<wb99999999>
have a smarter ascent profile instead
<petti>
smarter how?
<wb99999999>
like employ a zero-AOA phase when you're around Max Q
<petti>
It's hard to have a good profile with a craft that's aerodynamically unstable
<wb99999999>
yes, but most engines in RO have HUGE gimbal range
<petti>
that means nothing when you flip out of control faster than you can blink
<stewartx>
yeah
<wb99999999>
strange
<petti>
going straight up can be stable but it's not a way to get to orbit
<stewartx>
it goes uncontrollable in the vertical ascent so
<stewartx>
rip
<wb99999999>
...that's...surprising
<petti>
how so?
<wb99999999>
has been a while since I see a rocket that loses control during vertical ascent
<petti>
I don't think it's suprising at all that an aerodynamically unstable object spins :)
<Bornholio>
engines have no gimbal?
<wb99999999>
I usually get an exploding rocket around max Q
<petti>
you would need lightning fast controllers to make up for the instability, the kind that jet fighters employ IRL
<stewartx>
they have gimbal
<petti>
exploding means you have too much TWR and you go too fast too early
<stewartx>
they are h-1s
<wb99999999>
nah, it's because the pressure difference is too large and the thing flips around and disassemble itself
<wb99999999>
but this is often solved with just having zero AOA during that time
<petti>
flipping again is caused by instability
<petti>
if your rocket is inherently stable it cannot flip even if you tried
<wb99999999>
I mean...you are right
<petti>
not having the ability to control the ascent is very demanding on your initial turn
<wb99999999>
but a lot of real life rockets are at least a little unstable
<wb99999999>
because they usually have no fin, and have a big ass fairing on top
<petti>
It's doable of course but if you end up with the wrong ascent angle you cannot fix that and go way off course pointing prograde and almost pooping your pants
<petti>
well IRL rockets have control systems which steer a thousand times a second I'm sure
<wb99999999>
not really
<wb99999999>
you can send out signals a thousand times a second yes
<wb99999999>
but engine gimbals have a finite speed
<petti>
in KSP a small drift resulting in a slight oversteer just tends to oscillate out of proportions, especially when the ships are a bit spaghetti
<wb99999999>
and very often boosted rocket go way too fast initially by KSP standard
<wb99999999>
like Atlas V 551
<petti>
and you tend to not have perfect launch profiles so you need to overcompensate along the way to get where you want, real rockets get it right much more accurately
<petti>
It's nicer to have reliable stable flyable rockets than really demanding ones, usually
<petti>
of course pointing prograde all the way is very efficient if you can hit the sweet spot
<stewartx>
isn't that like a perfect gravity turn?
<wb99999999>
okay stewartx can I have your craft file?
<wb99999999>
okay, there's 2 things you need to do
<wb99999999>
first, take out those fins, you really don't need them
<wb99999999>
second, re-align your booster
<stewartx>
yeah so i've been reading
<stewartx>
re-align?
<wb99999999>
yes
<wb99999999>
they're not aligned
<wb99999999>
if you look top-down, you can see it
<wb99999999>
and also turn corrective steering on
<wb99999999>
PEGAS needed it
<stewartx>
still nothing :-(
<wb99999999>
hwat?
<wb99999999>
but...but...
<stewartx>
idk still uncontrollable
ProjectThoth has quit [Ping timeout: 194 seconds]
<wb99999999>
another thing then...
<wb99999999>
do you mean to pitch side way?
<stewartx>
should without the boosters
<stewartx>
wdym?
<stewartx>
it was even worse without the fins btw
<wb99999999>
like, you know, usually rocket pitches along the wide side
<stewartx>
oh yeah
<stewartx>
it doens't even get to the pitch program tho
<wb99999999>
and can you control it manually?
<stewartx>
i might abandon this design
<wb99999999>
oh and maybe check your fuel tank
<wb99999999>
it looks a bit like an imbalance of fuel in the boosters
<stewartx>
ok
<wb99999999>
check if your fuel duct is connected
<stewartx>
i'm gonna ditch the boosters and just see if i can launch the core
<wb99999999>
go ahead
<Bornholio>
what fairing is that? so far nothing you have is too weird, but it seems like the fairing is not eliminating the drag from the contents, otherwise your CoL should be lower
<wb99999999>
Born I found out that I have became very reliant on a zero-AOA phase when I don't use PEGAS
<wb99999999>
because I build those rocket with long fat fairing and bad balance (hydrolox upper)
<Bornholio>
yeah i make sloppy rockets also, but nothin i see here is something that sticks out as not flyable.
<Bornholio>
maybe just a tad bit of a low CoM
<wb99999999>
neither do I
<wb99999999>
I got his craft file and flown it myself
<wb99999999>
I think even if the fairing is defunct it sill should't be this bad
<wb99999999>
I read about it in a children's magazine back when I didn't even speak English and have no idea about videogams
<wb99999999>
like, when I was 6 or something
<wb99999999>
and the damn thing is still on the ground
<wb99999999>
dozens of years later
<wb99999999>
for a while I thought it definitely is up there doing science because the last time I saw it was so long ago
<wb99999999>
but then 10 years later I started getting into aerospace stuff and woops
<wb99999999>
it still hasn't been launched
<wb99999999>
I am so very disappointed about it T_T
<Bornholio>
Yes thats about right
<Bornholio>
every 3rd president ramps it up, then one stagnates it and then big cuts, rinse and repeat
<wb99999999>
well at least we now have a very beautiful animation of how it would looks like when they launch it
<stewartx>
it's a mod for ksp
<stewartx>
too
<wb99999999>
much, much better than what we have in the 200s
<wb99999999>
2000s*
<Bornholio>
They really need to start including a little fly along sat that films selfies of these things
<wb99999999>
you know what's ironic about me reading about JWST 10+ years ago?
<stewartx>
i'm not sure that's compatible with orbital mechanics.
<wb99999999>
on the same magazine I learned about the Space Shuttle for the first time
<wb99999999>
which, as we all know, it's no more
<Bornholio>
I watched STS-1 land at edwards...
<wb99999999>
wow
<Bornholio>
still waiting for those 25 launches a year
<wb99999999>
I have this strange experience of growing up reading about Apollo and Shuttle, but then grown up to see...what? SpaceX landing a booster on the pad?
<wb99999999>
because I was so young back then I have no idea about the timeline, so in my head the moon landing just happened a few years ago
<Bornholio>
for me it was Gene Cernan walked on the Moon when i was an infant
<Bornholio>
pretty sad state. Hope to see it rectified in the next couple years
<wb99999999>
I think people who wrote those articles I read didn't even know the recession of space exploration would last so long
<wb99999999>
it's the early 2000s you know
<Bornholio>
My angry opinion puts that one squarely on the ULA here in the US. Nasa paid for a lot of engine development and they squandered it until the only option was russian engines .sigh
<wb99999999>
I remember a blog post about the F-1B booster engine mentioning that NASA teams had to relearn how to liquid engine by studying museum piece F-1s...
<wb99999999>
it's almost humiliating
<Rokker>
psh
<Rokker>
wb99999999: every time they update the B-52 they have to call up old engineers to make sure they don't fuck it up
<Bornholio>
happy new years to ya Rokker
<Rokker>
Bornholio: and to you
<wb99999999>
nice seeing you
<Bornholio>
Rokker get to do a EC-135 resoration tour
<Rokker>
wb99999999: you would be surprised how many documents for aircraft have been lost
<Rokker>
you have to be a magician to work at the NMUSAF restoration hangar
<wb99999999>
still, imagine telling someone "we landed on the moon" NASA needs to go through liquid rocket 101
<Rokker>
wb99999999: but that's not what happened
<wb99999999>
I mean I am exaggerating
<Rokker>
relearning the basics isn't the same as learning how the engine worked
<wb99999999>
you're right
<wb99999999>
well I am still a little fuzzy about how ULA ended up using RD-180
TM1978m has joined #RO
<Rokker>
wb99999999: cheap Russian labor
<Bornholio>
hmm Musky must be using slave labor also
<Rokker>
Bornholio: basically
<wb99999999>
so Bornholio can you tell me more about the ULA screw up you mentioned?
<stratochief>
Ole' Musky
<Bornholio>
The companies that make up the ULA have many billions of dollars of engine development under there belt, yet they have to go buy 60's engines from russia?
<Bornholio>
their
<UmbralRaptor>
*80s engines
<Bornholio>
now that would be even sadder :P
<UmbralRaptor>
You've heard the story of when the west learned about the NK-33, right?
<Bornholio>
you mean those AJ26's :)
<UmbralRaptor>
uh
<wb99999999>
okay, I have to correct myself
<wb99999999>
a sleek fairing do help with stability
<Bornholio>
and have a good night i'm off to bang pans at the bad spirits, or drink bad spirits out of a pan :)
<wb99999999>
good night
Raidernick has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Raidernick has joined #RO
stewartx_ has joined #RO
stewartx_ has quit [Client Quit]
<stewartx>
is the integrated powerhead demonstrator in RO?
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Oneiros has joined #RO
Bornholio has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 194 seconds]
Raidernick has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Raidernick has joined #RO
<xShadowx>
lol......just saw a commercial for the airforce, and they were using nasa's rockets as part of what they do, which is funny since most of the peeps that went to space were navy not airforce :P
<wb99999999>
you sure about that's NASA's rocket?
<wb99999999>
NASA doesn't operate many launch vehicle nowadays
awang has joined #RO
Wetmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 194 seconds]
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Ezko_ has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
awang has joined #RO
Senshi has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
awang has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 207 seconds]
BadRocketsCo has joined #RO
<BadRocketsCo>
Greetings!
Hypergolic_Skunk has joined #RO
BadInternetCo has joined #RO
BadInternetCo has quit [Client Quit]
BadRocketsCo has quit [Ping timeout: 194 seconds]
awang has joined #RO
<Oneiros>
we need more perturbations in our orbits
<Oneiros>
"..This discovery observed the consistent 1:1 correlation between very large positive gravity anomalies and depressed circular basins on the Moon."
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
Mike_ has joined #RO
awang has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Vader111 has quit [Quit: Leaving]
wb99999999 has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
awang has joined #RO
stewartx has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 207 seconds]
ProjectThoth has joined #RO
awang has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Oneiros has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
Daz has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Daz has joined #RO
awang has joined #RO
Oneiros has joined #RO
ProjectThoth has quit [Quit: +++out of cheese error+++]
Starwaster has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
probus_ is now known as Probus
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
Bornholio has joined #RO
awang has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
<Probus>
Can you make R-7 boosters from procedural tanks?
<Bornholio>
its a bit annoying but yes, NK has a good video doing one
<Probus>
Do you remember Bornholio, if the booster is made from a single tank or a few tanks?
<Bornholio>
my memory is several, the tip is a seperate nose peice, the body a cone , then a cylinder base, that is probably the attachment point for the decoupler, then some boat tail and the engine
<Bornholio>
shouldn't be nearly as bad as a peice built atlas half stage :P
<Probus>
Yeah, that would be a bear.
Starwaster has joined #RO
Ezko_ has joined #RO
Wetmelon has joined #RO
Oneiros has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
lamont_ has quit [Quit: lamont_]
stewartx has joined #RO
lamont_ has joined #RO
lamont_ has quit [Quit: lamont_]
<stewartx>
o7
<Bornholio>
o7 is very unstable :)
<soundnfury>
allotropes ftw
<soundnfury>
isn't there like an O₈ or something?
<soundnfury>
under some ridiculous conditions like several GPa perhaps?
<Bornholio>
thats a solid form
<Bornholio>
not sure what 07 is
<soundnfury>
maybe he meant oo7?
<Bornholio>
or he placed his hand above brow and peered in to see whom was active
<soundnfury>
is the sun up where he is? what's his timezone?
<soundnfury>
it's dark here so that wouldn't be necessary
<Bornholio>
its very white and sunny here
<Bornholio>
also -17C so brrrrr
<Bornholio>
sadly no metastable oxygens
* stewartx
stares blankly
<soundnfury>
... happy new year stewartx.
<stewartx>
ty
<stewartx>
why does the saturn aps use so much helium to propellant 90%?
<soundnfury>
don't recall it using helium at all. but is that a volume ratio or a mass ratio you're looking at?
<soundnfury>
helium is pretty low density, gases all get bit numbers ;)
<soundnfury>
*big
<Bornholio>
probably for high chamber pressure and fast fuel delivery, unless youre noting a problem, the APS could have very poorly even operated on just spray if it failed to ignite
<stewartx>
just looking in RO
<Bornholio>
there needs to be a ground station RT part so i can put up stations
<Bornholio>
pap no recover from orbit until tech? just made a cheaty high drag recovery pod "FOR SCIENCE" but i have no contracts showing yet.
<stewartx>
umm
<stewartx>
how can i see what's chewing power
<Bornholio>
its almost always the controls, pods eat power fast also
<stewartx>
is there a way to calculate power usage in the vab
<Bornholio>
just add up consumers ElectricCharge system - 1EC/s = 1kW, 1EC = 1kJ.
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: yeah that contract depends on having a HS part unlocked
<Bornholio>
thanks, figured i'm too early, but wanted that returnable science :)
<Bornholio>
one of the nose cones needs some reduced temp limits i'd guess since it made a good enough heat shield to get a sounding rocket core and a bit of support back to earth
<Pap>
Yeah bornholio, tried to stop you and your chesty exploits. :)
<Pap>
Happy New Year everyone!
<Bornholio>
Pappy new year to yall to
<soundnfury>
HNY Pap
Senshi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<stewartx>
and does mechjeb fly it Bornholio
<Bornholio>
Shuttle PEG10 fly's it straight to tolar orbit 280x306km
<Bornholio>
polar
<stewartx>
can i have the craft file
<stewartx>
any exotic mods?
<Bornholio>
no very few
<Bornholio>
are you on DEV?
<stewartx>
dev of?
<Bornholio>
or master/ckan
<stewartx>
ckan
<Bornholio>
ah, yeah bad juju then
<stewartx>
ah
<Bornholio>
i'll post it anyways
<stewartx>
dev of RO?
<Bornholio>
ro and RP-0
<stewartx>
mmm okay
<stewartx>
never played iwth RP-0
<Bornholio>
very awesome changes, just needs more testing and a NK to push it :P
<stewartx>
well
<stewartx>
if peg10 can help me with my orbiting i might be able to check it out
<stewartx>
always struggled with it whenever i used to play RO
<Bornholio>
can you get to orbit manually?
<stewartx>
not reliably
<Bornholio>
what style of rocket are you using? One thing PEG can't handle well is anything that needs the coast phase
<stewartx>
nope
<stewartx>
wouldn't standard mechjeb be able to handle that?
<Bornholio>
not well
<stewartx>
i've been having stability/controll issues
<stewartx>
oh what's the problem there?
<Bornholio>
assuming you are on 1.2.2 KSP
<stewartx>
yes
<Bornholio>
Most of the time i go to orbit on smartA.S.S.
<Bornholio>
Start in surface mode UP, the use the pitch heading settings to push the nose over keep the pitch moving down until i get close to my target AP, then use the pitch control to keep the climb rate low and correct for changing TWR's as it stages
<stewartx>
yeah same
<Bornholio>
If your burn time is long enough, PEG will do all that automatically, and get to orbit in a single long burn (staging included), things it won't handle well are Hot Staging (still works just some accuracy loss), Coast phase (again may do it but its less accurate)
<stewartx>
yup peg is working well
<stewartx>
mostly
aradapil_ has quit []
aradapilot has joined #RO
Hypergolic_Skunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
smartdummies has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
<Starwaster>
stewartx PEG mostly works at night. Mostly.
wb99999999 has joined #RO
<wb99999999>
YO
<stewartx>
o7 wb99999999
<stewartx>
HELLO
<stewartx>
WHY ARE WE SHOUTING
<wb99999999>
BECAUSE I HELD SHIFT FOR ONE MOMENT TOO LONG
<stewartx>
and that's how world war iii started
<wb99999999>
yep
<stratochief>
WWIII will also be known as 'the autocorrect war'
<wb99999999>
oh man I'd start a war against that
<wb99999999>
damn it took me 5 tries to speed "against" right