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<raptop>
;outcome add You become fluent in PowerPoint.
<LunchBot>
raptop: Added outcome: You become fluent in PowerPoint.
<raptop>
This is of course, a bad result
<SporkWitch>
pretty sure that's a bad outcome
<SporkWitch>
lol
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<bees>
raptop: You try putting racing stripes, R-Type stickers, and a fat exhaust on your rocket to improve performance. The end result is, naturally, yet more orbital debris.
<raptop>
!outcome add You suffer terminal acronym poisoning.
<LunchBot>
raptop: Added outcome: You suffer terminal acronym poisoning.
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<FLHerne>
!outcome add Scientists propose creating cats that glow when exposed to radiation, to warn kerbals away from the crash site.
<LunchBot>
FLHerne: Added outcome: Scientists propose creating cats that glow when exposed to radiation, to warn kerbals away from the crash site.
<FLHerne>
!outcome del Scientists prop
<LunchBot>
FLHerne: Deleted outcome: "Scientists propose creating cats that glow when exposed to radiation, to warn kerbals away from the crash site."
<FLHerne>
!outcome add To warn future generations of the crash site, your scientists propose breeding cats that glow in the presence of radiation
<LunchBot>
FLHerne: Added outcome: To warn future generations of the crash site, your scientists propose breeding cats that glow in the presence of radiation
<bees>
.
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<darkie>
.
<darkie>
There is radiation everywhere.
<darkie>
like gravity radiation
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<darkie>
If you wave your hand, there's gravity radiation, AKA hand waving radiation.
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<XXCoder>
;missiom
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<XXCoder>
;mission
<LunchBot>
XXCoder: You do an aileron roll! Wernher Von Kerman yells racist remarks over the radio. You file a complaint with HR.
<XXCoder>
uhh ok
<darkie>
Wernher von Kerman
<bees>
XXCoder: You try to make hot tea in zero gravity. The mission is a success, but your efforts went unnoticed: everyone was watching a cool new TV show.
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<Althego>
must have been the expanse
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<Althego>
hehe verybody is dunking on the rx 6500 xt, completely deserverd
<SporkWitch>
it's an ATI GPU, their drivers have always been shit, and that hasn't changed since AMD bought them
<Althego>
SporkWitch: you are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute
<SporkWitch>
I couldn't figure out the seashells and needed TP
<raptop>
huh, the bot didn't ping me
<Althego>
me neither
<raptop>
anyway, yadda yadda kids yadda forum rules
<SporkWitch>
clearly the bot agrees that one s-bomb is allowed in the PG13 category
<Althego>
the problem is no with the drivers, it is genuinely bad
<SporkWitch>
really? usually the hardware is competitive, it's the drivers that make it suck
<Althego>
like in martian, they had one, and that happened in the beginning when the ship left
<Althego>
"AMD RX 6500 XT is Worse Than 2016's GPUs: Benchmarks vs. GTX 1060, 970, 960, & RX 580" title by gamers nexus
<Althego>
only 4 pcie lanes, which cripples it in pcie 3, lacks hardware encoding, and performs very weakly in everything
<SporkWitch>
wow, that IS garbage lol
<Althego>
nvidia wasnt excactly playing by the rules by its latest low end releaise either
<Althego>
but we are used to that now
<SporkWitch>
i can make some allowances for the explicitly low-end models; they're literally about making things available and cheap, but unless ATI/AMD changed their naming conventions, XT is not their budget line
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<SporkWitch>
if i remember right the reasoning for the "XT" moniker is literally "eXTreme," as in the high-end
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<FLHerne>
currently, "XT" just means "faster than the same number but without 'XT'"
<Eddi|zuHause>
why is it, between the spark and the terrier engine, i get so widely different dv values with the same amount of fuel?
<Althego>
mass?
<Eddi|zuHause>
total mass is 4.7t vs 5.0t, but dv is 1400 vs 400
<Althego>
quite high difference
<Eddi|zuHause>
2t of that is fuel
<raptop>
Doesn't the terrier have like 40% higher Isp?
<raptop>
huh, no
<raptop>
Maybe this is an atmo vs vacuum thing
<Althego>
that must be it
<raptop>
Uh, can you show the craft designs?
<Althego>
if you leave the calculatoir on default it uses sea level
<raptop>
^
<Eddi|zuHause>
ah right
<Eddi|zuHause>
now the difference is 1700 vs 1600
<Althego>
as expected
<Eddi|zuHause>
so the spark is unusually effective in both atmosphere and space?
<raptop>
Yeah. Though less so once you get to somewhat larger craft
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<Eddi|zuHause>
the KER window needs separate body/atmosphere settings for each stage...
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<Eddi|zuHause>
1100 dv is plenty for returning from a mun landing?
<raptop>
Yep
<raptop>
Might end up with 200 m/s to spare if your return is efficient
<SporkWitch>
Eddi|zuHause: you mostly just need sea level and either vacuum or or just before, so you CAN display two (one using stock value in the staging view, one in KER). I generally find that's sufficient, but I also build standard lifters for given payload mass, so I'm also generally not having to worry about getting to LKO, it's the rest of the mission that I need to plan
<packbart>
I usually calculate 600(ascent)+300(return) m/s for the mun landers. that's enough even with circularizing the mun orbit first
<SporkWitch>
Eddi|zuHause: if this your first landing? Many consider minmus to be the easier first destination due to its lower gravity, and it's hard to disagree.
<packbart>
launching from the surface at the right-ish moment allows for a more or less direct return burn, saving some fuel
<packbart>
the first part adds 900(transfer)+300(capture)+800(landing), again some optimization would merge capture and deorbit burn
<packbart>
the trickiest part is making sure that the launch booster does not end up as debris in Kerbin orbit ;)
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* raptop
's handwavey rule of thumb is that surface is mostly useful for TWR, and actual Δv used is likely to be at considerably lower average pressure
<raptop>
Say, 0.5 atm for the lower stage of a 2STO, 0.2 atm for an SSTO
<darkie>
My handwavy rule is 3000ish m/s vacuum dv for 2STO.
<darkie>
It's what the dv maps use, only they use 3400 m/s.
<darkie>
I've got to orbit <3000 m/s.
<darkie>
From Kerbin, ofc.
<Eddi|zuHause>
@sporkwitch it's been a while...
<darkie>
Minmus has lower gravity, but the approach is more complex. With enough dv Mun may be easier, but the landing will be faster.
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<Eddi|zuHause>
so weird when your maneuver node gives you 3 consecutive mun encounters
<SporkWitch>
basically, Buzz Aldrin came up with a type of orbit called a "cycler," in which you have a stable orbit that regularly cycles you between two points, in this case, earth and moon, with minimal deltaV required to maintain this stable configuration.
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<SporkWitch>
the idea is that instead of needing to get your payload all the way to the moon, you only need to manage a rendesvous with the craft in the cylcical orbit
<Eddi|zuHause>
i'm not convinced i have a use case for that at this moment :p
<SporkWitch>
wasn't suggesting you did, just explaining what you encountered :)
<SporkWitch>
also worth looking into what's called a "Free Return Trajectory." Basically, you have a single burn in Earth (or Kerbin) orbit to get you to the moon, this orbit will swing you around the moon, and the resulting change to your orbit puts you on a return to Earth (or Kerbin), potentially not even requiring a deorbit burn.