update the version in more than one place on every release
<blowfish>
wait what?
<Raidernick>
and apparently it causes a bunch of config errors with mm while loading
<Raidernick>
it prevents the mm from caching
<blowfish>
RF stockalike and RO should both povide RO engine configs
<Raidernick>
yeah rf stockalike hasn't been updated in a year
<Raidernick>
and its conflicting with ro
<blowfish>
any idea what's causing the CKAN issue?
<Raidernick>
no idea
<blowfish>
it should allow you to install with either
<Raidernick>
i don't understand ckan
<Raidernick>
i just got reports that it installs both and the stockalike configs are breaking ro
<Raidernick>
and preventing mm from caching
<blowfish>
why did no one complain about this on 12.4.0 or 12.4.1?
<Raidernick>
no idea
<Raidernick>
lol
<Raidernick>
i ask that question all the time
<blowfish>
I can't fix issues if no one reports them!
<Raidernick>
why has nobody complained about rf giving version errors for 1.3.1
<Raidernick>
lol
<Raidernick>
i only got 1.3.1 a few days ago
<Raidernick>
been using 1.2.2
<Raidernick>
or i would've told you months ago lol
<blowfish>
should i just release that fix, or everything in 766898ae56e6fff90db187e8ddd288a703e373d4
<blowfish>
?
<blowfish>
that's the last commit before taniwha started to make 1.4 changes for MFT
<Raidernick>
why not release all the fixes
<Raidernick>
can't hurt anything right
<blowfish>
it has some RP-1 related changes
<blowfish>
but ehh, should be fine I guess
<Raidernick>
is rp1 going to stay rp1 or merged back into rp0 when it releases?
<blowfish>
no idea
<Raidernick>
that stock thing is something that needs to be fixed though as with the new ro release, it's going to cause a bunch of broken games
<Raidernick>
and you'll get the blame since it's rf that's installing it
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<blowfish>
Raidernick: is this after RO for 1.3.1 is available on CKAN?
<Raidernick>
yep
<Raidernick>
as soon as it's indexed
<blowfish>
okay, going to look at the metadata
<Raidernick>
the indexer is currently broken though
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<Raidernick>
lol
<blowfish>
would appreciate a second set of eyes
<blowfish>
well I can't fix anything if metadata isn't being indexed
<Raidernick>
lol
<Raidernick>
olympic told me it's been broken since 2 days ago
<Raidernick>
and the only guys who can fix it are awol
<blowfish>
yeah, I don't see the new RO release in CKAN's metadata
<blowfish>
so I can't do anything *shrug*
<Raidernick>
what else is new with the vanishing people right
<blowfish>
I'm guessing with RO unavailable it looks for another mod that has engine configs and only finds RF-Stockalike
<blowfish>
but you can't install RF v12.0.0 via CKAN right now so w/e
<Raidernick>
yep but if you DO manually install ro with the stockalike configs it breaks
<Raidernick>
it's not supposed to
<Raidernick>
the stock one should disable
<Raidernick>
so it will be a problem once that indexes
<blowfish>
well I can't fix that
<blowfish>
I certainly don't have commit access to RF-stockalike
<Raidernick>
left an issue there
<Raidernick>
just need the main rf release fixed meanwhile
<Raidernick>
then we can deal with that once it becomes a real issue
<blowfish>
if CKAN metadata appears miraculously it won't be an issue
<blowfish>
can always generate the metadata using NetKAN.exe locally and then submit a PR I guess
<blowfish>
(to CKAN-meta)
<Raidernick>
yeah but nobody is viewing those either
<Raidernick>
i've been trying to get ahold of the 2 guys who can
<Raidernick>
nothing
<blowfish>
ugh, the bus factor for CKAN is too low
<blowfish>
and RO, if I had to guess
<lamont>
i think the RF-stockalike issue was in 1.2.2
<Raidernick>
it was still there then?
<lamont>
yeah i think that was recommended by something even though i was installing all RO/RSS/RP-0 and it broke the world — which resulted in me doing —no-recommends and going through all the recommends by hand
<lamont>
i’m sort of 80%-ish sure that was the mod that caused me all the pain
<Raidernick>
well it wasn't updated back then either
<Raidernick>
so that wouldn't surprise me
<blowfish>
WIP changelog:
<blowfish>
* Fix vesion checker which reported KSP 1.3.1 as incompatible
<blowfish>
* Implement new entry cost system for RP-0/1
<blowfish>
* Disable thrust limiter when no throttling
<blowfish>
* Implement min and max utilization support on tanks
<blowfish>
any suggested changes?
<blowfish>
For RF-v12.5.0
<blowfish>
no objections? I'm releasing it then
<Raidernick>
sorry i was afk
<Raidernick>
looks good
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<Raidernick>
blowfish, got a response about ckan indexer shouldbe fixed soonish
<blowfish>
okay cool
<blowfish>
I am in #ckan btw
<Raidernick>
ok
<Raidernick>
that's not going to totally break rf is it?
<blowfish>
what isn't?
<Raidernick>
the meta data it generates
<Raidernick>
is it going to be correct
<blowfish>
shouldn't
<Raidernick>
or is it going to try and force download stock
<blowfish>
in fact, the current breakage is precisely because it isn't indexing
<blowfish>
I think
<blowfish>
once the metadata indexes it will ask you to install RO or RF-stockalike
<Raidernick>
does it do that if you are already installed RO first?
<Raidernick>
or only if you try to install rf by itself
<blowfish>
it will only prompt if you try to install RF directly
<blowfish>
if you try to install RO or RF-stockalike, it has no reason to prompt
<Raidernick>
blowfish, is something messed with the 12.5 release
<Raidernick>
i can only download the source
<Raidernick>
there's no zip
<blowfish>
yes, I haven't actually uploaded a release yet
<Raidernick>
oops lol
<blowfish>
have to do the gat first since assembly info is built from it
<blowfish>
*that
<blowfish>
built from git tags, I mean
<blowfish>
okay, release released
<Raidernick>
thanks
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<Raidernick>
ok blowfish heading out for the night, thanks for updating that glad to finally have all this crap sorted and released
<blowfish>
glad to help
<Raidernick>
now we just gotta do it all again for 1.4.x lol
<blowfish>
now we've just got another KSP version to push through
<blowfish>
heh yeah
<taniwha>
should be a lot easier, though
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<wb99999999>
oh bugger me
<wb99999999>
what have they done to the interface
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<BadRocketsCo>
Hullo
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<Bornholio>
FAR0.15.9.1 and RF12.5.0 udpate posted to CKAN lastnight/morning
<Bornholio>
all vodka is good, some even good enough for rocket fuel
<Bornholio>
just filter out the barf agent with potato
<Bornholio>
KSP AVC shows MFI for 1.2.2 and CKAN installs SXT Cont that shows 1.3.1, Venst still lists the 1.1.3 version after doing a full Dep/Reccomended/Suggested install on KSP 1.3.1
<Bornholio>
SXT =1.4.1...
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<Bornholio>
49135 patches but no RSS?strange its in the relationships
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<Rokker>
taniwha: that was what russia did instead of Enterprise
<Rokker>
they just attached jet engines to test flight characteristics rather than drop testing
<Rokker>
taniwha: its actually the only surviving buran technically
<Rokker>
at a museum in germany
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<Maxsimal>
Soviets were so much more Kerbal than the US.
<Rokker>
taniwha: a really neat museum actually. they have a 747 on stilts
<Maxsimal>
I'd hope that whatever engineer was hired to design the supports considered wind :P
<Maxsimal>
Shame it doesn't look like you can climb into the concorde
<zilti>
Maxsimal: not with that attitude, no
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<zilti>
Bornholio: wow, that's a neat Buran image! Really hammers home how big it is. I'm gonna see its sister orbiter in the Speyer, Germany museum soon. I wonder which parts of it are visitor-accessible, and how much of it is actually "furnished"
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<Probus>
o/
<Bornholio>
ooh, I will summon you for pictures Zilti :)
<Bornholio>
hi probus
<zilti>
You can count on that :)
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: USCM Harrier crash in africa
<Rokker>
USMC
<Bornholio>
crum
<Bornholio>
pilot okay?
<Rokker>
Bornholio: yeah, ejected fine, in "stable condition"
<Bornholio>
yes an inch shorter is stable :/
<Rokker>
so probably a bit shaken up, but nothing a marine can't handle
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I swear, harriers crash more than 32 bit KSP-RO
<Bornholio>
well it is one of the planes i've personally seen crash
<Rokker>
Bornholio: my high school engineering teacher was personally partly responsible for am Ardvark crash
<Rokker>
when he was stationed a nellis
<Rokker>
Bornholio: nice video, I saw it in my feed but haven't checked it out yet
<Starwaster>
!tell blowfish you didn't fold the cryo branch into master?
<Qboid>
Starwaster: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Rokker>
Bornholio: sweet, I got me a tornado warning
<Rokker>
Bornholio: if I die please spread my ashes in a B-52 engine
<Bornholio>
okay, not my choice of burial but if it floats your boat
<xShadowx>
in a b-52? or using a b-52? ;p
<xShadowx>
sending ashes to space has accually gone down in price to decent ish rates, funerals are roughly $10-25k, ashes to space (granted only about 1 gram) is $8-12k depending on type of orbit you want
<Rokker>
Bornholio: it's getting windy...
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: survived the tornado, but lightning just struck within like 25 meters of me
<Rokker>
so
<Rokker>
that was fun
<lamont>
those are fun — enormous simultaneous flash and bang
<xShadowx>
sounds like a real shocker
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<Bornholio>
ROKKER. gIANT 4K MONITOR APPEARED IN FRONT OF ME. Sorry for yelling. thought you might be dead or deaf
<Probus>
Jeeze Rokker, you're not supposed to get tornado warnings before me...
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<Rokker>
Probus: it's the 44th anniversary of the superoutbreak and the Xenia tornado, as well
<Bornholio>
no tornados here rokker, just a bit of the fluff
<Rokker>
Bornholio: EF10, confirmed ded
<Rokker>
Bornholio: ohio is gone
<Bornholio>
day late man
<Bornholio>
10 would be like sorm on jupiter??
<Bornholio>
stornm
<Bornholio>
bah
<Rokker>
Bornholio: in reality, i heard a tornado was seen forming, dunno if it actually formed
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<zilti>
So when a plane starts uncontrollably swiveling to the left and right, driving slalom at 40m/s before takeoff - what did I do wrong? I'm a total noob with planes
<Bornholio>
its called wheel barrowing
<soundnfury>
zilti: bigger tailfin. Including a fixed fin distinct from the rudder, i.e. not all-moving
<soundnfury>
also the CoM needs to be nearer the main wheels, or possibly further away. Or maybe exactly the same i dunno lol
<zilti>
Ah. I had a small tailfin, and removed it, because I am at the 30 parts limit and can't afford to upgrade the plane hangar yet ^^ Ok.
<camlost>
is this the first time you build a plane?
<zilti>
Well, pretty much, yes
<zilti>
I did one when I had better parts, but that's been a while
<camlost>
seems the CoM is ahead of main gear, CoL is way behind, and don't see any pitch/yaw stability
<Bornholio>
you need pitch surfaces and vertcal stabilizer
<Bornholio>
that wing is not gonna cut it :P
<zilti>
Well the wings are filled to the brim with elevons
<zilti>
LOL CoM is at the tip of the prop engine
<Bornholio>
more control surface isn't probably needed. i turn mine down a lot, probably more wing than you want, not making a sail plane, CoT should be at the tip
<Bornholio>
much better starting to look like a piper cub
<zilti>
Heh ^^ I'm not sure if the position of the CoM is good though, or if something with 0.04 T/W ratio is gonna get airborne.
<Bornholio>
it probably has more control than you want now, you could move the wings slightly back. Then go to the control surfaces and limit what they do. Inner wings whould be Pitch only
<soundnfury>
zilti: oh btw do you have crew in? You may be experiencing the part mass adder bug
<Bornholio>
vertical tail should be yaw only, horizontal tail should be pitch, and outer wings should be roll and pitch
<camlost>
no, the main wing should be roll only
<zilti>
soundnfury: I plan to sacrifi... ehh place Jeb in there, yes
<camlost>
roll on the outside , flap on the inside
<soundnfury>
well, make sure you take him out while you're tweaking stuff in the VAB
<soundnfury>
otherwise every part may be 100kg heavier, and KER will give silly numbers
<Bornholio>
.04 sounds way low.
<zilti>
Oh, yes, that twr just skyrocketed
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<zilti>
So, pitch and roll to 0%
<zilti>
Needs moar tailfin
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<zilti>
Ok, no. I doubled the tailfin and it still swivels around as if Jeb were blackout drunk
<Bornholio>
not sure i trust teh wing sections you are using, no stock tailfin even?
<zilti>
Bornholio: Nope, doesn't look like it
<zilti>
I mean, I could glue an R-7 fin on top there instead, but that doesn't seem right...
<Bornholio>
youre using a wing section as a tail...
<Bornholio>
ah should have asked but FAR?
<zilti>
Yes, FAR
<zilti>
Hmm nope, same result with the R-7 fin ^^ (render me surprised...)
<zilti>
Maybe it's simply impossible to build a plane with the start tech?
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<zilti>
Bornholio: I glued on the biplane rudder instead. Now it stays stable on the runway. But I got to 58 m/s before the runway ran out and couldn't get airborne
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<zilti>
...I assume the wings would need a "lifting surface" value to work