<Bornholio>
well the shuttle pretty much soaked up everything until challenger so if not for that G would have been made
<awang>
UmbralRaptor: I'm eventually going to use stabbity in a non-#RO/#kspacademia context and everyone is going to be very very confused
<Bornholio>
and then you will laugh
<UmbralRaptor>
awang: it seems obvious, given vstabs and hstabs…
<awang>
vstabs and hstabs?
<Bornholio>
anyone aero will get it if the context is
<awang>
I know about fstab
<awang>
vertical/horizontal stabilizers?
<Bornholio>
vert stab horizontal stab
<UmbralRaptor>
^
<Bornholio>
you know the stab in the back
<awang>
lol
* UmbralRaptor
does not stab awang with a file system.
<awang>
\o/
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<SRBuchanan>
Hey, what version of Unity do I need to be using? Just the latest release of 5?
<Bornholio>
only 4 is needed unless you want to make the pedia pages
<Bornholio>
but kurrently its 5.0.4p IIRC
<Bornholio>
5.4.0.p4
<SRBuchanan>
Eh, can't hurt to get used to working in the current version just in case it becomes important later.
<SRBuchanan>
Thanks.
<taniwha>
5 is not the latest version
<taniwha>
it's old-hat now
<awang>
1.4 is supposed to be in 2017.1
<Bornholio>
^this guy
<taniwha>
and 2018 is either out or on its way
<SRBuchanan>
I'm building for RO in 1.2.2 at the moment.
<SRBuchanan>
Unity's website only lists 5.4.0f3
<awang>
1.3.1 uses 5.4.0p4, IIRC
<awang>
Oh right, what Bornholio said
<awang>
Don't mind me
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah. I'm working on the assumption that I'll need to update for 1.3.1 soon-ish.
<Bornholio>
likely 4+ will make ya your parts :P
<SRBuchanan>
Also jeebus this frickin' kid in the Discord...
<SRBuchanan>
I swear he brings the median age in there down five years.
<awang>
SRBuchanan: Any day now (tm)
<SRBuchanan>
soon (tm)
<SRBuchanan>
Soon we will have our delicious 1.3.1 glory.
<SRBuchanan>
I mean, we do now it's just kinda janky and also doesn't work with SSTU.
<SRBuchanan>
Which is another issue I should probably look at helping with but muh RCS.
<SRBuchanan>
Wow my scriptblockers hate the Unity site.
<SRBuchanan>
What is *up* with all of this third-party bullshit?
<SRBuchanan>
Well I've had about enough wading for tonight. Maybe tomorrow I'll actually boot up Unity with the required tools installed.
<SRBuchanan>
Assuming I can find a way to do that without Unity trying to fill my browser with third-party cookies.
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<awang>
Bornholio: Sorry for the delay
<awang>
git gc is still running
<awang>
Also eating up unholy amounts of RAM
<awang>
Probably at least partially because of my .gitconfig settings...
<Bornholio>
no don't rush on my part, just looking for a comparison
<awang>
Well, it's not really rushing
<awang>
Just really slow git
<awang>
And the sooner we figure this out the closer we are to a release
<taniwha>
awang: what's the repo? I can clone and see if I can find what you're looking for
<Starwaster>
lamont - I sent dju an intarwebz
<lamont>
?
<awang>
taniwha: I'm going to have to upload it on Dropbox
<Starwaster>
sentchu a pull request
<awang>
Too big for GitHub
<taniwha>
github cares only about individual files (afaik)
<awang>
And it's actually too big to upload as is to my Dropbox
<awang>
So I'm trimming out things that aren't related to 1.3.1
<lamont>
ah, so you don’t really need to do that, i tend to pretty religiously rebase from dev
<Starwaster>
awang - for what plugin?
<awang>
Some of the individual files in the KSP package go over the limit
<lamont>
just influenza been kicking my ass
<awang>
Starwaster: Plugin?
<Starwaster>
RO itself or one of its dependencies?
<Bornholio>
lamont you too, day two off work
<Starwaster>
or nothing at all related?
<awang>
idk?
<lamont>
i got sick over a week ago, its finally almost gone
<awang>
I'm trying to get Bornholio my repo to figure out why he can't start KSP with RO
<awang>
idk what that counts as
<Bornholio>
RP-0
<awang>
Same thing /s
<Bornholio>
and i can start, just exceptions in R&D
<lamont>
nearly went to the ER, fever of 103 that wouldn’t come down
<Bornholio>
eek
<awang>
o_O
<awang>
Guess I'm getting Bornholio my repo to figure out where those exceptions are coming from, then
<awang>
I'll load KSP after git gc finishes, too, to make sure that it is actually working on my machine
<Bornholio>
^important
<awang>
lamont: Managed to tough it out, though?
<awang>
Pretty sure in anywhere but the US that would easily be an ER trip
<Bornholio>
night, i'm gonna go pass out and halucinate some more
<awang>
\o
<awang>
Hopefully git gc will have finished by tomorrow
<taniwha>
39.4C vs 40C... silly to not go
<lamont>
american ERs
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<taniwha>
high fever is high fever, crowded ERs notwithstanding
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<SRBuchanan>
Welp, figured it out and actually have the model loaded into Unity so that's progress...
<SRBuchanan>
Now I just gotta author the texture...
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<NathanKell>
!tell awang what remaining kinks? I'm happy to fix 'em. I promise to log in every day (trying real hard not to fall off the wagon). Well, every day except Thursday, I'm out until midnight this one probably. >.>
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Starwaster>
I remember the first time I was using Photoshop and I saw the 'dust and scratches' filter and I gleefully clicked it because I thought it would apply dust and scratches to make my image look more worn and antique
<Starwaster>
Hey come on! Anyone could make that mistake
<NathanKell>
:D
<SRBuchanan>
Photoshop's for wusses. GIMP or GTFO.
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<xShadowx>
PS > GIMP
<Oneiros>
blashpemer
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah get out.
<SRBuchanan>
Photoshop's an image editor with the training wheels still on.
<xShadowx>
uh nu, PS can do everything GIMP can, and more
<SRBuchanan>
Admittedly GIMP is like a bike that comes completely unassembled in a box with incomplete instructions.
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah? When did PS get pure rendering tools? Last I checked it wasn't great at from-scratch rendering.
<SRBuchanan>
Photoshop normally needs a starting image.
<taniwha>
more important question, those things PS can do that GIMP can't... how likely are you to use them?
<SRBuchanan>
PS is better for altering and enhancing extant images. It's much easier to use and better for work like removing blemishes from a model's skin for a magazine cover.
<SRBuchanan>
GIMP is better for asset creation if you know what you're doing, which isn't always easy since documentation is kind of all over the place.
<taniwha>
apparently, gimp has those tools, they're just rather hidden
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah PS is better for photo touch-up. GIMP has the tools but they're much harder to find and use.
<SRBuchanan>
Huge PITA. Only reason I use GIMP for that stuff is you can obtain it legally for free.
<SRBuchanan>
My main use is more design-oriented, however, for which GIMP is superior.
<SRBuchanan>
Right now I'm 'unwrapping' a reference image of the thruster I'm making so I can use it as a texture. GIMP's good for that.
<taniwha>
I've found that using blender's texture baking is quite nice for texturing
<xShadowx>
always used blender to unwrap models i made :|
<xShadowx>
never seemed to like other stuff, though admittedly 1/2 due to 'ugh opening yet another tool' syndrome
<SRBuchanan>
To be fair, more tools means worse workflow.
<SRBuchanan>
Any time you alt-tab and get more than one line of options it's going to slow you down.
<xShadowx>
people still use alt-tab?
<SRBuchanan>
What am I going to do, actually move my mouse to the taskbar?
<SRBuchanan>
Like a peasant?
<xShadowx>
just give in, buy that 2nd/3rd/4th monitor ;p
<SRBuchanan>
I need to do that.
<SRBuchanan>
I'd still be alt-tabbing though.
<xShadowx>
my stand holds 3, but i still onl using 2 -.-
<SRBuchanan>
I'm making do on a single 2K monitor.
<xShadowx>
original idea was buy a 3rd, simple right?
<SRBuchanan>
Heh.
<SRBuchanan>
Well right now I could spend money on an SSD, another monitor, or a decent bottle of Scotch.
<SRBuchanan>
And I might need the scotch to deal with the process of diving into modding.
<SRBuchanan>
I suppose I could always try to salvage my old laptop monitor, if I can stand to have a TN screen in my presence again.
<xShadowx>
then dumbass me saw 4k monitors......curved monitors......21:9....thought 2x 21:9 32in would be better (only 1 border) vs 3x 16:9 21in (have 2 atm)
<SRBuchanan>
Symmetric 2-monitor setups are weird.
<xShadowx>
then saw price of em, $1k+ XD
<SRBuchanan>
Having the split down the middle throws me off. I'd rather have 2-monitor asymmetric (horizontal/small vertical) or full three-monitor.
<xShadowx>
2x 21:9 32in is the same width equiv to 3x 16:9 21in
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah I'd figured that out.
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<SRBuchanan>
I play with rockets for fun. I can math.
<xShadowx>
ah didnt think of turning em, but then i wouldnt be able to either
<SRBuchanan>
What's the display tech? IPS or TN?
<xShadowx>
my stand doesnt move em up/down, that center line would be all 3
<xShadowx>
so having turned, wouldnt allign bottoms
<xShadowx>
collide with desk :|
<xShadowx>
er huh?o.O
<SRBuchanan>
In-Plane Switching or Twisted Nematic field effect.
<SRBuchanan>
Two most popular forms of LCD display technologies in PC monitors. TN is cheaper and can potentially support higher refresh rates, while IPS is a bit costlier but has faster response times and more vivid colors from a wider range of angles.
<SRBuchanan>
I roll with IPS because it looks better.
<SRBuchanan>
Er, slight correction, modern TN panels have better response times than modern IPS panels.
<SRBuchanan>
If you don't know what kind you have, you probably have TN.
<SRBuchanan>
Like a serf.
<SRBuchanan>
Anyways, I gotta get some sleep. 'Night.
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<Starwaster>
The deltaV MechJeb bug has aggravated me for the last time.
<Starwaster>
The latest change to FuelFlowSimulation is definitely the culprit
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<Starwaster>
no never mind that might not be it after all.... it's one of the recent changes to that file tho
<Starwaster>
crap is it fixed for KSP 1.3.1?
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<Oneiros>
so running a recent version of FAR with RSS
<Oneiros>
atmospheric density is 0 about 70km
<Oneiros>
*above
<Oneiros>
*above
<Oneiros>
its supposed to be higher right?
<Oneiros>
the 70km cutoff makes me think it's still using the kerbin configuration
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<Starwaster>
oneiros either that or it's not accurate enough to read. How many decimal places does the field go to?
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<Oneiros>
its the FAR readout
<Oneiros>
IIRC about 4 or more
<Oneiros>
i think i might need to use stock size RSS. the RSS seems very buggy.
<Oneiros>
lighting is bad, terrain detail is almost zero, and the terrain keeps vanishing and flashing back and forth (forgot the technical term) where the sea meets land.
<ferram4_>
There are other mods that add visual stuff if that's what you want.
<ferram4_>
I mean, let's be real, Kerbin is kinda the same exact thing.
<Oneiros>
well the launchsite on RSS is just flat terrain everywhere
<ferram4_>
For a very short distance, yes, but then it should fall off very quickly to the East at the coast.
<Oneiros>
and while there are some graphics artifacts, overall there's much less.
<ferram4_>
I mean, KSC is built on a sandbar and Florida is flat as all hell.
<Oneiros>
it was pretty much totally flat as far as i could see
<ferram4_>
Florida is flat. Real flat.
<ferram4_>
Reenter over the Himalayas and it won't be flat.
<Oneiros>
ok lol
<Oneiros>
if i can ever download the 4k texture pack off git i might try again
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<QualifyingRaptor>
Earth is flat (well, smooth)
<Oneiros>
every time it fails just below 100mb
<QualifyingRaptor>
More so in orbiter.
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<awang>
Bornholio: Still need the git repo?
<Qboid>
awang: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [17.01.2018 03:08:56]: "what remaining kinks? I'm happy to fix 'em. I promise to log in every day (trying real hard not to fall off the wagon). Well, every day except Thursday, I'm out until midnight this one probably. >.>"
<Oneiros>
has anyone uploaded these to somewhere other than github?
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<Oneiros>
the download link keeps changing so i can't resume.
<Oneiros>
hopefully ssrss has less graphical artifacts.
<awang>
!tell NathanKell I thought there were some bug with training not working. Issue #787, at least? And mission training doesn't seem to work on my save. I haven't taken a closer look why yet though
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Oneiros>
not sure if its just my install, or a known issue.
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<Oneiros>
i was also hoping the 4k textures might help.
<Oneiros>
if i can ever download them.
<awang>
!tell NathanKell There's also the unlock costs not working. I think the RF changes I ported to 1.3.1 fix that, though. Still needs to be merged though
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang>
!tell NathanKell Looks like I have a remaining question on my RF PR too
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang>
!tell NathanKell There's also some weirdness going on with the proc avionics sliders, where they'd get clamped to the 200% utilization value well before the slider actually reaches there (e.g. if 200% utilization is when avionics supports 1.5 tons, a slider value of 1.6 tons may get clamped straight to 1.5)
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang>
!tell NathanKell I was planning on taking a look at the proc avionics thing, though, since I'd already been poking around there. It isn't that bad of an issue though, since it really only affects those trying to eke out every bit of dv
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Starwaster>
oneiros I can confirm what ferram says as a native Floridian. We don't have hills or mountains or anything like that unless someone deliberately piles up enough dirt to make a hill.
<Oneiros>
lol itsok, i dont doubt that
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<Oneiros>
i had other concerns
<Garlik>
Hi guys, been reading in the IRC these last few days but did not come in before
<Garlik>
about RP-1 unlock costs, I doubt it is because of RF, as structural parts also are affected
<Garlik>
though not all, so I dont know what the problem is, I looked up the code, but did not find where the bug could come from
<awang>
Garlik: Maybe? I have a fixed-ish version of RF running on my install, and unlock costs worked just fine
<awang>
Or at least as far as I remember
<awang>
Don't think I tried it with structural parts
<awang>
Definitely was working with engines/tanks
<Garlik>
yep, odd thing, not all parts are affected
<Garlik>
some engines unlock work, some dont, same for science parts, and basically all parts type to what I could see
<Starwaster>
does anyone have a GOOD picture of the Cygnus service module? Showing RCS placement?
<Garlik>
even the very first pars to unlock on a new carrer (1$ cost)
<Garlik>
To my knowledge, all others on RP-1 all have the same problem
<awang>
Ah
<awang>
Guess I'll recompile then
<Garlik>
sadly, most just talk about it on discord/reddit but dont post
<Garlik>
on github
<Garlik>
your the RF dev?
<awang>
Nah, I wish
<awang>
I just help out from time to time
<Garlik>
oh, sry, I dont really know any modders
<awang>
No problem
<Garlik>
I should get myself a mod Unity envionment too to recompile some things I'dd like to change, never took the time
<Garlik>
and 'afraid' it would mess up my current 2017.1 Unity
<awang>
If you're just dealing with C# code, you don't need Unity
<Garlik>
oh?! you have a link explaning the procedure? never even looked it up
<awang>
Are you on Windows?
<awang>
Setup is pretty simple
<Garlik>
procedural wings are too small for my B-52 stratofortress :P
<Garlik>
yes, win7
<awang>
I have that same problem, actually. I just ended up sticking a bunch of proc wings together
<awang>
Install Visual Studio if you haven't already
<awang>
Then just double-click the .sln
<awang>
Er, brb
<Garlik>
yep no VS at work, I'll do that when back. if I can solve the B9 sizes (already found the code to change) and make it work, I'll send it to you too, no more wing glue needed
<awang>
I might have done that already
<awang>
Don't remember
<awang>
Except to try to get a thinner minimum wing
<awang>
Trying to match the thinness of the X-1E, if I remember correctly
<awang>
3/8"
<Garlik>
oh, acutally, I just saw you were the one kindly aswering me about that in the KSP forum B9 thread in december :)
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<awang>
Oh really?
<awang>
Small world :P
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<Garlik>
Awang, I tested your RF.dll. new test campaign, cheat science points and $, all parts seem to unlock correctly and remove the funds as supposed
<Garlik>
I'm curious, I could imagine RF has linked with tanks and engines, but how come it also messed up other parts unlock costs?
<Garlik>
like structural parts
<Garlik>
are there other changes in your .dll to be aware of?
<Qboid>
[#811] title: Dev RP-0 / RP-1. Unlock costs not deducting funds | I have noticed this a lot, and Reddit/Dicord users all seem to have this problem with RP-1:... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/811
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<awang>
Garlik: Glad to hear it works!
<Garlik>
Awang, actually no. Your .dll do solve the unlock costs, but break the core it seems
<Garlik>
sorry
<Garlik>
no more right click menu on tanks in the VAB allowing to choose fuel
<awang>
I wouldn't know why RF affects part unlock costs for everything else
<Garlik>
previously saved ship now show 0dv in MJ
<awang>
I'm not familiar enough with the general architecture to know
<awang>
As you can see, other people did the hard work. I just ported the changes to 1.3.1
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<APlayer>
Hi there!
<awang>
Posting should be alright, as long as it's clear that this is a 1.3.1 dll
<Garlik>
oooh, ok, my bad
<awang>
Garlik: No problem
<Garlik>
thought that was a backport for 1.2.2, indeed with 1.3 UI changes, logical breaking
<Garlik>
I'll keep it in the back of my sleeve for 1.3 ;-)
<APlayer>
Just wanted to ask real quick, anyone has some experience with configuring RVE?
<awang>
Well, the changes used to be based on 1.2.2
<awang>
Surprised that it worked for you then if you're on 1.2.2
<awang>
APlayer: I can't help, unfortunately :(
<awang>
Garlik: You can also join Bornholio and try a 1.3.1 setup
<APlayer>
I use RVE in my install right now, but it's a bit taxing on my GPU, and the main issue seem to be the large volumetric clouds. Is there a way to make them smaller and/or less in order to ease the strain a bit, without fully disabling them? And if no, what do I need to uncheck to disable them? layer3D (I think that was the option) has no visible effect to me
<awang>
Garlik: Links to updated things should be in Bornholio's spreadsheet here:
<awang>
If not updated things, then PRs for updated things
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<Starwaster>
I don't think Bob Kerman likes to fly... he always looks unhappy during high-G events... or when part of the ship is on fire... or when nearby things explode...
<APlayer>
What a silly one, he has no idea how a proper rocket launch has to look like!
<APlayer>
You don't happen to be the Starwaster of DRE, by the way? :D
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<Starwaster>
that's just in the VAB and then on final descent
<Starwaster>
I completed two tourist contracts and had one tourist from the next contract in
<APlayer>
Nice! Looks like a tourist cluster bomb :D
<Starwaster>
That's my record. Previously the most I had done was four
<Starwaster>
usually they have no chaperone... I mean, why bother? MechJeb can get them where they need to be. It's just suborbital
<Starwaster>
but I wanted Bob to have some flight experience
<Starwaster>
I'm now upgraded enough that it's semi-automated. Hitting the stage button automagically starts the MechJeb Ascent Guidance AP
<Starwaster>
pressing abort jettisons everyone, turns them retrograde for reentry and arms chutes
<Starwaster>
It's almost safe but this last time, a tourist capsule almost collided with Bob's capsule when the drogue chutes jettisoned
<APlayer>
Humm, I am myself currently somewhat struggling with RSS launches. So I have this rocket with 4800 m/s of delta-v in each stage, lower stage has an atmospheric TWR of 1.51 - 6.46 (can be reduced because the engines are clustered), and the upper stage has a vacuum TWR of 0.4 - 1.64. But I can't seem to make the upper stage circularize, I either keep running out of fuel because the first stage was too steep, or I fall
<APlayer>
back into the atmosphere because it was too flat
<APlayer>
Starwaster: Considered adding sepratrons to push them away from each other?
<Starwaster>
I don't have sepratrons yet... I dont know why, it's weird
<Starwaster>
my techtree is still stock
<Starwaster>
uhm about your rocket, are you using PEG guidance?
<Starwaster>
wait what version of KSP are you using?
<Starwaster>
and which build of MJ?
<APlayer>
Starwaster: Currently trying to launch by hand to get a sense of what an algorithm should be doing, but I intend to implement PEG with kOS sooner or later, yes
<APlayer>
KSP 1.3.0 (Not a full RO install, just a bunch of mods from the suite), no MJ
<Starwaster>
eehhhhh I haven't done a manual orbit on RSS in a really long time
<Starwaster>
some guidelines though
<Starwaster>
and this is based on a Saturn V launch, so the further your launcher deviates from that, the less valid it might be
<APlayer>
Does the rocket design, by the numbers, look reasonable? Or is there optimization potential?
<Starwaster>
you want a pitch rate of about 0.5 degrees per second
<APlayer>
Humm, I see
<Starwaster>
at 60km altitude you want a downrange of 90 km
<Starwaster>
it's ok if your Ap goes too high at first in fact it might make things easier. You'll just have to pitch down, maybe below the horizon to even it out
<Starwaster>
I mean, not REALLY too high but just higher than your target....
<APlayer>
I currently target ultra-LEO, below 200 km
<APlayer>
AP on what I considered a good launch was at 250 km (peak), then started getting lower as I passed it, but I eventually reentered
<Starwaster>
aiming low can make things harder, it depends on your ascent. I think from those numbers you can do it but you don't have margin for earror really
<APlayer>
The launch that came closest to orbit had an AP peak of more than 400 km, and I ended up in a 350km x -300km orbit, IIRC
<Starwaster>
if you pass Ap then pitch up to try to keep your vertical velocity low
<Starwaster>
probably too seep then
<Starwaster>
steep
<APlayer>
Humm, alright, let me try again
<Starwaster>
tottsa afk
<APlayer>
tottsa?
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<APlayer>
Wohoo! 400 * 9 km "orbit"! :D
<APlayer>
That's in the realm of the possible to finalize with an RCS burn. Thanks a lot for the advice, I am off for today, though
<Starwaster>
semi automated. Staging turns on MJ ascent AP
<Starwaster>
abort key arms chutes, jettisons the stack and turns the capsules retro
<Starwaster>
it's a real money maker
<wb99999999>
its that insurance scam of a LV again
<Starwaster>
who was it that said he would run screaming the other way if he saw that ship? Bornholio maybe?
<Starwaster>
or was it you?
<wb99999999>
only larger
<wb99999999>
it was me
<Starwaster>
lol
<Starwaster>
I just did another 7 man launch
<Starwaster>
multiple tourist contracts getting fulfilled right now
<wb99999999>
just bulild a space plane already
<Starwaster>
only six tourists, three contracts. I put some astronauts int he core capsule so they can get flight exp
<Starwaster>
bah
<Starwaster>
I cant build palnes yet
<Starwaster>
planes
<Starwaster>
this is only semi-RO.... stock tech tree 10x kerbol
<wb99999999>
I can't land one safely even if I have one anyway
<wb99999999>
winged spacecraft is just way too harsh under FAR
<wb99999999>
I used to play modded stock system and built a bunch of SSTOs, but non landed in one peice...
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<wb99999999>
those hypersonic wing types just...they glide so much when they're fast to the point of overshooting the runway
<wb99999999>
but then sink like a lead brick in LH2 when they got slow
<wb99999999>
...was this what the shuttle is like?
<wb99999999>
maybe my design concept is wrong...maybe I shouldn't try to lift so much propellant with wings
<wb99999999>
Starwaster: are you playing with smurf?
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<Starwaster>
wb99999999 no, I use RF so I don't need no blue kerbal mod
<wb99999999>
oh I see
<Starwaster>
I'll grind up SMURFFs to make my rocket fuel
<wb99999999>
RF and 10x sounds like a very plesent way to play tho
<Starwaster>
well, my tourist scam... err I mean SCHEME... err I mean PROGRAM DAMMIT has exposed a need for a mass recover function to recover all craft at once
<Starwaster>
10x Kerbin is almost as big as Earth
<wb99999999>
do it on the map?
<wb99999999>
I mean the tracking station
<wb99999999>
you still need to click them one by one but at least you can do it all at once
<SRBuchanan>
It's by far the best way to do it.
<Starwaster>
I do it in the tracking station... that means... point at craft, click recover, move pointer to confirmation button and click recover again
<Starwaster>
then hit escape on the recovery window and rinse and repeat
<Starwaster>
too many clicks
<wb99999999>
I do think there's a flight management mod somewhere
<SRBuchanan>
Then I guess you'll just have to git gud.
<Starwaster>
I love the contract message I came up with for radiators....
<wb99999999>
talking about RF however
<wb99999999>
do Soviet LVs usually have lower mass fraction?
<Starwaster>
not sure... not that I know of, at least not substantially if at all
<SRBuchanan>
Eh, their early ones definitely did.
<SRBuchanan>
They had larger payloads but *much* larger platforms.
<wb99999999>
I am thinking of Proton specificly
<wb99999999>
if you built a rocket in RO using the configaration of the Proton
<wb99999999>
you can lift ~30 tons to orbit
<wb99999999>
but IRL it can only do 24 tons or so
<SRBuchanan>
22.8, to be exact.
<SRBuchanan>
Does your total mass match?
<wb99999999>
right
<wb99999999>
no
<wb99999999>
if I match the empty mass and propellant mass, it would be exactly like the real life proton then
<wb99999999>
the point is if you try to use the same engine and have roughly the same sized tank
<wb99999999>
you lift way more
<SRBuchanan>
You run into overperformance with crude replicas because a lot of miscellaneous mass isn't accounted for.
<wb99999999>
so my guess is the structrual mass of the rocket is a lot more than the RF defalt tank
<wb99999999>
which is modeled after the Saturn series
<SRBuchanan>
As comprehensive as RO is there's still a lot of details it doesn't model.
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<wb99999999>
I did take into acount of that part
<wb99999999>
I added avionics, RCS tanks, structrual parts for better looking engine mount
<wb99999999>
not completely of course
<wb99999999>
plus, if you build a Atlas V, it will lift about the same amount of payload
<wb99999999>
a few tons of discrepency at most
<SRBuchanan>
If you use the RSB parts the numbers are almost dead-on.
<wb99999999>
indeed.
<wb99999999>
my theory is since the procedural RF parts are modeled after the Saturn V stages
<SRBuchanan>
I think either the RSC parts are slightly sub-scaled or the other mods' RD-180's are slightly overscaled because they don't fit together properly.
<wb99999999>
they have in general a lower mass than the Soviet counterpart
<SRBuchanan>
Soviet tankage was a bit more massive for a given volume, thanks to slightly cruder fabrication techniques.
<SRBuchanan>
Made it a lot cheaper to produce though.
<wb99999999>
I think Glushko? has complained about the N-1 for its high dry mass
<wb99999999>
he especially hated the second stage in comparison to the very light S-II stage
<wb99999999>
common bulkhead and everything
<SRBuchanan>
If you look at Soviet designs you'll notice a much harder drive for mass-efficiency when it comes to overall configuration to counter those concerns.
<SRBuchanan>
American rockets are much taller and more slender for optimal aerodynamics, while Russian ones are squatter and wider to decrease the surface area of a given volume of bunkerage.
<wb99999999>
but then if you metion "space rocket" to someone who's not into aerospace he/she will probably think of a Soyuz
<SRBuchanan>
It's matured into a pretty good platform.
<wb99999999>
or maybe it is because my cultural background...
<SRBuchanan>
I'm of the opinion that the Russians were historically better at rocket design. America had a huge edge in the space race primarily because of better ability to actually produce something from their designs.
<wb99999999>
you know before I got into all these stuff, I'd think of a T-72 if you say tank, a Su-27 if you say fighter jet, a Soyuz if you say rocket in my head
<wb99999999>
they just looks right for me
<SRBuchanan>
I grew up in the latter part of the Shuttle era, so with all of its flaws and unconventional design principles it's still my default 'spaceship.'
<wb99999999>
that make sense
<SRBuchanan>
I also think of the F-14 as my default jet fighter. What a beauty.
<SRBuchanan>
For tank - eh, probably the Sherman.
<wb99999999>
well I'm also Chinese, so it make sense
<SRBuchanan>
So yeah, cultural components.
<SRBuchanan>
PRC or RoC?
<wb99999999>
PRC
<wb99999999>
that's the sense part
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah, long history of using Russian gear or clones thereof.
<wb99999999>
if I was from RoC I'd probably think of a F-104 when someone mention fighter jet
<SRBuchanan>
More of an interceptor really. Shaped like a rocket with stubby little fins for wings - it's even named the 'Starfighter.'
<SRBuchanan>
Goodness, do they still use those things?
<SRBuchanan>
In the US we'd call it an antique.
<SRBuchanan>
'That belongs in a museum!'
<wb99999999>
I'm not sure
<wb99999999>
they sure did use it until much later
<wb99999999>
okay, wikipedia says RoC airforce used F-104 until 1998
<SRBuchanan>
That's a pretty long run. Looks like they use the F-16 now along with the French Mirage.
<SRBuchanan>
France'll sell weapons to anybody. It's kind of absurd.
<Rokker>
museum
<Rokker>
ping
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<SRBuchanan>
Yeah the Mirage belongs in a museum as well.
<SRBuchanan>
It's actually a bit younger than the F-16... but the F-16 wasn't, y'know, built by frenchmen.
<SRBuchanan>
French weaponry: for when you can't get the Americans to come to the table.
<wb99999999>
hah, what about the Type 59Ds (basically radically modernized T-54) in the rear echelon tank units in PLA
<wb99999999>
those should go to museums too
<SRBuchanan>
Rockin' the FAMAS like 'lul what's bore/sight axis?'
<Rokker>
put it all in museums
<Rokker>
my museum still needs an f-35
<Rokker>
and a b-21
<SRBuchanan>
I want to put the FAMAS in a museum titled 'why you should just rifles from the Germans.'
<SRBuchanan>
Hell, the USAF still flies B-52's.
<SRBuchanan>
*'why you should just buy rifles from the Germans.'
<wb99999999>
I'm seeing a parttern
<SRBuchanan>
Germans have actually invaded a foreign country (temporarily) successfully in the modern era?
<wb99999999>
after the war any country East of Germany have at least some ideas about how to make a good service rifle
<SRBuchanan>
Yes.
<wb99999999>
but anyone that's West of it just can't pull it out
<SRBuchanan>
Eh, there's Belgium.
<wb99999999>
well...right.
<SRBuchanan>
Belgium makes good guns sometimes.
<Rokker>
wb99999999: um I'm sorry but what
<wb99999999>
but FN FAL got strong armed into using uncle sam cartridge...
<wb99999999>
I mean on the European continent
<Rokker>
ah
<Rokker>
hmmm
<wb99999999>
the US was fine
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah. Funny enough now the drive for 6.2-6.5mm 'heavy intermediate/light rifle' cartridges is now in the civilian market.
<Rokker>
idk, if say there are some good ones post cold war
<SRBuchanan>
I like the intermediate/rifle 'compromise' rounds. I need to get something chambered for one.
<SRBuchanan>
Now we've also got .300 Blackout for those of us that want an AR-15-pattern rifle that fires SKS-type rounds, which is pretty great.
<wb99999999>
the sad thing about being in Canada...
<SRBuchanan>
...is having all of that healthcare and nobody to shoot you so you can use it?
<Rokker>
wb99999999: is that it's not america?
<Rokker>
also, I went to an amazing gun show the other week
<Rokker>
likw
<Rokker>
amazing
<wb99999999>
I'd really want to try some old guns, which is not as common here
<SRBuchanan>
I'm not a huge gun show guy.
<SRBuchanan>
Old guns are the BEST.
<wb99999999>
maybe some grandpa bolt rifles
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: this was like an exceptional gun show tho
<SRBuchanan>
I'm a beast with a Springfield Model 1861.
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: everything from old flintlock muskets to brand new target shooting rifles
<wb99999999>
WW1 stuff, maybe even 19th century stuff
<Rokker>
SRBuchanan: they had a fucking Webley Fossberry
<Rokker>
Fosbery*
<SRBuchanan>
Nice.
<Rokker>
sure it was 13 and a half grand
<Rokker>
but still
<Rokker>
also a full auto MAC-10
<SRBuchanan>
Nice.
<Rokker>
and American 180
<wb99999999>
my friends was like why'd you want a wooden stick when you can have AR15
<wb99999999>
because I'm not going to a battle, duh
<Rokker>
wb99999999: meh, I can see the appeal of both
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah. I've got one gun for if someone breaks in and the rest are for fun.
<Rokker>
honestly tho, with all the money I've spent on shooting, you would think I would have bought a gun already
<wb99999999>
in that case a Glock would do just fine
<Rokker>
hell I could have bought a scar
<SRBuchanan>
Get the Steyr M9, the Glock's grown-up brother.
<Rokker>
nah
<Rokker>
P320
<SRBuchanan>
Like a Glock with a trigger that doesn't suck.
<SRBuchanan>
>P320
<Rokker>
doubles as an impact grenade
<SRBuchanan>
>lul what's bore axis.
<SRBuchanan>
>Lul stairs = full-auto fire selector
<SRBuchanan>
I wanted to get one before the whole drop-safe scandal. Rented one, tried it, hated it. Like holding a brick that occasionally got *very angry* in a specific direction.
<SRBuchanan>
The bore is so far above your hand it's ridiculous.
<SRBuchanan>
Trigger's alright though. The Steyr M9's trigger is pretty great although the reset isn't quite as obvious as I'd like.
<wb99999999>
there was a story a few years ago about a police operation...
<wb99999999>
you know in China most houses have steel doors right
<SRBuchanan>
I do now.
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<SRBuchanan>
Hey Stratochief.
<stratochief>
o/
<wb99999999>
there was a bunch of drug dealers who got found out in their hideout, and there's 2 or 3 policemen trying to break in
<wb99999999>
they got a locksmith to unlock the door for them, and put a kevlar vest on him just in case
<SRBuchanan>
Getting busted for pushing drugs in the PRC sounds like a pretty bad experience.
<wb99999999>
the drug dealer heard the noise, and shot through the door, killed the locksmith
<wb99999999>
through the door and the kevlar
<SRBuchanan>
Geez, was he packing a 5.7?
<wb99999999>
turns out they had FN57s
<wb99999999>
yes
<SRBuchanan>
Ha!
<SRBuchanan>
Called it.
<wb99999999>
they also shot a policeman
<SRBuchanan>
Such a stupid round for literally any other situation.
<Rokker>
shooting at Chinese cops seems like just a generally bad idea imo
<wb99999999>
he didn't die because his vest was on the locksmith
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah sounds like a bad time.
<SRBuchanan>
I don't think a single round of 5.7mm is likely to kill someone vest or not.
<Rokker>
like at least in America I feel like you have a slim chance of making it to court and jail
<SRBuchanan>
Overpenetration for days.
<wb99999999>
the things is Chinese cops usually have a rouger time
<xShadowx>
Rokker: depends if cop dies or not
<xShadowx>
and which state
<wb99999999>
they are requiered to reserve the use of force of and kind as much as possible
<wb99999999>
so there's cases where drunk woman slaps the cop in the face
<wb99999999>
and the cop would just hold her hand and tell her to calm down
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah in the USA you can get your ass beat for that.
<SRBuchanan>
Or tazed.
<wb99999999>
yep
<xShadowx>
tazers ruined things
<SRBuchanan>
Well I mean it beats getting SHOT.
<wb99999999>
also police partrols are usually unarmed
<xShadowx>
but doesnt beat shooting
<wb99999999>
they usually have just a baton or something
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah. Tazers are cumbersome and not the thing you want to be using when you're cornered.
<xShadowx>
all this 'less lethal' bs -.-
<wb99999999>
the bank truck escort are more armed than the partrol police in China...
<xShadowx>
rent-a-cops
<xShadowx>
buys stuff
<wb99999999>
cash truck escort usually have shotguns and pistols
<xShadowx>
er $
<wb99999999>
but partrol police have but a baton
<xShadowx>
shotguns is a nice way to go, you dont fuck with someone with a shotgun ;p
<Starwaster>
wb99999999 just did a 13 man version of my tourist trap
<wb99999999>
what?
<Starwaster>
Billy Boblie Kerman accompanied twelve tourists
<wb99999999>
good XD
<Starwaster>
this is so ingenious... I dunno why I didnt think of this before
<Starwaster>
it's just point click and ship
<Starwaster>
fire and forget
<Starwaster>
my god there's just a cloud of Mk1's floating in space
<Starwaster>
btw did you know that tourists can't click RPM controls? If they try, it says stuff like 'Rodrick Kerman, stop pressing buttons!' (or whatever their name is)
<xShadowx>
i like it :D
<Starwaster>
it's like a MIRV except instead of nukes I'm launching Kerbals
<Starwaster>
and they have ZERO control over their fates.... *I* have zero control over their fates once they separate from the stack
<Starwaster>
Up and down they go! Where they land, NOBODY KNOWS!
<wb99999999>
we need a collective noun for kerbals
<SRBuchanan>
A disassembly of Kerbals?
<wb99999999>
beats me
<Starwaster>
SRBuchanan nailed it. A disassembly it is
<SRBuchanan>
Either that or a 'troop' because I'm pretty sure they're a sentient form of fungus.
<SRBuchanan>
Ah crap.
<SRBuchanan>
I just realized Kerbals are basically a less-bloodthirsty version of the the Orks in Warhammer 40K.
<SRBuchanan>
Filthy xenomorph heretics!
<SRBuchanan>
The signs were there all along - green, dumb, capable of reproducing spontaneously and endlessly...
<wb99999999>
yeah I was thinking of that too lol
<SRBuchanan>
Always yammering on about 'MOAR BOOSTERS,' just like the Orks and their precious 'Dakka.'
<wb99999999>
the moment you mention fungus
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<xShadowx>
SRBuchanan: less bloodthirsty? how sure are you on that?
<xShadowx>
they seem to find find in explosions and making other kerbals die
<xShadowx>
find fun*
<SRBuchanan>
Sure, but it's less 'homicidal assault' and more 'reckless endangerment.'
<SRBuchanan>
If Kerbals accidental wiped out an entire planet it would almost definitely be an accident.
<SRBuchanan>
...
<Bornholio>
starwaster Not I said the pig, i luv me tourists traps
<SRBuchanan>
Whups, didn't need that first 'accidentally.'
<SRBuchanan>
Man I've been spoiled by Discord.
<Bornholio>
what i'm not on discord, look at all this spam
<SRBuchanan>
I meant the ability to edit comments.
<xShadowx>
another ksp discord?-.^
<xShadowx>
too many ksp discords
<SRBuchanan>
I have the main KSP Discord listed but muted - I hop into their modding channel occasionally; other than that it's mostly just spam.
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<SRBuchanan>
I hang out on the official RO Discord for the most part.