<Izaya>
Going to add some spar modules down the bottom and maybe move the fixed modules down there, under the rings, then use the space up top to dock spacecraft.
<Althego>
spar modulees. space station with retail store
<Izaya>
What else will the tourists do while they're there? :p
<Althego>
but in reality spacex is not really good for high delta-v, except maybe falcon heavy
<Mat2ch>
But they are cheap.
<Mat2ch>
Very very cheap.
<Althego>
no, somewhat cheap
<packbart>
still rather expensive
<Althego>
possibly neutron will be cheaper
<Mat2ch>
They could go cheaper, but why...
<Mat2ch>
Neutron will take years to fly.
<Althego>
i doubt they can go much cheaper
<Althego>
even if raptor fails, they could just sell it to ula, good enough for them :)
<bees>
and if starship fails, then they could just make a reasonably-sized 3-stage rocket and call it a day
<bees>
would cover 100% of all current launch market
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<darsie>
Maybe Spacex makes it price just a bit under the competition to make maximum profit.
<darsie>
bees: F9 fairing is too small for some payloads and F9 goes to the pad horizontally. Some payloads must always be vertical.
<Althego>
is the increased fairing only for the heavY?
<FLHerne>
darsie: Both of those are already being addressed for NSSL 2 launches
<Althego>
and they are developing a vertical integration method
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<sandbox>
1337
<Althego>
guh
<Althego>
40k watchin reaper with wine and lollipop
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<HobGoblin>
https://imgur.com/a/tSO5COb both designs have the aerodynamic center below the center of mass, yet one tends to fall bottom(heat-shield)-first, while the other falls chute-first... why?
<HobGoblin>
(that's before deploying chutes I mean)
<Althego>
maybe drag is not in that
<Althego>
the bottom one is chute firsT?
<HobGoblin>
no, the one with the crew + science modules falls chute-first
<Althego>
also in the top design the sc jr would blow up
<Althego>
despite of the heat shield
<HobGoblin>
the bottom one (just the capsule + chute) falls correctly
<Althego>
interesting
<Mat2ch>
HobGoblin: try rotation the craft a bit
<HobGoblin>
the crew+scjr one starts correctly, heat-shield first, at altitudes about 70-45km, and then forcefully flips over backwards
<Mat2ch>
you never fall totally vertical to the aerodynamic forces
<Althego>
i think of it as a bug. typically if the angle is not perfect the sc jr almost instantly heats up, but if you move a bit it instantly cools down. that would be impossible for heat, so i consider it a bug
<HobGoblin>
Mat2ch, I keep SAS on to Surface-Retrograde
<Mat2ch>
SAS is not perfect
<Althego>
maybe if you changed the crew ccompartment and the sc jr
<HobGoblin>
Althego, scjr survives in my gentle approach
<Mat2ch>
the top design is aerodynamically unstable and the slightest degree off will turn it around
<Althego>
both are unstable
<Althego>
at least based on the image
<Althego>
but now that i think of it, the top has the indicators further apart
<Mat2ch>
it has
<HobGoblin>
so you're saying the further apart they are, the more unstable it becomes?
<Mat2ch>
and the drag vector is different
<Mat2ch>
yes
<Althego>
the more stable. but in your case, in the wrong direction
<Althego>
this can be even bad for airplanes, if they are too stable you just cant turn, whateve you do
<HobGoblin>
hmm, so if the aero center was above the gravity center, it'd go the way I want?
<Althego>
yes
<HobGoblin>
interesting, I'll check it out, thanks
<Althego>
that is why i suggested changing the order of the cabin and the sc jr
<Althego>
because the cs jr is very light
<HobGoblin>
nodnod
<Althego>
ideally it should be on the top, but that looks dumb, so i usually dont do t hat
<HobGoblin>
but then will the crew be able to transfer between the pod and the cabin?
<Althego>
i think they can
<Althego>
but some peopel self impose rules that they separate crew compartments like that
<Althego>
dont separate
<HobGoblin>
ok, I'll check it out. Thinking of adding some fins too
<Althego>
you can add some fins on top, that helps, but they make you unstable during launch
<HobGoblin>
ah, true
<Althego>
although in practice a few of the smallest fins can be ok
<Althego>
on top below the chute i usually put batteries probe core and such, and there i can easily fit the smallest fins without them burning up during descent
<darsie>
The capsule is bistable.
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<Althego>
in reality
<darsie>
in game
<Althego>
it was well explained in one of the original apollo explanation videos
<Althego>
that if the capsuel enters cone first it would stay like that
<Althego>
and that would be deadly
<darsie>
mhm
<darsie>
The crew can turn it.
<Althego>
no
<darsie>
in time
<Althego>
it had only roll control once separated from the service module
<darsie>
If a crew member turns one way in the capsule, the capsule will turn the other way.
<Althego>
i guess technically possible but not really feasibler
<Althego>
kerbals as control gyros
<darsie>
irl
<darsie>
May be slow, but will work.
<darsie>
I think there was enough space to roll in the capsule.
<Althego>
yes, but i was refering to kerbals as landing gear. so why not gyrosú
<darsie>
They can't walk laterally to adjacent ladders.
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<HobGoblin>
problem with the fins: they're extremely intolerant to heat ;-/
<darsie>
It's not a bug, it's a feature :).
<darsie>
They burn off when no longer needed :).
<Althego>
yes you can use it like that
<darsie>
May cause some tilt.
<darsie>
Hmm, you want them for entry.
<HobGoblin>
;-)
<HobGoblin>
yeah I was using them for re-entry
<HobGoblin>
they do stabilize, while they last
<HobGoblin>
a wee bit of a spin helps with the heating for a while
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<HobGoblin>
how can I transfer crew when the Hitchiker Storage Container's right-click menu-window takes up the whole height of the screen? The "Transfer crew" button is on the very bottom, and when I click it it opens the Crew window way below the screen (and I'm unable to move it, trying to drag it doesn't work)
<HobGoblin>
oh ok, I managed to collapse some of the hitchhikers
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<darsie>
HobGoblin: try moving the window on any non active part, not just the title bar.
<HobGoblin>
darsie, that causes scrolling within that window
<HobGoblin>
it might be because I set UI scale to 150%
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<darsie>
Ike is cheating. I have a Duna oribt and when I get near Ike, it switches to Ike orbit.
<raptop>
It's bribing various spheres to gain influence
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<Mat2ch>
And a sat launch by SpaceX costs around 50 millione USD. Which is pretty cheap.
<Mat2ch>
(all my relay setups tended to desync pretty fast. And since there's no way to do automatic station holding I gave up in the end :(
<umaxtu>
I still haven't gotten around to learning the robotics
<darsie>
Ike got me again.
<darsie>
Mat2ch: I sync the orbital period of my relays with KER. Once they are very near I turn normal/antinormal and only a tiny bit pro/retrograde so I can adjust the orbital period very finely.
<darsie>
Like, I watch the period displayed by KER.
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<packbart>
I do that, too, to get the periods within a few ms. but then I "cheat" and use the Station Keeping mod to synchronise SMA with a bit of monoprop/fuel (or just edit the save)
<packbart>
that keeps the constellations stable for decades
<darsie>
A few ms/orbit should be pretty stable.
<darsie>
Maneuver failed. Docking port controlled.
<flayer>
i am enjoying my vertical lift off plane
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<flayer>
its still hard to land at zero horizontal speed tho