<Bornholio>
wb99999999 is your chinese good? you should contribute to a chinese engine mod pack
NomalRaptor is now known as UmbralRaptor
<wb99999999>
Born I am actually born in China
<wb99999999>
I skimmed that book I got, it is a little outdated
<wb99999999>
it was published in 1999
<wb99999999>
so new stuff not included
<awang>
soundnfury: Could you explain a bit more? I don't get it
<soundnfury>
you want to arrive at the moon just above (or just below) its orbit
<soundnfury>
that way the moon's gravity will grab you and pull you to something _near_ to polar
<awang>
I see
<awang>
Do you know about how much dv it may or may not save over a polar orbit from an approximately in-plane parking orbit?
<awang>
I can't seem to get an impact without spending over 3500 m/s on TLI
<soundnfury>
whaaaaa? impact is only about 3100 - if that - away from leo
<soundnfury>
though if you're going for impact I don't see why you'd care about your inclination (unless you're trying to impact the pole or something?)
<soundnfury>
I haven't tried it, but am intrigued and look forward to it
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<awang>
soundnfury: Yep, that's it. Will require quite a bit of rebalancing for RP-0 though
<awang>
How much dv should I expect to save by taking a slightly shallower trajectory?
<awang>
If I save dv at all?
<awang>
Er
<Bornholio>
define shallow
<awang>
I guess the better question is what advantages should I expect from taking a shallower trajectory
<awang>
Uh
<Bornholio>
lower pe on target body?
<awang>
The case I had in mind was a pitch program that changed pitch faster
<awang>
Same target orbit
<awang>
Changed from 0.75 deg/sec to 0.9 deg/sec
<awang>
idk if I noticed a difference
<awang>
Or if I'm even supposed to notice one
<awang>
I noticed heating visual effects with 0.9 deg/sec, but beyond that, idk
<Bornholio>
more time spent going horizontal is better, lower gravity losses, but might ofset that wih higher drag losses
<Bornholio>
basicly as TWR goes up pitch rate should go up
<soundnfury>
yeah, you want to turn as fast as possible consistent with your resulting Pe being high enough
<awang>
Drag losses are usually relatively minor compared to gravity losses, right?
<Bornholio>
so a 1.2 TWR launch should have a longer pitch program, but will have high gravity losses. while a 1.7TWR launch should pitch over quickly but will have drag losses and greater max aerodynamic stress
<awang>
Although I guess the more important quantity here is change in gravity losses vs change in drag losses
<soundnfury>
yeah, usually you're limited by max Q long before you hit marginal equilibrium
<awang>
And luckily, max Q isn't really a problem in KSP
<awang>
Or at least I haven't noticed it being an issue
<awang>
Guess I should bump up the rotation rate then
<Bornholio>
hmm i've ripped apart a good number of rockets thanks to ferram
<awang>
Unfortunately, I don't think a drop-in polar orbit for the moon is an option for me :(
<awang>
Don't have the delta-v to make it to a polar Earth orbit
<soundnfury>
yeah if your stabbity is marginal, an increase in max Q can push you over the ragged edge
<Bornholio>
yeah your in the early tech crunch zone
<awang>
My stabbity is marginal?
<awang>
I think UmbralRaptor has been rubbing off on you :P
<awang>
And/or egg
<Bornholio>
anything a-4/a-9 has stabbity issues :P
<awang>
I've just ended up putting fins on everything because MJ can't fly unstable rockets
<awang>
unstable/marginally stable, I guess
<Bornholio>
RCS build aid dry CoM is the cheat mode for that, but a-4 gimbal is atrocious
<awang>
What does dry CoM tell you?
<soundnfury>
awang: I've been hanging around #kspacademia for probably a year by now, of _course_ I call it stabbity
<awang>
Er
<awang>
What does dry CoM have to do with stability?
<awang>
soundnfury: First time I've heard someone go s/stability/stabbity
<Bornholio>
if CoL behind both CoM's then go forward
<awang>
Ah, right
<awang>
I never bothered checking dry CoM
<awang>
I assumed that dry CoM is going to be higher up, so if the rocket is stable with wet CoM it should be stable with dry
<Bornholio>
static stabbity is that simple, dynamic stabbity is a function of control inputs. Which MJ and SAS can mess with but those can be tunned with settings on fins and gimbal
<awang>
Apparently PEG does not like infinite fuel being on
<Bornholio>
very true
<awang>
Which is perfectly understandable
<awang>
Just mildly annoying for testing
<awang>
Especially since I can't HyperEdit orbits with Principia installed
<Bornholio>
Hyper Edit is better for that if you use misc/fuel add
<awang>
misc/fuel add?
<Bornholio>
you can edit resource levels in misc tab
<awang>
Is that just adding arbitrary amounts of fuel to tanks?
<awang>
TIL
<awang>
I'll need to give that a shot
<awang>
Guessing that that would still mess with PEG though
<awang>
Sudden drop in TWR may not be good
<awang>
Time to restart KSP
<awang>
~21 GB of RAM
<awang>
Takes like 10 minutes to revert flight to launch
<Bornholio>
bah too busy doing CU classes to keep up with the 1.3.1 spreadsheet
<awang>
CU classes?
<soundnfury>
gah still cannot figure out why Phobos and Deimos don't exist
<Bornholio>
Continuing education for my license. Kopernicus correct version?
<wb99999999>
PEG also dislikes very short stages, even as a part of a longer lasting vehicle
<soundnfury>
Bornholio: idk, I will check for a newer one
<Bornholio>
are you suing new RSS with pap's scaled space textures?
<Bornholio>
using
<Pap>
I will NOT be sued!
<soundnfury>
I am using Pap's new scaledRSS-Textures, yes
<soundnfury>
paaaaaaaaap why don't phobos and deimos exist?
<Pap>
Are you on Linux?
<soundnfury>
yes
<Pap>
When KSP went to 1.2, they broke the Linux version
<Pap>
But I do not know why they do not exist for you, they should
<lamont>
yeah PEG + sudden drops in TWR is bad
<soundnfury>
and most of my planets are yellow, which I'm going to work around by converting all your DDSes to PNGs :P
<soundnfury>
Pap: they always _used_ to exist, on the old RSS textures
<soundnfury>
I'm fairly sure it was when I installed yours that they vanished :/
<Pap>
Yeah, from what the Kopernicus guys told me, it has something to do with the textures being in th ePlugins folder and only loaded on demand
<Pap>
apparently Linux doesn't like that
<soundnfury>
which, the yellow, or the phobos?
<Pap>
The yellow for sure
<Pap>
I would assume the other issue as well
<soundnfury>
btw I have kopernicus 1.2.2-6 which is the last proper 1.2.2 release, though there are apparently some backport releases after that
<Pap>
If you move all of the textures out of the plugin folder, and you edit the CFG files, I will think you should have no further problems
<soundnfury>
well I found that converting the DDSes to PNGs (also flipping them vertically which is apparently necessary) fixes the yellowness
<Pap>
Yeah, it is a DDS issue
<soundnfury>
I've converted Phobos & Deimos to PNG, and reloaded KSP, let's see...
<Pap>
When you save as a DDS, it flips the image automatically, so yes, in order to convert back, you have to do the same
<soundnfury>
nope, contract configurator still throwing "'Phobos' is not a valid CelestialBody." errors, suggests it's not fixed
<soundnfury>
and before that, nothing untoward in the logs that mentions Phobos
<awang>
I've managed to tune my stage so that the fuel runs out at about the right time, but I'd prefer to not rely on that
<awang>
Jump may be because inclination isn't right?
<awang>
Target 28.608
<awang>
Actual 28.589
<awang>
...Wonder how that happened, given that latitude at launch was 28.608
<awang>
And launch heading was 90 degrees
<awang>
Yeah, idk what PEG is doing with inclination
<awang>
About a minute to go with my upper stage, heading is 92.6 and increasing, so inclination is 28.598 and dropping, even though target is 28.608
<awang>
This happens even during terminal guidance
<awang>
Autopilot seems to disengage at the right time
<awang>
It just doesn't kill the throttle when it does so
<awang>
Oh, and about the 0.75 deg/sec vs 0.9 deg/sec pitch program
<awang>
0.9 deg/sec results in 27.4 m/s more drag losses, but 34.7 m/s less gravity losses and 9.6 less steering losses, and expends 4.9 m/s less dv overall
<awang>
Also results in a 186x183km orbit, while 0.75 m/s resulted in a 186x168km orbit. In both cases, the orbits were reached right as the upper stage ran out of fuel
<awang>
0.9 deg/sec has 38 MW/m^2 peak heating, while 0.75 deg/sec has 30 MW/m^2 peak heating
<awang>
Although idk if the formula for heating is valid at the altitude that peak heating was reached
UmbralRaptor is now known as NomalRaptor
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<awang>
Gah
<awang>
So I can get a lunar impact
<awang>
Barely
<awang>
It uses every drop of dv my TLI stage has
<awang>
And as far as I can tell it amounts to basically "point at the moon and burn"
<awang>
Because it's going nearly 3500 m/s at periselene
<awang>
Have to burn nearly a kilometer per second binormal to make it
<awang>
Pretty sure it's because I'm not trying to hit the moon at an ascending/descending node?
<awang>
Not sure how to time launches right for that though
<awang>
Don't think 819 m/s would be enough for a capture, either
<awang>
And of course I probably won't have a RemoteTech connection at TLI
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NomalRaptor is now known as UmbralRaptor
<awang>
lamont: And now MJ does cut off the upper stage
<awang>
I have no clue what is going on any more
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<awang>
And now MJ isn't cutting off the upper stage