raptop changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.12.3 http://bit.ly/ksp112update | Rules: http://tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Current JWST explosion date: 2021-12-25-12:20:00Z http://esawebtv.esa.int/ and https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIBaDdAbGlFDeS33shmlD0A
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<Althego> Engineering a spin launcher for Ortus City | KSP 1.11.2
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<Althego> ohayollie
<raptop> ...is it morning there?
<Althego> yes
<Althego> or wait
<Althego> no, about noon
<Althego> 13h
<raptop> ah
<raptop> sleepy zombie
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<DysonSphereEnthusiast> is it possible to build a dyson sphere around the sun in ksp?
<Althego> i think it was done already
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> uh
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> wait really?
<Althego> i think i mixed two videos. one was a dyson swarm around the sun, and an other was a sphere around kerbin
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> the swarm amkes sense for the sun, and the sphere around kerbin
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> with their relative sizes and all
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> of course it's dennis
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> that man's crazy
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> awh he cheated with a custom star smh
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> this but moar boosters
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> why was the wheel sideways 😭
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<darsie> .
<flayer> hey darsie
<darsie> hi flayer
<darsie> bbl, making breakfast ...
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> its
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> 1;25
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> IN THE MORNING
<darsie> 1026
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> imagine living
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> on the other side of the planet
* darsie imagines to be alive.
<darsie> I often eat muesli as last meal, too.
* darsie gives DysonSphereEnthusiast a new enter key.
<flayer> how dare you eat non-traditionally, darsie!
<Althego> how many last meals did you have? :)
<darsie> All of them were my last meal.
<Althego> you must be shrödinger's cat
<darsie> flayer: I'm courageous in such regards because my neural network was trained in a hippie commune when I was a child.
<flayer> nice
<XXCoder> ;mission
<LunchBot> XXCoder: You try to build a stealth battlecruiser. Your rocket suddenly stops and thinks: "To be or not to be?".
<XXCoder> thinky ship that can hide very well. scary.
<Althego> "I'd give real money if he'd shut up. " (mccoy)
<darsie> "real money" :)
<XXCoder> for a given value of real
<bees> XXCoder: You research the possibilities of demon summoning in the field rocket propulsion. Your capsule safely ejects and lands, but the headless spaceplane goes on to terrorize small coastline communities all around KSC for months.
* DysonSphereEnthusiast screenshots an nft
<darsie> Are there mods for "high" altitude orbital decay?
<Althego> coincidentally this is quite new https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mJXv5OBel8
<Althego> How to Find ALIEN Dyson Spheres
<darsie> Analyze the spectrum of stars.
<darsie> For exclusive or added IR emissions.
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> .
<darsie> I'm confident we'll colonise this and possibly other galaxies.
<Althego> if we dont die in the next 100 years
<darsie> With Dyson spheres.
<darsie> There's a chance of nuclear war, but it's unlikely to extinct humans. Human extinction level asteroid impacts a rare, too.
<darsie> covid is weak.
<XXCoder> other galaxies is extremely hard
<Althego> nuclear war, global warming, disease, doesnt matter. we are getting into an uncomfortably bad situation
<Althego> and it doesnt matter that humanspecies survive, if knowledge is lsot
<Althego> lost
<darsie> The way to do that is to transmit uploaded human minds or AI to them with lasers/radio. Aliens can pick them up and run tem.
<darsie> Yeah, nuclear war would probably destroy a lot of data. That would just delay it, though.
<darsie> And once we're Kardashev type III lots of civs will watch us.
<darsie> Especially look for such transmissions.
<darsie> Just imagine how madly we'd scan a K3 galaxy if we found one.
<darsie> Do you think we'd run transmitted aliens?
<darsie> Someone sure would, eventually, even if it was highly outlawed.
<darsie> If I'm too much off topic, just tell me. I've been banned from libera ...
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<Althego> zombanwa
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<flayer> i'm tired Althego
<flayer> will you make me lunch?
<Althego> no
<flayer> boo
<Althego> the zombie doesnt let me take a nap
<flayer> how rude
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<darsie> What does it say?
<Althego> that stabilization thingie opened
<Mat2ch> there is a trim tab on James webb
<darsie> the flap
<Mat2ch> like a sail to balance the photon pressure
<Mat2ch> that is so wild...
<darsie> yeah
<darsie> :)
<darsie> They used solar pressure to stabilize that telescope with broken RW.
<Althego> kepler
<Althego> tess is catching up with its count
<Althego> maybe even surpassed it by now
<Althego> remember when there were only a hanfdul of exoplanets?
<darsie> no
<Althego> me neither :)
<darsie> :)
<Althego> the wheresebb page talks about deployable tower assembly as the next steo, but i guess these are shuffled around because of manual commands
<darsie> IMHO they must deploy the tower before deploying the solar shield.
<Althego> ok so the whereswebb page is probably not updated
<darsie> Hey, it has temperature.
<darsie> ppl may think the distance to Moon/L2 is displayed proportionally, but it's on a time scale, not distance.
<Althego> it is written there: days
<Althego> normally that means time
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<darsie> still
<Althego> ah okay now they updated it
<Althego> so maybe it is manual there too
<darsie> So the Moon should be closer to L2 than on a time graph.
<darsie> hmm
<darsie> or?
<darsie> Webb slows down.
<darsie> Sun-Earth L2 = 151.1 Gm
<darsie> Moon SMA = 384 Mm
<darsie> L2=393 LD
<Althego> LD_LIBRARY_PATH
<darsie> what?
<Althego> starts with capital LD :)
<darsie> mhm :)
<darsie> Can solar sails keep a ship in L2? Well, that depends on TWR ...
<Althego> the gravitatinal acceleration because of the sun at that distance is quite small
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<Spork_Witch> langrange points are a bit funky, i think a solar sail wouldn't have the directional control needed for stationkeeping
<raptop> I want to say that you can design a solar sail for directional control (presumably you're "tacking" or something)
<Spork_Witch> to an extent, and in a vacuum it doesn't behave like a wind-water ship (the keel in the water serves to counter some of the angular force and redirect it to forward momentum), so it's all just relatively simple geometry, but because the force is so little, I don't think it would have the degree of control needed. Not to mention, how do you make significant changes to the angle of attack on the
<Spork_Witch> sail? solar sails are necessarily MASSIVE, and presumably would occlude the telescope itself, defeating the point
<Spork_Witch> also, apologies, i misread you originally, thought you said "tracking something." Tacking is actually what I was talking about with the interaction between the water and the keel. It works because the shape of the keel, exerting force against the water, tends to make the ship want to maintain its direction and heading; you don't have that in space, angling the sail would actually introduce
<Spork_Witch> rotation, and you'd need to counter that with RCS
<Spork_Witch> (providing the missing counter-force that the water would normally apply to the keel)
<Spork_Witch> (though I think more often tacking is used to describe when you want to move in a direction that's 90 degrees or more off from the direction of the wind)
<darsie> reaction wheels could help turn the sail.
<darsie> They don't have to be huge.
<darsie> Or massive.
<darsie> Or, do we need that much thrust?
<darsie> What are we fighting? The Moons gravity?
<darsie> Jupiter?
<darsie> angular momentum of the halo orbit?
<darsie> The Webb does have a solar sail.
<Spork_Witch> i'm trying to find information about delta-v for solar sails, but not finding much with actual numbers
<Althego> delta v for solar sails is potentially infinite
<darsie> Actually, the sun shield is a solar sail, and small tilts could do something.
<darsie> If the sun shines infinitely.
<Spork_Witch> yes, but over a given period
<darsie> We could go a tiny bit closer to Earth than L2 and balance the rest with the Sun shield.
<Spork_Witch> my instinct is that we'd need a massive sail relative to the rest of the craft, and that ion engines would probably be far more efficient for the mass, unless we need that effectively-infinite acceleration
<Spork_Witch> more info about tacking: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWIX6SUh-nc
<Spork_Witch> (more about the logic, than the physics, but still edifying on what I was talking about)
<Spork_Witch> here we go, this should be much more along what i was looking for: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqwb4HIrORM
<darsie> HD? 360p?
<Spork_Witch> it was 2008, cut them some slack :P
<Spork_Witch> it's not like we've had any revelations in the relevant physics since then lol
<raptop> I guess we found the Higgs since then
<Spork_Witch> i did say RELEVANT physics lol
<raptop> heh
<Spork_Witch> as in how tacking works in sailing ships
<darsie> Spork_Witch: Ok, you were telling me about the keel of sailboats with that video.
<Spork_Witch> and this video DOES cover exactly what i was talking about
<Spork_Witch> yes
<darsie> Which you did before in IRC.
<Spork_Witch> have i? I think this has only come up in this immediate discussion lol
<darsie> 21:24:55 <Spork_Witch> to an extent, and in a vacuum it doesn't behave like a wind-water ship (the keel in the water serves to counter some of the angular force and redirect it to forward momentum), ...
<Spork_Witch> sailboats can tack because of the interactions between the sail, wind, keel, and water. the same concepts can't work in space
<Spork_Witch> yes, that was part of this immediate discussion, heh; sorry, your phrasing made me think you meant some time ago lol
<darsie> I can sail.
<Izaya> didn't that japanese solar sail thinger have LCD panels on the sails that could change reflectivity to change orientation/
<darsie> Well, I spent 5 minutes watching the video.
<Spork_Witch> Izaya: that's a clever idea
<darsie> Expecting it would be about light sail navigation.
<Spork_Witch> well i was mostly pulling the videos to explain why "tacking" isn't really applicable in a vacuum. i haven't been finding much that's detailed on solar sails so far
<Izaya> there's a book about this stuff; Solar Sailing: Technology, Dynamics and Mission Applications by Colin Rovert McInnes
<Spork_Witch> i found some stack exchange stuff, but it didn't go into numbers like i wanted :(
<darsie> Also solar sails can be turned by shifting the CoG.
<Spork_Witch> did just find this, and he's usually pretty good. hopefully it hits some of the details we're talking about https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8umNI8gtlA
<raptop> Lotta papers on IKAROS on ADS, though I'm not sure on which ones are relevant
<raptop> Izaya: this seems relevant to that changing the reflectivity https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2016AdSpR..57.1147H/abstract
* raptop resets "days since last use of sci-hub" counter
<Izaya> I should really add a flight recorder to all my vessels, then I could output CSVs and figure out the typical descent path for my regularly used crew ferry craft and plan deorbit burns to have them splash down next to the KSC
<raptop> :D
<Spork_Witch> or just use Trajectories? lol
<Izaya> I mean I could do that
<Izaya> but I don't have it installed
<Spork_Witch> it's imperfect, at least for most of my craft, but it's definitely help me get things much closer, and i can generally glide (and sometimes have enough leftover fuel for some powered flight) to get where i'm going
<Izaya> I do have kOS installed though, so if I know how descents typically go I can plot descents that require no input from a given orbit
<Spork_Witch> desert airstrip is tricky, but if I feel like waiting for daylight at the KSC, that's easy to hit reliably
<Izaya> in hindsight a square 100km orbit would've been more useful
<Izaya> currently measuring with a 71.5km orbit
<darsie> My orbits are all conic sections, not square.
<darsie> Well, in KSP they're all ellipses, I think.
<raptop> ;mission add You slice up a cone with a knife to find your orbit.
<LunchBot> raptop: Added mission: You slice up a cone with a knife to find your orbit.
<raptop> KSP's finite SOIs mean you sometimes are on escape trajectories with ellipses, but it definitely has hyperbolae
<darsie> Ice cream cone?
<raptop> ;mission del You slice up a cone with a knife to find your orbit.
<LunchBot> raptop: Deleted mission: "You slice up a cone with a knife to find your orbit."
<darsie> ok, I thought about that.
<raptop> ;mission add You slice up an ice cream cone with a knife to find your orbit.
<LunchBot> raptop: Added mission: You slice up an ice cream cone with a knife to find your orbit.
<darsie> I scream cone ;)
<Spork_Witch> lulz, he accidentally says kepler space program, when he meant Kerbal Space Program 2 lol
<Izaya> kessler space program
* Izaya gets taken out by a stray bolt
<Izaya> hmm, fins are getting toasty, maybe I should move them up. Looks like the RCS thrusters are happy this time though.
<Izaya> yup, there they go
<DysonSphereEnthusiast> Q
<Spork_Witch> when i see your name all that comes to mind is "the ringworld is unstable!" lol
<Izaya> Are there mods that add small control surfaces? Ones that would suit the basic fins?
<Spork_Witch> Izaya: i'd think the various scaler mods would be better suited to that use-case. Rather than making whole new parts, it lets you scale existing parts (and their mass and effectiveness scales appropriately as well)
<Izaya> Probably the idea.
<Spork_Witch> i have enough trouble finding the parts i want sometimes with the stock parts list lol
<Izaya> I was using B9PW for a while too, those worked well. I don't have anything like that in my current setup though, all very specific parts.
<Izaya> or rather, all designed parts
<Izaya> I ended up using scaled engines a lot when I had scaling mods because they were stronk
<Izaya> Okay, wings are gone, replaced with grid fins. Pod no longer flips over at the end of re-entry and the safety margin is greatly improved.
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