egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ @egg I was re-watching Reach's grand tour video, turns out the jiggling is visible there too. Ex. https://youtu.be/7BDxZV7UD9I?t=166
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ that just looks like sensitivity to initial conditions; the prediction is frequently recomputed from the latest state, and the vagaries of the (different) integrator used for the (psycho)history suffice to nudge thing enough that after a handful of gravity assists you are not quite sure where you are
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ note that it is only the distant trajectory wiggling, not the early stuff
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Ah, ok.
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Though my instance is also of distant wiggling. However, there were no gravity assists involved
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ any other things that may be sensitive to initial conditions (encounters, WSB transfers, Lagrange stuff, etc.)?
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Nah, it's just a boring Hohmann transfer after coasting in LEO for less than an orbit
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ huh, that is weird
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Yeah, I promise I'll get around to flying that mission soon... got sidetracked designing stuff to build during the wait to the launch window
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pemberj starred Principia - https://git.io/JWxAO
<queqiao-> ⟨M​3tex⟩ Hey ! Today I’ll try my first docking on my save, I wanted to know if I should be aware of something different about doing a rendez-vous in LEO with principia ? Thanks in advance ^^
<queqiao-> ⟨K​itty OwO⟩ <3 i haven't personally messed with that much, but I wish you luck uwu
<queqiao-> ⟨M​3tex⟩ thanks i'll check this 😄
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<queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ I find rendez-vous with principia to be easer than with stock, once you get the hang of it. Very cool to plot a trajectory that will basically make you kiss your target 7 orbits in the future 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨M​3tex⟩ So u use the target view of principia to plot it ? Because i tried quickly but i don't really visualize how it works yet. Especiallay to see if i'm in the plan of my target
<queqiao-> ⟨M​3tex⟩ So u use the target view of principia to plot it ? Because i tried quickly but i don't really visualize how it works yet. Especially to see if i'm in the plan of my target (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨'​Airstrike' Ivanov⟩ hey guys, if i decide to try a non-RO/RSS install with principia, are there any good planet packs you guys could recommend?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Jnsq?
<queqiao-> ⟨'​Airstrike' Ivanov⟩ thanks!
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ definitely JNSQ
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ just bear mind mind that minmus will move inside the mun's orbit to remain stable
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ just bear in mind that minmus will move inside the mun's orbit to remain stable (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ And retrobop?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ probably that too
<queqiao-> ⟨'​Airstrike' Ivanov⟩ all good, i've been struggling with my RP-1 learning shenanigans so i felt like staging a non-RP1 secondary install, thanks again
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ that's the best plan. practice principia in a low stress environment, then bring all those skills back to RP-1
<queqiao-> ⟨'​Airstrike' Ivanov⟩ yup and keep messing around in RO learning to design rockets lol
<queqiao-> ⟨'​Airstrike' Ivanov⟩ yup and keep messing around in RO sandbox learning to design rockets lol (edited)
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<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ The trajectory history that principia displays is pretty useful
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ interesting route
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ well, it may not be useful, but is interesting at least
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ yeah I've noticed it too
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ not on the current version (mine glide but don't ascend) but in previous versions I've had body lift aerobees
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ It's really nice for X-Planes, you get to see the flight profile very nicely
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<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ does anyone here know orbital mechanics? like even the physics and maths behind it?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ literally no one
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ ah okay
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ not one person on here is a mathematician
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ or understands how orbital mechanics work
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ I was hoping someone recommend me some books to learn it
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ I'm joking. there are several 🙂
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ oh nicee
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ like..?
<queqiao-> ⟨V​lood⟩ rocket go up -> rocket come back down
<queqiao-> ⟨V​lood⟩ rocket go sideways -> rocket stay sideways
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ our premier mathematician is @egg but there are probably other specialities here too
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ ah yes the kerbal version of orbital mechanics
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ thanks!
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ As usual I will recommend https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/1123556005042970624
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (there is an English translation)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ @egg why do numbers go up when you add them?
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ oh okay thanks!
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ what are the maths prerequisites? I current know basic multivariate calc and know how to solve some ODE's
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the Capderou book is nice in that it really starts from the basics
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Is it on amazon?
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ oh nice, thanks
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Or where could I buy it
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ tells you about geometry of the ellipse etc., and while he does use the Lagrangian formulation he defines all that
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ The french titles is in that tweet, the English titles is *Handbook of Satellite Orbits: From Kepler to GPS*
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ use your favourite search engine or talk to your favourite librarian
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ thanks!
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ What if my favourite librarian isn't there?
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ go to your 2nd fav librarian
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Does he give formulas for calculating orbits?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ I know you can find the formulas on Wikipedia but it'd be nice to have them all in one place
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ @egg you're a mathematician?? Damien said you were(sorry for the ping)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I have an MSc. in mathematics
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ sustainably fished mathematics
<queqiao-> ⟨n​eamesis⟩ ooh nice what did you like specialize in?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ nothing relevant to Principia, but MSc. thesis here fwiw https://github.com/eggrobin/On-the-number-of-crossing-free-perfect-matchings-with-designated-left-and-right-endpoints
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ @Druze32 it's very expensive. if you have a proclivity for engaging in the wearing of eyepatches and keeping parrots then the books are available in certain places you can get hold of academic papers and books semi-not legally
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ @ZombieZilla define 'more realistic'
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ I believe apsis is the body agnostic term but I may be wrong
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Periapsis and apoapsis work for everything yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ But was just wondering if there was a mod that changed it
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ not that I know of
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tandecco⟩ I'm puzzled as to what this means
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tandecco⟩ On a semi-regular basis, there's always a question about "how to calculate orbits" or something on that line, but I've never understood what the actual question is
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from a conversation in another place, nabely #rp1-general, relocating here) here is the figure I was thinking of re. Молния attitude control for the 3-way solar panel/antenna/thruster constraint during manœuvres
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from Raushenbakh and Tokar, Attitude Control System of a Molniya 1 Communication Satellite/Systeme (sic) d’Orientation du Satellite de Communication “Molniya 1”/System der Lageregelung bei dem Naehriehtensatelliten Molnija 1/Система ориентации спутника связи “молния 1”, in *Automatica* 7, 1971).
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from a conversation in another place, namely #rp1-general, relocating here) here is the figure I was thinking of re. Молния attitude control for the 3-way solar panel/antenna/thruster constraint during manœuvres
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from Raushenbakh and Tokar, Attitude Control System of a Molniya 1 Communication Satellite/Systeme (sic) d’Orientation du Satellite de Communication “Molniya 1”/System der Lageregelung bei dem Naehriehtensatelliten Molnija 1/Система ориентации спутника связи “молния 1”, in *Automatica* 7, 1971). (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from a conversation in another place, namely #rp1-general https://discord.com/channels/319857228905447436/320197886614700033/867044645891473418, relocating here) here is the figure I was thinking of re. Молния attitude control for the 3-way solar panel/antenna/thruster constraint during manœuvres
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from Raushenbakh and Tokar, Attitude Control System of a Molniya 1 Communication Satellite/Systeme (sic) d’Orientation du Satellite de Communication “Molniya 1”/System der Lageregelung bei dem Naehriehtensatelliten Molnija 1/Система ориентации спутника связи “молния 1”, in *Automatica* 7, 1971). (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from a conversation in another place, namely #rp1-general https://discord.com/channels/319857228905447436/320197886614700033/867044645891473418, relocating here) here is the figure I was thinking of re. Молния attitude control for the 3-way solar panel/antenna/thruster constraint during manœuvres
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from Raushenbakh and Tokar, Attitude Control System of a Molniya 1 Communication Satellite/Systeme (sic) d’Orientation du Satellite de Communication “Molniya 1”/System der Lageregelung bei dem Naehriehtensatelliten Molnija 1/Система ориентации спутника связи “молния 1”, in *Automatica* 7, 1971). (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from a conversation in another place, namely #rp1-general https://discord.com/channels/319857228905447436/320197886614700033/867044645891473418, relocating here) here is the figure I was thinking of re. Молния attitude control for the 3-way solar panel/antenna/thruster constraint during manœuvres
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (from Raushenbakh and Tokar, Attitude Control System of a Molniya 1 Communication Satellite/Systeme (sic) d’Orientation du Satellite de Communication “Molniya 1”/System der Lageregelung bei dem Nachrichtensatelliten Molnija 1/Система ориентации спутника связи “молния 1”, in *Automatica* 7, 1971). (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Apoposeidion
* raptop stares at the accent
<raptop> uh, for what it's worth I can confirm that people absolutely use periastron/apoastron
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ after a while I think that ends up being the 'name for a group of animals' thing where no one actually cares and it's purely academic
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Pretty much
* raptop murders damien with 255 crows
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ The only ones I really want out of that is for Earth and the Sun
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ They're the most common anyway
<queqiao-> ⟨I​thirahad Ivrar'kiim⟩ Honestly if I were orbiting some other star I would still use 'perihelion'/'aphelion'
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ I would say "does it include formulas on how to calculate the deltav required for orbital maneuvers and calculating the shape of orbits" but that would've been too long winded
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ But because you asked, I had to say it
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ https://ebookbigsales.com/book-details.php?book=4hEu&msclkid=84c771dcab84117a1b9d113141b811c4 cheap and slightly less suspicious method of acquiring
<egg|anbo|egg_> though note that this lacks the slices of dead tree
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Isn't there 2 books though
<raptop> It's important to sacrifice a tree to properly obtain the knowledge of how to traverse teh æther
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ What does this bot do
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ I've always been mystified by it
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ There are many books
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Egg recommended that one
<raptop> Fail the Turing test depressingly often, apparently
<raptop> Druze32: The bot is a bridge to an IRC channel on espernet
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ ???
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ There is an IRC for Principia in addition to a discord and Chinese thing
<raptop> This server: https://esper.net/
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ What's an IRC
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ None of the QQ rooms are bridged anywhere
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the only thing chinese about @鹊桥IRC is its name
<raptop> Internet Relay Chat -- a chat protocol initially developed in the late 1980s, and still in use in various places in part because of how little it requires resource wise
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ How does it know what I'm asking 😟
<raptop> dsk;ljfag;ioare
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ I'm concerned!!!!!!!!
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ because
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I know, I was just telling Druze that there are three places to discuss this. I didn't say that they were all linked, but air guess I implied it
<egg|anbo|egg_> it
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ is
<egg|anbo|egg_> a
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Im gonna get assassinated!!!!!!
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ bridge
<raptop> There's a person at the other end, hence my frustration with yet again failing the Turing test
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ ...as in, you're talking to a _real person_, just that it's a person using a different chat platform
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Raptop, enter yourself to an AI chatbot contest
<egg|anbo|egg_> and there is an egg on both ends
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the same egg even
<raptop> 🥚🥚🥚
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ If someone explained that there was someone on the other end it would've made more sense right from the very start
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ But no, you rambled about some tech/Internet jargon that I didn't have a clue about
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ it's a chat program from back in the day
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ You could've said that!
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ One sentence and I would understand immediately
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ it took less than two minutes for your question « what’s an IRC » to be answered
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Not even that
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ it took less than two minutes for your question « what’s an IRC » to be answered… (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ How am I old for not doing coding/working heavily with computers?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Like yeah I use them
<raptop> Also, we answered your actual question first: " ⟨D​ruze32⟩ What does this bot do"
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Yeah but I didn't know what you were
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ So I didn't know what you said wasn't just random text or whatever
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ the people who remember and use IRC are old
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ anyway, whatever confusion there was has been cleared up, meta-discussion on whether you should read the answers to your questions is unlikely to be fruitful
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ Yeah alright
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ like when when my kid talked about 'cartoons from the olden days' like tom and jerry and catdog
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ or when people talk about the Matrix, which is still relevant today even though it released in the late 1900s
<queqiao-> ⟨B​aselet (He-Man)⟩ I'm not old, I just level up
<queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ And get weaker and lose stamina?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​aselet (He-Man)⟩ As a redeem for my years I bestow upon thee the gift of laziness.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​aselet (He-Man)⟩ She seems extra comfy today
<raptop> caaaat
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<queqiao-> ⟨S​paceman Spiff⟩ aww super fluffy kat
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<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ It's all action here.
<raptop> Cat appears to be soft
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<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ This was mine on the windshield wipers of the car last night.
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