InertialRaptor is now known as UmbralRaptor
ProjectThoth has joined #RO
aradapilot has joined #RO
aradapil_ has quit [Ping timeout: 207 seconds]
<awang> !acr -add:GLOM Gross Lift-Off Mass
<Qboid> awang: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<awang> !acr -add:GLOW Gross Lift-Off Weight
<Qboid> awang: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<awang> soundnfury: I didn't know about yarchive, but now I need to read it all
<awang> lamont: I seem to have broken PEG again
<awang> Pitch program has negative numbers
ferram4_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<awang> Probably my fault since I may have been pressing launch into plane/window/etc. in the wrong order
<awang> Also, question
<awang> Does launching into planetary window also launch into the right plane?
ferram4_ has joined #RO
<lamont> i have never done launching into planetary window
<lamont> and always launched to plane of moon
<awang> Never mind then
<awang> And I can't launch into the plane of the Moon because Principia :(
<lamont> interplanetary trajectories are currently very broken anyway
<stratochief> I always shoot for a lunar plane orbit first, and ejections to other planets are usually fairly compatible with that
<awang> Seems Venus is at a low inclination relative to the Cape, too, since MJ wants to launch to an initial heading of 120something degrees
<lamont> realistically i don’t think that saves you a whole lot its likely a hyperoptimization, particularly compared to everything else wrong with the transfer planner
<awang> What's a hyperoptimization? Launching to the right plane?
<awang> And what's wrong with the transfer planner?
<awang> Honest question
Senshi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<lamont> some KSP patched conics / trajectory projection issue that i don’t understand
<lamont> it optimizes the projected directory down to a miss of nearly 0m but it never does an SOI transfer and the actual transfer misses the planet completely like its off by some very large dT
<lamont> getRelativeVelocityAtUT is lying to me by a lot
<taniwha> lamont: afaict, that's not a KSP function, unless you mean GetRelativeVel()
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<soundnfury> awang: :) once you've read yarchive, you'll (probably) know about as much as I do
<lamont> taniwha: thinko — getRelativePositionAtUT
<lamont> taniwha if you’re around i’m kind of stuck on this problem
<lamont> here’s the code that mechjeb uses to apply a burn to an interplanetary transfer orbit:
stratochief is now known as stratosleep
<lamont> and i’ve tried a bunch of different variations here: https://github.com/mumech/MechJeb2/blob/dev/MechJeb2/Maneuver/TransferCalculator.cs#L417-L418
<lamont> including validting that when both orbits are around kerbol and target_orbit is the orbit of e.g. moho that i can drive either getTruePositionAtUT or getRelativePositionAtUT to zero and i do not get another SOI patch for an encounter and the resultant orbit doesn’t encounter moho, but it looks like a proper transfer orbit to moho, just for some reason out of phase
<lamont> i’m suspicious that the `orbit.StartUT = t;` is doing something to make `orbit.getTruePositionAtUT(x[4])` off by t or something like that…
tty has joined #RO
<tty> ARE YOU MAD THOSE NIGGERS ARE TRYING TO STOP TRUMP??
<tty> EMERGENCY KKK AND NAZI COALITION MEETING IN #/JOIN
<tty> ON FREENODE IRC SERVER --IRC.FREENODE.NET--
<tty> FREENODE IS AWARE OF THE GROUP AND SUPPORTIVE BUT PLEASE
<tty> DON'T COMPLAIN ON #FREENODE.
<tty> ferram4_ aradapilot ProjectThoth bs606 qwertyy Rokker lamont Wetmelon Daz egg Bornholio Shoe17 BasharMilesTeg_ awang Majiir mkalte stratosleep acharles Qboid Raidernick xShadowx VanDisaster Sarbian Iskierka SirKeplan JPLRepo gazpachian Ezko_ taniwha soundnfury Kraken X Pap petti NCommander Addle
tty has left #RO [#RO]
<Raidernick> is that the same bot
<Raidernick> it has the same name
<lamont> finally i make the nazi cut… last time it ignored me, i feel so special now…
ferram4_ is now known as ferram4
<ProjectThoth> What's the point of these bots, really?
<SirKeplan> that's one heck of an odd bot
<awang> Yeah, that guy showed up once before
<awang> Same message and username, it seems?
<Raidernick> yes it is
<Raidernick> it shows up in several ksp channels here
<ProjectThoth> I'm a little insulted that it called me a member of the KKK.
<Raidernick> it needs to be banned
<Raidernick> it's always the same name
<SirKeplan> i thought it had different names sometimes?
<Raidernick> SirKeplan, it was tty the last 3 times
<Bornholio> Im a member of kerbal kosmonauts for krist
<ferram4> That should be a more broad ban, hopefully.
<SirKeplan> ahah
<ferram4> Then again, what do I know? I don't use ban commands often enough.
<lamont> the rr.com address is probably the fqdn of a dhcp ip
<awang> rr.com -> Roadrunner, I think?
<lamont> *!*~hlamposg@*.rr.com
<lamont> maybe that ^?
<awang> Is there a way to set up autoban on keywords?
<lamont> bots can do things like that
<SirKeplan> can we just have a ban on 3 letter nicks?
<Bornholio> lol
<SirKeplan> ok bad idea
<SirKeplan> :D
<Bornholio> pap wpuld be sad
<lamont> TheRealPap ✔
<Pap> #FakePap
<Bornholio> pap spacex is making me design my AC unit redundant Hoping i can post pics/cad render at least soon
<Pap> awesome
<awang> lamont: I'm seeing some odd inaccuracy with PEG
<awang> Targeted 185km x 185km, got 310.725km x 155.322km
<awang> It was a due east launch, so non inclination shenanigans involved
<awang> ~2.5 minute first stage, second stage burn was ~5 minutes
<awang> Second stage started at ~0.45 TWR, ended at 2.14
<awang> s/non/no
<Qboid> awang meant to say: It was a due east launch, so no inclination shenanigans involved
<lamont> my guess is thrust integrals or J^2 of Earth in Principia
<awang> Is J^2 that significant?
<lamont> although i would think J^2 wouldn’t matter as tgo approaches zero
<awang> I also used a pretty slow pitch program
<lamont> i think that is more for coasting IDK
<awang> 0.6 degrees/sec
<awang> So second stage started its burn at ~95km, apoapsis ~215km
<lamont> that is usually about what i test with
<awang> Have to do that because with a faster pitch program the second stage doesn't provide enough thrust to keep stable against aerodynamic forces
<awang> Oh, really?
<awang> I've been using 0.9 deg/s
<lamont> uh that’s quick
<awang> Although that's with roughly 5 minutes to orbit, so that might explain that
<lamont> yeah i typically use 0.4 to 0.7 ish
<awang> Oh
<awang> I guess I've been spending too much time with low time to orbit launchers
<lamont> even with a titan-2-esque launch i usually don’t go beyond 0.7
<xShadowx> ............so i think we should reconsider this whole free speech idea :P
<xShadowx> some ants just need to meet a shoe
<lamont> freeze peaches only applies to the government
<lamont> okay after writing that whole wall of text to taniwha i think i just fixed the transfer planner
<lamont> think it was the orbit.StartUT = t line that was buggy and i was getting trolled by a Mun encounter
<awang> Hmmm
<awang> lamont: Is autopilot with PEG ever supposed to go into "Unguided Gravity Turn"?
<lamont> yeah, if you do “start PEG after KSP stage” it definitely does, also if PEG can’t find a solution it may
<lamont> from the code it looks like that is the only time
<awang> Oh jeez
<awang> I had that enabled and didn't even realize it
<awang> My bad
<lamont> also looking at the code, if you see negative degrees that means that peg was not in PegStatus.CONVERGED
<awang> Must have clicked by accident
<awang> Hmmm
<lamont> i need to expose that better up front still, but the only way that happens now is peg isn’t stable
<awang> Would PEG not updating at all also fit that?
<lamont> not updating? that’s odd
<awang> I assumed that was why I was getting into negative degrees
<awang> The PEG pitch wasn't changing at all
<lamont> yeah that sounds like its not even running at all, so yeah, it would never become converged
<awang> Hmmm
<awang> idk then
<awang> I want to say that tgo may have been counting down
TM1978m has joined #RO
<awang> But I'm not certain
<lamont> yeah i cleaned up the state machine inside the controller but i really need to expose that properly in the UX
Wetmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
<awang> Tried another launch, got 267x169
<awang> PEG seems to be missing the point where the vessel "falls" back to the target altitude
<awang> So it's still burning when the vessel drops down below 185km
<awang> Also seems to be burning with a pitch near 0 degrees at upper stage ignition
<awang> So like it's overestimating how much speed it's going to get
<awang> Then trying to pitch up when it falls short
<taniwha> lamont: yeah, I suspect StartUT is messing things up.
<taniwha> or at least the initialization of it
<awang> soundnfury: Was it you that had issues with yellow planets?
<taniwha> lamont: however, its only use in Orbit seems to be GetTimeToPeriapsis
<lamont> awang: yeah that sounds like thrust integrals
<lamont> and yeah, taniwha i think that was doing something. that was just a hack since otherwise orbit.StartUT is zero and the loop wants to use that, so i just unrolled it a bit so that the first PatchedConics.CalculatePatch call uses t then it uses orbit.StartUT after that.
<lamont> i’m still seeing one transfer to moho having issues, but everything else seems to work well
<lamont> (and there’s a mun encounter on the way out that may be messing things up)
<lamont> oh is it possible i’m exceeding the number of conics?
<lamont> no, CONIC_PATCH_LIMIT = 6 doesn’t help
<taniwha> /maybe/, but placing maneuver nodes resets the counter
<lamont> yeah but my transfer orbit start kerbin, has a mun SOI, then back to kerbin, then sun, then its supposed to be moho
<lamont> so the sun orbit is the 4th conic past the burn, the moho one would be the fifth
<lamont> although in the calculationi don’t see the mun encounter either so that’s weird too
<lamont> i think the code just hates moho
<taniwha> there is one possibility: the solver is failing to find that orbit intersect
<awang> lamont: Anything I can do to help the thrust integrals out?
<lamont> nope
<awang> lamont: Also, does PEG allow for specifying argument of periapsis?
<awang> Even if it requires a coast phase
<lamont> heh yeah
<lamont> sorta
<lamont> the node executor does arbitrary orbit targeting
<taniwha> lamont: unfortunately, my newer code /does/ have problems with close roots (ie where the orbit intersects are too close: it loses one)
<taniwha> I didn't have the time to fix that, unfortunately :(
<awang> But PEG doesn't hook into the node executor, does it?
<lamont> awang: yeah it does, the code you’re using has PEG for doing node burns (part of the reason why i want to get the interplanetary transfer planner fixed is to watch PEG do accurate finite burns to interplanetary trajectories)
<awang> Oh wow
<awang> I wasn't aware PEG was capable of such things
<awang> I thought it was pretty much for ascent only
<lamont> taniwha: i’m not quite parsing “close roots” or “orbit intersects are too close”
<lamont> awang: nope, finite burns. ascents, on-orbit burn execution and landings
<awang> Wow
<awang> That's impressive
<awang> And really general
<taniwha> lamont: roots of the polynomial that gives you the closest and furthest points between the two orbits
<lamont> yeah, you keep trying to turn it into a trajectory optimizer, but its really all about finite burns
<lamont> ah
<lamont> i’m not using that API
<taniwha> you are
<taniwha> by using patched conics
<lamont> oh, you mean the intersection of the ship orbit with the mun orbit
<awang> I'm tempted to start learning whatever maths are necessary to try implementing those more interesting papers
<taniwha> lamont: yeah
<awang> But then I try to read the papers and give up :(
<lamont> yeah they’re hard papers
<lamont> okay, but why after putting the maneuver node down, does the core KSP code accurately find the mun encounter but the MJ code doesn’t?
Shoe17 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<awang> lamont: Why can't they be easy? It's like it's rock---...
<awang> Oh
<awang> Right
<lamont> rocket surgery
<lamont> i think i almost understand primer vector theory, but i kind of need a simple problem to solve with it first
<lamont> i might be able to replace the thrust integrals with an rkf45 integrator which would make PEG a lot better and would be a step in that direction, but modifying PEG can be weird (c.f. jaggers thrust integrals failures)
<awang> What kind of math do I need to learn to understand this?
<awang> I don't even know where to start
<awang> Do you know why the jaggers thrust integrals failed?
<lamont> graduate level calculus of variations
<awang> Seems odd if they were the subject of a paper but didn't help
<awang> ....Wonderful
<lamont> i suspect the space shuttle flew with different thrust integrals (the one in the technical note i cant track down) and not the jaggers ones because they were unstable, but that information is lost in the late 70s
<awang> Ah, I see
<awang> Have you tried contacting Draper lab and/or the author?
<awang> If you haven't, I'll get around to writing an email
<lamont> yeah i tried pinging them
<lamont> i seem to be bad at social engineering
<lamont> i just get /dev/null
<awang> Hmmm
<awang> I'm really not that good, either
<awang> But it might be worth a second shot
<lamont> go for it
<awang> Wonder if a .edu domain might help
<lamont> tfill@draper.com might be Thomas Fill who wrote the paper
<soundnfury> awang: yes, it was me that had yellow planets
<soundnfury> apparently it's a known issue with graphics drivers https://github.com/Kopernicus/Kopernicus/issues/130
<Qboid> [#130] title: Textures of Planet Packs Using Kopernicus are all Yellow | I am using KSP version 1.1.2, and have installed several planet packs that use kopernicus. Attached is a screenshot of the mods I'm using.... | https://github.com/Kopernicus/Kopernicus/issues/130
<awang> lamont: Alright, thanks! I'll let you know if I get a response
<soundnfury> converting all the DDS to PNG works around it
<awang> soundnfury: Yep, that's exactly what my planets look like
<awang> I'm on mac, though
<awang> And I could have sworn that it was working for me previously
<soundnfury> huh.
<awang> I'm in RSS, too
<awang> Screenshots: https://imgur.com/a/WePeQ
<soundnfury> Anyway, gotta zzz, it's 5AM :/
<awang> Night!
<soundnfury> ttyl!
ferram4 has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
SirKeplan has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
SirKeplan has joined #RO
bs606 has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
ferram4 has joined #RO
ProjectThoth has quit [Quit: +++out of cheese error+++]
aradapilot has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
Shoe17 has joined #RO
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Senshi has joined #RO
Shoe17 has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
ferram4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ferram4 has joined #RO
Wetmelon has joined #RO
TM1978m has joined #RO
qwertyy_ has joined #RO
qwertyy has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Senshi has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
ferram4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ferram4 has joined #RO
ferram4 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ferram4 has joined #RO
TM1978m has joined #RO
Senshi has joined #RO
Addle has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
Addle has joined #RO
Rokker has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
qwertyy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
aradapilot has joined #RO
aradapil_ has joined #RO
aradapilot has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
TM1978m has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Hypergolic_Skunk has joined #RO
stratosleep is now known as stratochief
<awang> lamont: Did you add "Path is null!!!1!!1!1!1111!11eleven"?
Rokker has joined #RO
Shoe17 has joined #RO
<awang> How do you guys launch to geostationary orbits?
<awang> Seems I have to fly this manually, and the precision needed is somewhat daunting
<awang> Like I know the theory
<awang> Time your burn so GTO periapsis is over the equator
<awang> Any tricks for finding the right timing?
<awang> Also, some way of seeing inclination of your orbit *after* your burn would be nice
<lamont> awang: no, that means the PEG ascent module is enabled and it can’t find the actual ascent manager
<lamont> you’re clicking on things in some order that is breaking things
<lamont> (but i can’t guess as to what you’re doing, otherwise i’d have fixed it)
<awang> lamont: Oh, no, I didn't see that in-game
<awang> I was looking through the code and saw that
<awang> Sorry for not being clearer
<lamont> ah, no i didn’t add that, its always been there
<lamont> it is an “if you see this its a bug” message
<awang> I see
<Sarbian> lamont: so, do I merge that PR ?
Rokker has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<lamont> Sarbian: yep, good as I can make it for now
<lamont> moho is just a hatefully little rock
<lamont> *hateful
<Sarbian> OK. Thanks for the work :)
<lamont> =)
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 198 seconds]
qwertyy has joined #RO
qwertyy_ has joined #RO
qwertyy has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
awang has joined #RO
awang has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
awang has joined #RO
petti has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
petti has joined #RO
Senshi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
aradapil_ has quit []
aradapilot has joined #RO
aradapilot has quit [Client Quit]
aradapilot has joined #RO
Rokker has joined #RO
awang has joined #RO
<awang> \o
ProjectThoth has joined #RO
ProjectThoth has quit [Quit: +++out of cheese error+++]
Hypergolic_Skunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]