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<SRBuchanan>
TIL why documentation is important.
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<awang>
SRBuchanan: What enlightened you?
<SRBuchanan>
The total lack of explanation of the shader presets in the KSP part tools for Unity.
<SRBuchanan>
I have NO idea why the specular presets aren't pulling the alpha channel.
<SRBuchanan>
Or any other channel for that matter.
<SRBuchanan>
Just applying themselves to the whole part at full glare.
<Starwaster>
you know.... if I accidentally wipe out the entire astronaut complex.... I think that all astronauts NOT on assignment elswhere should immediately KIA
<Starwaster>
Garlik: Use MonoDevelop or Xamarin
<SRBuchanan>
I think it should be a chance-based thing - astronauts aren't going to be in the complex 100% of the time.
<awang>
SRBuchanan: Incomplete documentation is the best, isn't there
<NathanKell>
Pap: So...did the SSRSS stuff ever get ported over to RSS?
<NathanKell>
New bodies IIRC?
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<SpecimenSpiff>
Hi Nathan! I'm watching your stream from last night.. funny watching stock KSP, I don't even remember what height/speed is good for orbit anymore!
<SRBuchanan>
Oh hey, Electron worked. Neat.
<SpecimenSpiff>
Yep, they even have mysterious "more items tracked in orbit than they publicly had on manifest" going for them
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: Clearly I didn't remember either :P
<Bornholio>
battery pack in orbit :)
<SpecimenSpiff>
maybe they have a sneaky side-deal set up with Elon to charge up his Tesla roadster
<NathanKell>
Um, does anyone know of any working RSS visual enhancements for 1.3?
<SpecimenSpiff>
I thought ETO worked in 1.3, but I havent tried myself, Im still on 1.2
<Bornholio>
got rssve to load before. lemme test again
<Bornholio>
DX11 OGL needs important note Opening the "RSSVE_Scatterer_PlanetFix_Config.cfg" file (located under the GameData/RSSVE path)
<Bornholio>
Changing the "rendererFixEnabled" option from "False" to "True"
<Bornholio>
took me so long to figure that out. maybe i should have read the wiki
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<NathanKell>
Ah, should I be forcing DX11 then? I still play in DX9...
<NathanKell>
IIRC the godrays required 11 but the other stuff was ok?
<Bornholio>
I think so, takes less memory on my system and GC takes longer to be annoying. or i'm halucinating
<NathanKell>
It defintiely takes less RAM, but I wouldn't expect that to result in GC being better. Huh
<NathanKell>
I'll have to try it some time
<NathanKell>
but for now, staying conservative. Welp, time to go for orbit with ROMini!
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<SpecimenSpiff>
Question for the assembled brain trust. what, if anything, efffects astronaut trianing time? In my career I just got the first gemini capsule, and it's 9+ months for the proficiency course
<SpecimenSpiff>
is there something I should have/can upgrade that makes them train faster?
<ProjectThoth>
Threaten to send them to gualag.
<NathanKell>
Nothing yet IIRC
<Bornholio>
just takes a long time, missions training is short after that
<NathanKell>
^
<NathanKell>
mission training times also depend on crew stupidity
<NathanKell>
but proficiency doesn't IIRC
<Bornholio>
says the guy who wrote it :P
<NathanKell>
Yeah, but 5 months ago, hence the IIRC :D
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
Bornholio thanks, visuals working a treat! :)
<Bornholio>
awesome, i'll update a wiki then
<awang>
Wait, RSSVE requires additional config?
<awang>
I been playing off of the 1.3 branch for forever
<Bornholio>
hmmm i evaporated land around ksc :/
<Starwaster>
how did you do that
<Bornholio>
re-entry, and it was gone, the squarey thing
<Bornholio>
till i got closer
<Bornholio>
had just added RSSVE/EVE/Scatterer to my 1.3.1 install for RO
<Bornholio>
night all
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<NathanKell|Twitch>
Trying RO. Fingers crossed...
<NathanKell|Twitch>
oh crap my nick is wrong
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<NathanKell>
\o/ RO works \o/
<NathanKell>
Wow, without RT and TF it's solid green on the clock.
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<Starwaster>
if you pass a string to KSPAction() as its single param is that going to guiName? Or how is that string accessed? Like in KSPAction("a string")
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<APlayer>
lamont: Regarding aerodynamic calculations during launch, I do assume "zero AoA" means relative to the air velocity? And the air velocity is 1 revolution per 23h 56min? Or equal to surface velocity? Or equal to something else?
<lamont>
surface velocity
<lamont>
heading == surface velocity keeps things simple
<APlayer>
But that introduces an AoA, because I am launching off-equator
<lamont>
you have the intiial pitch over which is free parameters
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<APlayer>
Sorry?
<lamont>
the initial pitch over is not zero
<lamont>
zero AoA
<APlayer>
Ah, well, yes, I can launch in the direction of the surface velocity
<lamont>
no, the initial azimuth and pitch program are the free parameters, that you’re solving for, and those aren’t
<lamont>
aren’t zero AoA
<lamont>
(getting used to new keyboard tray and keep hitting enter…)
<APlayer>
Don't worry ;-)
<lamont>
then once you’ve pitched over you need to wait for the surface velocity to catch up
<APlayer>
Catch up with what?
<APlayer>
I mean, surface velocity is constant if the latitude stays constant?
<lamont>
you burn up to start with so your surface velocity is near enough just the zenith
<APlayer>
Ah, yes
<lamont>
yeah, initially it is horizontal and 400m/s or whatever, but you burn up to start so that goes away and it becomes near enough straight up
<lamont>
then you pitch over and you start to drag the surface velocity in the direction of the pitch maneuver
<lamont>
then you wait for it to ‘catch up’
<lamont>
then you follow zero AoA until booster sep
<lamont>
then you run explicit guidance until insertion
<APlayer>
But I don't think I can reasonably simulate the lift caused by the pitchover AoA
<lamont>
i wouldn’t worry about it
<APlayer>
Alright
<lamont>
that is going to be relatively tiny and explicit guidance will ultimately fix that
<awang>
You might be able to grab lift force from FAR
<lamont>
so you’ll be off by a dV or two
<awang>
But as lamont said, it's relatively tiny
<lamont>
yeah the lift during the intiial rise and pitch over when speeds are < 100 m/s or so won’t be that important
<APlayer>
So "catch up" means that the surface velocity vector gets a large enough sideways component?
<lamont>
i doubt you even need to perfectly model FARs drag model
<lamont>
yeah just watch the surface velocity on the navball
<APlayer>
Alright. I am doing this via a script, but I think I have an equivalent to watching the NavBall :D
<lamont>
you’re “dragging” it off of the zenith and you need to wait until it “catches up” with the heading
<APlayer>
Yeah, got it
<lamont>
do an actual launch though and watch what happens
<APlayer>
I did, it was a bit weird pitch-wise
<lamont>
so you pitch over and now the rocket pitch is at 85 or so, but the surface velocity is still at 88, you have to wait until that comes down to 85 before you track the surface velocity, otherwise you “bounce back” to 88
<APlayer>
Yeah
<APlayer>
I can assume infinite control authority, right? I.e. not simulate the actual pitching, just set the acceleration vector
<lamont>
yeah i would assume perfect control authority
<lamont>
heh nice
<APlayer>
Alright, that settles a lot of things at once. Thanks!
* APlayer
starts deriving formulae for surface velocity vectors
<lamont>
what i don’t know is how accurate you need to be with all your parameters for the initial gravity turn. its possible you want to save off the altitude-vs-time curve or something and then try to hit that when you do the real rocket launch, and do a sort of explicit guidance for that allowing very small deviations from zero AoA
<lamont>
but you’ll have to figure that out =)
<lamont>
there’s probably some balance between perfect simulation and guidance correction for errors that creep in, i have literally no idea what that would be
<APlayer>
Is it possible to, by default, assume, say, 90 % throttle constantly, and if needed adjust it to keep to the launch curve?
<lamont>
you should use 100% throttle
<APlayer>
That is, simulate a curve at 90% throttle, and in an actual launch, adjust throttle when needed
<lamont>
it’d be pitch you’d want to adjust up or down slightly
<APlayer>
I see... IIRC I read using throttle for that would be especially efficient or so?
<lamont>
big non-sounding rockets use 100% throttle except for max q due to stresses that KSP doesn’t model correctly so we can ignore
<lamont>
you can use throttle to hit a rendezvous
<APlayer>
I am more concerned about max g-force/payload acceleration, because the rocket should be manned
<APlayer>
But I guess that's implementable
<lamont>
ah, then you want a g-limiter and constant accelleration rather than constant thrust burns
<APlayer>
Yeah
<lamont>
you still burn at 100% until you hit that
<APlayer>
Alright
<lamont>
(which is what the shuttle did and burned at 100% until it hit like 3gs and then throttled back until insertion doing a constant g burn — that goes into your upper stage explicit guidance)
<lamont>
(although the shuttle throttled down during max q as well i think, but again due to stresses that we can ignore in KSP)
<awang>
Is it even possible for KSP to model the stresses that make throttling down at max Q necessary?
<lamont>
sure?
<APlayer>
FAR does it, IIRC
<lamont>
i think nobody would make it to orbit by hand though if those were all modelled correctly
<awang>
Wait, FAR does it?
<lamont>
most launches would have too much sideslip and rockets would fall apart i think
<lamont>
i don’t think FAR does
<APlayer>
FAR certainly disintegrates your vehicle if you suddenly yaw too much at Mach 4 or so
<APlayer>
(I learned it the hard way)
<awang>
Is that due to dynamic pressure or a different effect?
<awang>
I know FAR has aerodynamic failures, but I usually put that into a different bin mentally than max Q stuff
<APlayer>
I think it's related to Q
<awang>
ferram4: ^?
<ferram4>
Not directly based on Q, but on the resultant forces.
<ferram4>
Which depend directyl on Q
<ferram4>
Then again, you could halve Q and double your drag coefficient and you'd be just as disintegrated
<APlayer>
So throttling down in order to reduce max-Q is advised?
<lamont>
how close does it model it compared to reality? it seems like you can still get away with more in FAR than you can in reality
<APlayer>
lamont: Not sure you're the correct person to ask here, but I think this is a more or less trivial thing I am not getting - so I now have a formula to get the air's velocity at a given latitude, but in a program, how do I figure out the latitude in the first place?
<ferram4>
APlayer, Yes.
<APlayer>
Do I need a vector or something that tells me the orientation of the planet? Like one pointing from the center to the geographic north pole?
<ferram4>
lamont, It tries to do good enough for rockets and planes without having any way to differentiate the two
<APlayer>
ferram4: Wow, that's awesome. Definitely need to try out FAR
<ferram4>
That said, it's easy enough to ignore throttling down and just go straight through like a madman, 60s style
<APlayer>
I guess that can be set in the configs as a multiplier?
<APlayer>
Some sort of global "aerodynamic failure difficulty" setting?
<ferram4>
Should be something like that somewhere.
<ferram4>
Not really a difficulty.
<ferram4>
More a finagle factor
<APlayer>
Ah, heh
<APlayer>
Well, anyway, it means that I can adjust it for rockets if I don't plan using planes in a save
<APlayer>
Which, currently, is the case
<APlayer>
Not sure, I might install FAR for this save now and lose all the aero data I gathered on this rocket, or install FAR for the next save
<Starwaster>
officially going to too many extremes now to stay on KSP 1.2.2 ... I ported over the localizer class and set up a method to run that would localize parts because I was installing stuff that hadn't been made for 1.2.2
<APlayer>
Recompile "stuff that hadn't been made for 1.2.2" is not an option?
<Starwaster>
APlayer oh it's an option, but sometimes you're dealing with something that relies on the newer KSP... or some new Unity feature that came with the newer KSP
<Starwaster>
also, there is NO localization for 1.2.2 - importing the localizer class is easy enough, it's just reading game config nodes and doing dictionary lookups. But things like title, description and whatnot don't call on the localizer.... so I had to make something to sweep the part database and do the localization on the strings there.
<Starwaster>
the alternative was to go through all of the parts (this is for the Lynx rover I was doing this) and copy and paste over 500 items
<Starwaster>
in retrospect it was not a good use of my time
<APlayer>
Either way sounds like "have fun with that" :P
<Starwaster>
it's 99% finished and I think I'm going to skip the remaining 1%
<Starwaster>
it's good enough for government work
<APlayer>
So, you're spying on us out of your Mars rover?
<Starwaster>
uhm?
<APlayer>
Fixing Lynx for KSP 1.2.2
<APlayer>
Government work
<Starwaster>
lol oh. it's just an expression as to quality :P
<Starwaster>
I decided to put some lifting surfaces on my Lynx hover rover to improve its handling... did I do it right?
<APlayer>
"Lynx hover" is the appropriate term here, yes
<lamont>
Aplayer: yeah you need a coordinate system for the planet and some routines to let you convert from lat,lng on the surface to x,y,z and back (assuming you use x,y,z and not spherical coordinates, but i’d suggest x,y,z)
<APlayer>
I'm currently using x,y,z, yes
<APlayer>
So I'll try to get a vector that points from the center to the north pole, one that points from the center to the ship, and the angle between those should be the latitude
<APlayer>
The north pole vector is the hard part, though, currently researching that
<lamont>
you should pick +z for north pole or something like that
<APlayer>
I'll just keep KSP's native coordinate system, which is exposed to me directly in kOS. I can then perform the maths I am used to
<lamont>
KSP’s coordinate system is something awful though since it rotates around the ship in entirely idiotic ways frame-to-frame
<APlayer>
I was planning to get a "still" of the required coordinates at the moment of calculation start, and simulate things in that reference frame
<lamont>
yeah that would more or less make sense
<APlayer>
That is, get Earth's position, get the rocket's position, get all further required vectors, run a simulation with that
<Starwaster>
shouldn't all KSPEvent fields be fully initialized by Start/OnStart?
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<SRBuchanan>
So wait...
<SRBuchanan>
...why does Mercury 6 moo at you?
<UmbralRaptor>
SRBuchanan: uh, have you looked in its large object input file
<UmbralRaptor>
?
<UmbralRaptor>
There's an entry named EARTHMOO.
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<awang>
Awww, IRC doesn't support Chinese nicknames :(
<egg>
UmbralRaptor: SRBuchanan: that's MERCURY6, not Mercury-Atlas 6
<egg>
awang: well
<egg>
awang: punycode works
<egg>
awang: just tell people to write clients that interpret it correctly
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<xn--6kr051i>
awang: see
<xn--6kr051i>
this works
<xn--6kr051i>
it is perfectly readable :-p
<awang>
Uhhh
<UmbralRaptor>
xn--6kr051i: Is that the ideograph for "cow?"