egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ What am I supposed to check?
<raptop>
A line with just VESSEL or PART (with } above and { below) suggests problems
<raptop>
Note that a stock save may have some potatoroids floating about
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ raptop: vessels in Earth orbit or landed vessels are fine
<raptop>
hrm
<raptop>
I assumed that vessels in *any* orbit were at risk
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ actually checking for interplanetary flights by SFS haruspicy seems far more work than just starting KSP
<raptop>
egg: I guess you could look for SMAs larger than some size
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ yes, but that seems like more tedium than starting KSP
<raptop>
Obviously we just need to have an SFS file parser that prints a complete summary of what is going on in a game
<queqiao-_>
⟨Al2Me6⟩ At least that's a smaller :rabbit_hole: than a full MM parser
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin commented on pull request #3062: A correctly-rounded cube root. - https://git.io/JWgzO
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ I have some probes in solar orbit
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ are they going somewhere, or just chilling around the sun with no particular aim?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ are they going somewhere specific, or just chilling around the sun with no particular aim? (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Just chilling
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ the issue with interplanetary vessels is that the planets won’t be in the same place, but if you don’t care about that then this is not an issue
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Don't have interplanetary comms yet
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Also, any tutorials for TLI in principia?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ The OP of the forum thread also answers that question for that matter
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ also Windows vuole essere attivato apparently
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Hey, does the FAQ answer anything about if its recommended to play long term with RP-1 up to the point of Moon bases and maybe Mars bases?
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Cause at some point I heard that it can cause problems for long terms savefiles, but I wanted to be sure
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ hopefully by the time you have a base anywhere we will have solved #2400
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Wait, what's #2400?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ saves get large with long histories, making scene changes slow.
<queqiao-_>
⟨SpaceXenthusiast⟩ i feel like we should have a mysterious tone about #2400
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Crap, I downloaded the latest version
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[Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3065: Detect collapsibility changes and fork new segments of the history - https://git.io/JWzD0
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[Principia] pleroy pushed 8 commits to Entwurf [+0/-0/±36] https://git.io/JWaDK
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy 5157edd - Fork a new history segment when collapsibility changes.
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[Principia] pleroy 557c8a6 - All tests passing.
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy 3e63c19 - Comments and names.
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[Principia] ... and 5 more commits.
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Hey, does the tutorial for Mun transfer also work for TLI in RSS?
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ i think so?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Yes but bear in mind the inclination difference between mun and moon
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ To go to the moon you use a reference frame where the earth and moon don't rotate (Moon Centered Earth Aligned)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ To get to Mars you'd use MCEA
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ You may need MCI too to fine tune the flyby but for the transfer itself you'd use MCEA
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Also, how do you check for transfer windows for interplanetary stuff?
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ oh yeh i was looking for the reference frames thanks
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ mech jeb rendezvous planner
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ TWP will give you a rough estimate but don't trust the maneuver info
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Just use the date
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ What's TWP again?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Standecco⟩ You can use any tool you are used to using
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ mechjeb's the one for RSSRO
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ mechjeb's the one for RSS/RO (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Also, I was thinking of using the RSSflyby finder, but I'm not really sure of that.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Standecco⟩ Patched conics are good enough approximations for planetary orbits, so having Principia doesn't change interplanetary transfers in a meaningful way
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Oh, ok.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Standecco⟩ Although I believe this has been said various times in the last few days already
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Ok, installed it. Also, why is its latest version for 1.7.9?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Probably because no one has updated it, probably because it didn't need to be
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ um can anybody tell me to where to make the maneuver node for a course correction burn like at which point ?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Stonesmile⟩ There is no exact point, you have to play around with the sliders to see what happens
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ That depends what you want the burn to do
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ ok
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ i tought i would have to do at the descending/ascending nodes like stock
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ To fix inclination yeah that's generally advisable
<queqiao-_>
⟨TexSpace⟩ yeh course correction is mostly about inclination
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] eggrobin commented on pull request #3062: A correctly-rounded cube root. - https://git.io/JWr06
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Wait, I have a question, what are requirements for Ascent to TLI in principia?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Do you mean launching into the lunar plane? Or direct ascent?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ If you mean launching into the lunar plane, the current lunar inclination must be about the same as (or greater than) the latitude of your launch site
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Launching into the lunar plane, don't really know about direct ascent from Cape Canaveral
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Yeah, you just have to time the launch so that the lunar inclination is about the same as your launch site latitude, or greater than your launchsite inclination.
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Like manually??? Causes that's pretty much impossible for me since I suck at aiming with my eye
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ So, waiting until the Lunar precession is just right?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ If you want you can do that
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ @FabioKevin imagine your target is in an equatorial orbit. You're in a polar one. There will be a point where those orbits touch. You need to hit that point when your target does
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ It will be far less limiting to just do off-plane transfers
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ It's not easy
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ So, I just launch normally launch and then do a manuever, is that it?
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ So, I just launch normally and then do a manuever, is that it? (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Technically yes but the tricky part is when
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Don't mess with the inclination, just get it to the right AP and mess with the timing
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ If it takes you 3 days to reach the moon, you need to do your TLI before the moon reaches the intercept point
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ If it takes you 3 days to reach the moon, you need to do your TLI 3 days before the moon reaches the intercept point (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ If you're even slightly off you'll miss it
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ The Russian lunar probes used this method because of their too high inclination to get anywhere near the same plane
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ The Russian lunar probes used this method because of their too high latitude to get anywhere near the same inclination (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Luna 1, 2 etc
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ It's not easy but @Butcher has a script that you can use if you know how to use kOS
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Jesus christ, this is honesyly confusing me
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ the lunar precession is just right only for a short window every eighteen years, so that may not be your best option
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ That's about at hard as it gets
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ I would say RSS+RO sandbox is fine to learn Principia
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ How do I execute an off plane lunar intercept?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Or RSS/SMURFF
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ stupid bot
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ FabioKevin, did you ever play stock system KSP and go to Minmus without matching planes perfectly?
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Yes... I guess
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ It is like that, but now the difference is bigger
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ I also did use principia in the past in a JNSQ save
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Though, I got scared that at some point #2400 would bite me and kill the game, so I had to restart that
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ The problem is the same as if you were launching from baikonur without principia
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ From Florida, you won't ever be more than about 15 degrees off-plane, which is more forgiving
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ The moons orbit covers part of the earth's surface as it rotates. You are not in that area
<queqiao-_>
⟨Paculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ From Florida, you won't ever be more than about 15 degrees off-plane, which is more forgiving for the timing (edited)
<raptop>
What if I bulldoze Jakarta and put a launch complex there?
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ So, I guess I launch from current altitude without pressing buttons like launch into plane, launch into lan, and launch into lan of target. Right?
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ Yeah you launch, fly past the fanfiction folder, then all the toolbar buttons then you hit the moon
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Anyways man. I wish it looked silver instead of black
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Also, Just noticed. I don't know how to stage srb boosters alongside liquid fueled engines
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ So, I first stage the liquid fueled engine, then the SRB boosters, then the clamps. Right?
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ I think we are reaching the point where these are not Principia-related questions in the slightest
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Yeah, I just moved it right now
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Yeah, I just moved it right now to #mechjeb-pvg (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ It sounds like you have built a rather tall learning cliff for yourself, but in any case you are unlikely to get useful answers here when it comes to rocket support
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ and while everyone else tries to get to the moon, I'll keep bashing my head against the 3Mm downrange contract like some kind of neanderthal
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ it's been that long I've forgotten how to ksp
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ maybe your cat can teach you
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ ksp cat sadly passed away. the other one prefers minecraft
<queqiao-_>
⟨egg⟩ how do you know it doesn’t play KSP behind your back when you are asleep
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ 😱
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ To be fair, I kinda thought that Principia TLI would be the same as Munar transfer in JNSQ, so my fault
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ To be fair, I kinda thought that Principia TLI would be the same as Principia Munar transfer in JNSQ, so my fault (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ the issue is that your problem isn't a principia one, it's a lunar inclination one and exists without principia (for further north launch sites) than KSC
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Oh
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ the issue is that your problem isn't a principia one, it's a lunar inclination one and exists without principia (for further north launch sites than KSC) (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ it's as if you were launching from somewhere above the equator in stock or JNSQ, and trying to go to the moon
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ or like you launched from a northern launch site and wanted to get into an equatorial geostationary orbit
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ you can't launch directly into an orbit with an inclination lower than your launch site's latitude
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ and IRL and in KSP with Principia, the moon is nearly always at a lower inclination
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ this is the exact problem that the US and USSR had during the space race
<queqiao-_>
⟨Sir Mortimer⟩ Hence the polar injection shenanigans.
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Is there ways to check for the inclination of each probe sent to the Moon?
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Is there ways to check for the inclination of each probe sent to the Moon? Just out of curiosity from what inclination they had at LEO (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ IRL you mean? wikipedia often lists the inclination but that may just be for earth orbit satellites
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Yeah, IRL
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ if you google specific missions you can generally find info about them
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ and if you want to look really in depth you can look at the NASA NTRS server to find actual mission reports
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ I used some of those to recreate Pioneer I (it crashed IRL but in my game it didn't)
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ that was a direct ascent to off plane moon intercept
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ there was no launch script then so it was a LOT of MJ ascent guidance trial and error
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy opened pull request #3067: Emit a message with the compiler version at compile time - https://git.io/JWKgf
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Man, currently searching it
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ don't worry I'll be hitting you up for a step by step when I get to that point
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ Though I usually wait until the launch azimuth is between 80 and 100°.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ Just because it's more efficient in the lv.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ Just because it's more efficient for the lv. (edited)
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Yeah, maybe I should install kOS
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ Anyways, the LV I got didn't work as intended sadly.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ @Damien it's easy, run script, launch into specified orbit. Tli will be sometime during the first orbit, 3125-3150 m/s tangent transfer.
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ how 2 google kos
<queqiao-_>
⟨Damien⟩ wat is keyboard
<queqiao-_>
⟨FabioKevin⟩ But I already told that in #rp1-career-help
<queqiao-_>
⟨Butcher⟩ I normally set my flight plan to 3140 and run the time slider until I get a close approach.
<queqiao-_>
⟨M3tex⟩ Hey ! I have a question, maybe it's stupid ikd :/ I'm currently planning to send a probe to moon's orbit, but when planning my 2nd manoeuver to circularize, i see that my periapsis is getting lower after every orbit (like 80km/75/67/etc) and I'm afraid my probe would crash. Is it normal ? If yes, can someone explain me why it does that, and how can i fix it (if it's fixable)
<queqiao-_>
⟨M3tex⟩ Thanks in advance 😄
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy synchronize pull request #3067: Emit a message with the compiler version at compile time - https://git.io/JWKgf
<queqiao-_>
⟨M3tex⟩ Hey ! I have a question, maybe it's stupid idk :/ I'm currently planning to send a probe to moon's orbit, but when planning my 2nd manoeuver to circularize, i see that my periapsis is getting lower after every orbit (like 80km/75/67/etc) and I'm afraid my probe would crash. Is it normal ? If yes, can someone explain me why it does that, and how can i fix it (if it's fixable)
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy closed pull request #3067: Emit a message with the compiler version at compile time - https://git.io/JWKgf
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy pushed 3 commits to master [+0/-0/±3] https://git.io/JWKjM
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[Principia] pleroy 0c279c2 - Emit a message with the compiler version at compile time; this will help maintaining the Windows pipeline.
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[Principia] pleroy b29b0b1 - Only on Windows.
<queqiao-_>
⟨M3tex⟩ Hey ! I have a question, maybe it's stupid idk :/ (i'm new with principia) I'm currently planning to send a probe to moon's orbit, but when planning my 2nd manoeuver to circularize, i see that my periapsis is getting lower after every orbit (like 80km/75/67/etc) and I'm afraid my probe would crash. Is it normal ? If yes, can someone explain me why it does that, and how can i fix it (if it's fixabl
<queqiao-_>
⟨M3tex⟩ Thanks in advance 😄 (edited)
<_whitenotifier>
[Principia] pleroy 9391ded - Merge pull request #3067 from pleroy/Message Emit a message with the compiler version at compile time