<SporkWitch>
... i'm literally accelerating uphill on minmus with the brakes on lol
<flayer>
yeah that happens to me too
<raptop>
whee
<SporkWitch>
ooofff, the small drill and isru are so slow lol
<SporkWitch>
and i misread specs; massively underdid the cooling >_< lol
<raptop>
oosp
<packbart>
the small ISRU also wastes a lot more ore than the bigger one, iirc
<SporkWitch>
probably, but i just haven't managed to come up with a viable mk3 plane
<SporkWitch>
what I may end up doing is instead of creating a proper plane, launch something with a rocket, and have it just have a refueling lander. Feel like that's probably really inefficient too, though, since it'd have to make multiple trips, most likely
<SporkWitch>
That's why I'm super excited for the potential of improved off-world construction in KSP2. As implemented in KSP1, off-world manufacturing is just so clunky because of the EVA construction limitations and flimsy docking collars.
<SporkWitch>
reloaded from before i deorbited at minmus; 840m/s should be plenty to get me home and slow me down for safe reentry
<SporkWitch>
SUPER-aggressive aerobrake (50km first pass back from minmus): NOTHING EXPLODED! lol
<SporkWitch>
as good as this thing's performing, i really hope adding another couple batteries and the right heat sinks doesn't kill the deltaV... lol
<SporkWitch>
lol, forgot to switch to surface mode; was wondering why it was so hard to control: prograde indicator was 90 degrees off of what it really was lol
<SporkWitch>
so i DIDN"T screw up my maths, the problem is that the 125 has max cooling less than required cooling, so it has to be watched...
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<SporkWitch>
so serious question: how is the max cooling on the small ISRU not a bug? The thing works so bloody slow you HAVE to use time acceleration, but if you do, it'll explode since it literally cannot be cooled faster than it heats up, and that on top of the fact it's less efficient with materials and power... unless i'm missing something, it's functionally unusable even with reasonable levels of
<SporkWitch>
patience...
* raptop
doesn't know
<SporkWitch>
that said, i THINK i've solved my thrust problem for a mk3 spaceplane to fit the large (huzzah 8x1 engine plates). Will have to figure out lift and control authority tomorrow, but at least on the runway, it feels like the right amount of thrust and fuel consumption to be in line with the mk2 from earlier. Strongly suspect i'll need further redesign after, though, because i doubt two nervs are
<SporkWitch>
sufficient for a reasonable burn duration even to minmus heh
<packbart>
do you have the TCS panels on it or only the radiator panels?
<packbart>
The wiki sez: "Especially note that it requires 100kW of cooling per recipe to maintain its operating temperature, but the unit is strictly limited to 50kW of passive cooling, maximum. This means the unit will always overheat unless an active TCS is used to remove additional heat. The intended use is to pulse the conversion operations, rather than leave it running for extended periods."
<packbart>
because of "This converter discards 90% of the ore it processes; only converting 10% of the ore into fuel."
<SporkWitch>
packbart: the mk2 has a small ISRU and small drill, total required cooling is 150, the ship had a medium TCS (250 core heat xfer). Problem is that the small ISRU has a 75 MAX cooling, while the other ISRU and both drills have equal max and required. Wiki claims it should reach an equilibrium that's just outside optimum, but mine exploded.
<SporkWitch>
unless i clicked the wrong process, but i'm 99% sure i clicked "monopropellant" not one of the combo modes
<packbart>
hmmyeah, the active cooling should take off the excess heat conducting to other parts and prevent it from overheating too much
<SporkWitch>
TCS should take heat from the hottest part first, right? could it be that it was too far away from the ISRU on the hull?
<SporkWitch>
the drill was 100% stable at 1k kelvin
<SporkWitch>
(or was it 500? whatever it's optimum was)
<packbart>
I'm not quite sure about how the TCS works but as long as it didn't reach its max temp, it should cool all parts that to 1/4 their max temp, iirc
<packbart>
enable the thermal debug PAW info and you can watch it work
<packbart>
the panels only cool up to direct children of their parent part
<packbart>
(I usually put a 4k battery on top of the large ISRU and stick two or three radiator panels on that)
<SporkWitch>
"the panels only cool up to direct children of their parent part" Sounds like that was the cause. It might have been just close enough to the drill, but NOT the ISRU, as I had it further back on the hull
<SporkWitch>
(the TCS, that is; ISRU I put in front because i needed the centre of gravity to stay further forward; that was the issue earlier, i kept nosing up and couldn't get it down lol)
<packbart>
yeah, that's the difference between radiator panels and the TCS thingies (those cool all parts)
<packbart>
hm
<SporkWitch>
(that is, weight shift was the problem, i had put the ISRU in front to begin with)
<packbart>
now I'm confused :) with TCS (the unfolding parts) it should work. only the radiator panels have limited reach
<packbart>
but anyway, the small ISRU is special and not reall suited for prolonged use
<SporkWitch>
pretty sure TCS also say they only cool 4 things, the wording just didn't make clear if distance from the hot part mattered...
<packbart>
hm. I don't remember that limitation
<SporkWitch>
well, see my comment above: it's not suited to ANY use. It's too slow to use without time accleration, and the heating behaviour means you can't use it with time acceleration lol
<SporkWitch>
gimme a few, botting the game up again to take a look
<SporkWitch>
might just cheat myself over to minmus for a quick test, as it's late; it's entirely possible it was a bug, just like my accelerating uncontrollably uphill despite engines being off and no RCS fuel, brakes on lol
<SporkWitch>
(gotta love minmus physics lol)
<packbart>
Input: Ore 2.5/s, Output: Monopropellant 0.5/s - yeah, monoprop production on the small ISRU is even more inefficient than LF/Ox
<SporkWitch>
filled up the ore, then turned ISRU on, and this time it didn't overheat... i'm at a loss here
<SporkWitch>
must have been a bug
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<SporkWitch>
yeah, just did a bunch of fiddling, couldn't reproduce the explosion. no idea >_< upside: means that design is viable, just need to add more batteries so it doesn't run out of power overnight (since that turns off the drill so i can't just leave it in acceleration until it's refueled)
<packbart>
I recommend enabling the thermal part info. it gives some more insight into where the heat goes
<packbart>
if you leave it unobserved, magic happens. the converters and drill don't use power and won't overheat ;)
<SporkWitch>
oh there was no question about where it went, the ISRU exploded lol. That's when i reloaded before my deorbit burn and I made that crazy 50km initial aerobrake on the return haha
<SporkWitch>
also no way to know it's done refueling :P
<SporkWitch>
asteroids are limited resources, right? they're eventually exhausted and you have to find a new one?
<packbart>
yes. but on the other hand, they contain close to 100% ore
<Izaya>
packbart: Kangaroo Space Program
<packbart>
so one drill delivers much more ore per time to the converter(s)
<SporkWitch>
that's why i was wondering; curious how worthwhile it would be to bring some rocks home heh
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<SporkWitch>
i am doing Kod's work: convincing new people to play KSP lol
<Althego>
and that is the problem with humans, why do they need convincing for this?
<SporkWitch>
in fairness, the couple potential converts tonight had never even heard of it before
<SporkWitch>
apparently taking a month or two off did wonders for me. I managed an extra 1km/s dV left once into LKO on my new spaceplane design, compared to barely managing 400m/s with my previous model i spent a week on
<SporkWitch>
also have a potential mk3-size of similar dV efficiency, just eyeballing based on burn times and TWR on the ground; haven't done any work on the lift or control authority yet
<darsie>
Oops, there's a Jeb in it. That's threep parts.
<darsie>
Doesn't work without pilot.
<darsie>
Could we make a Kerbal powered pedal generator?
<Althego>
lol
<darsie>
:)
<Althego>
but the question remains, what powers the kerbal in the base game?
<darsie>
Sunlight?
<Althego>
it is green...
<Althego>
but this is contrary to the fungus hypothesis i favor
<Althego>
maybe kerbals are lichen?
<darsie>
Put it in the inventory.
<darsie>
And a smaller hand crank version.
<Izaya>
can confirm, kerbals break rocks
<Althego>
rock paper scissors lizard jeb?
<bees>
Althego: You try to publish a paper about how pigs are actually plants. You discover how Kerbals reproduce and swear not to tell.
<Althego>
hehe
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<darsie>
Pigs use spirals for reproduction.
<Althego>
and ducks
<Mat2ch>
I thought Kerbals run on snacks..
<Althego>
only with mods
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<darsie>
.
<Althego>
isag time?
<darsie>
isag?
<Althego>
1546
<darsie>
ah :)
<darsie>
it is
<darsie>
Kerbals are spawned in space.
<darsie>
I've hired them, too, when I wasn't in the mood of rescuing them till I found a suitable one.
<darsie>
;mission
<LunchBot>
darsie: You obtain +o. Physics fails you, and you fall through the floor.
<darsie>
;mission add You rescue a Kerbal from the surface of the Mun without landing on the Mun.
<LunchBot>
darsie: Added mission: You rescue a Kerbal from the surface of the Mun without landing on the Mun.
<darsie>
The perks of +o.
<darsie>
in the Matrix
<darsie>
We could make a wiki page with a list of records like cheapest rocket to orbit.
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<Althego>
i missed leet and kikkerikii
<darsie>
What did you do instead?
<SporkWitch>
sooooo... someone literally wrote an "adult" book about Systemd... lol
<darsie>
The adjective 'literally' seems very appropriate for books.
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
then that means, we are missing childern's book about systemd
<darsie>
I think systemd is not for kids.
<Althego>
how would you illustrate unit files with colorful pictures?
<SporkWitch>
hmm, does the autobot nuke spam? trying to post the book description but it's 16 lines lol
<darsie>
It's ok for kids to use systemd without being aware of it, but it's probably too much for them to dig too deep into it.
<SporkWitch>
"Not your normal Friday night in the computer room. Not a normal night anywhere. Terry is the archetypal old-school Unix admin, nurturing servers with care and precision while avoiding the latest trendy garbage. KDE and Gnome on a server? Nope, if you need a GUI use FVWM. The latest trend Terry refuses? One adopted almost everywhere? Systemd, the replacement init. So Systemd comes for Terry. Wearing skin-tight leather pant
<SporkWitch>
s. No, not a normal night in the computer room at all… (Declared "inappropriate for all audiences" by Amazon Advertising!)"
<Althego>
yes i declare it inappropate for everybody too
<darsie>
Is Tristen still a kid?
<Althego>
probably, without time travel
<Mat2ch>
SporkWitch: I, uh, what. Oh, Rule 34, I forgot. :D
<Mat2ch>
And if you install X on a server you should be haunted by the 9-tailed cat.
<Mat2ch>
I'm not sure if that is appropriate here... *chuckles*
<darsie>
:)
<UmbralRaptor>
Right, we'll have to haunt you with a 9-tailed fox instead
<Mat2ch>
I promise, I never installed X on a server!
<SporkWitch>
it's a cat5-of-nine-tails! lol
<Mat2ch>
That's too cheap for me. I need a cat7-of-nine-tails!
<SporkWitch>
cat7 is the displayport of ethernet cables, totally overpriced and unnecessary
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<packbart>
hm, yeah. not much use between cat5e and cat8
<packbart>
although 10Gbit is now cheap enough for home use
<Althego>
is that copper?
<packbart>
yes
<Althego>
now with ssds 1 gigabit is not fast anymore
<SporkWitch>
anyone use kurs? If so, how do i actually SHOW the camera? lol
* flayer
tackles SporkWitch
<Althego>
tackling better than tickling
<flayer>
i'm having some serious potato farts
<flayer>
it propels me forward
<Althego>
probably that is how space whales move
<flayer>
lol
<SporkWitch>
lol rockomax hub max connector: clearly has hatches on all connections, says "docking ports not included" >_< lol
<packbart>
well, they're bulkheads with hatches, not docking ports
<SporkWitch>
the whole thing could be an airlock! lol
<packbart>
but that would look odd if you connect crew compartments or similar to it
<packbart>
SSPX has useful 1.25m airlocks
<Mat2ch>
well, you can get 10 GBit from Cat6 A cables
<Mat2ch>
and if you need more, you might want to look at fiber
<Althego>
tha always looks overkill and complicated
<Althego>
not exactly consumer tech
<Mat2ch>
If you need more than 10 GBit at home, you are not a regular consumer anymore. :D
<Althego>
i just think 10 would be nice. maybe i would consider a nas too
<Althego>
modern wifi is faster than 1 gb ethernet
<Althego>
kind of silly
<SporkWitch>
anyone use kurs docking cam or know one that works on linux? It seems to be current version, but the camera never actually appears >_<
<Althego>
maybe rogozin of roscosmos can tell you about that :)
<SporkWitch>
i don't actually struggle to dock, it'd just be really nice lol
<packbart>
it's a linuxgurugamer mod. he plays KSP on Windows but might know more about it
<SporkWitch>
that's rather ironic lol
<Mat2ch>
Althego: the tell you it is faster, but did you really measure it?
<Althego>
inside a room it would be probably
<Althego>
but doesnt really matter, this router is already several years old, and i still dont have any fast wifi device
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<SporkWitch>
love my AC3100, but I'll probably make the move to ubituiti if/when I need to replace it or expand my network
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<SporkWitch>
i think it might actually have been a mod that was causing the oddities with temperature last night. I removed restock (didn't even mean to have it, another mod grabbed it), and now my small drill and miner are sitting stable at perfect temp
<SporkWitch>
with single medium TCS, as the maths suggest
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<packbart>
hmyeah, that Extra Docking Ports mod doesn't work without Restock, causing MM errors. Maybe I can figure out what's wrong and put in a bug report/patch
<packbart>
I don't like Restock much, tbh. ymmv
<SporkWitch>
definitely removed it once i noticed it lol. now all the craft i've tweaked are yelling at me when i load them lol
<packbart>
and some of them might look odd because the part models have different geometries
<SporkWitch>
yeah
<SporkWitch>
don't think i ran into that with any of what i was using, but performance was definitely slightly different
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<SporkWitch>
i think i've resigned myself to giving up on my self-refueling SSTO spaceplane, though. Just need to strap way too many batteries on it to last through the minmus night and thus not have to manually manage toggling things
<SporkWitch>
i ran the maths and i COULD do 45 RTGs lol
<packbart>
fuel cells not an option?
<SporkWitch>
with the absurdly low production rate as it is?
<packbart>
ah. right. they work well with the large converter
<SporkWitch>
yeah, the large has net gain
<SporkWitch>
would take four fuel cell arrays to run the liquid+ox mode (since it's per product costs), which would consume ~130% of the produced fuel and oxidizer lol
<SporkWitch>
since the drill can't keep up, so single-mode is only generating about 0.1 unit per second
<SporkWitch>
just have to make sure it can keep going through the night or the ISRU overheats and the drill shuts down (the drill stops and has to be restarted after stopping time warp, the ISRU keeps going even with no power and just keeps building heat)
<SporkWitch>
just no viable way to do it that i can see, unless I solve the problems with a mk3 size, or totally redesign around an exposed large ISRU and trill
<SporkWitch>
*drill
<SporkWitch>
more likely, i'm thinking i'll construct a refinery to send to minmus and design a simple drone fuel carrier
<SporkWitch>
i do wish the EVA building were more robust, though. It's just so limiting only really being able to bolt things on, not properly assemble larger structures, so you have to land them intact or give them wheels and dock them
<SporkWitch>
did the maths and the 45 RTGs would only way less than 4t, but obviously take up a lot of space lol
<packbart>
and cost a lot of credits
<SporkWitch>
yeah, but that's the point of an infinitely reusable craft :P
<SporkWitch>
also just noticed RTGs require cooling, too... lol
<packbart>
yeah, but usually the craft's thermal mass and radiation can deal with that
<SporkWitch>
on 45 of them? lol
<bees>
SporkWitch: set time warp to 10000+
<bees>
magically all drills start working
<SporkWitch>
basically just gave up on it. Now I'm working on a drone lander with drills and refinery lol
<bees>
game stops simulating _something_ at high time warps, presumably heat system
<bees>
so as long as you can survive one tick of warp, it works forever
<SporkWitch>
bit TOO cheaty at that point lol
<SporkWitch>
struggling to get started on designing thls mobile refinery. any suggestions on ideal number of drills and ISRUs? Presumably only need one container since the ISRU's should be draining it pretty fast
<SporkWitch>
it'll mainly be for minmus and other light moons, so can have stupid payload capacity
<bees>
if you _can_ achieve the same result manually with constant start/stop cycles, not _that_ cheaty
<bees>
just wait 2-3x time that it would take you normally, i guess?
* flayer
prods bees
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<XXCoder>
;mission
<LunchBot>
XXCoder: You design a rocket fueled by mashed bananas and matchsticks. You exit the realm of possiblity.
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<packbart>
radioactive fuel
<bees>
XXCoder: You design a series of planetary probes around the paradigm of exchanging reaction mass for ablative lithobraking equipment. The petunias think to themselves "Not again."