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<wb99999999>
what is going on...
<ProjectThoth>
It aint' me, it ain't me, I ain't no sysadmin, son.
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<wb99999999>
we have one last Delta IV launch from Vandenberg in 10th Jan.
<wb99999999>
and two more from Cape
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<wb99999999>
after which all non-heavy Delta IV would be retired
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<wb99999999>
omg this is madness
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<lamont_>
wb99999999: ping?
<Bornholio>
pong
<Bornholio>
lamont shuttle 10 is working great of course assuming i don'tset up weird staging
<Bornholio>
Seems like it can handle my early monsters much better
<wb99999999>
hwat?
<wb99999999>
did lamont ping me or was he asking if I've pinged him?
<Bornholio>
you did
<Bornholio>
a while back
<wb99999999>
how?
<wb99999999>
oh I see
<wb99999999>
that's back when you, Starwaster and I were talking about that weird staging thing
<Bornholio>
my all solid rocket to orbit early monster didn't show any dV like you said
<Bornholio>
other than silly stagin setups its been very accurate
<wb99999999>
well...I am particularly unlucky with obscure glitches
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<wb99999999>
I'm one of the few people who had a strange thrust limitation glitch for RF proc solid boosters
<wb99999999>
SW know about this
<wb99999999>
even now I still can't make a proc solid booster that's more than around 3000kN in thrust
<wb99999999>
but he did a contingency fix and it will release with RO 1.3.1
<Bornholio>
what is a proc srb :P they aren't RP-1
<Bornholio>
BTW getting a small ball mill and no-static balls for it so i can do a few solid motors for this summer
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<wb99999999>
nice
<wb99999999>
ULA is retiring non-heavy Delta IVs
<wb99999999>
why must all the cool LVs go first...
<wb99999999>
Atlas V is better, maybe, but not nearly as cool
<Bornholio>
oh well they put themselvs in that place
<ProjectThoth>
Delta IV is expensive af.
<Bornholio>
zuma hopefully 8ish on sunday
<Bornholio>
'Eavy soon after if lucky
<ProjectThoth>
See, it's a shame that Orion is as heavy as it is, because Delta IV Heavy would be a great launcher for that purpose.
<wb99999999>
I am aware of the price problem
<wb99999999>
but why is it so expensive?
<Bornholio>
ULA :P
<ProjectThoth>
Hydrolox.
<wb99999999>
I don't believe simply being hydrolox would cost THAT much more
<ProjectThoth>
I mean, can you name a cheap hydrolox launcher?
<wb99999999>
CZ-5?
<ProjectThoth>
Meybbe?
<wb99999999>
the main engines had some issues though
<wb99999999>
I remember watching the 2nd CZ-5 had one engine shut-down and plunged into the sea
<wb99999999>
fun fact, the tracking graph gave the failure away before the official announcement
<ProjectThoth>
I can dream of an alternate universe where NASA selected a modified CST-100 as Orion, and just tacked on orbital modules to fit the mission's needs, and flew it on Delta IVH.
<wb99999999>
yeah, all-liquid rocket is comforting for crew
<ProjectThoth>
It would have been so much cheaper... maybe not operational until this year, but frankly that's *still* ahead of the current schedule.
<wb99999999>
or maybe in an universe where they did not cancel EVERY shuttle-derived LV until SLS
<wb99999999>
from my perspective that's just a waste of time and money
<ProjectThoth>
A much better SLS would have been a stage-and-a-half system.
<ProjectThoth>
Where the core by itself would be capable of launching ~20 tons or so (enough for our CST-100-ER and some cargo).
<ProjectThoth>
And then it could be upgraded with SRBs and an upper stage in the future for true HLV stuff.
<ProjectThoth>
Shit, you could even bring back the outboard RS-25s on every flight, and cycle end-of-lifespan engines into the sustainer.
<wb99999999>
I like hydrolox booster without solid tacked on
<ProjectThoth>
But that's exactly what SLS should have been... including SRBs for heavy lift missions would have kept OrbATK/Thiokol happy.
<wb99999999>
but without STME I have to do with Saturn INT-17
<wb99999999>
but I guess with the development of Metholox booster engines
<wb99999999>
it is no longer necessary to develope Hydrolox booster engines anymore
<ProjectThoth>
Frankly, if I had to develop a launcher from scratch right now, it'd probably be stage-and-a-half and burn kerosene.
<wb99999999>
I have my faith in metholox
<ProjectThoth>
I'd prefer to use NK-33s.
<ProjectThoth>
Sure, it means that the thing has a launch mass of like 900 metric tons and can kick about 1% of that into space, but at least the engines come back for "free."
<wb99999999>
even Russians gave up on them
<wb99999999>
NK-33s are good, but a little too specialized
<ProjectThoth>
I think they're useful.
<ProjectThoth>
I don't want to hedge my bets on the BE-4.
<ProjectThoth>
My current near-term goal is to bring a 3.5 ton payload 1.5STO into operation to verify aerodynamics and ground handling.
<ProjectThoth>
Which translates into a useful payload of something like 1,000 kg - not too bad.
<wb99999999>
what convinced you to use 1.5STO?
<ProjectThoth>
The work of Gary Hudson and Phil Bono.
<ProjectThoth>
So, like, I think there's a strong future for the SSTO... it's just a matter of perspective, not material.
<ProjectThoth>
Stage-and-a-half is useful because it allows for existing technology to get a meaningful payload into orbit, about 1% of the MTOW - no fancy tricks, no magic engines (like the RS-25), none of that.
<ProjectThoth>
And, most importantly, stage-and-a-half allows you to bring the whole rocket back.
<ProjectThoth>
The half stage might be anywhere from 1/3 to 1/2 the dry mass of the whole vehicle... that's a lot to shave off for landing burns, etc.
<ProjectThoth>
In the vehicle I'm studying, the dry mass without the half stage is about 41 tons, and it translates into about 6.5 tons of landing propellant. Including the skirt would kick that up to about 55 tons, and the landing propellant up to 8 tons.
<ProjectThoth>
And that basically kills the payload to orbit (design is 8.5 tons, useful load is 2 tons).
<ProjectThoth>
Not even sure it could make orbit on top of that.
<ProjectThoth>
Anyway, wb99999999, I favor a radically different approach to SSTOs in general... space should be the destination, not a place to swing by.
<ProjectThoth>
I could envision a flight campaign where a series of these vehicles are launched with small payloads (<1,000 kg), the rest of the useful payload being converted into a tanker for an orbital refueling depot.
<ProjectThoth>
If they go twice a week for a year, there'd be a little bit over 208 tons of propellant hanging out in orbit... enough to sustain 30 "free rides" at maximum payload.
<ProjectThoth>
If, say, solid strap-ons are considered, and the useful payload is increased to about 6 tons, then you could reasonably operate alternating "free rides" and tanker flights from now until oblivion.
<ProjectThoth>
And then eventually you start just selling these things to other people, possibly operating a larger vehicle to specialize in orbital refueling.
<ProjectThoth>
And like any transportation hub, enterprising people are going to be interested in selling services to visitors... like hotels or casinos.
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<BadRocketsCo>
Ohay TheKosmonaut
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<TheKosmonaut>
BadRocketsCo: hi hi
<BadRocketsCo>
TheKosmonaut: how ya doing?
<TheKosmonaut>
Ups and downs!
<TheKosmonaut>
I may be leaving Japan, though it's not been decided yet
<TheKosmonaut>
(the family will go with me, ofc)
<BadRocketsCo>
Oh, I see
<ProjectThoth>
oic
<BadRocketsCo>
Why's that if I may ask?
<TheKosmonaut>
BadRocketsCo: Visa issues
<TheKosmonaut>
It's a super long story. It's not my fault but because someone that was in my company was caught hiding 1k++ USD in income from the government
<TheKosmonaut>
So now the Japanese equivalent of the irs is up my ass
<BadRocketsCo>
Oh, yikes
<TheKosmonaut>
Because of guilt by association
<BadRocketsCo>
:/
<TheKosmonaut>
Lol it's fine. Even if it's rejected, I can try again from abroad in a few months
<BadRocketsCo>
Oh, okay.
<TheKosmonaut>
But nothing is for certain
<TheKosmonaut>
Japanese immigration is tough
<BadRocketsCo>
I hope things will settle soon-ish
<BadRocketsCo>
Where would you go? Back to US?
<TheKosmonaut>
Singapore
<TheKosmonaut>
That's where my immediate family is
<TheKosmonaut>
Cheaper to fly there too
<BadRocketsCo>
Ah, okay. Makes sense.
<BadRocketsCo>
How are the kiddos doing?
<TheKosmonaut>
They're good
<TheKosmonaut>
The youngest one had skin problems but a visit to a dermatologist seems to have straightened it out
<BadRocketsCo>
Ah, that's great!
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<BadRocketsCo>
Wait what
<BadRocketsCo>
RCS doesn't need a pressurised tank to work?
<Rokker>
BadRocketsCo: depends on the fuel
<Rokker>
BadRocketsCo: how are you btw
<Rokker>
Russia hasn't invaded y'all over in Estonia, yet, right?
<BadRocketsCo>
Not yet. Estonia too stronk
<soundnfury>
ah but can Estonia into space?
<BadRocketsCo>
soundnfury: we already kinda did. Estcube 1 :)