<Bornholio>
are you using KcT master or something else
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<Bornholio>
very nice loading 1.3.1 RP-1 yeah
<SRBuchanan>
Looking into MechJeb's attitude control settings, it doesn't appear that it has a way to control attitude during a propulsive maneuver by cutting thrust to a throttled-up thruster.
<SRBuchanan>
Meaning it loses control if you have an unbalanced craft and max out your throttle on RCS alone.
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<awang>
Bornholio: I'm using the development branch of KCT
<soundnfury>
SRBuchanan: to be fair I believe stock SAS does the same thing
<SRBuchanan>
It does.
<SRBuchanan>
MechJeb is still superior to stock SAS in every single way. I just think it'd be a neat feature to add for space probes that perform propulsive maneuvers using their orientation-control thrusters.
<soundnfury>
it'd be nice, yes; I'm not sure it would be easy to implement though :/
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<awang>
Hmmm
<awang>
Does MJ Smart ASS work well for planes?
<Bornholio>
its only half ass
<awang>
Only time I've had to use stock SAS is when flying a X-1 replica at really high altitude, since AtmosphereAutopilot freaked out and sent the plane into a spin
<SRBuchanan>
I've heard other people say it does, but I haven't even attempted aircraft in RO in a hot minute.
<Bornholio>
SmartASS +trim is ok
<Bornholio>
assuming your plane is stabbity
<Bornholio>
a proper stick +trim is much better
<soundnfury>
I wish my computer could run RSSVE... watching one of the NathanKell streams and dang that's beautiful.
<Bornholio>
why no run?
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<soundnfury>
integrated graphics and only 8G of RAM
<SRBuchanan>
Oof.
<Bornholio>
.dirge
<soundnfury>
plain RSS takes it to its limits (can't run firefox at the same time...)
<SRBuchanan>
Hell, I've got an almost brand-new GTX 1060 and it's barely enough for RSSVE to smooth out.
<SRBuchanan>
You can forget about ETO.
<SRBuchanan>
Though that's a RAM limitation.
<SRBuchanan>
Seems 16GB of RAM isn't enough.
<soundnfury>
when I was building my PC, it was before I discovered KSP. Only games I played were things like Nethack and Dwarf Fortress
<soundnfury>
so I built it for compiling and stuff
<soundnfury>
and while I could totally afford to buy a gfx card, I have no idea which one to get
<SRBuchanan>
NVidia's offering a deal right now on Founder's Edition makes of their cards at suggested retail price. They're strictly limiting purchase quantities to try and keep the miners at bay.
<SRBuchanan>
My GTX 1060 3GB is adequate for most stuff at 1080p, including maxing out a fair number of recent games (Dishonored 2 runs on ultra at 75 Hz except in the time-jumping level because it's rendering two scenes at once).
<SRBuchanan>
The 1060 6GB isn't worth the extra cost versus the 3GB (<10% performance increase). I'd say the 'mainstay' for gaming right now is the GTX 1070.
<soundnfury>
what's nvidia's linux drivers situation like nowadays?
<SRBuchanan>
Couldn't tell you.
<SRBuchanan>
I haven't heard anything BAD...
<soundnfury>
are we still in "NVidia, fuck you" territory xD
<soundnfury>
what I can and should do, however, is the 16G RAM upgrade I've been failing to get round to
<soundnfury>
now that NK is back and RO is alive again ;)
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<soundnfury>
o/ spiff
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<SpecimenSpiff>
o/
<SRBuchanan>
\o
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<SpecimenSpiff>
is someone maintaining the fasa craft?
<SpecimenSpiff>
titan has a fuel/engine mismatch
<Bornholio>
noone ever pushed my antenna fix
<Bornholio>
or the texture scrub i did a bit ago
<Bornholio>
feel free to fix it ;p
<SpecimenSpiff>
yeah, firing up the game now to see which engine/fuelc ombo it has so I can research which one is wrong
<SpecimenSpiff>
not sure whether it has the wrong fuel or the wrong engine
<SRBuchanan>
Check the engine GUI. There were six different versions of the LR-87 with three different propellant combinations.
<SpecimenSpiff>
yep, that's the problem. I just need to see which version of the titan it supposedly was, then hit google to find the correct engine/fuel
<SpecimenSpiff>
waiting the half an hour for ksp to start up...
<SpecimenSpiff>
I thought mm was supposed to cache?
<SRBuchanan>
I don't think the LR87-3 (Kerolox) was ever used beyond early testing of Titan.
<Bornholio>
new mm won't cache if any error, and it now does not ignore the soft errors
<soundnfury>
SRBuchanan: Titan I was kerolox. II and later (including GLV) were the hypergolics.
<SRBuchanan>
Most flights occurred with the -5, -7, -9, or -11, which all used Aerozine 50 and NTO.
<SRBuchanan>
There was also the LH2 version which to my knowledge never flew.
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<SpecimenSpiff>
oh, the craft isnt even in the fasa repository, it's in RO
<SRBuchanan>
Hmm. Looking back I wonder why NASA chose having Rocketdyne develop the J-2 from scratch versus just using the already-tested LR87-LH2.
<soundnfury>
hmm, the Spreadsheet of Doom doesn't list KJR. Is that no longer recommended?
<SRBuchanan>
Slightly lower total thrust but at well under half the mass that wouldn't have been an issue.
<Bornholio>
Wasn't on the Original 1.2.2 version is my guess
* soundnfury
assumes that not having it would still be a Bad Idea
<soundnfury>
(space noodles)
<lamont>
noodles == carbs == bad
<lamont>
diabetic rockets
<SpecimenSpiff>
yeah, it had the stock lr91 engine, not the aerozine/nto -7 engine selected, but it had that fuel in the tank
<SpecimenSpiff>
easy fix, just have to get it pushed
<Bornholio>
why worry with RF running
<wb99999999>
I like how their idea about hydrolox engines was different
<Qboid>
wb99999999: Mike` left a message for you in #RO [24.01.2018 11:59:28]: "there's a PR for the RD 108 but it hasn't been merged yet"
<ProjectThoth>
SRBuchanan: polytickles, really.
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<ProjectThoth>
It put jobs in the right place.
<ProjectThoth>
SRBuchanan: As an aside, the LOX/LH2 LR87 is still intact... it's in storage at a (motion picture) prop department in Vegas, iirc.
<SpecimenSpiff>
Lol, I was thinking of doing a russian career next, and hand-waving using the lh2 lr87 via "Boris and Natasha stole the plans", but if it's just there for the purchase...
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<soundnfury>
hmm, looks like the RP-1 loading-screen replacements don't work on 1.3.1?
<SpecimenSpiff>
I haven't gotten that far in my 1.3.1 install to find out
<SpecimenSpiff>
that titan problem is weird, the save file actually specifies the correct variant, but that's not what loads
<SpecimenSpiff>
I wonder if some other mod is causing an issue
<SpecimenSpiff>
might have to try without blue dog installed
<soundnfury>
hmm, I'm getting NRE spam from Kopernicus on the main menu
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<soundnfury>
ah shit I might know why actually...
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<soundnfury>
yeah, I forgot to use my patched RSS Kopernicus cfgs that use PNGs rather than DDSes :/
<SpecimenSpiff>
so, if I fire it up from what I just grabbed from github, going to work or break?
<soundnfury>
uhhhh... I don't know, depends what Everything you grabbed from All of the githubs
<soundnfury>
but you won't hit the problem I just hit, because that was caused by my local weird changes
<SpecimenSpiff>
I grabbed everything ckan had, just grabbed rss from github
<SpecimenSpiff>
dont have RO or RP-1 yet
<soundnfury>
yeah I started from ckan too.
<soundnfury>
AFAICT it's working but so far I've only got as far as the main menu, more testing required ;)
<SpecimenSpiff>
NathanKell was running RP-1 in his stream last night, and said he had a lot of releases coming soon to make it available, but who knows what "soon" means
<soundnfury>
In six months? Oh wait, that's FH :P
<SRBuchanan>
Well, they've static-fired it now at least.
<SpecimenSpiff>
I learned today that for Delta IVH, it was over a year from first time on the pad to launch, and that launch didn't achieve the correct orbit
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Bornholio left a message for you in #RO [24.01.2018 11:33:53]: "I don't think its broken. I didn't confirm any numbers maybe someone felt they were wrong."
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Bornholio left a message for you in #RO [24.01.2018 12:05:52]: "should we use nextRP0 or newCryo realfuels branches? Also KCT should we use RO Fork?"
<Qboid>
NathanKell: awang left a message for you in #RO [24.01.2018 16:02:26]: "Is it worth removing ModuleEngine*-related things from configs, since engine stats are taken care of by engineType?"
<Qboid>
NathanKell: awang left a message for you in #RO [24.01.2018 12:55:15]: "Glad to hear RO is working for you!"
<soundnfury>
the Kellening! o/
<NathanKell>
Mike`: You around? Sounds like we should chat :D
<SpecimenSpiff>
so SpaceX is doing well so far in comparison
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: TACLS is fine, I updated the GC's note about it. For 1.3 use RF master and the latest KCT development build from the build server (or my dropbox link--that's 1.3 now)
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah. At this point we're far enough along to say with reasonable confidence that Falcon Heavy is going to work eventually. Just takes a bit.
<NathanKell>
awang: It's worth removing in most cases, yes, IIRC.
<SpecimenSpiff>
was there an updated guide for rssve on 1.3.1 somehwere?
<NathanKell>
There's a branch for it on its repo
<NathanKell>
and the RSSVE OP has a table to say what version of waht to use
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: is 1.3.0.38 the wrong KCT to be using, then?
<NathanKell>
depends where you got it
<soundnfury>
'cos that's what the spreadsheet said to use for ksp 1.3.1
<NathanKell>
Magico uploaded the wrong build to github, he says
<NathanKell>
so it doesn't have our stuff
<soundnfury>
ah.
<NathanKell>
he said the build server's copy should be fine
<NathanKell>
but meanwhile I had built locally
<soundnfury>
'k
<NathanKell>
and that's what the dropbox link points to
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<soundnfury>
which dropbox link?
<NathanKell>
the one in the "how do I RP-1" wiki page
<NathanKell>
Relays (RT now supports turning relays off for SPUs.)
<NathanKell>
launch cost tuning
<NathanKell>
launch cost multiplier for all pods/crewed stuff other than mk1 pod (which was done)
<blowfish>
there's an RP-1 now?
<NathanKell>
I *think* that's all we need
<blowfish>
(other than Kerosene) ;)
<NathanKell>
It's what we're calling the giant, save-breaking rework of RP-0
<blowfish>
ahh nice
<SpecimenSpiff>
NathanKell, any idea what would cause this problem I'm having? I try and fire up the fasa save titan gemini from the ro repository, and it has the wrong 2nd stage engine config, the -3 instead of the -7. So I went to fix the save file and upload it... and the save file says -7. So what would cause it to load as -3?
<NathanKell>
Are you in sandbox?
<soundnfury>
soooo... is this the same old Issue 749 link?
<NathanKell>
or career?
<SpecimenSpiff>
and maybe someone can fire up sandbox and see if they get the same issue?
<SpecimenSpiff>
snadbox
<NathanKell>
soundnfury yeah
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: Check the syntax of the config you're specifying
<soundnfury>
ty
<NathanKell>
it might be wrong
<NathanKell>
if RF can't find a config, it defaults to the first one
<SpecimenSpiff>
it looks good, I adjusted the config in the vab, exported it to the reporistory, and it said no change, so I brought up that line in the editor and it was correct
<SpecimenSpiff>
but If I load the save file, save it wihtout making any changes, THEN it says -3
<NathanKell>
That's...odd.
<NathanKell>
So yeah, for some reason RF thinks the config it's loading doesn't exist
<SpecimenSpiff>
Im thinking it might be because I have bluedog also, which has that same engine
<SpecimenSpiff>
maybe bluedog and fasa are conflicting on that engine
<NathanKell>
That shouldn't make a difference.
<NathanKell>
But I know the FASA LR91 has had issues in the past with configs
<blowfish>
Is there an LR-91 that doesn't have config issues?
<SpecimenSpiff>
those are the only two lr-91s I know about
<NathanKell>
blowfish: Someone needs to collar Saab :D
<SpecimenSpiff>
which has always surprised me since all the other engines are in like every mod pack ever
<blowfish>
the Saab one definitely had issues :D
<NathanKell>
but purty
<NathanKell>
!tell Mike` the issue with SSTU is that how tank sizing was done changed between KSP 1.2 and KSP 1.3 versions of SSTU, and in 1.2 it was not so good for tooling, so I didn't bother (since we thought we were going to 1.3 soon). Now that it's all 1.3, yes, we need to bite that bullet, but tooling support should be fairly simple. The one issue is that *if* it's like 1.2, there are predefined lengths
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<NathanKell>
that are strings, rather than just a number we can read, and then *that* length is multiplied by some scaling factor.
<NathanKell>
!tell Mike` so it's not as straightforward as the other tooling binders, but still pretty simple.
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury>
btw NathanKell, I'm only setting up 1.3.1 so I can make sure that my build of RIS works. So you'd better want to play a RIS game soon ;)
<SpecimenSpiff>
among my many many "oh that would be a cool mod to dev" is a single player version of RIS, where the milestones are set either on reality, or pick a previous game someone did
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: I'm for sure in :)
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: Indeed!
<NathanKell>
One might even call it Balanced Automated RIS!
* NathanKell
ducks
<soundnfury>
SpecimenSpiff: well, feel free to stea^H^H^H^Hadapt ideas and code from RIS, it's permissively licensed :)
<SpecimenSpiff>
I have a long, long list of ideas, and most of them Im deliberately staying away from, since I have no desire to actively support anything
<SpecimenSpiff>
I do want to recompile rangesafety for 1.3.1 though, and maybe finish off its feature list
<soundnfury>
SpecimenSpiff: Be the change you want to see in RO ;)
<Pap>
o/ nerds
<soundnfury>
\o Parp
<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: What if you used a RNG for the single player version of RiS that increased odds of success for the "competition" as you progress closer to real life deadliens?
<soundnfury>
Trouble with using real life deadlines is that we never quite get the balance just right in RP-0
<NathanKell>
heya Pap!
<Pap>
NathanKell: SSTU is going to be a big project to jump on, and it would appear that things are on the verge of completely changing again for the next major release
<SpecimenSpiff>
The real fun would be adding in admin strategies "steal plans from my competitors" vs "sabotage them" vs "dont be evil"
<NathanKell>
Pap: Oh for crying out loud
<Pap>
ShadowMage does not play well with others
<NathanKell>
heh
<SpecimenSpiff>
hm, my 1.3.1 install gets to the point of playing music, but then just spins there with no menu
<Pap>
I don't know exactly what is changing, but it appears that it is going to be a lot of stuff with the different parts that can attach to the tanks, which will affect all tooling values
<soundnfury>
Sp: anything in the log?
<NathanKell>
hokay
<soundnfury>
conveniently, I don't use SSTU, so cannot into care
<Pap>
soundnfury: Very true, we are closer, but still far away
<SpecimenSpiff>
wow all the kopernicus nre in the log...
<Pap>
I love the SSTU engines, the Apollo parts and the Orion parts, that is why I used it mainly, maybe we don't support the tanks?
<soundnfury>
SpecimenSpiff: huh, that sounds a lot like the error I had, but that was because I had mismatched local changes. github should be fine
<Pap>
I don't know what the best idea is, the tanks look so beautiful in game compared to Proc
<SpecimenSpiff>
I got kopernicus from ckan, rss from github master branch, and its just spamming nre in the log forever
<SpecimenSpiff>
oh wait, I didnt include rss textures, I imagin thats bad
<Pap>
SpecimenSpiff: Not optional
<NathanKell>
Pap: We kidnap Saab and force him to finish his equivalent tank mod
<Pap>
Ah yes
<SpecimenSpiff>
I just use sstu for the clusters, gorgeous engine mounts, and I think it was a good source for a few engines
<SpecimenSpiff>
but I dont use the tanks, etc
<SRBuchanan>
I like SSTU more for its tanks than for its engines.
<SRBuchanan>
Though I do like its engines. They're a bit stockalike texture-wise but the models are fairly accurate to the real thing.
<Qboid>
[#812] title: RP-1 todos for release | I'm holding off actually releasing the rest of the constellation since RP-1's changes are so far-reaching they may require changes in other mods. But AFAIK the remaining work is pretty much all RP-1, or at least closely tied to it.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/812
<SRBuchanan>
I'm particularly fond of the way it has the RL10 split up into several different parts with the appropriate models for each subtype.
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<SRBuchanan>
So is SSTU working in non-RP-1 1.3.1 RO?
<SpecimenSpiff>
still massive nre spam from kopernicus
<NathanKell>
SRBuchanan I don't know
<NathanKell>
Hopefully at least the engines are
<NathanKell>
Pap, soundnfury, et al: I need to do #1 on that list myself, and #3. But can you (or can you find people) to do #2 and #4?
<NathanKell>
awang you too if you're awake ^
<SRBuchanan>
The engines normally get grabbed in, yeah. Last I checked the tanks straight-up froze all input in the VAB.
<ProjectThoth>
Just an idle thought about space suits... would it be possible to have a mechanical counterpressure suit inside of a partial-atmospheric suit, in order to eliminate prebreathe?
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: I may have a crack at #4 if I have time
<NathanKell>
<3
<NathanKell>
For now we might even just be able to use that number for most pods
<NathanKell>
it's better than now at any rate
<SRBuchanan>
ProjectThoth: That's an ongoing avenue of research.
<SRBuchanan>
If you wear them too long you get bruises on the insides of all your joints, because the mechanical pressure is weakest there.
<ProjectThoth>
I figured that an individual in a 10 psi-level MC suit, inside a 5 psi-level atmospheric suit, would only have a delta-p of like 5 psi, but still experience it as sea-level pressure.
<SRBuchanan>
The best solution would probably be to prebreathe, have a pure oxygen supply for breathing at a fifth of an atmosphere, and establish mechanical pressure at a fifth of an atmosphere equivalent.
<SRBuchanan>
That does come up against another big issue however, which is cooling.
<ProjectThoth>
Though I figure that the 5 psig suit would help with the downsides of regular MC suits.
<ProjectThoth>
Cooling, as you mentioned, the bruising issue, etc.
<SRBuchanan>
With a pressurized suit you can vent spent air into vacuum to release heat. You lose that option with a mechanical suit.
<SRBuchanan>
Long-term I've no doubt we'll work the kinks out with mechanically-restricted suits because they do offer a lot more flexibility.
<SRBuchanan>
That, or we'll work out oxygenated liquids and negate the need for hard pressure, but that seems like a pretty distant-future trick.
<SRBuchanan>
You'd still probably need at least a bit of pressure over the head to protect the squishy bits.
<SRBuchanan>
As well as insulation and thermal control of course.
<ProjectThoth>
SRBuchanan: Oh, yeah, the double-suit solution wouldn't exactly be pretty (though I guess you could solve some of that with an integrated neck dam that interfaces with the outer suit).
<SRBuchanan>
Short-term I think well-fitted pressure suits seem like the best choice. The models we have now are pretty cumbersome.
<soundnfury>
ok, my install appears to work (just flew tiny SR)
<SpecimenSpiff>
hm, started over, clean 1.3.1 install, kopernicus from ckan, rss and textures from github, still hangs on nre spam
<SRBuchanan>
Making them work better involves a *lot* of tailoring to the user. 3D-printed rigid plastic over the limbs with felxible bellows-style joints to keep the pressure constant seems like a good compromise.
<ProjectThoth>
I like rigid suits.
<soundnfury>
now to test RIS
<NathanKell>
\o/
<SpecimenSpiff>
any advice on what I need to fix to get this working?
<SRBuchanan>
Isn't there a separate patch for RSS for 1.3.x?
<SpecimenSpiff>
not that I see in github
<SpecimenSpiff>
but that would explain it
<SpecimenSpiff>
maybe Im looking at the wrong repo?
<SpecimenSpiff>
but its got commits from nk just 3 days ago...
<NathanKell>
RSS repo is current AFAIK
<SRBuchanan>
Shit I'm up too late again.
<SRBuchanan>
Good night folks. Happy patching.
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<SpecimenSpiff>
so I have current rss, current kopernicus, rss textures havent changed in ages so those are current, module manager 3.0.1.. is something missing?
<soundnfury>
PSA, don't forget to make a separate install for RIS, because it patches contract payouts to be smaller.
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* soundnfury
|zzz
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<lamont>
i seem to have slightly broken gravity
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<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Awesome! :)
<NathanKell>
(was nomzing, sorry)
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<Mike`>
!tell NathanK* I'm from Europe so sadly usually asleep when you're around. :) I guess the binder isn't that hard, i was a bit worrying regarding tank levels and the amount of SSTU tanks, see https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/768
<Qboid>
Mike`: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Mike`: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [25.01.2018 04:16:29]: "the issue with SSTU is that how tank sizing was done changed between KSP 1.2 and KSP 1.3 versions of SSTU, and in 1.2 it was not so good for tooling, so I didn't bother (since we thought we were going to 1.3 soon). Now that it's all 1.3, yes, we need to bite that bullet, but tooling support should be fairly simple. The one issue
<Qboid>
is that *if* it's like 1.2, there are predefined lengths"
<Qboid>
Mike`: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [25.01.2018 04:16:51]: "so it's not as straightforward as the other tooling binders, but still pretty simple."
<Qboid>
[#768] title: SSTU modular tanks don't require tooling | Not sure if this is known yet or not. I couldn't find anything regarding it searching through the issues. | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/768
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<BadRocketsCo>
Howdu
<BadRocketsCo>
Howdy*
<probus_>
Hey again o/
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<BadRocketsCo>
How're things?
<Probus>
Good, good. Did you see the Falcon Heavy static fire?
<Probus>
Can't wait for the launch. I think it will be the most exciting launch since the Saturn V with all 3 stages landing... Hopefully
<Mike`>
hey
<Probus>
o/
<Mike`>
BadRocketsCo, yep, those tanks look nice, that's why i hope we somehow can support sstu tanks in rp-0/1 with regards to tooling etc
<BadRocketsCo>
That would be nice indeed
<BadRocketsCo>
AIES has some nice tanks aswell
<Probus>
That is a sweet mod.
<BadRocketsCo>
Hold up, changing to wifi
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<BadRocketsCo>
Back
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<awang>
!tell NathanKell* Should a separate branch be created for removing ModuleEngine*-related things, or should that be done as configs are edited for other things? And if the latter, perhaps we should put a notice somewhere to let contributers know that ModuleEngines*-related things should be removed?
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang>
!tell* NathanKell I may be able to handle #2 on your RP-1 todos, if it involves just MM patches. I'm thinking of doing something similar to what I have planned for science cores -- disable relay functionality for things by default, enable for select antennae? Or something along those lines?
<awang>
!tell NathanKell* I'll probably need to get those KRASH patches merged, too
<Qboid>
awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Maxsimal>
!tell soundnfury I'm looking forward to RIS too :) My off time from KSP has made me rusty at it though.
<Qboid>
Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury>
:)
<Qboid>
soundnfury: Maxsimal left a message for you in #RO [25.01.2018 15:45:45]: "I'm looking forward to RIS too :) My off time from KSP has made me rusty at it though."
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<Vader111>
is anyone able to guide me on the path of enlightenment on how to use srbs in PEG
<Maxsimal>
Wonder if it's too soon to get my RP-1 install up to 1.3.1 or not.
<Vader111>
cannot for the love of god get peg to work with srbs
<awang>
Vader111: You're on the most recent PEG release?
<Vader111>
latest mechjeb dev release
<Vader111>
on 1,3.1
<awang>
lamont's branch?
<awang>
s/branch/fork
<Qboid>
awang meant to say: lamont's fork?
<Vader111>
i'm basically getting nothing but unguided gravity turns
<awang>
IIRC someone else here was having issues with MJ staging SRBs weirdly
<Vader111>
im not sure it works on 1.3.1
<awang>
Let me see if I can find it in logs
<awang>
It should work in principle, since I've been running MJ PEG on 1.3.1 for a few months now
<awang>
I haven't been using SRBs though except as kick motors
<Vader111>
the thing is that mechjeb dev has all of lamont latest work in it
<Vader111>
or not?
<Mike`>
the atlas/centaur PEG seems to have trouble with srb's that separate during a part of the core stage, i've noticed that aswell
<Vader111>
yeah same
<awang>
No, MJ dev doesn't have all of lamont's latest work
<awang>
Or at least not according to git log --graph
<Mike`>
not sure how stable the latest lamot branch is, i think he mentioned something about "buggy" recently, not sure though. :)
<Mike`>
and ergh, bluedog's LR 101 vernier is broken with FAR :(
<Vader111>
can you direct me to a 1.3.1 compatible build awang
<Mike`>
seems to have a gigantic drag model
<awang>
Mike`: Turn on the debug voxels in the editor
<awang>
Vader111: Hold on a bit
<awang>
btw, it was either wb99999999 or Bornholio that was also seeing staging weirdness with SRBs, I think
<Mike`>
I've also noticed staging weirdness, but even when staging manually, peg just stops running when the SRBs separate
<Mike`>
egh, display debug voxels does nothing when the LR 101 is attached, works fine without it
<Starwaster>
why is it returning negative altitudes that should be above sea level?
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<Maxsimal>
Mike` Should probably ask NK that. Probably because he didn't think those mods should know about/pay attention to RO? Or because he wanted to make the RL-10 plume from one mod look the same as the RL-10 plume from another mod.
<Mike`>
soundnfury, would RIS work for an existing (early) career, or do you have to start a new one? in my case, we have achieved orbit, but nothing moonrelated yet.
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<Starwaster>
mike it's the responsibility of RO's authors and caretakers to handle configs like that, not the responsibility of the part authors whose parts we are modding for RO
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<Starwaster>
It's better to keep those configs under one roof anyway
<Mike`>
Starwaster, in case the part author already has a (suboptimal) realplume config, he might be happy about an improved one
<Mike`>
even if he doesn't have one yet, he might still be happy about one
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<Starwaster>
so he can go ahead and grab those for himself. Pretty sure RO's license is permissive enough
<Mike`>
that's true, i guess.
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<lamont>
awang: my rework of 10 is still pretty critically broken
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<Starwaster>
lamont
<Starwaster>
PEG just put me into an 'orbit' at an altitude of approx 106 km
<Starwaster>
of course I prob wont stay here long but it did accomplish the task
<lamont>
yeah that’s probably terminal guidance
<Probus>
What is this PEG you speak of?
<Starwaster>
that wasn't my real goal I just wanted a suborbital that took me to 106 so I could do aheat shield test but I didnt watch my speed and I violated the parameters of the test so I decided to see what would happen if I just leti t keep going
<Starwaster>
probus: powered explicit guidance
<lamont>
the way that it works in 10 is that it computes vgo and tgo and counts down tgo blindly to zero so if anything is off in the stage stats then it fails
<Starwaster>
it's how you get to orbit on one burn
<Starwaster>
instead of lobbing up into the sky and then circularizing
<Starwaster>
which is REALLY inefficient in RO as you no doubt know
<Probus>
Ah. I've done a script in kOS for that.
<Starwaster>
Saturn V had something like that called iterative guidance mode
<Starwaster>
PEG is what the shuttle used
<Probus>
A glorified PID loop I suppose.
<lamont>
oh you mean to get to 106 and it worked
<Probus>
It took me forever to get it right.
<lamont>
its a P loop with an integrator that predicts future state, so its probably not terribly useful to consider it a pid loop
<Probus>
I had to break my ascent into 4 stages if I remember correctly.
<Probus>
As I recall, getting that ascent right took a lot of trial and error.
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<BadRocketsCo>
Howdy
<BadRocketsCo>
I wondered, what's up with CaveaB? I couldn't find any reference to it on the interwebs?
<BadRocketsCo>
Just an interesting monoprop that I am yet to hear of
<awang>
lamont: Critically broken? Really?
<awang>
Guess I haven't been tossing different enough designs at it
<lamont>
yeah i went a bit nuts and started playing with PEG in stock and it failed badly on a ton of my designs
<awang>
Ah
<awang>
I'd imagine PEG isn't really designed for the tiny solar system of stock though?
<awang>
I thought single burns to orbit were relatively rare in stock
<BadRocketsCo>
Theysen: oh, thanks!
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<Theysen>
awang, only manageable with throttling most of the time.. since low twr in stock results in falling back or having your boost stage boost so far you coast anyways.. so ya
<Starwaster>
When I click 'Fly' on my rover sitting on the runway at the Space Center... I don't mean LITERALLY for it to fly, Kerbal Space Program!!! Stop making my rover leap into the air!
<Starwaster>
omg I accidentally patched my ullage motors to have gimbals...
<lamont>
awang: you can do it though
<lamont>
the bigger problem is that kerbin is stupidly small and violates PEGs small angle approximation
<lamont>
i’ve also added manual entry of a coast period
<lamont>
(coast has to go between kerbal stages, though, it can’t turn off the engine after X seconds and coast Y seconds)
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<awang>
lamont: Small angle approximation?
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<lamont>
peg makes small angle approximations and uses linearized gravity with a hacky fix for first-order gravity curvature effects bolted on
<lamont>
kerbin gives it migraines
<lamont>
it is designed for a 6300 km ball with 1g not a 600km ball with 1g
<awang>
lamont: Just making sure I understand this right
<awang>
small angle approximations aren't valid for Kerbin because the surface curves too much?
<awang>
And linearized gravity is a uniform gravity field?
<awang>
The kind taught in physics 101 where ballistic trajectories are parabolas?
<lamont>
yeah too much true anomaly over the course of a burn
<Mike`>
thanks for the link, Probus
<lamont>
and yeah it starts with flat earth which is easy and then adds hacks on top of that to make it a bit more accurate for actual curved space, but its all first-order
<Probus>
You bet Mike`
<lamont>
and linearized gravity does drop off with heigh, but drops off linearly, not 1/r^2
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<awang>
lamont: I didn't know PEG used such simple abstractions
<awang>
Although I guess it makes sense given the computing power at the time...