<egg|zzz|egg>
Thomas: if you feel like doing some teaching there's someone very confused in kspacademia
<egg|zzz|egg>
:-p
<Sigma88>
counfused about what?
<egg|zzz|egg>
calculus, Runge-Kutta integrators, notation, life, the universe, and everything
<Sigma88>
lol
Sigma88 is now known as Sigma42
<Sigma42>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives Sigma42 an aluminium planet with a function attachment
Sigma42 is now known as Sigma88
<Thomas>
an aluminium planet made on magrathea
<Sigma88>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives Sigma88 a graviton egg|egg|egg
<Sigma88>
LOL
<Sigma88>
LOOOL
GregroxMun has joined #Kopernicus
<GregroxMun>
o/
<Sigma88>
0/
<Sigma88>
GregroxMun: working on GN :)
<GregroxMun>
It just occurred to me that if for some reason you wanted to add AKR to SASS or SASSx, AK-Tylo could be a good Callisto.
<GregroxMun>
Sigma88: is there any way to enable the stars from planet packs without having the planet pack installed?
<GregroxMun>
That way I can work on stars without having a bloated game.
<GregroxMun>
if you can do that I can start on GN stars soon
<Sigma88>
yes
<Sigma88>
it's already possible
<Sigma88>
there's a txt file
<Sigma88>
in [DevStuff]
<Sigma88>
rename it to cfg
<Sigma88>
let me look at the name
<Sigma88>
FAKE_INSTALL
<Thomas>
Alternative Installs?
<Thomas>
;P
<GregroxMun>
Sigma, these red dwarfs are just awful
<Sigma88>
that's why I asked you
<GregroxMun>
I will fix the hell out of them
<Sigma88>
:D
<Sigma88>
I blame KillAshley|SEMI
<GregroxMun>
Sloof is the only good red star in the lot but it's based upon a K0III yellow star! (OK officially it's a red or orange giant but I know better than that)
<Sigma88>
:P
<GregroxMun>
Alright, I'll do all the main sequence stars first.
<Sigma88>
sloof is supposed to be a red giant iirc
<GregroxMun>
yes
<GregroxMun>
Arcturus
<Sigma88>
GregroxMun: do you have any good skybox to suggest?
<GregroxMun>
Not specifically for GN.
<Sigma88>
something stockalike
<GregroxMun>
Right now I'm using the ZexySky
<GregroxMun>
which is stockalike
<GregroxMun>
but higher definition
<Sigma88>
do you have a link?
<GregroxMun>
hold on
<Sigma88>
np
<Sigma88>
found it
<GregroxMun>
24 main sequence stars to do. (Not doing Algok or K-Stor yet either.)
<Sigma88>
wait
<Sigma88>
you just need to make a generator
<Sigma88>
not doing all of them by hand
<Sigma88>
I mean, I'd rather if you did that
<GregroxMun>
I was going to use the color generator
<GregroxMun>
but the mass and radius will still be manually defined.
<Sigma88>
ah yes
<Sigma88>
those are already manually defined
<GregroxMun>
I also still need to manually define temperature for each star now, based upon their prototype.
<Sigma88>
yes that's fine, I didn't do that
<Sigma88>
use the number from the wiki article linked
<Sigma88>
if there is one
<Sigma88>
on the right side
<Sigma88>
under "Details" there is "Temperature"
<GregroxMun>
yes I know
<Sigma88>
k
<Sigma88>
:)
<Sigma88>
what is the name of the skybox with all the stars that are very tiny dots
<Sigma88>
but very defined
<Sigma88>
not like the stock which has fuzzy stars
<GregroxMun>
Poodmund's Deep Star Map
<GregroxMun>
or Deep Sky Map
<GregroxMun>
something like that
<Sigma88>
that's not the one I had in mind
<Sigma88>
but it should be a good one as well
<Sigma88>
the one I remember had colored stars
<Sigma88>
like red and blue dots
<Sigma88>
ah yes
<Sigma88>
it's this one
<Sigma88>
now that I see it ingame
<GregroxMun>
Deep Star Map is colored in game, the screenshots are just greyscale for some reason
<Sigma88>
this is wonderful
<Sigma88>
it's impossible to spot the GN stars
<Sigma88>
I mean, they're there
<Sigma88>
but there's almost no way to tell them apart from the other stars in the skybox
<GregroxMun>
sunflares are jittering and flickering, oh boy
<GregroxMun>
when you get up close
<Sigma88>
are you using the custom flare?
<GregroxMun>
yes
<Sigma88>
odd
<Sigma88>
it doesn't do that for me
<Sigma88>
it does that with the stock flare
<GregroxMun>
wait, since when does RevSS have GN?
<GregroxMun>
When did that happen?
<GregroxMun>
wait no it just deletes RevSS.
<GregroxMun>
Presumably needed for SASS-GN, I guess.
<Sigma88>
yes
<Sigma88>
I've asked you and you said you didn't think it would have been appropriate to have revss in gn
<Sigma88>
but I needed the compatibility patch for SASS
<GregroxMun>
As I recall the conversation ended with you convincing me that RevSS would be a good star system.
<GregroxMun>
I think there should be a RevSS star system, but the planets should be in a different configuration from stock.
<Sigma88>
if you want I would be happy to add it
<GregroxMun>
RevSS should go around an M3V star bc we need more M-dwarfs.
<GregroxMun>
Jool shall be moved to the habitable zone, Kerbin and Mun should be trojans of it, Minmus, Bop, and Pol should be moved to orbit Eve in circular orbits, Eve should be moved to where Vall used to be, and Vall should be moved to a distant orbit.
<GregroxMun>
Sigma88: shouldn't StarLuminosity be based off of Bolometric, not Visual luminosity, since it deals with heating alongside solar power?
<Sigma88>
probably yes
<Sigma88>
but I feel we will need to change it anyways
<Sigma88>
because it will end up burning everything on big stars
<Sigma88>
or being useless on smaller ones
<GregroxMun>
Is SLIPPIST-1 compatibility in the plan for the next GN update?
<GregroxMun>
I have to go to brunch now, see y'all later
GregroxMun is now known as Gregrox|BRUNCH
<Sigma88>
Gregrox|BRUNCH: slippist can be added
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
(not quite gone yet)
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
Yes, do add SLIPPIST-1.
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
The names should be the ones used for the starmover version. SLIPPIST-1, SLIPPIST-1 b, ...-1 c, etc
<Sigma88>
do I need to change them?
<Sigma88>
or are they already fixed it?
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
You list the GPP star as G4V, when Wiki lists it as G6V
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
SLIPPIST-1 is by default named Slippist, Beta, Charlie, Delta, Echo, Foxtrot, Golf, Hotel
<Sigma88>
the wiki says 6 but the star they based it on is 4
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
I'm going to make it G6V so it matches with luminosity
<Sigma88>
is there a star in the cfg?
<Sigma88>
let me check
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
It's just moving the star from GPP
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
I guess GPP subtly changes the stock sun, but StarLuminosity is = 1 in the config
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
So I'm going to make it identical to the StockSun
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
the recolored StockSun
<Gregrox|BRUNCH>
But now I got to go
<Sigma88>
Gregrox|BRUNCH: now I remember, GPP was a temporary thing, I want to make a new star, close to ciro, but generated by GN
<Sigma88>
I asked galileo if there is a real life analogue, otherwise you can choose any GwhateverV star has mass and radius close to Ciro
<Sigma88>
Thomas: what is it that handles eclipses in ksp?
<Sigma88>
I can't get stars to eclipse other stars
<Thomas>
Thats set in the lens flare component, and it is not changeable without asset bundle hell
<Sigma88>
ok, but can I do anything to a star to make it trigger an eclipse?
<Sigma88>
maybe add a specific pqsmod
<Sigma88>
?
<Sigma88>
!wa sun radius
<Qboid>
Sigma88: Sun | average radius: 695700 km (kilometers)
<Sigma88>
!wa sun mass
<Qboid>
Sigma88: Sun | mass: 1.988435×10^30 kg (kilograms)
<Sigma88>
!tell Gregrox* GPP star (ciro) is meant to be a GsomethingV star (according to ohiobob who designed it), parameters are Mass = 1.02026735661923 and radius = 0.097946493
<Qboid>
Sigma88: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Sigma88>
wait
<Sigma88>
!tell Gregrox* disregard, wrong numbers
<Qboid>
Sigma88: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Qboid>
Sigma88: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
Gregrox|BRUNCH is now known as GregroxMun
<GregroxMun>
oh boy, here goes
<Qboid>
GregroxMun: Sigma88 left a message for you in #Kopernicus [04.06.2017 16:22:51]: "GPP star (ciro) is meant to be a GsomethingV star (according to ohiobob who designed it), parameters are Mass = 1.02026735661923 and radius = 0.097946493"
<Qboid>
GregroxMun: Sigma88 left a message for you in #Kopernicus [04.06.2017 16:23:31]: "disregard, wrong numbers"
<Qboid>
GregroxMun: Sigma88 left a message for you in #Kopernicus [04.06.2017 16:26:28]: "correct numbers: ___ radius = 1.02026735661923 ___ mass = 0.960512280108992"
<Sigma88>
G3V was the star that fitted the best the parameters
<GregroxMun>
Can I just change the temperature and keep mass and radius to be that of the prototype?
<Sigma88>
but then I showed it to ohiobob and he said that the temperature was off
<GregroxMun>
temperature = 5524
<Sigma88>
what do you mean the prototype?
<GregroxMun>
prototype = real world star
<GregroxMun>
prototype in the same way the Billington E2 Tank Engine is the basis for Thomas the Tank Engine, not prototype in the way that a game demo is a prototype
<Sigma88>
I'd say, either we keep Ciro parameters and state that the analogue is that star even if it has slightly different parameters
<Sigma88>
OR
<Sigma88>
we use all the analogue parameters
<Sigma88>
(radius, mass, temperature)
<Sigma88>
ideally what I want, is having a "protostar" defined for each planet pack, with the least information possible
<GregroxMun>
temperature is close enough to it that I guess it doesn't matter
<GregroxMun>
not "protostar," that refers to infant stars
<GregroxMun>
but I know what you mean
<Sigma88>
in KSP code "proto_whatever" is an object that has been created but hasn't all parameters defined yet
<Sigma88>
:D
<GregroxMun>
ok
<Sigma88>
so, you create a star with just basic parameters
<Sigma88>
then a cfg will calculate everything that is needed
<Sigma88>
in the original star cfg, use "solar masses" "solar radii" and "Kelvin"
<Sigma88>
(I am already starting to convert some)
<Sigma88>
for now I will be happy with having the math figured out
<Sigma88>
you can take a random star, and use excel to calculate the parameters
<Sigma88>
like color and stuff
<Sigma88>
and then look at how it appears ingame
<GregroxMun>
You would have to define both mass and radius though, because you can't calculate that with a simple equation.
<Sigma88>
then we can work out how to apply the math using mm
<Sigma88>
yes
<Sigma88>
mass, radius and temperature
<GregroxMun>
and even then temperature still varies somewhat with mass based upon age and metalicity
<GregroxMun>
ok yes
<Sigma88>
can you make it work with those three?
<GregroxMun>
That's what I've been doing
<Sigma88>
perfect
<Sigma88>
for now it's enough to fix the main sequence
<GregroxMun>
I've done "radius = 1/10 RSS Sun in meters," "mass = 1/100 RSS sun in kg," and then I multiply by the solar units
<GregroxMun>
and Temperature is in Kelvin
<Sigma88>
if the code breaks for giants and other non V we can change that later
<GregroxMun>
It definitely should only be used for V.
<GregroxMun>
Dwarfs do have a better mass-radius rule, so that can be implemented.
<GregroxMun>
s/Dwarfs/Degenerate Dwarfs
<Qboid>
GregroxMun meant to say: Degenerate Dwarfs do have a better mass-radius rule, so that can be implemented.
<Sigma88>
yes, we can make our own rules for those
<Sigma88>
just set a maximun and a minimum and see what comes out
<GregroxMun>
here's what I'm feeling: lens flares need to start appearing further away from the red dwarf.
<Sigma88>
that's not possible to do with ksp
<Sigma88>
it's hardcoded
<GregroxMun>
oh
<GregroxMun>
Then in that case:
<Sigma88>
I can change the look of the flare but not the behaviour
<Sigma88>
I can make it smaller
<Sigma88>
if you think that might help
<GregroxMun>
they should not appear at all below the temperature of maybe not at all below 3715 Kelvin. (When peak wavelength of the light is in the visible spectrum. Maybe not a true fundamental limit but seems good enough)
<Sigma88>
I can generate more than one flare object
<Sigma88>
you want one with just the main sun brightness effect?
<Sigma88>
do we even have stars under 3715?
<Sigma88>
and would it be enough to remove the flare completely? or better to make custom one?
<GregroxMun>
alright this rule should work: Temperature >or= 5772 K, lensFlareColor multiplier = 1. 3715 K < Temperature < 5772 K, lensFlareColor multiplier = mass. Temperature < 3715 K, lensFlareColor multiplier = 0
<GregroxMun>
the star you gave me just now is 3120 K, SLIPPIST is 2800 or something really low like that.
<Sigma88>
multiplier = 0 means black
<Sigma88>
is that right?
<GregroxMun>
yes, but black means invisible
<Sigma88>
ah nice
<Sigma88>
so there's no need of multiple flares?
<GregroxMun>
correct
<GregroxMun>
but I don't know how to make the above rule in MM
<GregroxMun>
so you need to do it
<Sigma88>
yup
<Sigma88>
don't worry
<Sigma88>
what about the temperature range
<GregroxMun>
what about it?
<Sigma88>
are the masses there always <0
<Sigma88>
?
<Sigma88>
<1^
<Sigma88>
*
<Sigma88>
less than 1
<GregroxMun>
oh, I hadn't thought of that.
<GregroxMun>
damn
<Sigma88>
don't worry
<Sigma88>
let's use the color
<GregroxMun>
you know what, this will work and will be simpler:
<Sigma88>
don't worry
<GregroxMun>
Temperature > 5772 K, mult = 1
<GregroxMun>
Temperature < 5772 K, mult = visual luminosity
<Sigma88>
let me test
<GregroxMun>
I think sunAU should have a similar multiplier for stars larger than about 2 solar luminosities, where it should scale with the sqrt of the luminosity. (I can handle that)
<GregroxMun>
well Sigma88, the config you sent me didn't quite work on account of the lens flares being white.
<NathanKell>
Sigma88, cool!
<GregroxMun>
what is it?
<GregroxMun>
ScienceBalance?
<Sigma88>
yup
<NathanKell>
Sigma88: Ah, quick question. Would it be possible to extend the system to have one cap per experiment?
<Thomas>
NathanKell: I could write you a znc plugin that autoreplies to o/ :P
<Sigma88>
sure
<NathanKell>
So when you unlock new experiments you can get more science from the body?
<NathanKell>
Thomas: Hah!
<NathanKell>
Sigma88: Awesome. Because we definitely want to encourage, e.g. later-game Earth surveyors with new instruments
<Sigma88>
NathanKell: I'll add that
<NathanKell>
<3
<Sigma88>
got to eat something now
<GregroxMun>
what problem does that mod solve?
<Sigma88>
too much science
<NathanKell>
Ohhh one other question. Is it an absolute cap or does it vary by game science difficulty % setting?
<GregroxMun>
in RSS?
<GregroxMun>
or is it a problem in Stock too
<Sigma88>
NathanKell: for now it's just a hard cap
<Sigma88>
GregroxMun: one would assume stock is balanced :D
<GregroxMun>
right, sure
<NathanKell>
ah gotcha. Yeah, I think it probably needs to vary by that or it'll defeat the purpose of the gamesetting
<Sigma88>
the problem arises when you are making a planet pack
<Sigma88>
NathanKell: sure, everything can be done
<Sigma88>
just needs some time
<NathanKell>
:)
<Sigma88>
feel free to fill the github issues with suggestions
<Sigma88>
helps keep track of stuff
<NathanKell>
Plenty of time--it'd be for the new-tree RP-0 release anyway, and that's Real Soon Now (tm) rather than the sooner Soon (tm)
<NathanKell>
Sigma88: Will do
<Sigma88>
GregroxMun: so basically if you are making a planet pack, you need to be careful how many biomes you add. to avoid that, I just put a cap on science that can be gained from a planet
<Thomas>
Real Soon (tm) - the new mod made by the RO group
<GregroxMun>
oh yeah, that would be a thing
<NathanKell>
:D :D
<GregroxMun>
Is there a mod that simulates yearly funding instead of just contract-reward funding?
<GregroxMun>
I found out what the problem was with the lens flare I think
<Sigma88>
GregroxMun: what was it?
<GregroxMun>
%something[*] = something
<GregroxMun>
instead of
<GregroxMun>
@something[*] *= something
<Sigma88>
ah yeah
<Sigma88>
my bad
<GregroxMun>
:)
egg|nomz|egg is now known as egg
<Sigma88>
how does it work?
<ferram4>
GregroxMun, I think there is one like that, (something with government funding in the title I think?) but I don't know how often the cash infusions are.
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<GregroxMun>
I'm back
<GregroxMun>
just finished the new Doctor Who
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<GregroxMun>
Sigma88: without the camera ghost things get really weird when multiple distant stars are in view
<Sigma88>
with or without?
<Sigma88>
OH GOD I FORGOT ABOUT DOC WHO
<Sigma88>
WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL ME
<GregroxMun>
sorry
<GregroxMun>
do you normally watch live on TV?
<GregroxMun>
I meant with
<Sigma88>
here it comes out earlier
<Sigma88>
I mean, it's probably the same time
<Sigma88>
but it comes earlier because time zones
<GregroxMun>
The problem with having lens flares on red dwarfs is that the color seems to add to or multiply with instead of average with the star, so it makes the star look white from afar.
<Sigma88>
wait
<Sigma88>
there are 5 textures
<Sigma88>
I mean
<Sigma88>
it's 1 file
<Sigma88>
but has 5 "regions"
<GregroxMun>
yes
<Sigma88>
the big one is the only one you kept
<GregroxMun>
yes
<GregroxMun>
intentionally
<Sigma88>
have you tried keeping all the little ones except for the one in the top left
<Sigma88>
?
<GregroxMun>
yes
<Sigma88>
ok
<Sigma88>
have you tried keeping it for the bright stars?
<Sigma88>
blue through white
<Sigma88>
and orange/red removing it
<GregroxMun>
most of GN's stars are bright ones.
<Sigma88>
you said it looks bad on red stars, no?
<GregroxMun>
the ghosts look bad when you see multiple stars of any type
<GregroxMun>
flares period look bad on red stars
<Sigma88>
ah
<Sigma88>
gotcha
<Sigma88>
I'd like you to test some flares
<Sigma88>
just to see if they can improve the issue
<Sigma88>
give me a sec to generate them
<GregroxMun>
list of possible vulcan suns. (pretty much the only thing we know about it is it's 16 lightyears away. This can be interpreted as low as 15.5 or as high as 16.49):