egg changed the topic of #principia to: Logs: https://esper.irclog.whitequark.org/principia | <scott_manley> anyone that doubts the wisdom of retrograde bop needs to get the hell out | https://xkcd.com/323/ | <egg> calculating the influence of lamont on Pluto is a bit silly…
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ its a start
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ That's redundant
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ I know it is, but it matters to me
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I think what Al2Me6 means is that « Earth Apogee » is a pleonasm
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (also, « speculated » ? Principia doesn’t speculate, what is this from)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ I just changed some localisation
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ That's _not_ the right way to implement that, I think...
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ yeah its not
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ But is this something you're interested in seeing, egg? I'd be interested in implementing it more properly (as a config you can load somewhere)
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ But is this something you're interested in seeing, egg? If so, I'd be interested in implementing it more properly (as a config you can load somewhere) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I have thought not about that but about something related a few times
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ namely, the queston of Earth-Centrered vs. Geocentric, or Sun Orbit [of the Earth] vs. Solar Ecliptic (though the abbreviations are sometimes EC, as in ECI, ECEF, and sometimes G, as in GSE for Geocentric Solar Ecliptic, which I call ECSA)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ namely, the queston of Earth-Centred vs. Geocentric, or Sun Orbit [of the Earth] vs. Solar Ecliptic (though the abbreviations are sometimes EC, as in ECI, ECEF, and sometimes G, as in GSE for Geocentric Solar Ecliptic, which I call ECSA) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ namely, the queston of Earth-Centred vs. Geocentric, or Sun Orbit [of the Earth] vs. Solar Ecliptic (though the abbreviations are sometimes EC, as in ECI, ECEF, and sometimes G, as in GSE for Geocentric Solar Ecliptic, which I call ECSA at the moment) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ namely, the queston of Earth-Centred vs. Geocentric, or Solar Orbit [of the Earth] vs. Solar Ecliptic (though the abbreviations are sometimes EC, as in ECI, ECEF, and sometimes G, as in GSE for Geocentric Solar Ecliptic, which I call ECSA at the moment) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (and Solar vs. Sun, obviously)
<raptop> Hrm, there are only 4 human languages, right?
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<queqiao-> ⟨K​itty OwO⟩ Define human language
<raptop> Languages that international standards are written in. Typically English, French, Russian, and Chinese
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I don’t think ISO uses Chinese, there are only three human languages
<raptop> Ah
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ alright, I give up. I was messing around in map_node_pool.cs, but I have no actual clue on how to change the apsis naming based off the current celestial body
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<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ @egg I was just poking around at the localizations... while I'm not too familiar with astrophysics terms in Chinese, I'm pretty sure https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/blob/master/ksp_plugin_adapter/localization/zh-cn.cfg#L225-L226 currently translates apoapsis/periapsis as 'apogee'/'perigee'.
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ (Though I also do not know the _proper_ translation)
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ (Though I also do not know the proper translation of the general term) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ that is a good point
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I am seeing 近火点 for Mars
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Indeed, since the format seems to be '进/远<abbreviated name of body>点', for a literal translation of "point near/far" from body
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ 火, of course, being the first character in the name of Mars, 火星, where the second character just means 'star'
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yup
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ ...cursory Wikipedia searching seems to indicate that the general terms are 进拱点 and 远拱点
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah, and the ominous table previously cited here is also found there https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E6%8B%B1%E9%BB%9E
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ They removed that table from the english page, weird
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Another problem here is of course that some discretion must be used, perigee, perihelion, perijove are more common than meow periapsis, but periareion is getting into « weird » territory, and let’s not speak of periposeidion
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ perileverrier
<raptop> perimeow, perinyaa, ...
<raptop> I vaguely recall seeing things like perikrone and pericytherion in the literature. The Mars ones probably also make sense (or at least I've seen lots of writers talk about aerosynchronous orbits and the like)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ You should open a bug for the mistranslation
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (and maybe another bug for tailored terms for various bodies, though that is probably going to sit on the backburner for longer)
<raptop> Also, Juno uses perijove instead of perizene
<raptop> hm
<raptop> If you can poll the users in those QQ chats on what they'd use (and I suppose to what extent they'd reference wikipedia vs other things)...?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I have unfortunately had to ignore some of the feedback I got on QQ, because people tend to have learned broken terminology from KSP; instead I have referenced the literature
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ but mostly I went for LEO literature
<raptop> aaaaaa
<raptop> Does this mean that they write I_{sp} in ALL CAPS?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (e.g. I had to push back very hard against anything sounding like « manœuvre *node* »)
<raptop> ah
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ I tried to look it up in 百度百科, but it seems like that page is copied verbatim from Chinese wikipedia (or is it the other way around?)...
* raptop continues to quietly aaaaa
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I have been pleasantly surprised by the quality of a number of 百度百科 articles on orbital mechanics
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (whereas I have tended to be unpleasantly increasingly unsurprised by that of their Wikipedia counterparts, even in English)
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] al2me6 opened issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlvcF
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ in the span of a few sentences it mentions that dynamical oblateness induces precessions, tells you which way nodal precession goes, and introduces the critical inclination (the one used by, e.g., молния satellites)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 百度百科的意思跟wikipedia一样吗？（对不起，我说中文得不太好）
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Uh yeah, it's basically the Chinese version of Wikipedia
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ is the quality comparable?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I suppose it varies, but as I said, I find the description of LEO orbital perturbations in <https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%BA%BA%E9%80%A0%E5%9C%B0%E7%90%83%E5%8D%AB%E6%98%9F%E8%BF%90%E8%A1%8C%E8%BD%A8%E9%81%93#2-2> better than anything I could find on <en.wikipedia.org>
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I suppose it varies, but as I said, I find the description of LEO orbital perturbations in <https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E4%BA%BA%E9%80%A0%E5%9C%B0%E7%90%83%E5%8D%AB%E6%98%9F%E8%BF%90%E8%A1%8C%E8%BD%A8%E9%81%93#2-2> better than anything I could find on <https://en.wikipedia.org> (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ maybe I can use it as a learning resource
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ for chinese
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ and orbital mechanics at the same time
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ multitasking
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<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I feel very monolingual. 😐
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I don't speak Chinese either for what it's worth, the research that went into the Chinese translation was heavily assisted by machine translation (to figure out what the papers or baike articles wherein I looked for technical terms were talking about) and by a Chinese friend who also dabbles in linguistics (for grammar and general idiomaticity)
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<queqiao-> ⟨v​evladdd⟩ I think I'll learn Chinese at some point in the future
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I need to get back to learning Spanish at some point.
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlfoR
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin edited a comment on issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlfoR
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ donde esta el Biblioteca. como esta el baño
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Useful stuff. 👌
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ gotta love knowing next to nothing in a language. Allows you to offend so many people 😂
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ "Where is the library. How are you the bathroom" 🤔
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ also I just figured out that using "better time warp"'s "slowMo" is a great way to deal with mechjebs tendency to overburn. 0.2 speed is great
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ Si
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ sadly I'm more scandinavian. I speak Faroese fluently ^^
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ @Elias es loco claro.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ Claro.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I go to Spain quite often but I am not the designated Spanish speaker, so I don't speak it much.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I mostly go to Gran Canaria
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I mostly go to Gran Canaria (still a part of spain) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Not been, Tenerife was nice (if you stay out of the southern coast tourist junk).
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it's great fun. amazing in the winter when most people are gone and the locals are wearing winter clothes
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ since apparently 24c is freezing
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ We went for Christmas, it was very pleasant.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ ooh same here!
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ wish I could have gone last Christmas.. but the *coof* said no
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Mostly winter in Mallorca now, at the mother in law's.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ ooh so your woman is spanish?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ British parents, grew up in Spain.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ It confuses people because she's looks like a tourist but speaks like a native.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ Gibraltar perhaps?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ or just mainland spain
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ well obviously not gibraltar if she speaks spanish
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Mallorca,
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Mallorca, her mother still has the family home. (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ sounds wonderful
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ They emigrated there in the 70s.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ from england?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ from England? (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Yes, kinda, her father was in the foreign office so moved around a lot.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ understandable
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ but yes. Do try to learn other languages. It's fun ^^
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ Anyways this is principia. not the nice stories of our lives
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 𒀀𒇷​𒂍𒁾𒁀𒀀
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ Anyways this is principia. not the nice stories of our lives (I see potentially angry egg) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ Anyways this is principia. not the nice stories of our lives (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (*a-li* É-DUB-BA-A, *ali bītī ṭuppi*, lit. « where is the house of tablets », but 𒂍𒁾𒁀𒀀 means « scribal school »)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ the heck is that
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ question about principia. Is this the best strategy I can do for precise manoeuvres?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ or am I using mechjeb wrong
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I use kos.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (*a-li* É.DUB.BA.A, *ali bītī ṭuppi*, lit. « where is the house of tablets », but 𒂍𒁾𒁀𒀀 means « scribal school ») (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ idk why. I always read that as "Kill On Sight" old gmod memories 🥲
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ House of tablets is wonderfully poetic.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ oh wait, there is a word for library, *girginakku*, a Sumerian loanword written 𒅎𒄘𒇲 IM.GÚ.LÁ
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ should I really use Kos for principia?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it's basically programming right?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ It is programming. You do not need it.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it's basically programming right? (not that anything is wrong with that. Just want to know if it's the only way where I don't eyeball it) (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ But you might be reduced to eyeballing it otherwise.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Unless lamont makes changes to mj for Principia users.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ the mj burns for principia *almost* work
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ They don't account for spool up
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ So you'll have a discrepancy related to that.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ so far, using 0.2 speed slowmo and just *abort manoeuvre* seems to work okay
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ for me it seems like mechjeb tends to overburn very hard
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ That's odd. I sometimes end up slightly over, which I think is partly due to rcs propellant use throwing the mass calcs off.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ like.. it'll send me out of the earths influence instead of a *slight* overburn on the moon
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I might be doing it wrong maybe?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ But it's usually in the region of 0-2 m/s
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ okay so maybe I should go through the steps I do. Then the obvious mistake might be found (if there is one)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I currently use a kos script which tracks amount of fuel burned. I'm wondering if I should track mass and user that to derive delta V.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I currently use a kos script which tracks amount of fuel burned. I'm wondering if I should track mass and use that to derive delta V. (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ (lunar impact)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ 1. Get to orbit. 90 deg incl
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ 2. Choose Plotting frame "MCEA"
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ 3. Flight plan. Add maneuvre.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ 4. add "Dv" and "t-inital" to get impact.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ 5. show on navball
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ 6. Mechjeb "maneuver node editor". Click "Execute next principia node"
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ anything wrong here that you two can see?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Looks valid.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ question. does tolerance do anything to the accuracy of the flight plan?
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ low tolerance - high accuracy
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ (and laggy game)
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ you'd be on the highest when doing orbital rendezvous for example
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ interplanetary transfers, not so much
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ as in the lowest tolerance
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ as in the lowest tolerance when rendezvous (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ as in the lowest tolerance when doing rendezvous (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ you'd be on the highest accuracy (lowest tolerance) when doing orbital rendezvous for example (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ so a high tolerance could explain why my things flew WAY past the moon?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ since it said it *would* hit the moon but due to high tolerance of mistakes, it did one and it's huge?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Default tolerance is a metre I think?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Which is fine for hitting the Moon.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ also.. how am I to understand the "1.9e-6 m"
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ i'm guessing the "m" is meters
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ That is 1.9x10^-6 m
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ i.e. 0.0000019 m
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Or 1.9 microns.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ so when having the tolerance set to *that* it will only have a mistake range of 1.9microns
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ alright. with a tolerance of 1.5e-5 m and 64000 max steps per segment. I'll try to see what the burn will do. I won't abort the execution of it and I'll show what it does.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ before
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ idk if this is wrong or not. but it's not burning exactly on the point
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ After (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ so it's very very off
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Does MJ start and stop roughly when Principia says it should?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ but principia seems to tell it to burn too logn
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ but principia seems to tell it to burn too long (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Are you starting planning (or rebasing) with the correct craft mass and egnines active?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Are you starting planning (or rebasing) with the correct craft mass and engines active? (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ good question
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ what'ya mean
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ like
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it is the last stage
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ and I'm not seperating anything before the maneouver
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ When you create the flight plan, do you then stage anything off? Because that will break the timings.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Or if you burn enough rcs fuel that could throw it. Rebase will correct things if so.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah check that the engines are active
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it is using the engines to do the burn
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ so start the engines (with throttle at 0) before planning
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I do ^^
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it might be the rcs as you guys said
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Something is off since MJ says 3151 m/s in 161.4s
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Something is off since MJ says 3151 m/s in 161.8s (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ But principia is saying 163.7s for 3125.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ in any case, open-loop guidance has its limits, so you should probably keep an eye on map view and cut; but this is oddly wrong, yes
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ maybe the engines have weird curves that MJ takes into account?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Principia should agree with MJ / KER to within 0.1s if things are calculated correctly.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ re. « house of tablets », the term is literal too, in https://www.cairn.info/revue-d-assyriologie-2001-1-page-39.htm they look at those and they have walls made from old exercise tablets
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ > The huge numbers of literary and scholarly tablets in House F strongly suggest that it functioned as a school as well as a house. But House F was a tablet house in another sense too: the tablets were built into the very floors, walls, and furniture of the rooms.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ but « where is the library » would be better translated as 𒀀𒇷​𒅎𒄘𒇲
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ weird
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ could it be a mismatch of versions?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Unlikely, it's more likely you need to rebase
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ versions of what ? that doesn’t make sense
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah incorrect initial state sounds like the problem
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ hit rebase and see if the flight plan changes
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ well. Usually many errors happen due to not having updated things together properly. or so. Just thought "what if"
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ okay so I'll restart my thing
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Versions of mathematics, duh
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ no, we don’t know anything about RO versions or MJ versions or any of that
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ and conversely these mods cannot have assumptions on a mod that updates faster
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Also, can someone explain simply the difference between tolerance and steps
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ tolerance = allowance for error; steps = allowed workload
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ tolerance = allowed error; steps = allowed workload (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ okay so. Redo
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ if you reduce the tolerance, things get more accurate, and if the step count does not change, things do not get slower, instead you get less of it
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ if you increase the step count, things get slower and you get more of it
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I would normally plan a TLI at default tolerance and 4000 steps.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ if you increase the step count, things get slower and you get more of it with no change in accuracy (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Ok, I understand it now, thanks
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ okay so.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ all seems good
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it seems ok.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ what seems OK
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the same discrepancy that @Butcher mentioned is still there, right?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ so nothing about that is anymore OK than last time
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ is it?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ hm
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ well look at the numbers Principia is reporting
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ is this after hitting « Rebase » ?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ just hit it now.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah MJ and Principia are in disagreement on Δv
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ anything to do with MJ tolerance?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ That's possibly valid - MJ has a higher time than Principia.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ hm
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Previously MJ had more Δv in less time.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I wonder if it;s boiloff.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ oh right
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I wonder if it's boiloff. It;s a kerolox engine. (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I wonder if it's boiloff. It's a kerolox engine. (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ but that is even weirder then, how was MJ reporting something different
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ 43 minutes with no mli would boiloff a fair amount of LOX.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ so i should rebase right before the burn?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ N2O rcs, that's unusual.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Yes.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ oh.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ When you have non-storable propellants, that's always a good idea.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah, Principia doesn’t know if weird things happened to your rocket (and it certainly won’t auto-update your flight plan, that would be obnoxious)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ maybe we should pop up a warning if the mass is noticeably off
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ I might be useful to have some orange warning text.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 🍊
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ damn. forgot to turn on rcs and i'm not in comms.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ so it just passed the burn
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ redo
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I'm guessing spamming "rebase" as orients itself with the RCS is recommended too
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ it's not like the "DO NOT PRESS" button
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Rebase just updates the prediction - it won;t fix the burn to be "correct".
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ but i'll know if its way off?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ You need to rebase and then adjust the burn to yield the desired result.
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Yes.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ currently very
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah and if you have a highly sensitive flight plan (say the Reach thing) rebasing might wreck it into uselessness
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ central
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ clicking rebase a few times and it's still good
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Yes, if you have an unbalanced probe then orienting for MCCs can be a real pain because everytime you spin you throw the flight plan off.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ MCCs ?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I don't think i'm unbalanced
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ @Elias I notice that the burn time has reduced by 0.5s which will help there.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ ah, mid-course corrections
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ mid course corrections.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ sorry for bad lighting but yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I tend to refer to those as TCMs
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ trajectory correction manoeuvres?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yup
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ manœuvres, even :-p
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ god
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I only have æ
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ My keyboard lacks a key for œ
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ not oe
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yes, but I am the œuf
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ guess what guys
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ It is usually transcribed as "oe" these days due to computers being lame. :-p
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ engine failure
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the joys of RP-1 :D
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ Is it still goin where its meant to go?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ With one engine, I doubt it, the thrust looks too imbalanced.
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ well it's only a simulation
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ so it's fine
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ If its over engineered enough it could still make it...
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ i tend to have engine failures on in sims due to having experienced functional crafts being *not functional* due to some unknown reason
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ over engineered? I tend to call it *safety net*
<queqiao-> ⟨§​κyℓαr ♀⟩ 😛 thats my style uwu
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ time to see if it'll work..
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I know I can just cut off the engine before it burns too far and all that. But I'd rather not have the issue in the first place
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ rebase 5 seconds before burn says it's still A Ok
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ too little this time hm
<queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ The MJ node thing looks like a stock node?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ hm?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I don't understand
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I clicked the Principia thing
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ i was off by 22 dv ish?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ I went into the vc. If any of you would like to jump in and maybe see it streamed. Might be easier to see the issues
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ using an RCS manoeuver fixed it though
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ but it feels very un reliable
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 22 m/s ?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ that seems more reasonable given that Principia node execution does not take spool-up into account
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ yeah
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ that's after I clicked rebase right before the burn and it was fine
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ that is < 1%, for open-loop guidance I would not expect much better
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ for finer execution just eyeball the cutoff
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ rebase and removed the manoeuver from nav ball and re-added it
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ probably removing and re-adding manoeuver doesn't do anything
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ probably removing and re-adding manoeuver on navball doesn't do anything (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ what do you mean by stock though?
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ yeah. I'll do that. Good thing i got the 0.2 physics speed for those manoeuvers
<queqiao-> ⟨E​lias⟩ thanks for the help ^^
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlvcF
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlvcF
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2944: Fix #2910 - https://git.io/JOvOL
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2897: Number manœuvres idiomatically, tweak time-related words - https://git.io/JtD7o
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2894: do a small change to make the describe text more precise - https://git.io/JtoJ5
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2892: Fix some untranslated strings - https://git.io/Jtrlh
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2887: 𒁹𒍣𒊬 has provided feedback - https://git.io/Jtwtw
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2886: Adjust orbit analyser terminology - https://git.io/JtVte
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2881: Change the punctuation of the Chinese text to consistently use ideographic/full width characters - https://git.io/Jt2TO
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2879: Reformat the C# code after the localization work - https://git.io/JtuNy
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2857: localization for principia(have some problem) - https://git.io/JLjv0
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #2910: Some strings are untranslated in Chinese. - https://git.io/Jqny1
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #2909: The « mission duration » label in the orbit analyser is cut off in the Chinese translation - https://git.io/Jqny8
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2890: Adjustments to flight plan terminology - https://git.io/JtwQu
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2882: Add localization for some messages that were missed in the first pass - https://git.io/Jt2FE
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2880: Fix small localization glitches - https://git.io/Jtzhk
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled pull request #2884: Fix a few localization bugs - https://git.io/Jt2xi
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin opened issue #3075: Consider body-specific terminology - https://git.io/JlJso
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #3075: Consider body-specific terminology - https://git.io/JlJso
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin labeled issue #3075: Consider body-specific terminology - https://git.io/JlJso
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 @ZombieZilla I have opened https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3075, but as previously mentioned this is probably going to sit for a while
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Oh, nice
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ I don't know why I haven't been hired by Microsoft yet
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin edited issue #3075: Consider body-specific terminology - https://git.io/JlJso
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (bear in mind that we are unlikely to accept PRs unless we have talked beforehand about the way it should be done—though if you just want to play with your local build go right ahead of course)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Microsoft code would have 1 option in the switch statement: "sorry, something went wrong, please run this 'useful' troubleshooter"
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] al2me6 commented on issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlJRD
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] al2me6 edited issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlvcF
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Growflavor commented on issue #3064: possible steady memory increase potentially leading to KSP instability/slowness/unusual texture lighting/slow crash - https://git.io/JlJ0n
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] Growflavor edited a comment on issue #3064: possible steady memory increase potentially leading to KSP instability/slowness/unusual texture lighting/slow crash - https://git.io/JlJ0n
<_whitenotifier> [Principia] eggrobin commented on issue #3074: Incorrect zh-cn translation of 'apoapsis' and 'periapsis' - https://git.io/JlJz2
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 CNKI to the rescue for obscure technical terms <https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3074#issuecomment-884148713> :-p
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<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 re. 进 vs. 近, I guess the explanation is pinyin IME?
<queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Indeed.
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Since I don’t actually speak Chinese I use 笔画 instead, which leads to an entirely different flavour of typo : p
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Since I don’t actually speak Chinese I use 笔画 instead, which leads to an entirely different flavour of typo :-p (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 斥, 近 same thing, right :-p (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ @Al2Me6 re. 进 vs. 近, I guess the explanation is pinyin IME? (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 斥, 近 same thing, right :-p
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 斥, 近, same thing, right :-p (edited)
<raptop> note to self, don't misread 近 as 左
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<queqiao-> ⟨B​enji⟩ 近 - someone running to the left out of a building?
<queqiao-> ⟨B​enji⟩ 左 - Nice place to have a picnic?
<raptop> left, near, basically the same thing
<queqiao-> ⟨B​enji⟩ ohwow, was not too far off with left?
<raptop> (Incidentally, running across Chinese text when you're learning Japanese is a weird experience)
<raptop> 左 == left, and I forgot that 近く == near
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ ex: 火星是离太阳第四**近**的行星 (mars is the fourth closest planet to the sun)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ or indeed 近地点, near-ground-point, perigee
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ yep
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 点 is like point, dot, tick mark
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ as in 点钟 (o'clock, like the tick marks on a clock)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 地 is essentially just ground or land
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ How about 近土点?
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ al2me6 probably knows more than I do
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ I don't know Chinese at all
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ if I had to guess I'd say the meaning is closer to “apogee" than 近地点 which is more broadly applicable to apoapsis
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ if I had to guess I'd say the meaning is closer to “perigee" than 近地点 which is more broadly applicable to apoapsis (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ if I had to guess I'd say the meaning is closer to “perigee" than 近地点 which is more broadly applicable to periapsis (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ maybe 近太阳点 would correspond to ”perihelion" for example
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ that's just a guess
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ although 土 is moreso broadly descriptive of the concept of ground, whereas 地球 is more specifically the earth
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ al2me6 knows way more than I do (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ al2me6 knows way more than I do, ask them (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ so this is really outside my league of knowledge
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ no 近地点 is the term for perigee, periapsis is 近拱点, see https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/issues/3074
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ got it, thanks
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 近土点 is Saturn periapsis, apparently
<raptop> Yeah, blame it on Saturn being the earth star
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ saturn is 土星
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yup
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ mercury is 水星 interestingly (water star)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ so the near-earth-point is not the perigee, it is the saturnian periapsis, this cannot possibly be confusing :D
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 对
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Wtf how, I though '土' was 'soil/earth'
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ it is!
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ the planet names in chinese are very old
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ but Saturn is earth-star 土星
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ they named them after elements
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Ah
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ But then what's the sun?
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 太阳
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ taiyang
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the minor planet names are not so old, but they are quite fun
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ for sure
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ just the ones which were observed first
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ 1 谷神星, 2 智神星, 3 婚神星, 4 灶神星… https://zh.wikipedia.org/zh-cn/%E5%B0%8F%E8%A1%8C%E6%98%9F%E5%88%97%E8%A1%A8/1-1000
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ 维斯塔
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Ok, why is Plutonium just 钚, while Pluto is 冥王星
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ 维斯塔 - Vesta (edited)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ it has the metal radical in it, and possible the 不 is phonetic
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ for "Plu" tonium (bu)
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ 冥王 is essentially the roman version of pluto, so it's moreso the meaning whereas in chemistry the pronunciation is similar to the symbol
* raptop assumes that 冥王 more or less corresponds with Hades/Pluto (the god)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ I see
<queqiao-> ⟨r​ocketman⟩ I love 矮行星 (dwarf planet)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ more generally the minor planets tend to be transpositions/descriptions of the namesakes rather than transliterations
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ thus 灶神星 hearth-goddess-star rather than 维斯塔 Vesta
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Sometimes this gets weird, 254 Augusta is 帝王星, even though it was named after <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auguste_von_Littrow>, not Gaius Octavius Thurinus (Cæsar Augustus)
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Why does Principia have a separate build for Chinese users?
<queqiao-> ⟨Z​ombieZilla⟩ Is it just for localisation?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the build is the same, it’s just uploaded both to Google Drive and to 腾讯微云 because the former may require a ladder
<raptop> [said ladder must be made of nonflammable materials]
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<queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Over the great wall of fire
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<queqiao-> ⟨F​alcon⟩ Question, in the changelog for Grossman does the fused multiply-add instructions improvement to the mod also work with AMD? or only Intel chips?
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ It should work with AMD as long as it is an AMD chip that has FMA3
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (and as mentioned, it’s only there on Windows)
<queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ so apparently Piledriver and later
<queqiao-> ⟨F​alcon⟩ So Ryzen is gucci then
<queqiao-> ⟨F​alcon⟩ alright
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<queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ This mission looks fun