<Bornholio>
ah Sorry Mike` wrong character to ping you
<Bornholio>
pap did you get most everything running?
<Pap>
Bornholio: I haven't populated my GameData folder yet. Been spending my time downloading everything, I hope to try it tonight!
<Pap>
Your spreadsheet has been very useful
<Bornholio>
K anything that causes you problems make a note of plez
<SpecimenSpiff>
The only problem I had was cause I missed a mod
<SpecimenSpiff>
a couple entries were slightly out of date, pointed to pull requests that had already been merged
<SpecimenSpiff>
a few where I had to google the link
<SpecimenSpiff>
but nothing "wrong"
<Bornholio>
Everything in the 'bornholio's List" should be updated as of yesterday, scanning through again right now. The rest of the pages i only do saturday and only if i notice the change
<SpecimenSpiff>
if you've updated yesterday, that should cover anythign out of date I noticed Friday/Saturday
<SpecimenSpiff>
Thanks for that extra list btw, that helped
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<lamont>
have people generally pretty much quit 1.2.2 and are now working off of 1.3.1 + RP-1 + spreadsheet?
<Bornholio>
yes i will make them :P
<SpecimenSpiff>
I dont know about "generally" but I have
<lamont>
seems like all the cool kids have, and it sounds like its all going to land in CKAN in the next few weeks?
<Bornholio>
gladness will fill my heart the day i don't have to maintain the list
<Starwaster>
huh.... has there ALWAYS been a cube at the heart of an asteroid?
<Bornholio>
yes
<awang>
Oh man, it's been a while since I last thought of RWBY
<awang>
lamont: If "people" means "#RO denizens", then yes :P
<awang>
Unless Bornholio has been posting the spreadsheet on the forums/Discord
<Starwaster>
uhm bornholio... why are they bleeding rose petals?
<lamont>
yeah mostly wondering if anyone here cares if i’m backporting MJ dev work to 1.2.2 still or not
<awang>
Starwaster: Gotta keep it PG?
<Bornholio>
cause she's red?
<Starwaster>
awang I am offended by the mutilation of roses?
<lamont>
(other than me, ‘cuz i haven’t bothered to upgrade yet)
<Bornholio>
.patsHead
<Starwaster>
also, WHY THE HELL IS THERE A CUBE AT THE HEART OF THE ASTEROID????
<Bornholio>
um cause its a potatoroid
<Starwaster>
then why isn't there a potato at the heart of the asteroid?
<Starwaster>
POOO-TAY_TOOOOO
<awang>
Starwaster: I don't see roses being mutilated? Just conjured out of thin air :P
<awang>
Cube in asteroid?
<Bornholio>
awang look deeply into the potato
<Starwaster>
yeah I just rendezvoused with one
<Starwaster>
and there was a cube in it
<Starwaster>
I suppose I should just accept it's some Unity holdover from when they edited and imported it but I can't accept that
<awang>
Oh
<lamont>
have to ask the Engineers
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<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: Mike` left a message for you in #RO [29.01.2018 13:56:45]: "Some other LR79 costs were also wrong, i've fixed these along with the SHIP one and identicalparts in the spreadhseet a few days ago"
<NathanKell>
!tell Mike` cool!
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<SpecimenSpiff>
This funky design is really serving me well: https://imgur.com/a/vgzgQ. 801 funds, does Sounding Rocket Difficult contracts every 14 days at my current build rate
<NathanKell>
Bornholio: Nay, handsome!
<Bornholio>
I trained a new guy at work and found he is a kerbal player today, and told him of the greatness that is RO. I now go get a cookie
<NathanKell>
:D
<awang>
Another vict^H^H^H^Hplayer!
<awang>
Ugghhhhh
<awang>
At what point should I consider switching from "standard" reflection to delegates?
<awang>
Getting a delegate to a reflected type is.... interesting
<taniwha>
awang: if you call the method once in a blue moon, stick with just reflection
<taniwha>
if you call the method in *Update, use the delegate
<awang>
Does OnGUI fall into that category?
<taniwha>
yes
<Bornholio>
you fel on goooey?
<awang>
taniwha: :(
<awang>
Bornholio: Huh?
<taniwha>
awang: there's still some leeway
<Bornholio>
sorry i'm being silly, read on gui fall
<taniwha>
if it doesn't matter if things slow down a bit (eg, the GUI won't normally be left open), it's probably not worth the effort
<awang>
Bornholio: No need to apologize for silliness!
<awang>
taniwha: Hard for me to tell in this case, unfortunately
<awang>
In theory, updates wouldn't happen frequently
<taniwha>
go the easy way, evaluate
<awang>
idk what exactly LGG does
<awang>
Evaluate?
<taniwha>
are things still fast enough? if not, is it the method call slowing you down?
<Qboid>
[#21] title: Disable TestFlight during simulations | This isn't done yet; I got something working, but I'm not sure how to make it work when TF isn't actually around. What is the proper way of doing such a thing?... | https://github.com/linuxgurugamer/KRASH/issues/21
<awang>
Just want to know if there's anything I can do better
<awang>
Since I'm pretty new to C#
<awang>
Don't want C++-isms or Java-isms leaking in
<taniwha>
hmm, is that get/set syntax relatively new?
<awang>
I have no clue
<taniwha>
(don't think I've seen it before)
<awang>
VS suggested it when I was looking through the RP-0 codebase
<awang>
So I stuck with it
<taniwha>
I'm used to get { ... } etc
<taniwha>
anyway, side issue :)
<taniwha>
I don't see anything to complain about
<awang>
:D
<awang>
Thanks for taking the time to look!
<taniwha>
at most, I'd have moved those "if testFlightLoaded" blocks into separate methods, but that's personal style
<awang>
You mean the ones that save/restore TF state?
<taniwha>
yeah
<awang>
Yeah, idk
<awang>
I thought those were pretty short, so having them inline wouldn't hurt
<taniwha>
it doesn't
<taniwha>
thuse "personal style"
<awang>
true
<awang>
I guess ideally it'd be more RAII or try/finally-ish
<awang>
So the state is guaranteed to be rewound
<awang>
But it seems LGG has some other mechanism for that
<taniwha>
try... ick :)
<taniwha>
(well, just try... catch "oops, there was an error")
<taniwha>
(thus losing the stack trace)
<awang>
Well, obviously if no exception is printed in the logs nothing bad happened :P
<awang>
Hmmm
<awang>
Does IsInstanceOfType suffer from the same reflection performance penalties as MethodType.Invoke?
<awang>
If it does, I'm considering creating a FindModuleImplementing delegate
<awang>
Since I have the type object for ModuleTooling
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<Vader111>
and see if it fixes your null refs for Contract Configurator
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<Vader111>
also lamont your latest version of peg is spamming this is the log in the vab NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
<NathanKell>
The most important bit is that it has to act only if a VAB build queue is idle
<NathanKell>
otherwise it's just free money
<SpecimenSpiff>
I had similar as an enancment, possibly dedicate a pad and vab build points
<SpecimenSpiff>
not like a nike-ajax uses vab time at the cape
<NathanKell>
No, not dedicated. The point IMO is "replace grinding". And you grind *when there's nothing _better_ to build*
<NathanKell>
It's a gameplay solver. A Nike-Ajax doesn't take much integration or support, so...we factor it out :]
<SpecimenSpiff>
so for build queue access, does that require it to be a fork of kct, or is there an api for that?
<NathanKell>
Almost everything in KCT is public, just reference the dll
<NathanKell>
Things the mod would need to do, IMO: (a) only take advantage of idle VAB queues and [stretch] idle pads; and (b) scale rewards (and build time vs VAB rate) based on tech level. Ideally it would model the performance of the player's own saved sounding rocket craft, but eh, super stretch.
<SpecimenSpiff>
I thought about that, require you to run one contract, and it tracks what the vehicle you used cost and how long it took to build
<SpecimenSpiff>
but I could see that being complex if even possible
<Vader111>
NathanKell, are you able to test the rebuilt version of CC_Remotetech to fix CC with the latest version of remotetech2
<NathanKell>
About to go to bed, so no, sorry
<Vader111>
ok no worrys
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: Yeah that's a stretch
<NathanKell>
!tell Bornholio* I found and fixed this, pushed to RO dev. [12:38] <Bornholio> [ModuleManager] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key mainConf = #$temp$ $name$:$name$ looks like in testflight
<Qboid>
NathanKell: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Vader111>
oh god i was getting that error to
<SpecimenSpiff>
are the administrative strategies moddable?
<Vader111>
good it fixed
<NathanKell>
SpecimenSpiff: Very, yes. Although Strategia is a better route.
<SpecimenSpiff>
or perpahs a better question, reasonably moddable?
<NathanKell>
Anyway, o/ all!
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<Vader111>
o7
<NathanKell|AFK>
Yes, the basic ones are cfg-defined
<NathanKell|AFK>
and Strategia adds all sorts of cool stuff
<NathanKell|AFK>
depends what you want to do tho
<lamont>
NK are you avoiding PEG launches because you’re not far enough along yet?
<NathanKell|AFK>
lamont it has a coast period and kick motor
<NathanKell|AFK>
Wish I could use peg
<NathanKell|AFK>
was just complaining about that today :D
<lamont>
heh, well PEG now has a coast period, but you’d have to guess it correctly
<lamont>
i just successfully used it today to do a PEG launch from kerbin
<NathanKell|AFK>
which varies per mission because desired perigee varies, so...
<NathanKell|AFK>
Ah, cool!
<lamont>
so what you’re doing is targetting your apoapsis with as much delta-v as your booster has left, and then you’re lighting your solids at apoapsis?
<NathanKell|AFK>
Correct. Which should be quite solvable for an algorithm
<lamont>
yeh
<lamont>
i’m fading hard though, i’ll need to sleep on it
<lamont>
starwaster brough up another thing which was some of the sub-orbital contracts in stock where you want to hit an altitude (which might even be in the atmosphere) with a certain velocity and not exceed it
<NathanKell|AFK>
yeah
<NathanKell|AFK>
And also yeah on fading
<NathanKell|AFK>
so o/ :)
<lamont>
yepperz
<lamont>
‘nite
<lamont>
o/
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<Qboid>
Vader111: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Probus>
o/
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<Probus>
I have a question for the programmers in the channel. Would it be possible to show the lines of communication on the regular view screen? Not just the map view?
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<Bornholio>
vader111 did you pr that issue?
<Qboid>
Bornholio: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [30.01.2018 07:17:32]: "I found and fixed this, pushed to RO dev. [12:38] <Bornholio> [ModuleManager] Error - Cannot parse variable search when inserting new key mainConf = #$temp$ $name$:$name$ looks like in testflight"
<Garlik>
!tell Probus I'm no real programmer, so could not tell you how to that, I think best would be to branch RT and add that mechanic in there
<Qboid>
Garlik: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Garlik>
!tell Probus a workaround might be to use KOS integration for RT to show this to you, you can show vectors with KOS, and use this to find the data you want: https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/addons/RemoteTech.html
<Qboid>
Garlik: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang>
KSP isn't at C# 4+, right?
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<awang>
At least not until 1.4?
<Mike`>
? c#4 was released almost 8 years ago
<Qboid>
Mike`: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [30.01.2018 02:29:54]: "cool!"
<awang>
Right, but KSP isn't up to date with C#, I thought
<awang>
Is it?
<Mike`>
no idea which versions they use/target
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<Mike`>
does anybody here have a clue how the effective range in the antenna descriptions is calculated?
<awang>
min(r1, r2) + sqrt(r1 * r2), I think?
<awang>
With a ceiling of 100 * r for omni antennae and 1000 * r for dish antennae
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<awang>
The DSN means that the earlier omni antennae are limited by the 100 * r part
<Qboid>
Probus: Garlik left a message for you in #RO [30.01.2018 13:57:25]: "I'm no real programmer, so could not tell you how to that, I think best would be to branch RT and add that mechanic in there"
<Qboid>
Probus: Garlik left a message for you in #RO [30.01.2018 13:58:15]: "a workaround might be to use KOS integration for RT to show this to you, you can show vectors with KOS, and use this to find the data you want: https://ksp-kos.github.io/KOS/addons/RemoteTech.html"
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<awang>
Mike`: Yeah, I've been bitten by that
<Mike`>
awang, i'm trying to put it in
<awang>
"Oh, this lunar antenna seems to be good for 600Mm+
<awang>
"
<awang>
"Wait, why can't I control my probe once I'm past the Moon?"
<awang>
And that's how I lost my first ballistic capture probe :(
<awang>
Yeah, putting it in sounds like a good idea
<awang>
No clue if it's realistic
<Mike`>
remotetech things - don't even use root range as standard model :(
<awang>
Probably because it's more complex for players to calculate
<awang>
No big deal for the players that are used to having to do some amount of math
<awang>
But not as newbie-friendly
<awang>
And idk what portion of the playerbase actually tries to use math for stuff
<awang>
#RO is a bit of a biased sample
<Mike`>
:)
<Mike`>
i added that info on the ro wiki page
<awang>
Nice!
<xShadowx|2>
what? ksp can be played without ro?
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<Probus>
I am full of questions today.
<Probus>
Can water be added to Mars/RSS for a RO-RSS game only?
<Probus>
Does water automatically find where its shores should be or does it have to be specifically told.
<Probus>
I was thinking of a futuristic teraforming game.
<Mike`>
or will it slowly seep away, never to be seen again?
<Probus>
You get where I'm going with this. BFR, NFT, Interstellar.
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<Probus>
I guess everyone has their hands full with RO/RP-1 but it may be worth looking at for a future project.
<Probus>
I might talk to Gregroxmun
<Starwaster>
... That horrible feeling right after launch when you realize you forgot to install Kerbal Joint Reinforcement for your real sized rocket...
<Probus>
Spaghettification
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<CommandoDiamond>
beep boop
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<Mike`>
any good way to debug performance issues? when i have my 74 part rocket at the launchpad, time only runs at 50-66% speed :(
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<awang>
Mike`: In theory, getting the Unity profiler set up would help with that
<awang>
I haven't been able to do that, so can't really help you there :(
<awang>
Only other way I know of is to bisect your install
<awang>
Problem with that is that it really works best for a single mod causing massive slowdowns
<awang>
Multiple mods contributing a bit at a time would be more difficult to detect
<awang>
Mike`: You can try Sarbian's instructions here: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/102909-ksp-plugin-debugging-and-profiling-for-visual-studio-and-monodevelop-on-all-os/&
<awang>
Didn't work for me on macOS
<awang>
Seems that other people have had success though
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<Mike`>
thanks awang
<Mike`>
is your game running smooth with rockjets in that part count region?
<soundnfury>
did TestFlight's failure rates get changed recently? My AJ10-37s are failing about 50% of the time with full data
<soundnfury>
in particular I'm getting a lot of "failed to ignite"
<awang>
Mike`: Not at all
<awang>
Although I think it's more because I have a bajillion mods installed, including RSSVE
<awang>
And my specs are likely not good enough
<awang>
soundnfury: IIRC someone fixed a bug that was preventing ignition failures from happening at all
<Mike`>
awang, well... :( it seems it might be somewhat part count related here, i've been running eve/scatterer/rssve for ages and never really had much problems i think...oh well
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<awang>
Mike`: idk, then
<awang>
Sorry :(
<awang>
IIRC my rockets haven't gotten that many parts yet either
<awang>
Still on the 60 ton pads, so things are kept relatively simple
<awang>
And looks like profiling is more complex than I initially expected
<awang>
You either have to insert profiling calls explicitly into the code
<awang>
Or use "deep profiling"
<Mike`>
well, even my 20t rocket appears to have ~50 parts
<awang>
And the latter apparently imposes a significant performance/memory penalty
<awang>
And never mind, apparently I'm at 80 parts already o_O
<awang>
At least according to the .craft file
<Mike`>
not hard to get, if you have 2 rcs stages for example with 8 or 12 of the one directional thrusters... that's 16-24 parts already :)
<Mike`>
hehehe
<Mike`>
see
<Mike`>
:D
<awang>
True
<awang>
Forgot to count those in my initial estimate
<awang>
Although I think I finally upgraded to the 4-way thrusters
<awang>
Saves a ton on mass
<awang>
Yeah, my rockets now seem to be hovering in the 50-80 part range
<soundnfury>
huh. My three-stage Thor/Able/XASR is only 36.
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<Mike`>
and you have the same problem...might be "normal", still annoys me though
<awang>
The rockets with higher part counts are probes, it looks like
<awang>
So high part count for science instruments, solar panels, etc
<soundnfury>
yeah, my game hasn't yet reached the point of e.g. controllable probes
<soundnfury>
hmm, annoyingly it looks as though if an engine fails on the clamps you have to rollback & rollout again, you can't just restart it any more :(
<awang>
soundnfury: Yep, think that was something that was "fixed" in Starstrider's PR
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<awang>
literalZeroIgnitions <-- ewwwwwww
<soundnfury>
yeah I didn't like it either
<soundnfury>
but ytilibitapmoc is a bitch
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<awang>
ytilibitapmoc?
<soundnfury>
backwards compatibility :P
<awang>
Ohhhhhhh
<awang>
Clever
<awang>
That's backwards compatibility with old save files?
<soundnfury>
joke stolen from Ben "Yahtzee Croshaw
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<soundnfury>
no, with old cfgs
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<awang>
Ah
<awang>
The Zero Punctuation guy?
<soundnfury>
yeah
<awang>
Oh right, because RF isn't like RO and doesn't keep configs around itself
<awang>
Hmmm
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<Starwaster>
no you cant
<Starwaster>
oops sorry, responding to something a page up
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* soundnfury
wonders how Yahtzee would react to RP-1
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<awang>
soundnfury: Buggy unplayable mess?
<soundnfury>
awang: I suspect he'd have some choice words for the undiscoverability
<awang>
Ah, yes
<soundnfury>
i.e. the "oh I'm supposed to _already know_ all this stuff that shouldn't even _need_ to be in the manual, let alone what manual?"
<awang>
Having to hunt down a bajillion and one wikis wouldn't be fun
<awang>
Well
<awang>
I guess if he was fine with Minecraft...
<soundnfury>
not having played Minecraft (DF forever!), I gather it's basically "rub every item on every other item until something good happens", like a LucasArts adventure game only without the endearingly snarky humour
<awang>
DF?
<awang>
Oh, dwarf fortress
<awang>
I guess that could work as a description
<soundnfury>
if you try that approach with stock KSP you might eventually make orbit. If you try that approach with RP-1 you will frustratedly scream "how do I make anything do anything?"
<awang>
Although something similar works for KSP
<awang>
Ninja'd :P
<awang>
I'll bet RF would make for an interesting rant
<awang>
Different combinations of chemicals and all
<soundnfury>
eh I dunno, that bit is _kinda_ done for you with the "click to put the right chemicals in this tank" button
<soundnfury>
so he might rant about it being pointless, but not about it being needlessly difficult
<awang>
True
<awang>
Although I find engines with verniers that use a slightly different fuel mixture quite annoying
<soundnfury>
ah yes
<soundnfury>
how do you get roll control on Neptune?