04:30 <raptop> Oh, come on. The Design Reference Architecture 5.0 is paywalled?

04:30 <Althego> what is that?

04:30 <raptop> Official NASA design study for a Mars mission, with versions from somewhere in the early 90s to 2017

04:31 <raptop> https://sci-hub.tw/https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/5446736?reload=true&arnumber=5446736

04:31 <Althego> in which they copied zubrin :)

04:31 <raptop> well, yes

04:31 <Althego> and doesnt matter. at this point it is irrelevant, elon will be there first

04:32 <raptop> The whole "NASA vs SpaceX" thing is silly because it'll most likely be NASA astronauts in a SpaceX vehicle

04:32 <raptop> But, uh, I wanted to check some things on surface stays and transit times

04:33 <Althego> in that sense it is silly. but the thing is, nasa cant make it this fast, or maybe ever on their own

04:33 <raptop> NASA's crewed spaceflight has been b0rked since sometime in the 70s, yes

04:35 <raptop> "The displayed crewed profile corresponds to the all-propulsive opportunity with transit times of 174 days outbound and 201 days inbound. The crew’s Mars stay time would be 539 days, and the total mission duration would be 914 days."

04:39 <fda_approved> hello everyone

04:40 <raptop> greetings, I think.

04:40 <raptop> Are you edible?

04:41 <raptop> huh, DRA 5.0 favors NTRs

04:43 <raptop> Oh no, it assumes Ares V HLVs

04:43 <fda_approved> i was approved by the fda

04:43 <fda_approved> skeet skeet yeet yeet

04:44 <raptop> ...

04:44 <raptop> Well, I can't say I didn't make an effort

04:54 <Althego> hehe

04:54 <raptop> At present, drilling is still something of an art, requiring an understanding of both the nature of the material being drilled – or, at least, a best guess of the nature of that material – and the equipment being used. While drilling is a candidate for a high level of automation, it is likely that human supervision for purposes of “fine-tuning” the

04:54 <Althego> you dont need ntr

04:54 <Althego> just as zubrin said

04:55 <raptop> operations and intervening to stop drilling would remain a hallmark of this activity. Core samples would be retrieved by the crew and put through an appropriate curation process before eventual analysis.

04:55 <raptop> yeah, also the good news is that their assumptions about metholox engines are probably more conservative than reality (yay, raptor)

04:55 <Althego> hehe

04:59 <raptop> Anyway, that's not an especially long PDF. Even if it's very NASA

04:59 <raptop> granted, it's just a summary

05:00 <raptop> ...NTRS is down

05:01 <Althego> probably no nuclear rocket

05:02 <Althego> but there could be some rtg based power generation on board for martian stay

05:02 <Althego> i liked the kilopower reactor

05:04 <raptop> more reactors would be cool

05:08 <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TL7eUh4yuI

05:09 <raptop> ...parts of that are orange-hot?

05:10 <Althego> during operation, yes

05:10 <Althego> basically it is an rtg with a stirling engine

05:10 <Althego> which has higher performance than thermocouples

05:11 <Althego> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLE5YFuCmhw

05:12 <raptop> ASRTG?

05:12 <raptop> ah, not quite

05:12 <Althego> well, it is a very simple reactor, that you can turn on or off

05:12 <Althego> so not really rtg

05:13 <Althego> but almost as simple

19:34 <Althego> hah i got the sandcastel again

19:35 <Althego> warpology.com/k/castle_new.png

19:36 <Althego> http://warpology.com/k/castle_new.png

19:40 <raptop> All hail hypnocastle

19:42 <Mat2ch> Alanonzander: how?

19:42 <Mat2ch> Oh, I meant Althego.