<NathanKell>
Basically, parts that combine many tags need custom multipliers as shown there with the mk1pod as an example
<NathanKell>
also, yo, awang, YOU ARE AWESOME. Seen so many github messages. :)
<NathanKell>
I mean, all of you are awesome. Don't nobody feel neglected. <3
<NathanKell>
But just had to say.
* xShadowx
feels neglected
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* xShadowx
has no sexy space shows to watch
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: yeah I know about that, but I don't fully understand how that number's calculated (the comment doesn't quite unpack it enough)
<soundnfury>
also, NathanKell... we're not as awesome as you </saccharine>
<NathanKell>
:P :P
<NathanKell>
the idea is: a weighted average of the tags (which are price multipliers). Calculate how
<NathanKell>
urff, hit enter
<NathanKell>
So first you figure out all the tags a thing is.
<NathanKell>
(looking up pod)
<NathanKell>
MODULE
<NathanKell>
{
<NathanKell>
name = ModuleTagAvionics
<NathanKell>
}
<NathanKell>
MODULE
<NathanKell>
{
<NathanKell>
name = ModuleTagHabitable
<NathanKell>
}
<NathanKell>
MODULE
<NathanKell>
{
<NathanKell>
name = ModuleTagHumanRated
<NathanKell>
}
<NathanKell>
MODULE
<NathanKell>
{
<NathanKell>
name = ModuleTagReentry
<NathanKell>
}
<xShadowx>
the pastebin is weak in this one
<xShadowx>
:P
<soundnfury>
so the numerator is some arbitrarily-chosen affine combination of the tags (as per the comment line above), and the denominator is the product of the tags?
<soundnfury>
(well, tag multipliers, but anyway)
<NathanKell>
Yep. The numerator is the weighted average. So if we figured 20% of part is shielding, then .2 * (shielding multiplier)
<NathanKell>
And 70% of the cost comes from habitationness, then .7 * (hab mult)
<NathanKell>
etc
<soundnfury>
I'm sure we could find a way of doing this in code rather than having to calculate these fixups for every part
<NathanKell>
To the spreadsheet!
<NathanKell>
Or python I guess :P
<soundnfury>
no, I mean in KSP code. it'd be nice if the ModuleTagFoo had a "fraction" field
<soundnfury>
so that then some appropriate bit of magic could gather up all the tags and combine them
<NathanKell>
egg|zzz|egg: \o/
<soundnfury>
possibly s/fraction/weighting (and have it normalise automagically)
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: You'd think so. But how is the code to know exactly what portions are right for each part?
<NathanKell>
Some mods have the Mercury pod altogether. Some have it parted out.
<egg|zzz|egg>
(including a Principia that's not out yet, but cut and built already :-p)
<NathanKell>
The fractions will be different for the Apollo CM parts.
<NathanKell>
ETc.
<soundnfury>
no that's why you put the weighings in the MODULE {ModuleTagFoo} when you add it to the part
<egg|zzz|egg>
(time-travelling Clifford)
<NathanKell>
But you don't add it to the part that way.
<NathanKell>
That's automated already
<NathanKell>
That's the problem
<NathanKell>
If the tags were manually added, then sure, doing that makes sense
<soundnfury>
right but then you have an MM patch for the part, to add the weightings
<soundnfury>
that way the per-part stuff lives in per-part MM patches, rather than some magic gubbins in KCTPresets.cfg
<NathanKell>
At that point why not just bake the weightings into that cfg? Since, you know, this way involves not significantly writing KCT and your way does? :P
<wb99999999>
does anyone know of an elegant way to make a half-stage ring a la Atlas missile?
<NathanKell>
s/ly wr/ly rewr/
<Qboid>
NathanKell meant to say: At that point why not just bake the weightings into that cfg? Since, you know, this way involves not significantly rewriting KCT and your way does? :P
<NathanKell>
It's not the RP-0 tag code (the module code) that does the cost mods, it's KCT itself, see below in the file
<soundnfury>
fair enough. It just seems like the current solution is inelegant :(
<KevinStarwaster>
wb99999999 procedural fairing?
<NathanKell>
KCT just has a string->float lookup
<NathanKell>
Oh, I agree entirely
<NathanKell>
magico planned to make it more what we wanted
<NathanKell>
But ~time~
<soundnfury>
Oh btw, unrelated: you know that rollout costs are overestimated in the VAB, right?
<NathanKell>
IIRC they're always calc'd for the max-level pad?
<NathanKell>
Despite what pad you have?
<NathanKell>
I know magico was aware of that bug and didn't know why. I looked and the code made sense to me so I didn't know either :(
<KevinStarwaster>
wtf, Nathan is still here? What did you guys do to him to make him stay this long?
<NathanKell>
magic~~~
KevinStarwaster is now known as Starwaster
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn Starwaster
* Qboid
gives Starwaster a Hausdorff ☢
<soundnfury>
NathanKell: no, they seem to change depending on what pad I have selected
<xShadowx>
i locked him in a cage in the basement
<soundnfury>
they're just always too high
<Bornholio>
I promised russian space suit and will deliver as soon as i plug my phone in
<Starwaster>
xshadowx good deal
<wb99999999>
with P fairing it's easy to make a half stage that decouples and separate
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<wb99999999>
but what if I want a RING
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Ah. Then I don't know.
<soundnfury>
I wondered if maybe one place is using fractions in [0, 1] and the other is using integers for the pad level
<Starwaster>
use the original Pfairing... pretty sure you can make a one sided shell (ring)
<soundnfury>
but I never even _attempted_ to look at the KCT code, I'm scared of it :P
<NathanKell>
soundnfury: Been long enough I don't recall but I thought I traced the code paths and they looked similar so I got stumped
<Starwaster>
soundnfury why? It's just ones and zeroes
<NathanKell>
It's...well, it's clearly in need of a chainsaw (SO MANY GLOBALS) but it does work :)
<soundnfury>
Starwaster: what could be scarier than that?
<NathanKell>
argh, ok, lemme look
<soundnfury>
(well, apart from two. But there's no such thing as two, Bender.)
<NathanKell>
Scariness reconfirmed.
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<blowfish>
evening
<egg|zzz|egg>
blowfish: oh hey, I saw you rebuilt a mod a few hours ago
<xShadowx>
blowfish: hell froze over and pigs flew
<NathanKell>
heya!
<xShadowx>
see :P
<egg|zzz|egg>
blowfish: currently testing RO+RSS+RealHeat on 1.3.1, will make a few comments on some of awang's CLs and merge when they're addressed
<egg|zzz|egg>
adressed?
<Starwaster>
Hmmm. has anyone ever TRIED altering the stock pfairing config to allow one sided shells? Obviously for a fairing that would be stupid but if it WORKED.... it would allow interstages that don't break into pieces...
<egg|zzz|egg>
adddddddddddresssssssssssed
<blowfish>
add rest
<egg|zzz|egg>
well I am zzz
<egg|zzz|egg>
so that takes care of that, right?
<NathanKell>
...
<egg|zzz|egg>
what, did NathanKell forget just how silly eggs are?
<Bornholio>
what are the minimum requirements for FASA so i can trouble shoot the stupid eternal errors
<soundnfury>
welp, that's the last we'll see of him until 2019 :P
<awang>
I got a compliment from NK!
<awang>
I can die happy now
<soundnfury>
ikr
<awang>
Just finished reading through scrollback
<awang>
Pretty sure this is the busiest the channel has been in a few months
<soundnfury>
like I say, we're all lazy asses when NK isn't around to chivvy us :)
<awang>
Too true
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<awang>
NathanKell, #RO herder
<egg|zzz|egg>
awang: currently trying to test your CLs
<egg|zzz|egg>
so far haven't managed to get KSP to start :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
seems to hang
<egg|zzz|egg>
awang: I have a comment already though, you should update the expected version in the checkers of RSS, RO, and RealHeat in the CLs that rebuild for the new version
* egg|zzz|egg
stabbity KSP in the mysterious hanging
* egg|zzz|egg
zzz
<UmbralRaptor>
stab?
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: earthmoo
<Bornholio>
no stab = crash
<soundnfury>
CL?
<Qboid>
soundnfury: [CL] => Change List
<soundnfury>
who calls it that?
<soundnfury>
$#!%&¥ eggs.
<soundnfury>
!wpn Bornholio
* Qboid
gives Bornholio a frꙮg
<Bornholio>
.toss
<soundnfury>
Why are you tossing? </goodnighteverybody>
<NathanKell>
[17:55] <@egg|zzz|egg> awang: currently trying to test your CLs <<< *(#*(%# I thought I escaped that kinda talk. I come home, I expect git only.
<blowfish>
I went through the math once to see what it would take to properly calculate the burn time for something with a thrust curve ... I vaguely recall a nasty integral.
<blowfish>
Though maybe there are numeric integrators that could do it without much performance impact
<awang>
NathanKell: [17:55] <@egg|zzz|egg> awang: currently trying to test your CLs <<< *(#*(%# I thought I escaped that kinda talk. I come home, I expect git only.
<awang>
Used Mercurial too much?
<awang>
So much scrollback
<Bornholio>
awesome isn't it :)
<awang>
Things are starting to feel more alive
<xShadowx>
NathanKell: correct danrosas
<xShadowx>
nice memory for not seeing it in a year :P
<Bornholio>
was looking for better track data on 276 since it looked like it and 280 got somewhat close, but 276 is circular 400km and zuma was 600-1000km before de-orbit (if it was on the falcon upper stage)
<Bornholio>
plus still not making sense that they would de-orbit so abruptly if they still had it attached. My messed uptheory right now is that it was a rendevous with 276
<Oneiros>
i thought they made up the crash story as an attempted cover up
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<Oneiros>
yup after reading the articles, still seems that way
<Oneiros>
the red coats are back
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<Probus>
I'm starting to believe that Zuma's failure may have been a hoax.
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<Probus>
See, I just mention it and I'm cyber-attacked!
<Probus>
The Falcon Heavy hot fire has been rescheduled for Monday during a window that opens at 4pm EST
<Probus>
That ought to be some test. I wonder if they are going to fire all 27 at the same time.
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<Bornholio>
as i continue my DDOS on Probus he seems blissfully unaware.
<Bornholio>
oh hi
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<UmbralRaptor>
Uh
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<Rokker>
Bornholio: is there anything to do in Nebraska besides SAC museum
<Bornholio>
NO
<Bornholio>
oh wait i got to Morril Hall a lot, thats a natural history museum, also has moon rocks in it
<Rokker>
hmmm
<Rokker>
Bornholio: I guess I'd just have to stop by if I ever drive to Colorado to see some actual cool shit
<Bornholio>
oh and a very nice zoo, you know that one from tv for lots of years
<Bornholio>
other than that , just flatness
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<Probus>
I'm back! I blow my nose in Bornholio's general direction!
<Rokker>
Probus: just so you know, falcon static fires, while still impressive, don't go much farther than ignition. so it will just be 27 engines spooling up, ignition, quick burn lasting maybe a few seconds, and then done
<Rokker>
Bornholio: eh, he just turned the wrong direction
<Probus>
That's great Bornholio. That makes sense Rokker
<Bornholio>
any FASA experts in?
<Rokker>
anyways, sometimes you just turn left when you wanted to turn right, Bornholio
<Rokker>
he forgot to hold up his fingers and the the L ⅃ thing
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<Pap>
I am a FASA "expert" Bornholio
<Bornholio>
texture errors on loading
<Bornholio>
Texture load error in 'G:\SteamLibrary\steamapps\common\KSP 1.2.2 Clean\GameData\FASA\Props\LM_FuelIndicatorSE\FuelIndicatorInd.dds' is an example
<Bornholio>
also FASA Master zip always github downloads empty for me, releases are fine tho
<Bornholio>
nm just git being dumb
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<Bornholio>
tried pressing > to get a live video to speed up. .sigh
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<Qboid>
[#26] title: Errors in loading and MM processing | For a long time FASA spams me with a good amount of soft errors on load. Cleaning them up should be a good thing as most of them are simple texture issues.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/FASA-RO/issues/26
<Starwaster>
ok what's the deal with planetary normal maps? Which channel does what?
<Starwaster>
and which direction is the light assumed to be from?
<soundnfury>
unity is _always_ screwy. The question is, what handedness is its screw thread? :P
<Bornholio>
pap however is expert
<Bornholio>
starwaster thsi guys comment gets most of the planet stuff in one breath https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/165741-how-to-export-dds-textures/&tab=comments#comment-3178438
<Pap>
^^^ that's where I learned it all
<Starwaster>
what does he mean blue format? What does blue channel get used for?
<Starwaster>
or is that just your typical normal map where the blue channel is set to a flat all white?
<Qboid>
[#27] title: Fix texture errors by changing encoding | Made several texture.dds files BC3/DXT5 format and add mipmaps, also added a few missing textures from alternate locations. better solution might be rewriting config and commonizing location of those textures/normals. Normals encoded BC3nm/DXTnm... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/FASA-RO/issues/27
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<SRBuchanan>
Heyooo.
<Bornholio>
.wave
<SRBuchanan>
So now that I've got my direct line to the cool kids working again, anyone on here know a good source for modding guides? Everything I've found has been so out of date it isn't any help.
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<Bornholio>
Taniwha is in japan, maybe raidernick can be poked
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<SRBuchanan>
Just PM'd him through the Discord.
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<wb99999999>
rewatching some old launches and noticed how faithful RealPlume is
<SRBuchanan>
Yeah it's pretty good. I usually run Muffler as well for maximum reality.
<Starwaster>
this is driving me up the goddamn wall. If I don't figure out how to fix Kerbol 10x flipped normals I can't play anymore
<Bornholio>
png or .dds
<Bornholio>
north south flip, east to the left, if .dds
<Starwaster>
I have. It had no effect
<Starwaster>
it's freakin bizarre
<Bornholio>
using the other format think LT8
<Starwaster>
and the last update was like a year ago or something... and nobody else sees this?
<Starwaster>
LT8 for a normal map?
<Bornholio>
height map
<Bornholio>
L8
<Bornholio>
format not compression, but collar pap he did this a bunch
<Starwaster>
I don't think this is a height map issue, we're talking scaled space txtures
<Bornholio>
all i know is biomes are right to left flipped .png's colors/normals/heightmap dds flip both but as to channels and such no idea, and
<Bornholio>
heigh map has no alpha channel
<Bornholio>
do you have normal looking heightmap?
<Pap>
DDS automatically flips the image. I cannot remember of. It also mirrors them or not
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<soundnfury>
I know when I converted my RSS DDSes to PNG, I had to flip them vertically
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<wb99999999>
oh man
<wb99999999>
I really learned the hard way to separate solid boosters in pairs
<wb99999999>
don't attempt a cross if you're not koreolev
<soundnfury>
wb99999999: why, what happened?
<wb99999999>
flying Atlas II
<wb99999999>
separated SRBs ram into the half-stage fairing
<wb99999999>
blew up LR-89s
<Bornholio>
put small fins on the bottom to make them arc away, just a single that adds to the whole assembly CoL, also snubotrons to sep if they are higher up the side or large relative to the main
<soundnfury>
also itym Королёв (Korolyov). There's no e
<Bornholio>
unless US textbook :P
<wb99999999>
I really don't speak Russian
<wb99999999>
and my mother tongue is incompatible with languages that uses alphabets...
<wb99999999>
actually this is very interesting
<wb99999999>
would you guys mind some linguistic mumbo jumbo from me?
<wb99999999>
nvm, flying boosted atlas II is challenging...
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<SRBuchanan>
Are you letting PEG do it for you?
<lamont>
wb99999999: you got a craft file for the delta-v analysis issues you were seeing awhile back?