egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
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<queqiao-> ⟨B​oatNectar⟩ Does principia model gravitational perturbation in low lunar orbit?
<queqiao-> ⟨r​sparkyc⟩ i think so
<raptop> yes
<raptop> principia models the masscons
<queqiao-> ⟨D​RVeyl⟩ What about the individual cons?
<raptop> The shear number of cons makes calculating all of them individually intractable
<raptop> obviously
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ those are some nice history lines
<queqiao-> ⟨t​ab2⟩ Just a quick question
<queqiao-> ⟨t​ab2⟩ Does principia crash your game if you use unsupported planet mods?
<queqiao-> ⟨t​ab2⟩ Does principia intentionally crash your game if you use unsupported planet mods? (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨t​ab2⟩ Nvm, I just read the github repository
<queqiao-> ⟨t​ab2⟩ It does
<UmbralRaptor> Please do not cause unnecessary apocalypses
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ What’s that comment in reference to? Saw a notif but there’s nothing here
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ This, I believe
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<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Implying that some are necessary
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<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ could mechjeb's maneuver planer/node editor be used for principia?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ No, the only way to create a manoeuvre with principia is through principia's planner
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ ok thanks
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ btw when im burning a manever in principia the blue maneuver node marker and the yellow velocity bar disappears is there a way to fix that?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ The node displayed on the navball disappears when the burn time finishes, no way to keep it round for longer
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ The node displayed on the navball disappears when the burn time finishes, no way to keep it around for longer (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ but mine disappears when i am half way through the burn
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Are you using the time provided by the planner?
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ arent the planner ones the yellow velocity bars are the same?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ No, principias planner, the stock yellow bar is not to be trusted
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ yes i use principia's planner
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ but i dont need the time i need the blue maneuver marker on the navball the disappears before i finish my burn
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ but i dont need the time i need the blue maneuver marker on the navball that disappears before i finish my burn (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ If the blue node disappears before you have finished the burn, then you are either burning with lower thrust than expected, or starting too late
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ what does it has to do with lower thrust
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ and btw when the principia planner says all maneuvers are in the past at that point the blue marker disappears
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ If you burn with a lower thrust, then the same manoeuvre would take longer, so the node disappears before you have expended the right amount of dV
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ i was not burning with lower thrust
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Then you were starting too late
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ but i was not burning with lower thrust (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ Did you plan as instant burn?
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ nop
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ instant impulse right?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ Yea
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ yes instant impulse and inertially fixed
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ Try using active engines mode
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ so i should not press instant impulse?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ I believe it is the issue here so yes, you should not.
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ and should i press inertially fixed?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ That depends I think.
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Instant impulse assumes a burn time of 0 sec, inertially fixed means 'do not steer during the burn'
<queqiao-> ⟨T​exSpace⟩ oh ok
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ If I set sqrt(2)*V1 to normal in non-inertial, will it give me 90 deg plane change?
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tonesmile⟩ Only one way to find out for sure; test it 🤷‍♂️
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ Damn it didn't, it actually steers...
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<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ you want binormal (in ECI) and not-inertial-fixed
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ you want binormal (in ECI) and not-inertially-fixed (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ normal is towards or away from the curvature radius, so up or down
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ (default KSP uses a very poor choice of notating orbit directions, where tangent -> (pro|retro)grade, normal -> radial, and binormal -> normal. it makes sense for patched conics where "normal" means normal to the orbital plane, but is incompatible with Frenet-Serret)
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ Got ya.
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ ~~Lemme just call it purple axis~~
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ If I set sqrt(2)*V1 to (upd fixed:) binormal in non-inertial, will it give me 90 deg plane change? (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ to be honest their use of normal is compatible with standard astrodynamics terminology (where you do tend to live on Kepler orbits); their « radial » is the really bad part though
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ when "radial" isn't along the orbital radius
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah ; normally radial is used for actually vertical-horizontal, and then you have an along-track vector which the horizontal velocity
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ cf. LVLH reference frame
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ I believe Children of a Dead Earth uses LVLH, but makes an equally egregious mistake where horizontal is named "tangent"
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ *cries*
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ So that if I make a non-inertial binormal `V1*alpha` I get a plane change of `alpha`, right?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ So that if I make a non-inertial binormal `V1*alpha` I get a plane change of `alpha`, right? Where initial orbit is circular with velocity of V1. (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Isn't the normal perpendicular to the tangent
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ So that if I make a non-inertial binormal `V1*alpha` I get a plane change of `alpha`, right? Initial orbit is circular with velocity of V1. (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨(​ᴇxᴘᴇʀɪᴍᴇɴᴛᴀʟshells)⟩ yes
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ So that if I make a non-inertial binormal `V1*alpha` I get a plane change of `alpha` (radians), right? Initial orbit is circular with velocity of V1. (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ In the limit where thrust goes to infinity and the plane change happens instantly, yes; as things get slower it gets messier, because you are not always on the equator where a change in direction is purely a change in inclination, so you start spending some of that towards a change in the longitude of the ascending node Ω (and obviously at the pole all your Δv goes towards that and none towards cha
<queqiao-> ⟨D​arthPointer⟩ That is what I need. I create fake plans for a dummy and get approximate launch azimuth with some arithmetics.
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<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin opened pull request #3076: Test passage in the compatibility paths, add a save by Reach - https://git.io/J4Rma
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin edited pull request #3076: Test passage in the compatibility paths, add a save by Reach - https://git.io/J4Rma
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ No cats here in a while
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Our cat ate pizza yesterday 😂
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ An entire regular sized pizza?
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ No just the tip, including bread. It was just margherita (that we got for free because we didn't order it), which is even more impressive
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ I guess the cat must be a cheese tomato bread enjoyer
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<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Cats like cheese
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Too bad it goes right through them
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<queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ So. Cat update. It appears the ferral had a fight and got an injury from that, hence the weird limping.
<queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ I'd like to know what the other cat looked like, because ours is huge.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #3076 commit - https://git.io/J4gPf
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] pleroy reviewed pull request #3076 commit - https://git.io/J4gPU
<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Baby bobcat?
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ A chonk will lose if it's too slow
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ A chonker will lose if it's too slow (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨S​tandecco⟩ Cat here took a turkey that had been left on the table and started eating it. We found it lying on the floor
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<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I was up by the fence to the pasture once eating a bread stick and turned my head to talk to someone and the mule took the bread stick right out of my hand