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<wb99999999> good evening friends
<Bornholio> hey
<soundnfury> good morfternoon nines
<wb99999999> nice to see you guys, there's like nobody here the entire afternoon yesterday
<wb99999999> it was a bit creepy
<wb99999999> so is there a good middle point between RS-25 and RS-68?
<wb99999999> not so expensive but also not so...specifically tuned
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<UmbralRaptor> STME?
<Bornholio> I've always considered the 68 to be the end result of STME, STME did have better TWR thoguh
<Bornholio> though
<wb99999999> also better vacuum Isp
<wb99999999> I hate 68 not for its TWR but the atrocious vaccum Isp
<wb99999999> make it suck as a sustainer
<Bornholio> then must up chamber pressures :P = more cost = SSME
<wb99999999> this is sad
<wb99999999> STME is a good middle point for me tho
<wb99999999> correction: STME AS PROPOSED
<soundnfury> Notional Launch System
<wb99999999> har har
<wb99999999> this make sad and I'm not even American
<wb99999999> they had everything in place for a shuttle derived heavy lifter
<wb99999999> and they scratched projects after projects
<UmbralRaptor> Only so many hydrolox engines out there. I guess one could look at the HG3, LE-5, LE-7, and RD-0120.
<wb99999999> I wonder how much does rd-0120 cost...
<Bornholio> 14.3 standard vodka units
<wb99999999> actually RS-68, for its high thrust and high surface Isp can be very good for a boost stage
<wb99999999> especially if you cluster it...but you can't
<wb99999999> ablative cooling
<stratochief> they could've re-designed a more robust ablative nozzle, but that would be a cycle of engine development that would've stretched out rocket development time even further
<Bornholio> ooh a wild stratochief...would you push my ISRU PR and also my Dev RP-0 PR so I can fix the fixes
<wb99999999> wat
<stratochief> Bornholio: nein, sorry. haven't opened github in foreva for KSP, not getting into it tonight
<wb99999999> so you say "a wild [persons name]" in English too?
<Bornholio> .sad k, seven yes, pokeballs work in english also :)
<Bornholio> but i missed
<wb99999999> nah I'm just a bit stunned...cuz people say the exact same thing in the same context back to my home
<stratochief> wb99999999: just another pokemon reference, I believe.
<wb99999999> guess pokeballs are true global icon
* stratochief did not poke the mons
<UmbralRaptor> There is still time to.
<soundnfury> I didn't even realise that that was where that phrase came from. Hunh.
* UmbralRaptor points to Pokémon Go
<wb99999999> it is from pokemon indeed
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<blowfish> anyone know where interplanetary heat shields are in the new tech tree
<blowfish> can't seem to find them
<blowfish> also, do you really need to unlock the entire staged combustion tree to get the SSME? Seems a bit odd
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<taniwha> SSME is pretty darn advanced
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<blowfish> taniwha: yeah but I don't think it was really dependent on all the russian staged combustion research that branch of the tree contains
<taniwha> I suspect the idea is not so much it depending on the russian engines, but on the research cost
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<awang> blowfish: Are your MM changes in the dev branch of Sarbian's MM repo? Or do you have your own fork?
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<awang> blowfish: Also, UrlBuilder.cs seems to be missing from the repo?
<blowfish> awang: dev
<awang> Ah, ok, just making sure since I don't want to miss anything
<awang> Oh
<awang> Then it'd be case sensitivity
<awang> It's "UrlBuilder" in the csproj
<blowfish> ahh true
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<blowfish> I forget which file systems are case sensitive
<awang> I'm also completely blind, since I ran "find . -type f -iname "*build*"" and somehow missed TestUtils/URLBuilder.cs showing up
<awang> Linux ones are case sensitive by default, I think
<awang> Apple FS was supposed to be case sensitive by default, but idk if they changed that
<awang> Think those are the only ones
<awang> Windows, maybe, if they ever move off of NTFS
<blowfish> awang: just pushed a fix
<blowfish> though windows seems to have some trouble even detecting that it was a change
<awang> Pretty sure that's because Windows doesn't think it's a change?
<blowfish> yeah
<awang> Don't think NTFS is case sensitive by default, if at all
<awang> At this point I wonder if Windows can ever switch
<awang> Soooo many things are going to break if/when the switch happens
<blowfish> probably
<awang> Alright, compiled successfully
<awang> Sort of surprised that you have to write threading-related classes
<awang> C# doesn't have any?
<awang> tasks/futures/etc?
<blowfish> it has some
<blowfish> some are .net 4+
<blowfish> yeah, Task is .net 4+
<awang> Ah
<blowfish> at any rate, the stuff I had to write is relatively lightweight
<awang> Oh hey, KSP 1.4 might have .NET 4.6 and/or C# 6
<awang> What version of C# does KSP support?
<blowfish> I didn't need any advanced control or start/stop/cancel capability, just basic exception monitoring
<blowfish> awang: C# version is the compiler not the runtime
<blowfish> I've been using C# 7 in plugins for a few months, C# 6 for probably a year before that
<awang> Ah
<blowfish> all the new stuff they added is just syntactic sugar that gets compiled to the same IL as before
<awang> Oh
<awang> Guess I'm getting a bit confused with Java
<blowfish> well, a small number of the new language features require certain versions of the .NET runtime
<blowfish> for instance, in C# 7 they added simplified syntax for dealing with tuples
<blowfish> but that only works if the Tuple type exists, and it's .NET 4+
<blowfish> now, squad themselves have been stuck on older versions of C# because they use the Unity compiler
<taniwha> when did Apple's filesystem become case sensitive?
<taniwha> I know it wasn't 14 years ago
<awang> Newer C# support for Unity 2017.1 is supposed to be experimental
<awang> Which means that it's totally ok to use, right?
<blowfish> newer .NET support certainly is experimental
<taniwha> apparently, Unity forgets to put the right version into the csproj files, so you might run into issues
<blowfish> not sure how experimental it is
<taniwha> (with VS)
<awang> taniwha: Apple's new FS is case sensitive
<awang> By default on iOS
<taniwha> ah, recent
<taniwha> still, good
<awang> Used to be by default on desktop, too, but apparently they changed their minds at some point
<taniwha> for a very long time, it was insensitive
<taniwha> no option, either, I think
<awang> Looks like Apple's old FS did have an option, just no one bothered
<awang> Guessing it'll be the same for the new FS
<awang> Backwards compatibility strikes again!
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<awang> !tell blowfish Most recent startup with MM built from dev has 144540 patches applied in 975.325s
<Qboid> awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang> !tell blowfish No complaints about MM patch errors, though?
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<Qboid> awang: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Sarbian> !tell blowfish well you can have the tuple in Unity https://gitlab.com/HardlyDifficult/ValueTupleForDotNet3_5
<Qboid> Sarbian: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<awang> Holy code generation
<awang> Variadic generics could have been useful there, it seems
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<Bornholio> awang been fighting to get 1.3.1 dlls for ro running without crash on load, any idea what i might be doing that is in conflict?
<Bornholio> 3 New full releases for RO on CKAN: Solver Engines 3.4, RF 12.4.1, CLS 1.2.5.4
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<egg|zzz|egg> Sarbian: Bornholio: awang: RFC: deprecating 1.3.0 for Principia (will keep shipping 1.2.2 builds as long as RO hasn't moved to 1.3.1, and will keep making 1.3.1 builds, but can we assume RO will skip 1.3.0?)
<egg|zzz|egg> cc Pap ^
<egg|zzz|egg> cc Agathorn, too ^
<egg|zzz|egg> cc lamont of course ^
* egg|zzz|egg keeps forgetting people
<Bornholio> egg it sure looks like it will but, i have no power to push a release. Awang has done the most to get it moving there
<Bornholio> Merci pour l'information monsieur oeuf
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<Wrecker> Anyone ever have issues with the Geostationary Weather Satellite contract?
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<Bornholio> rokker i'm sad no pics from ya https://imgur.com/gallery/U3kh7E5 so i'll toss ya a bone
<Rokker> Bornholio: more like Boneholio
<Bornholio> lol
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