09:36 <queqiao-> ⟨A​shnoom⟩ @egg perhaps something like this might be an idea for your repository 'issues' where people download the master repo and expect it to work?

09:36 <queqiao-> ⟨A​shnoom⟩

09:36 <queqiao-> ⟨A​shnoom⟩ https://github.com/FFTW/fftw3

11:08 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Yes that would work perfectly

14:37 <queqiao-> ⟨S​ir Mortimer⟩ Doubt it would. KSP users don’t have a reputation for reading (or even noticing) warnings.

15:01 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ after all, we do link to the right place in the README

15:01 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ and if you just head to the releases page, you won’t see the readme

15:02 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ as for changing the description to « this is not how you install this » like that repo does, we are getting into « renaming the mod to « This is not how you install Principia » » levels of silliness

15:03 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ A « nope » DLL will do the job just fine

15:03 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Plus, you get to be snarky with how you say "nope" 😆

15:03 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ without randomly taking over bits of potentially useful description/naming

15:09 <queqiao-> ⟨N​obody⟩ You could either add the real GameData files to the release or add a text in bold like `Click here to download this release` with a link to the real download page.

15:11 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I *could* do all sorts of things, but a lot of them are either annoyingly intrusive or more work in the release process ; why would I, when I can just add a « nope » DLL in a corner as a one-off thing ?

15:14 <queqiao-> ⟨N​obody⟩ well, its the usual way of providing release builds of projects on github to add them to the release. It isn't even hard or anything.

15:14 <queqiao-> ⟨N​obody⟩ I am not saying you have to do anything but this sounds like the most reasonable way of circumventing the issue you pointed out there.

15:15 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Yes I am aware of how mods usually are, as previously mentioned we don’t attach things to the release for a reason

15:16 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ See https://discord.com/channels/319857228905447436/480397772248580098/854059785849798676 sqq.

15:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ In any case, if you pick up Principia and don’t look at the README and then at the concepts page linked therein, you are not going to go anywhere

15:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ and if you start filing bugs, they are going to be actively obnoxious if you don’t follow the atypical process

15:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ so this is not really an additional hurdle for the user

15:18 <queqiao-> ⟨N​obody⟩ github releases have download counts somewhere in the public api but you obviously wouldn't get any additional tracking like how many chinese users you have (usually this is considered a positive by open source people).

15:19 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I don’t know whether I am usual nor an open source person, but this was quite actively useful to that userbase

15:19 <queqiao-> ⟨N​obody⟩ github releases have download counts somewhere in the public api but you obviously wouldn't get any additional tracking like how many chinese users you have (usually this is considered a positive thing by open source people). (edited)

15:19 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ were it not for that, I would not be in the relevant QQ groups, and we wouldn’t have had a Chinese translation

15:20 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ Installing the mod is the entrance exam for playing it

15:21 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ It's not rocket science

15:23 <queqiao-> ⟨N​obody⟩ You might have noticed that many people prefer software/websites free of analytics/tracking and targeted advertisement but you are right that this is certainly not "usual" in the general public.

15:23 <queqiao-> ⟨N​obody⟩ You might have noticed that many people prefer software/websites free of analytics/tracking or targeted advertisement but you are right that this is certainly not "usual" in the general public. (edited)

15:24 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ for that particular crowd there is a sentence right at the end of the README

15:24 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ What's the QQ group for?

15:24 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ What is this discord channel for?

15:24 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ Cat pictures

15:24 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Exactly. The QQ groups are the same, but in Chinese

15:25 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Oh, so Chinese authority approved Discord?

15:25 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (or English when they talk to me because I don’t speak Chinese)

15:25 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ It’s also that everyone there is on QQ

15:26 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ You could be on QQ but are not, why are you on Discord instead and not there ? The same reason why most of them are not on Discord even if they have a ladder, those to whom they want to talk are there not here.

15:26 <queqiao-> ⟨S​paceman Spiff⟩ Speaking of, there are some kittens at my brother’s camp.

15:26 <queqiao-> ⟨S​paceman Spiff⟩ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/480397772248580098/862716364036374528/image0.jpg

15:29 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ You could make the source tree principia file act as a mod that shows a slideshow off egg pictures after loading the game.

15:30 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Or cats, but Sarbian did that already

15:30 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ And have a section in the FAQ that tells you that you downloaded from the wrong place

15:31 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ Or, patreon only releases

15:31 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ Never mind the eggs, make some cheese

15:31 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ OnlyCats releases 🤣

15:32 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ If you know what I mean

15:32 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ See what's inside my shell on only eggs

15:33 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ principia(cracked version).zip

15:34 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ On yolked solar system only

15:35 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ Subscribe to see egg get laid

15:36 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I think this discussion has run its course, to the extent that it had much merit to start with

15:36 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Is it available for download?

15:37 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ ModuleManager has nyancats

15:37 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I believe you can pass a command-line flag to get nyancats by default

15:37 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Oh, I thought you meant loading screen pictures

15:37 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Yeah, I get nyancats

15:37 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ 🚢 🍞

15:38 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Yeah, I get 🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍🌈🐱. (edited)

15:41 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ The question of course is, since I bridge a matrix room and an IRC channel to here, why I am not bridging a QQ room too; to which the answer is 1. technically, that I am not aware of a way to do this 2. the language barrier makes that questionably useful (most of the chatter on QQ is in zh obviously)

15:42 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ The question of course is, since I bridge a matrix room and an IRC channel to here, why I am not bridging a QQ room too; to which the answer is 1. technically, that I am not aware of a way to do this 2. that the language barrier makes that questionably useful (most of the chatter on QQ is in zh obviously) (edited)

15:43 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ I feel like China might not be too happy for that to happen as well, because they generally are against foreign internet platforms.

15:55 <queqiao-> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ Not RO related, but when will Principa be supporting stock KSP 1.12.1?

15:58 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ Soon™️

15:59 <queqiao-> ⟨D​amien⟩ And by soon I mean when it's ready

15:59 <queqiao-> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ Ok thanks

16:00 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yeah we are waiting a bit to see if things stabilize and if they decide to fix what they broke

16:03 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ btw how *do* you install principia?

16:03 <queqiao-> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ I’m just starting to learn the ropes with Principia and so practicing on stock before using it in my RP-1 play through

16:03 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/wiki/Installing,-reporting-bugs,-and-frequently-asked-questions#installing-principia

16:04 <queqiao-> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ Aside from the tutorial on your wiki, are there any good video tutorials that you can suggest?

16:08 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ thanks, i couldnt actually find a tutorial on how to install for some reason

16:09 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ sorry, should have been here already but I'm too lazy

16:10 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ plus after all the roasts off egg, my confidence has dropped

16:10 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ why does it look like principia installs the same as any other mod

16:10 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ yes you just need to download from the correct place

16:11 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ (from the forum, *not* the github)

16:11 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ (from the forum, *not* the github source tree) (edited)

16:11 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ the GitHub README works too

16:11 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ i installed from the github earlier though and it seems to work

16:11 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ this

16:12 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ what you shouldn’t do is go to https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/Principia/releases/tag/2021071001-Grossmann and click `Source code`

16:12 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ because, surprisingly, that gives you the source code, not the binaries 🙃

16:13 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ maybe if you compile it correctly it could work

16:13 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Yes, see that sentence at the end of the README

16:16 <queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Compiling Principia is a chore if you don't have it already set up.

16:16 <queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Also quite taxing on the computer.

16:16 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ tell me about it

16:16 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Yes I could see it be quite a bit slower to compile than my 10kb C++ programs

16:16 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ Yes I could see it being quite a bit slower to compile than my 10kb C++ programs (edited)

16:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ my machine in Zürich runs the benchmarks daily

16:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ generally the IRC bridge times out around that time

16:17 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Do you rent time on aws or something?

16:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ no, we do have an Azure VM for CI but the benchmarks run locally

16:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ and the *nix builds run on Azure pipelines

16:21 <queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ IIRC it's about ten minutes to compile on this machine.

16:21 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ can you install it from the google drive

16:22 <queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Yes.

16:22 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ does that work properly

16:22 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ yes that is what you are supposed to do, as the instructions say

16:23 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ why did you say forums though

16:23 <queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ It's basically, "can you follow written (rather than video) instructions?" 😉

16:25 <queqiao-> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ Playing around with this and am only being shown the AN/DN info for the predicted orbits; how do I get the predicted PE and AP to show?

16:25 <queqiao-> ⟨D​ruze32⟩ oh wait it turns out i had installed it from the google drive the whole time lol

16:25 <queqiao-> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ Attempting a simple Moon orbit

16:26 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ you only see apsides with respect to a body that doesn’t move in the chosen frame

16:26 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ so you need a something-centred frame, to get the apsides with respect to something

16:33 <queqiao-> ⟨N​ewfieStargazer⟩ Ok got it now

16:55 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ oh right, you’re only compiling the plugin, not the tests

16:55 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ and not running the tests

16:55 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ otherwise ten minutes seems absurdly fast

16:59 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ How long do the tests take?

17:00 <queqiao-> ⟨B​utcher⟩ Oh yeah I don't normally run the tests for my own uses.

17:22 <queqiao-> ⟨A​l2Me6⟩ Can you please enlighten me… I didn’t even know it’s possible to compile without tests

20:17 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ running the tests is something you have to actively do, so most likely it is the reverse, you don’t even know about the tests :-p

20:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ I forget how long the CI takes lately, certainly in excess of 20 min a build

20:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (and then the benchmarks take hours)

20:18 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (benchmarks + diurnal tests)

20:19 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ we have tests that run on every build pre-merge (the default), diurnal tests that run every day, and secular tests that are only run manually

20:20 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ (things like « generate the TRAPPIST-1 system initial state » are secular, in fact we rented a much more powerful machine on Azure for that)

20:20 <queqiao-> ⟨e​gg⟩ Some Xeon with ALL the cores

20:21 <queqiao-> ⟨P​aculino (ŝi/ri/she/they)⟩ Well, all those cores get it done much faster

21:03 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ 20 minutes for a build must suck, especially if there was a typo, sheesh

21:09 <queqiao-> ⟨Z​eusbeer⟩ How long would it take to compile with one of those 128 thread threadrippers 🤔