Deddly changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.10.1 KSP2 NaN | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | "chanlog" to see what people are talking about | Soyuz on Sunday
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<TheFootDoctor>
Hi future friends
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<raptop>
46 seconds
<umaxtu>
really feeling the friendship
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<a_flayer>
i'm tired
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<Deddly>
What for?
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<Althego>
hehe voodoo electronics vs curiousmarc, the voodoo electornics are winning
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<Guest69325>
S O
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<Guest69325>
I'm attempting to complete the docking tutorial and whenever I burn retrograde to target (exactly when directed) I only end up with my perfect intercept (2km or less) becoming a hugely eccentric 400km orbit
<Guest69325>
of all the things in the game, this is the single most difficult process I have attempted
<packbart>
hm. then you're burning too much ;) I don't really have a good answer but I think you'd need to switch the navball to "target", then burn target-retrograde until the speed reads about 0m/s
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<FLHerne_>
Guest69325: When is directed? You should only try to zero your velocity with the target when you're effectively at the intercept
<FLHerne_>
And the resulting orbit will then inherently be near-identical to the target's, because you have the same velocity and about the same position
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<Guest69325>
packbart...that's exactly what I described doing. my speed relative to target omly dropped by 500m/s
<Guest69325>
flherne_ the tutorial says burn retrograde at 15km away, I'm unsure how to determine this distance
<Guest69325>
without measuring speed of target and the time it takes to orbit I know of no way to check your distance from target
<Guest69325>
also someone in a forum commented on using mechjeb and watching it rendezvous and dock to learn, I added it and it appears to interpret "rendezvous" as "crash into planet 2000km from target"
<umaxtu>
if you've selected the rondevouz target as the target, you should see a pink/magenta indicator that shows the direction and distance to the target
<Guest69325>
i can see that being a result of my lack of familiarity with mechjeb, I found that I had to take over for it when I tried to use the ascent assistnace
<umaxtu>
I was talking about vanilla
<Guest69325>
the magenta indicator shows my separation at target orbit, but that number never seems near to the actual separation of the vessels
<Guest69325>
so am I, I only tried mechjeb to try to learn from it
<umaxtu>
screenshot?
<Guest69325>
oh you can load those here?
<Guest69325>
hold on
<packbart>
same as in the forum, you'd need to use imgur.com or similar and post a link ;)
<Althego>
hah, progress. not the previous eve launcher failed to start. now i cant even isntall it
<packbart>
EVE Online destroys lives ;)
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<FLHerne>
Guest69325: "burn retrograde at 15km away" sounds like a very bad idea to me
<FLHerne>
I've not played this tutorial, but I suspect you've misunderstood something -- otherwise it's just wrong :p
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: Wait until you (and the target vessel) are a few seconds before the intercept
<FLHerne>
At that point, your velocity relative to the target should be within like 100m/s or so if you're in vaguely similar orbits
<FLHerne>
Burn retrograde relative to the target until the relative velocity is 0
<FLHerne>
Then turn to accelerate toward the target, or just use RCS, depending on the distance
<Guest69325>
making an imgur acct is taking ages
<Althego>
scott
<packbart>
Guest69325: you don't have to. they allow anonymous uploads
<packbart>
just click the "new post" button at the top
<Guest69325>
the tutorial said "for now, lets wait until we're about 15km away from the target. Once there make sure the navball is in target mode so it displays the right info, turn retrograde and burn at full throttle
<Guest69325>
also imgur said I had to make an acct wtf
<Guest69325>
ah, it redirected me and didn't tell me my images were posted
<umaxtu>
when you get close, you should see an indicator outside of map view
<Guest69325>
I've never seen it
<Guest69325>
it always sends me too far from the target
<packbart>
the manuever in the first image looks good to me
<packbart>
the orange (or purple) markers are close together. that's the point where you need to align your orbit with the target's
<Guest69325>
this is frustrating as I have stations over seversal planets that need support for battery life and science , not to mention they each only have a few of my worst kerbals
<Guest69325>
yees, I tried to
<Guest69325>
i HAD been trying to dock with my own ship from an almost identical orbit
<Guest69325>
I found that I couldn't geet under 9 km so I tried the tutorial and it only led to more confusion
<umaxtu>
have you tried watching any video tutorials?
<Guest69325>
sorry to seem like such an idiot
<packbart>
well, 9km is fine for the first approach as long as you get your target-relative speed down
<Guest69325>
oh yes I have
<Guest69325>
scott manley's made it worse
<Althego>
docking is hard when you are new to it
<Guest69325>
i tried and I landed
<Guest69325>
with force
<Guest69325>
unintentionally
<Althego>
i remember my first docking took me an hour and was sweating when i finished it
<Guest69325>
althego thtat's what she said :/
<packbart>
hm. putting a maneuver node at the intercept is tricky. nodes don't have "target-retrograde" handles
<Guest69325>
yeah
<packbart>
you could try and see what MechJeb does. with the situation in the last image, I'd use "match target velocity" from the maneuver planner menu
<packbart>
it _should_ not crash into the ground at that point
<Guest69325>
i figurwed switching sas to anti target/retrograde would work
<Guest69325>
oh you don't want to know
<packbart>
MJ has some trouble with the initial transfer at low orbits. sometimes it dips into the atmosphere. MJ does need supervision :)
<Guest69325>
i tried to learn from mechjeb and it expertly circularised at 40k above the target then turned hard into the atmosphere
<Guest69325>
I learned to basically never trust mj
<packbart>
it puts a node at the intercept with the right vector to align the orbits
<Guest69325>
hm.
<Althego>
hehe this was funny, they found the engine problem for the gps falcon 9 launch, it was a manufacturing problem, and many other engines have the same issue
<packbart>
oh. wait
<Althego>
at least they got it in time
<packbart>
I think you're going the wrong way, maybe?
<packbart>
hm
<Guest69325>
oh...?
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
happened to me in many missions
<Guest69325>
the tutorial puts you in an orbit
<Guest69325>
so
<Althego>
when the target kerbal or debris was in retrograde
<packbart>
ah. hm. maybe I'm misinterpreting the orbit line
<packbart>
no, you're good
* packbart
needs to check eyes :)
<packbart>
sorry for the added confusion
<Guest69325>
what I really waantesd to do was dock the two larger ring stations I have but I can't get past their tutorial so I figured I'd best not chance it
<packbart>
I was wondering about the 716m/s speed difference
<Guest69325>
I can't type to save my life
<Guest69325>
i did have a 3000m/s speed difference last time
<Althego>
pfff
<Guest69325>
so I figure I'm makingg progress
<packbart>
:)
<Guest69325>
cue facepalm
<Guest69325>
/runfacepalm
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<packbart>
anyway, from the images, I'd say it should work. warp to the intercept or shortly before, burn target-retrograde until the difference gets close to 0m/s (it won't stay at 0, anyway, that's normal)
<Guest69325>
that's the bugger
<packbart>
then point at the target, burn a little, turn retrograde. maybe repeat. (if the planes are mis-aligned too much, that might not work well at the first attempt)
<Guest69325>
burning target retrograde is what keeps ruining my intercept
<packbart>
_unless_ your control point does not point along the thrust vector. but that shouldn't happen in a tutorial
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<Guest69325>
I can reliably get less than a km separation at intercept
<Guest69325>
it's all the burning retrograde
<Althego>
but then it shouldnt be too hard
<Guest69325>
exactly so why is it
<Althego>
usually the hard part is to get a close enough rendezvous
<Guest69325>
hmph
<Althego>
if you have that, if you are just 1-2 km away, you have to cancel the target relative velocity, and therefore you will be in around the same orbit
<Guest69325>
my rendezvous is usually spot on
<Guest69325>
it's burning retrograde at 15km that undoes all the work I did to rendezvous. i tried burning when I was within visual range and I crashed
<Guest69325>
a a a
<packbart>
can't start KSP at the moment (still at work ;) so I can't look at the tutorial. I guess it's just a small thing that's off. hm.
<Guest69325>
HRM
<Althego>
you know what, i already finished work, i can start it up
<packbart>
it's probably just a command pod on a stick, isn't it? some other docking ports sticking out at other directions
<packbart>
if the command pod is not the "control from here" part, that's the only thing I can think of
<Althego>
but why would they mess with a rookie
<Guest69325>
eh
<packbart>
then your "retrograde" would not be the direction the engines would point at
<Guest69325>
on a podrcket
<Guest69325>
and hm
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: Do NOT burn retrograde at 15km, it won't work. "within visual range" should be fine, just try not to actually hit the target :p
<Guest69325>
*broadsides target, knocks both vessels into atmosphere*
<Guest69325>
lol
<FLHerne>
ha
<packbart>
("hitting the target" is another thing, MechJeb ist very good at. it likes the 0.00km separation rendezvous ;)
<FLHerne>
I have done that once or twice
<FLHerne>
But it's unusual to get that precise a rendezvous
<FLHerne>
(unless you are using MJ)
<Guest69325>
wow lol I was kidding
<umaxtu>
I had a station that had a sectional like an american footbal field goal. mechjeb scored me an orbital field goal
<Guest69325>
geez lol
<Guest69325>
umaztu um?
<Guest69325>
i'm envisioning an enormous couch
<umaxtu>
maybe I'm not using the right terminology, I'm not a sports person
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<Althego>
nothing strange here
<Althego>
pretty straightforward craft
<Althego>
maybe a a bit low twr
<Althego>
i can make a video of the docking in a few minutes
<Guest69325>
lol no the sectional
<Guest69325>
that's a type of couch
<Guest69325>
what's twr
<Guest69325>
oh duh nvm
<Guest69325>
I just started playing a few weeks ago
<Guest69325>
-_-
<a_flayer>
i stopped playing a few weeks ago
<a_flayer>
after a few encounters, you'll learn how to do it by feel
<Guest69325>
isn't 23 houurs of attempting the same thing "a few encounters" worth
<Guest69325>
to be fair I was burning at 15km as the tutorial instructed
<Guest69325>
and following directions appears to get you nowhere in this game
<a_flayer>
just give it some thought it plays out really easily once you understand the mechanics of the game
<a_flayer>
use a slightly lower orbit to catch up, a slightly higher orbit to slow down (relative to the target)
<a_flayer>
once you're within a few kilometers, you can just burn towards the target and then turn around and gradually slow down as you try to align your direction with the target
<a_flayer>
(align the two crosses on the indicator hub thingie at the bottom of the screen)
<a_flayer>
its not the most efficient way, but it is really easy if you have a few delta-Vs to spare
<Althego>
hehe i forgot to open the docking port. i usually use the normal ones
<Guest69325>
it looked like you were mostly trying to line up the maneuver, yet somehow you were just AT 0.5 m/s without doing anything? also you left one of your maneuvers with 16.3m/s left to burn,
<Althego>
there was a point where i wanted to target my craft with the other craft
<Guest69325>
hm?
<Althego>
and the context menu7 didnt want to show
<Althego>
so that both point towards each other
<Guest69325>
oh yes
<Althego>
and in the finishing part the important thing is to keep some velocity to finally close in on the target
<Guest69325>
so how were you at 0.5 m/s just coming out of map view
<Guest69325>
I didn't see you burn retro at all until tge last minute and you were at 0.5m/s already at that time'
<Althego>
ah the map view doesnt show the burn
<Guest69325>
somehow I've understood everything you said yet stilldon't quite understand what I'm doing wrong
<Guest69325>
oh
<Guest69325>
i'm feeling more and more the fool here
<Althego>
after 8:42 there is a small burn that changes the remaining speed from 4 to 0.5
<Althego>
this is not simple
<Guest69325>
ok
<Althego>
even nasa failed it at the first time
<Guest69325>
but how did you get to 4
<Guest69325>
cos I keep seeing digits in the 900's
<Guest69325>
1300 max
<Guest69325>
and yeah but i'm used to getting the complex things and totally missing the simple ones so this is especially vexing
<Guest69325>
also is warpology something like imgur, or?
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: The velocity difference will get smaller the closer you are to the target
<Althego>
no, that is mine
<FLHerne>
The residual difference depends on how different your orbits are
<Althego>
easier to upload to my plaace thant to some other platform
<FLHerne>
i.e. if you're in an identical orbit to the target, and right next to it, the relative velocity is 0
<Guest69325>
oh, brilliant
<FLHerne>
(if it wasn't 0, you'd be in a different orbit)
<FLHerne>
But if you're in an identical orbit but on exactly the opposite side of the planet, it's 2x <orbital velocity>
<Althego>
and that is the problem with docking. if you want to go closer, you will eb in a different, which will eventually take you farther
<FLHerne>
Because you're going in the opposite direction
<FLHerne>
Which is why you should never try maneuvering according to relative velocity unless you're right next to something -- the numbers just aren't helpful
<Althego>
that is why the rendezvous happened on the night side
<JVFoxy>
trying to dock two ships in two elliptical orbits at different phase angles.. going to be some harsh burns there. Might help to first at least match orbits a bit more
<JVFoxy>
changing phase angles is pretty DV intensive, unless the top of your orbit is already pretty high.
<JVFoxy>
ugh... KSP withdrawal a thing? Been work'n a few things at friend's, don't have my big pc. :\
<Guest69325>
not the comically extreme one, the other one
<Althego>
yes this looks right
<Guest69325>
is 17.7 too far
<Althego>
althoug h17.7 km is a bit much
<Guest69325>
yeah well it started at 90
<Guest69325>
;p
<Guest69325>
unsure how to close that distance. another few orbits?
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<Guest69325>
also to "who reads these anyway"
<Althego>
so if you look at tit
<Guest69325>
I do
<Guest69325>
closely
<Althego>
up close
<Guest69325>
yes
<Althego>
are the orbits really toching?
<FLHerne>
You can usually get it close enough, just jiggle the node forward or backward and adjust the pro/retrograde accordingly
<Althego>
touching
<Althego>
if they do, just move the node a bit around
<Guest69325>
i finetuned from 90 to 17 and it wants to go no further
<Althego>
we not the arrows
<Althego>
but the node itself
<Guest69325>
they aren't
<Guest69325>
yes of course, the node itself
<Guest69325>
that's what I'm saying
<Guest69325>
HJKI9GJFGY
<Guest69325>
Shoe is back, but when will the other one drop
<Althego>
so if neither the pro and retrograde nor the moving of the node helps
<Guest69325>
lolol
<Althego>
then the normal and the anti normal could help
<Guest69325>
i was wary of those due to the inclination problems I had on early attempts
<Althego>
but in that case those would need a few m/s change only
<FLHerne>
Only if the inclination is off
<FLHerne>
And 17km would be quite noticeable
<Althego>
yes probably
<Guest69325>
inclination is 0.0
<Althego>
that is nice
<Althego>
then you dont need those
<Guest69325>
then...
<Althego>
then the pro and retrograde and the movement of the node is the solution
<FLHerne>
Tweaking radial/anti-radial can be a quick-and-dirty way to adjust the phasing slightly
<Guest69325>
both handles send the distance further up
<Althego>
i would probably add a bit of prograde until the orbits intersect instead of touching, and move the node until i get a small enough encounter
<Guest69325>
same with the radial nodes
<Guest69325>
I've tried all of this
<Guest69325>
yet at 117.7 I remain
<Guest69325>
17.7
<Althego>
you know wht, not impoosible to salvage
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: You need to adjust multiple things at the same time sometimes, there's a knack :p
<Althego>
try it with this
<Guest69325>
big difference o.o
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<Althego>
it just means you need to burn a bit more during the close up
<Guest69325>
and that's not unsafe?
<Althego>
i bet the loss would be under 100 m/s
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: Adjust one thing, see which direction it gets further in, then adjust a different parameter to counteract that, etc...
<Guest69325>
not that safety is a particularly kerbal virtue
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<Guest69325>
down to 14.8
<Guest69325>
correction, 12.6
<Guest69325>
... now what o.0
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: I'd say make the burn, then play around with it afterward
<Guest69325>
10k is the closet it gets now
<Guest69325>
yay
<Althego>
that is ok
<Althego>
you just need to cruise towrds it a bit longer
<FLHerne>
Unless you execute it perfectly, there'll be some error to correct anyway
<Althego>
which means more correction burns
<Guest69325>
thanks for helping for so long
<Guest69325>
hahahahahaaaa I accidentally burned for a few seconds without setting myself to target the maneuver and my margin of error took me down to 6.8km
<Althego>
hehe
<Guest69325>
I couldn't have done better myself
<Guest69325>
obviously
<Guest69325>
x3
<Guest69325>
so
<Guest69325>
shall i try my luck or should I keep trying to come closer in
<Althego>
are you already that close?
<Guest69325>
i'm still a long time from getting there but I will intercept at 6.8 km
<Althego>
you just need to keep the purple and green markers on each other with resonable speed
<Guest69325>
the wha?
<Althego>
the target position and your speed
<Guest69325>
i'm looking at blue green and orange
<Althego>
if your speed is point ing towards the target you will get there eventually
<Guest69325>
ah
<Guest69325>
um
<Althego>
but only when you get cose enough
<Guest69325>
what?
<Guest69325>
if my speed is pointing towards the target I will get there but only if I'm close enough
<Althego>
yes
<Guest69325>
o.O
<Althego>
because both of you are on elliptical orbits
<Althego>
which means
<Guest69325>
how can speed point towards a target
<Guest69325>
speed is a speed
<Althego>
ok, velocity
<Althego>
which is a vector
<Althego>
so this only works if you are really close, because of the orbits, any maneuver you do, will take you away from the target, even if you want to go towards it
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<Guest69325>
w h a t
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<Guest69325>
so your'e saying I can only get farther awya'
<Althego>
say you are on the same orbit. behind the target. distance is constant. you burn towards the target to get closer. what happens? your orbit get higher and you get slower, so you start to go away. you burn retrograde. your speed increases as you drop below the target, but then you are not hitting it either.
<Althego>
stuff like this
<FLHerne>
I think there's a confusion :p
<Althego>
obviosuly
<Guest69325>
a ball of confusion
<Althego>
no such thing. but there is a cone of confusion :)
<FLHerne>
Althego: tbh, I have no idea what you're trying to say
<Guest69325>
ha
<Guest69325>
nor do I
<Guest69325>
I mean, sort of?
<Althego>
that straightforward simple maneuvers dont get you to your target when both of you are in orbit
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: It's probably worth adding a maneuver node and trying to get the intercept a little bit closer, IMO
<Guest69325>
thanks, FLHerne_
<FLHerne>
Althego: I'm not sure this addresses any relevant point :p
<FLHerne>
Maybe it does
<FLHerne>
Guest69325: You shouldn't try to maneuver directly relative to the target (burn towards it, away from it, retrograde from it, ...) until you're at or near the rendezvous
<Althego>
i was talking about, when you get close. you have to keep the prograde vector on the target. the mentioned effects try to move it away from it constantly. so you need many corrections
<FLHerne>
But course corrections are almost always better done sooner than later
<Althego>
but if you cant do it, like in this case, you need to keep cruising towards the target longer, with small correction
<Guest69325>
I got that bit
<Guest69325>
4.8 so far'
<Guest69325>
these 0.2 second burns are a killer
<Althego>
you can right click the engine
<Althego>
and change maxium thrust
<Althego>
maximum
<Althego>
then your full throttle will be lot smaller, making your burns longer
<Guest69325>
yep
<FLHerne>
Remember you can use shift/ctrl to notch thrust up or down
<Guest69325>
welp now I'm going 40m/s in relation to the craft but separation is 3.4km
<Guest69325>
do I just flip 'round and burn towards it
<Althego>
you can
<Guest69325>
or?
<Althego>
or wait
<Guest69325>
for the next orbit?
<Althego>
as long as ou keep the prograde vector on the target, eventually oypu get there
<Althego>
you
<Guest69325>
hm
<Althego>
but it will drift over time
<FLHerne>
Althego: Surely that's "flip 'round and burn towards it"
<Guest69325>
hmmm
<Guest69325>
how to i keep it
<Althego>
the nose of the craft attracts the prograde marker and repells the retrograde marker. so you can just move them with small burns if they are off
<Guest69325>
ah
<Althego>
but if you think it takes long you can speed up a bit
<Guest69325>
also the vessel whizzed by me at a mere 600m away
<Althego>
that is close
<Althego>
you just need to turn around and chase it
<Guest69325>
oh
<Guest69325>
um
<Guest69325>
i let it go by
<Althego>
why
<Guest69325>
I missed it I assumed I was screwed
<Althego>
if you are closer tha na few km you can always chase it
<Guest69325>
we have a new rdv at 0.8km
<Guest69325>
shall I let it get ahaed or leave it\
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<Althego>
get ahead?
<Guest69325>
great I did a spirale around it I think now i'mput of fuel
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
that is exactly what nasa did
<Guest69325>
hours of work for nothing
<Althego>
you could turn on infinite fuel
<Guest69325>
lhkjlhjlgj
<Guest69325>
fuck nasa
<Althego>
so that you can practice getting close
<Guest69325>
oh no
<Guest69325>
how?
<Guest69325>
how was I even supposed to get close it went right arond ,me
<Althego>
that was the thing i was talking about
<Althego>
you have to keep the prograde vector on it
<Althego>
because normally it will drift away
<Guest69325>
DID YOU WANT ME TO CHASE IT OR KEEP THE VECTOR ON IT IOJBIOH
<Althego>
keeping the cevtor on it is chasing it
<Guest69325>
I aimed towards the target and burned
<Guest69325>
was that wrong
<Althego>
no, not really, if you are close that works
<Guest69325>
it zoomed past and circled then gone
<Guest69325>
i was 300m
<Guest69325>
away
<Althego>
but when it was 300 m
<Althego>
the target indicator must have moved away from the prograde indicator
<Althego>
at that point you needed to move those together again
<Guest69325>
yeah I lost all of the indicators but target
<Guest69325>
omg how
<Guest69325>
ho0w
<Guest69325>
how
<Guest69325>
how
<Guest69325>
how
<Althego>
because they moved away
<Guest69325>
..
<Althego>
so probably were outside of the navball
<Althego>
i mean on the navball
<Guest69325>
not what I'm lost with
<Althego>
but outside of the visiblearea
<Guest69325>
I aimed prograde and the thing got farther away I aimed at the target and lost the rest of the stuff
<Althego>
basically you did what i said in the example. you were almost on the same orbit as the target. burnt prograde. that increased the apoapsis, which meant it took you farther away
<Guest69325>
for short term can I use mj autodock once I'm that close again
<Althego>
you can check what it does
<Althego>
if it doesnt fail :)
<Guest69325>
I think seeing it happen on a screen I can manippulate may help
<Althego>
you can try this in sandbox too
<Althego>
with the current cheat menu you can put two ships into orbit
<Althego>
and then you can try docking with them
<Althego>
but there you have save
<Guest69325>
what I was after in the first place was ddockinjg the 2 large stations I have in sandbox but I can't even do this teeny one
<Guest69325>
yeah look
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<packbart>
well, props to Althego, anyway :)
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<Kerbinator3000>
hi
<Mod9000>
Hello, Kerbinator3000
<Kerbinator3000>
am I supposed to say hello lol is thhis a mechmod
<packbart>
well, it's a greeting, so you wouldn't feel lonely ;)
<FLHerne>
I find it annoying
<Kerbinator3000>
I walk a lonely road
<Kerbinator3000>
The only one that I have ever known
<Kerbinator3000>
kill me
<Kerbinator3000>
lol
<Kerbinator3000>
I've heard of asparagus fuel setups but i'm not clear what it means, is it the elusive ability to drain the side tanks first?
<FLHerne>
Yes
<Kerbinator3000>
wizar
<Kerbinator3000>
wizard
<FLHerne>
Particularly taken to extremes, where you have 6 or so side tanks and drain pairs of them sequentially
<Kerbinator3000>
how is that done exactly?
<FLHerne>
Cunningly-arranged pipes
<Kerbinator3000>
also it's me, the reckless rendezvous rocketeer
<Kerbinator3000>
but with a more doofenschmirtz name
<FLHerne>
I somewhat disagree with the opening paragraph
<Kerbinator3000>
oh?
<Kerbinator3000>
care to
<Kerbinator3000>
eeloocidate
<FLHerne>
Even though bigger engines exist, it's still worthwhile for saving fuel sometimes
<Kerbinator3000>
righto
<FLHerne>
Particularly on all those bodies that don't have drag, or have thinner atmospheres
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<FLHerne>
Although I guess ISRU spaceships fill that niche a bit
<Kerbinator3000>
i was hoping it might help me launch enormous vehicles
<Kerbinator3000>
ISRU?
<FLHerne>
(I hadn't played for years until the other month, still haven't got used to the effect on the game that has)
<FLHerne>
'in-space resource utilization' -- making fuel on other planets
<FLHerne>
It makes exploring the solar system vastly easier
<Kerbinator3000>
hm
<FLHerne>
Because of the rocket equation, Δv anywhere far from Kerbin used to be incredibly expensive
<Kerbinator3000>
i saw drills and converters and got extremely excited
<FLHerne>
Whereas now you can just land your spaceship on things and refuel, which is pretty fun, but very different
<Kerbinator3000>
sadly the landing legs keep giving me the business
<FLHerne>
What are you trying to land on?
<Kerbinator3000>
either too long, preventing the drill from reaching the ground, or too short, and they wont reach the ground
<FLHerne>
Oh, that
<FLHerne>
I had that too :p
<FLHerne>
If it's only a little bit, you can reduce the spring strength of the legs
<Kerbinator3000>
not to mention, I first played on xbox where you could edit the springs annd dampers, but on pc I can't?
<Kerbinator3000>
so I keep boucning sideways
<FLHerne>
I had one lander that only worked with the legs on the drill side at 0.05 strength, and the opposite pair at max
<FLHerne>
But then you touch it and it falls over :p
<Kerbinator3000>
heh
<FLHerne>
There's a setting for that on the PC version
<Kerbinator3000>
where
<FLHerne>
'Advanced Tweakables', I think
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<Kerbinator3000>
i seem to have lost all fine control in the vab
<Kerbinator3000>
ah
<FLHerne>
I don't know why, the default damper settings are hopeless
<Kerbinator3000>
right?
<Kerbinator3000>
* b o i n g*
<FLHerne>
So many planes that want to bounce up and down endlessly
<FLHerne>
Still, it's better than 1.0.0
<Kerbinator3000>
worse, the planes that refuse to stay straight
<FLHerne>
That was the one where the landing gear exploded randomly
<FLHerne>
Literally, you'd be rolling smoothly down the runway, and the wheels would explode
<Kerbinator3000>
I've started letting them roll off of the runway and launching them to the side since when I try to remain on a linear path it jerks from side to side\
<Kerbinator3000>
once you're in the air your're safe
<FLHerne>
Are you using capslock to reduce the control sensitivity?
<FLHerne>
It's kind of necessary for spaceplanes
<Kerbinator3000>
so I try designing them blue angels style
<FLHerne>
Also, disable steering on the rear wheels
<Kerbinator3000>
take-off as soon as possible
<Kerbinator3000>
oh
<Kerbinator3000>
I wasn't aware of either
<Kerbinator3000>
as tweakabl;es
<FLHerne>
Well, sometimes they're still a pig to steer :p
<FLHerne>
But it works a bit better
<Kerbinator3000>
I'll try that
<FLHerne>
For the same issue on landing, increasing the brake strength on the rear wheels and reducing it on the nosewheel helps too
<Kerbinator3000>
I think I'll keep throwing the weight towards the back for quick takeoff though
<Kerbinator3000>
lol duh on the last one
<FLHerne>
Yeah, rear wheels as close to the CoG is good
<FLHerne>
(until the mass shifts rearward as you use fuel, and then you can't land without the tail exploding)
<Kerbinator3000>
lol
<Kerbinator3000>
obikin kerman ikmplies the existence of ani-wan kerman
<Kerbinator3000>
also
<Kerbinator3000>
if I managed to get two spacecraft in circular orbits, but approx. 500 m apart in orbit, with one 2700m behind, could one rendezvous with the other or is it not valid
<FLHerne>
That should be fairly easy
<FLHerne>
tbh, at that distance you could probably get away with burning one straight toward the other and correcting for drift, if you have Δv to spare
<FLHerne>
The 'right' way would be to raise the orbit of the leading one very slightly
<FLHerne>
(by burning prograde)
<FLHerne>
Which will increase its orbital period so the other one will catch up
<Kerbinator3000>
*2700km behind
<FLHerne>
Ok, then definitely the second option
<FLHerne>
If you raise the leadings craft's Ap a few km, it'll take several orbits for the other one to catch up
<FLHerne>
If you raise it more it'll go quicker, but then you have to be careful not to overshoot
<Kerbinator3000>
lolool I just deactivated the computer's file system