<stewartx>
what does stable peg guidance mean, that's actively steering the rocket correct?
<wb99999999>
stable means it is converged and is doing close-loop guidance
<wb99999999>
actually you can hear this in some shuttle launches, a few seconds after SRB separation someone would say "guidance has converged" in the comms
<stewartx>
oooh yeah i've heard that
<stewartx>
til
<lamont_>
stable guidance means not only that it has converged but that the initial manual pitch over maneuver is done and PEG is really in command of the rocket
<stewartx>
yup yup that's what i thught
<stewartx>
does it use rcs to finetune the periapsis?
<lamont_>
yeah it will if its enabled at the end of the burn
<stewartx>
i asked for 220km and MECO was when periapsis was at 120km
<Starwaster>
that's an old picture of an old OLD mishap I had
<Starwaster>
one of those spontaneous unplanned rapid disassemblies
<ProjectThoth>
Probably Exploding Guidance.
<Starwaster>
LOL
<lamont_>
that’s pretty impressive
<lamont_>
i need to get launch to rendezvous working so that you can launch ships right on top of each other
<Starwaster>
OH I remember what that picture was from... I was landing something very VERY large back on Kerbin and every time it passed below a certain altitude, physics just went HAYWIRE
<lamont_>
i think i will fix the node executor warp bug now
<wb99999999>
but I don't know coding...so I didn't really get what is happening
<lamont_>
stewartx: oh, that smells like a stage stats bug
<stewartx>
ok
<lamont_>
make sure to set your root part to something in your payload, like that command module and make sure its not your fuel tanks on your stage there or something
<stewartx>
yeah i read that. could it be because i don't actually stage. it's all done automagically through smart parts
<stewartx>
the delta v stats in mechjeb are accurate tho
<lamont_>
vgo being non-zero like that means something is off in the stage stats
<stewartx>
okay, i'll have a poke
<lamont_>
PEG thought it had more thrust or less mass than it did
<wb99999999>
hmm, unusual booster
<wb99999999>
that's a J-2 on a big tank...so I guess strap-on boosters then?
<lamont_>
i wonder if i should just cut off based on vgo instead of tgo and then you’d at least reach a much more correct orbit, and the highly negative tgo would be a sign that there might an accuracy issue
<stewartx>
what does tgo time to go?
<lamont_>
yeah time to go of the burn
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<lamont_>
wb99: i can’t see how sarbian’s change or his prior change would have changed anything about SRBs
<wb99999999>
I have confirmed that it is more than just SRB
<wb99999999>
almost any side booster actually
<Starwaster>
OK does PEG Status: FAILED in large red letters mean I AM going to Space today? I forget
<lamont_>
yes!
<lamont_>
then you’re coming right back!
<stewartx>
oh, fuel cells don't work in the warp...
<wb99999999>
what?
<wb99999999>
they should
<stewartx>
they don't for me, depleted most of my service module battery but now that i'm out of warp they are recharging"
<Starwaster>
stock modules or TAC or some other mod?
<Starwaster>
ok that has TWO producing modules... one stock and one TAC... I guess depending on waht resources it has available. Kind of tacky to do it that way
<wb99999999>
oh I remember about that
<Starwaster>
assuming you're giving it H2/O2 because RO?
<stewartx>
yeah i know, i'm going to have a dig in the configs and see what's going on
<stewartx>
yup
<Starwaster>
I'd post in the TAC thread about it then if it's not producing during warp
<Starwaster>
also it should be reconfigured to use gaseous O2/H2 instead of liquid form. That way you don't waste your boiloff
<stewartx>
yeah i did wonder about that.
<stewartx>
apollo used gaseous, right?
<Starwaster>
yes
<stewartx>
alright so i've got 2 issues, staging and fuel cells. we'll call that a partial success
<Starwaster>
supposedly the tanks did not actually have the reactants in liquid form.... instead being supercritical fluid. But for our purposes, liquid is just fine. You'd want heater though just ilke Apollo did
<Starwaster>
for reference purposes if anyone wants to incorporate into RO
<lamont_>
stewartx: that looks entirely reasonable
<wb99999999>
and maybe get some M-1 engines
<wb99999999>
god forsaken the hydrolox engine with more thrust than F-1...
<lamont_>
seadragon
<wb99999999>
that's more industrial furnace than engine, I would argue
<lamont_>
stewartx: so what you should check is that when you’re burning your upper stage that all the number agree with all the rest of the numbers from KSP
<stewartx>
ok
<lamont_>
so stop it with about 40-60 seconds left in the upper before cutout
<lamont_>
check that the stage stats for the vessel mass match with the vessel mass from the vessel stats in MJ
<stewartx>
i just had a thought, there is an early shutdown of a h-1 engine to maintain g limits, would that be it?
<stewartx>
that occurs during the pitchover
<lamont_>
hrm possibly
<stewartx>
i'll take jeb up
<stewartx>
and not shut them down
<lamont_>
that should affect predictions before the shutdown though
<stewartx>
Well Jeb says he's prepared to do it for science
<lamont_>
if stage stats don’t update to reflect the engine being shutdown then that might be your culprit (the TWR / max TWR calc in particular would need to jump when you shut it down for PEG to know anything about it)
<wb99999999>
a cluster of small engines at the lower stage and a single same engine for upper
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<stewartx>
figure out the fuel cells?
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<BadRocketsCo>
Howdy
<soundnfury>
ahoy-hoy
<BadRocketsCo>
soundnfury: where do you put all the apollo experiments?
<BadRocketsCo>
They're bloody gigantic
<soundnfury>
dunno, don't use 'em
<BadRocketsCo>
Alright
<BadRocketsCo>
Well, my Mars lander AND my jupiter flyby mission were both failures
<soundnfury>
how did you manage that?
<BadRocketsCo>
Mars lander crashed into the ground because the solid fuel motors didn't slow it down enough for the airbags to be effective
<BadRocketsCo>
And the flyby mission had an electrical failure
<soundnfury>
electrical how?
<BadRocketsCo>
As if in *someone* didn't take into account that the RTG is only enough to power the probe core and not the dish
<soundnfury>
ahh
<soundnfury>
that's why you use RTFC + time delay to duty-cycle the dish ;)
<BadRocketsCo>
RTFC?
<soundnfury>
remotetech flight computer
* soundnfury
is flying a halifax home and will have to belly-land it because the gear is gone
<soundnfury>
oh but we lost anyway for some reason
<BadRocketsCo>
Huh
<BadRocketsCo>
Ya play arcade or realistic?
<soundnfury>
realistic
<BadRocketsCo>
Noiss
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<BadRocketsCo>
Aaand back from walking the puppy
<soundnfury>
ah
<BadRocketsCo>
Alright, now I can put crew into my space station and I have 140 days until the Apollo is built
<BadRocketsCo>
I hope I balanced my spacecraft well enough this time
<stewartx>
howdy
<soundnfury>
eyup
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<ProjectThoth>
How on Earth was DC-X supposed to survive reentry?
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<oneiros>
hey
<oneiros>
has anyone done a realism mod for researching parts?
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<Probus>
o/
<Probus>
What's new with RO? Kinda been out of the loop.
<Probus>
Anything?
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<oneiros>
not sure, i only just discovered it
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<Probus>
Hi Oneiros. I was kinda wondering along the same lines, if any new parts had been added recently.
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<oneiros>
i mean the way parts are researched
<oneiros>
because im not sure that observing mysterious goo-like substances in space can really help elon musk's tesla get to mars
<oneiros>
could be wrong tho
<Probus>
:)
<oneiros>
hehe
<oneiros>
i made a tech tree mod a couple of years ago, and the science system it still a bit silly
<oneiros>
*is
<Pap>
There is a completely new tech tree as well as a new science system, astronaut training, parts tooling, etc
<Probus>
Sweet Honey Luvin' Mama!
<oneiros>
oh in RO?
<oneiros>
i think a more realistic and fun approach would be to remove the tech tree entirely, have all parts available from the start but require research (time and money). every part starts out maybe 20% less efficient than normal, but research based on testing and using the part can improve it to normal level or better.
<Pap>
Oneiros: there is complete agreement with the dev group on your thoughts. There was a Real Science Overhaul that was being worked on, but didn't go too far as people's time went away.
<oneiros>
ok i see
<oneiros>
i'd be happy to work on it if the group is open to the idea
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<soundnfury>
idk about realistic, but I feel fun requires there to be a tech tree, at least for me
<oneiros>
do you like the sense of progression and development? being restricted in the beginning?
<oneiros>
the stock tree drives me nuts lol
<soundnfury>
yes, I _like_ struggling with barely-adequate equipment
<Pap>
Oneiros: you should take a look at the new tree. It is unlike anything else done for KSP before
<soundnfury>
makes every success that much more satisfying :)
<Probus>
ditto
<oneiros>
haha
<oneiros>
you could still do that if you dropped stock part stats enough
<soundnfury>
beware: there *are* known bugs, particularly around crewed stuff
<soundnfury>
(crew training sometimes breaks; capsules are overpriced about 7x; did I miss anything?)
<oneiros>
lol
<oneiros>
this looks like a huge project/team
<oneiros>
all i really need is the tech tree and stock part tech node assignments. that should be enough to get a sense of it, though i image RO adds a lot of new parts
<soundnfury>
don't be fooled. RO development _mostly_ only happens when NathanKell is around
<oneiros>
btw Pap I really like your realistic evolution contracts mod.
<oneiros>
ahh ok lol
<Pap>
Oneiros: you cannot really play RO with stock parts
<soundnfury>
the rest of us are just doing little cleanup tasks ;)
<oneiros>
ok i see
<Pap>
Thanks! The contract system in RO was redone and updated as well.
<oneiros>
nice
<soundnfury>
(don't get me wrong, NK doesn't do all the work himself; it's just that without him around, we tend to not get much done for some reason)
<oneiros>
sounds like a totally new game
<soundnfury>
Oneiros: it basically is
<oneiros>
haha
<soundnfury>
ksp is just the "engine" xD
<oneiros>
lol yeah
<oneiros>
ive thought that for a while tho
<oneiros>
KSP is like the great basis or engine for a game, they just didn't polish it enough
<oneiros>
it has a lot of potential for expansion
<oneiros>
i hope this works out well for you guys, it looks like you're on a good track
<soundnfury>
I just wish squard would open-source ksp rather than slowly running it into the ground *sigh*
<oneiros>
hm
<soundnfury>
they wouldn't even need to license the art assets, we don't need 'em
<soundnfury>
(we have VSR, SXT etc.)
<oneiros>
well at some point the mod might outgrow KSP
<oneiros>
you could always use unity or unrealengine instead of your KSP engine haha
<oneiros>
ofc thats a lot of work but then maybe people would get paid? idk. im just a modder lol
<oneiros>
i reckon if the mod got popular enough lord gaben would descend from the clouds with handfuls of cash for all the devs
<oneiros>
i reckon if the mod got popular enough lord gaben would descend from the clouds with handfuls of cash for all the devs
<oneiros>
:P
<oneiros>
anyway i think the time has come to stop rambling and actually try RO lol
<soundnfury>
well, if we're lucky NK's seekrit projekt at Valve may turn out to be a KSP replacement
<oneiros>
nice
<oneiros>
let players send gaben to mars in a falcon heavy copy just when elon launches his tesla
<oneiros>
oh and all in VR
<soundnfury>
nah, we'll all be too busy *watching* elon launch the tesla xD
<oneiros>
true
<oneiros>
since its about as likely to explode as any KSP mission
<oneiros>
true
<oneiros>
haha
<oneiros>
it keeps crashing. i guess maybe it doesnt work on KSP 1.3.1
<soundnfury>
oh yeah it's currently still on 1.2.2 sorry
<oneiros>
yeah, i was hoping it might run at least. o well
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<oneiros>
bbl
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<stewartx>
gaseous hydrogen escapes from procedural service tanks?
<Starwaster>
stewartx gaseous hydrogen is generated from service tanks and will be collected if you provide a tank for it
<stewartx>
ok, i'll muck around with that on my next mission
<Starwaster>
any H2 or O2 tank on the vehicle will collect boiloff from LH2/LOX in a service module
<Starwaster>
I think only service modules are set up that way
<stewartx>
sweet
<Starwaster>
which of course can be used for fuel cells or life support
<stewartx>
15g rentry damn
<stewartx>
best way to reduce that?
<stewartx>
i suppose running out of rcs propellant would help
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<stewartx>
lamont_: how do i know what to set the booster pitch end as?
<lamont_>
you guess
<lamont_>
its a balacing act, you want to pitch over hard enough, yet still make orbit and not burn up
<lamont_>
if PEG engages and you have a lot of high AoA you’ve /probably/ pitched over too much?
<stewartx>
yup yup, thanks.
<lamont_>
the right answer to that is to be able to run a sim which takes a gravity turn into PEG and feed that into an optimizer and have it spit out the best answer it can find
<stewartx>
ahh, just in the wiki it says "Generally what you want to do is program a pitch program which has an ending angle which matches what PEG is predicting"
<stewartx>
thought that meant PEG knew what the ending pitch should be already
<lamont_>
hrm
<lamont_>
no i mean you need to know at MECO what PEG will be predicting, and you need to be able to pitch over right in order to hit that — which is all guess, check and refine at this point
<stewartx>
gotcha
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