Deddly changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.9.1 KSP2 NaN | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Type "chanlog" for logs | Practice social distancing, join IRC TODAY! |
<packbart> it's all cryptocapitalism ;)
* packbart spends some Funds
<JVFoxy> again... not that I can afford anything as it is
<JVFoxy> or if I can, it doesn't really last too long. just telling a friend, knowing my luck, something seems to always come up, suck away teh last of my money then some
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<flayer> i'm going to try and send two separate vessels to jool and stay within 2 km the entire trip
<flayer> i think i can do it if i slowly accelerate on each burn, using about 4-5 burns (say 2 to get to solar orbit, 2 to encounter jool, 1 for a laythe intercept)
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<hatrix> finished relay network report https://imgur.com/a/BKI3O5d
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<Althego> managed to move the test result viewer web2py application from debian 6 to 10
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<sandbox> ugh I think my battery is dying
<darsie> 100 EC battery? :)
<sandbox> CR2032
<sandbox> I have plenty of spares
<darsie> What's it for? bios?
<sandbox> yup
<Althego> how old is it?
<sandbox> 6 years I think
<Deddly> Those batteries are so annoying.
<Althego> yes that is already aging
<Deddly> Annoying in the sense that it's the same price to buy 10 as it is to buy 1, so you end up with a bunch of them kicking around in a drawer somewhere, and you forget about them by the time you need another one, so you buy 10 more
<Althego> why is it not a capacitor?
<Deddly> Capacitors are not ideal for storing energy for long periods without receiving a charge
<Althego> but that i i
<Althego> it is not long periods normally
<Althego> at most a few days
<Althego> then it would recharge when you tur the machine on again
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<Deddly> Batteries are also much smaller
<Althego> and a lot more annoying
<Mat2ch> Althego: aging? I've never changed a bios battery for the last 15 years or so
<Althego> in my old p1 when it was around 8 years old it was depleted
<Althego> i replaced it with two aa bateries :)
<Deddly> Surely how long they last depends on your uptime
<Deddly> That just means that Mat2ch hardly ever turns his machine off :P
<Mat2ch> Deddly: ;P
<Mat2ch> :D
<Mat2ch> well, for me they could just use a powercap...
<Mat2ch> :P
<Mat2ch> also this battery shouldn't have much to do these days. Everything is store in flash memory, only the time has to be counted up
<Mat2ch> so the self discharge of the battery should be much higher than what is used of it :D
<Deddly> Talking of which, battery is running out on this machine
<Althego> actually the time is not important
<Deddly> Not the CMOS one, mind
<Althego> because it can just ntp upon boot
<Deddly> ntp?
<Althego> network tiem protocol
<Deddly> Ah
* Deddly remembers back in the day, when he used to regularly change the system date and time so he could keep playing time-limited demos
<Mat2ch> Yeah, that's another thing
<Mat2ch> but not every computer is connected to the interwebz ;)
<Mat2ch> Deddly: those were the days. ;)
<Deddly> On the Amiga, the date and time wasn't the least bit important
<Deddly> Gotta go, seeyas
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<sandbox> I remember the rollercoaster tycoon demo had a timer :P
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<hatrix> is there a mod to create groups in the tracking station?
<hatrix> I'd like to group sats related to the same mission
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<packbart> CommnetConstellation
<packbart> ( https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/158851-191-commnet-constellation-v153-22-march-2020/ )
<hatrix> put a network around Armstrong: https://i.imgur.com/gYk5Rvb.png
<hatrix> it's working fine :)
<packbart> oh, right, you mant just grouping them in the tracking station?
<packbart> +e
<hatrix> yep
<packbart> I have that on my "could be useful" list but haven't tested it
<hatrix> ah nice :)
<hatrix> since I'm playing with the most difficult settings I'll have a lot of relay networks to send
<hatrix> it will quickly become messy
<flayer> damn, my modified dynawing shuttle thingie is really hard to control with a full cargo XD
<flayer> and i have at least three more launches to go
<hatrix> oh packbart <3
<hatrix> I can rename vessels from the tracking station now
<hatrix> how come that's not in stock
<flayer> i can do that in stock
<flayer> it's a ways to get there though
<hatrix> I can't create groups with this mod but at least It's grouped by bodies now
<flayer> that tracking station mod looks sweet
<flayer> it is really extraordinary how our view of the universe has grown since we started putting stuff into space
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<Judge_Dedd> Wow I finally found a mobile IRC client that seems to be modern and good.
<hatrix> which one?
<hatrix> I'm using ssh to connect to my weechat, It's kinda bad
<hatrix> the relay doesn't seem to be working anymore
<Judge_Dedd> Revolution IRC
<Judge_Dedd> I got it from F-Droid
<Judge_Dedd> No ads, either, which would have ruined it
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<flayer> 9 years into the space program and i've finally hit on the 255 parts limit of the vab level 2
<Judge_Dedd> Heh. Yeah, L3 is pretty overkill
<VanDisaster> back before autostruts, not so much
<Judge_Dedd> Depends on your build style
<Judge_Dedd> But yeah, struts add up quite quickly
<flayer> i mean, i have far too many septratrons
<Judge_Dedd> Especially back in the Floppy-Rocket era when you needed to brace them out from the body of the rocket with the Cubic Octagonal Strut for vertical strutting
<Judge_Dedd> (praise be its name)
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<kmath> YouTube - SpaceX Starship News with SN5, SN6 and SN7, Crew Dragon to be reused for Crew flights, Starlink
<Althego> the movingdo diagram is interesting
<Althego> moving dot
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<Apple7> hi
<Mod9000> Hello, Apple7
<Apple7> no
<Althego> hehe
<Apple7> heHe
<Althego> i try to not provoke the bot
<Apple7> I |
<Apple7> ok
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<Mat2ch> that was weird
<Althego> just as expected
<darsie> hi
<Mod9000> Hello, darsie
<Althego> and this is why i said i try not to provoke the bot
<Althego> because it doesnt take into accoutn who came in. replies to hi and hello
<sandbox> Hello, Althego
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<darsie> Othello
<hatrix> how can I compute the Δv required for an ascent on a planet with an atmosphere?
<Althego> you dont
<Althego> measure it
<Althego> that is how the delta v maps were born
<hatrix> isn't there a way with the density or something?
<Althego> too complicated
<Althego> you have to have some drag model
<darsie> hatrix: You'd have to consider sub- and supersonic air resistance, gravity losses ...
<Althego> also even the map is just an average
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<darsie> Changing Isp as pressure decreases
<Althego> you can go below those values with high twr
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<darsie> You would make a model and simulate ascent.
<hatrix> I'll stick to the map then
<Althego> basically you would nee to reimplement the game physics again
<darsie> Or go by trial and error. Build rockets and see which ones get you to orbit.
<darsie> Would you like the result be ground level or vacuum Isp delta v, or real delta v?
<hatrix> vacuum I guess, but that's only because I'm used to it
<darsie> That's not actual delta v, then.
<darsie> I wonder how close pros like spacex can estimate this. Like, how much fuel will be left when they reach the target orbit.
<darsie> Say, with SSSH.
<Althego> probably somewhat simpler, since most the fuel is expelled in almos vacuum
<darsie> mhm
<darsie> Well, most dv happens in vacuum, but a lot of fuel is burned during ascent.
<darsie> Do they jettison the fairing during first stage burning?
<Althego> i think it is second stage for spacex
<Althego> even though even meco is well in space
<hatrix> why isn't this contract completed? https://i.imgur.com/sxp9tuv.png
<hatrix> there's an antenna and solar panels
<Althego> build a new unmanned probe
<Althego> not new
<hatrix> it is though
<darsie> You used recycled parts.
<darsie> Did you build/launch it after accepting teh contract?
<hatrix> I launched two probes and I copied the one I just made, is that why?
<hatrix> yes
<hatrix> they're both on the same rocket
<darsie> One probe fulfilling two contracts, not sure if that works.
<darsie> Or one rocket.
<hatrix> no no I got two in a fairing
<Althego> that should work
<hatrix> maybe that's because I copied the probe core instead of adding it via the panel on the left in the VAB
<Judge_Dedd> You definitely accepted the contract first, and then build and launched the rocket?
<darsie> Copied with right shift-LMB?
<hatrix> I don't remember the keys, it's muscle memory but yeah darsie
<hatrix> yes Judge_Dedd
<Judge_Dedd> I can't see the text on that image
<darsie> Testing two components on one rocket worked: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot320.png
<hatrix> haha i like it
<darsie> :)
<Althego> if you get an early lv-n test contract you dont complete it
<Althego> but use the part
<Althego> btw you dont actually need to have fuel for the test :)
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<Shoe> can we all circlejerk about how bad the questions in the spacex ama is
<Shoe> i need to see someone else feeling as irrationally angry as me at some of these people in order to feel good
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<Mat2ch> Shoe: I have the feeling that that j-word is not appropriate for this channel
<Shoe> Mat2ch: j word?
<Shoe> i haven’t said anything that starts with j
<Mat2ch> it's part of that circle thing
<Mat2ch> but now I've learnt that they're using chromium for the touchscreens
<Mat2ch> and I want to cry
<Mat2ch> very very loud
<Mat2ch> A webbrowser in fullscreen
<Shoe> Mat2ch: electron, not chromium
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<Mat2ch> it's still a bit stupid to use something this bloated for a user interface on a spaceship
<Mat2ch> what happend to good and clean code?
<Mat2ch> I mean, drawing things on a computer display is not hard
<Mat2ch> there are frameworks out there that help you
<hatrix> maybe they needed libraries they were too lazy to recode
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<hatrix> also might be easier to find developpers
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<Mat2ch> and then used a huge bloated software thing so that webdevelopers (the worst kind of developer ;P) can create the UI?
<hatrix> I'm sure someone has thought this through
<hatrix> ask them :)
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<Mat2ch> hatrix: I've seen so many things now. Nobody really thought this through.
<hatrix> now that I think about it I get it
<hatrix> we've got awful critical software here also
<Mat2ch> This was a choice by taste. Maybe because on of the project managers really likes electron and/or developed something with it
<Mat2ch> "it's fast to market", "we can test in the browser and then just upload it to the craft"
<Mat2ch> See what I mean?
<hatrix> yeah
<Mat2ch> There are so few people out there who are really good at software design (and I don't count myself in either)
<Mat2ch> and so many bad ones.
<Mat2ch> But I at least try to do things properly, even if it makes me itch
<Mat2ch> (sometimes you have the choice between pest and cholera and you can only do damage control)
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<Althego> lol browser for gui
<Althego> on a spaceship
<Althego> stupidest thing eveer
<hatrix> nice screen picture darsie
* darsie flew a twin boar like this to orbit and splashed down soft: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot323.png
<hatrix> how did you enclose the stayputnik?
<darsie> I didn't.
<darsie> Contract: Test the twin boar on the launch pad. :)
<hatrix> ah, ok
<hatrix> I'll try to launch my probes again
<hatrix> hopefully it'll work this time
<darsie> g/
<darsie> gl
<Althego> as i said, thetest works without fuel too
<Althego> so you need an emppty tank, a probe core and an engine
<Althego> press spac
<Althego> test done
<darsie> yeah :)
<darsie> But I'm a thorough tester :).
<darsie> Acquire 2300 units of ore from Eve and land them on Gilly. Hmm ...
<hatrix> ouch
<darsie> I could do it in batches :).
<Mat2ch> Althego: it doesn't stop at the software
<Althego> other solutin when i cared about that: put doen the engine upside down
<Mat2ch> today I saw an interview with Greg Kroah-Hartman and he talked a bit about linux kernel development
<Mat2ch> and about drivers
<Mat2ch> and in one case a company made a new chip, which ran at double the speed of the bus than before.
<Mat2ch> But there was no way to determine automatically what chip you have in front of you.
<Althego> lol
<Althego> let me guess, had to run a small test
<Mat2ch> I recommend installing a webcam on the chip and reading the label ;)
<Mat2ch> He rejected the driver ;)
<hatrix> let's try that again https://i.imgur.com/KWKFAEh.png
<hatrix> ok the "new probe" thing is ticked now :)
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<Shoe> Althego: javascript is the future of UI, as much as we hate it
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> that was prophesized long time go
<packbart> I don't really hate it (much)
<darsie> The new lunar surface station departs from the fuel depot in LKO: http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot324.png
<FLHerne> > Of course we play KSP :)
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<darsie> The Ant and Oscar B served as crumpling zone for landing.
<Althego> i was wondering what the station was
<Althego> i didnt recognize this as a station
<darsie> Rolled to the target.
<darsie> The thing with 5 seats.
<Althego> why not 6
<darsie> Contract asked for 5.
<Althego> but 6 is easier to do
<darsie> I have a mod that can do 5 ;).
<darsie> EEX
<bEagle> oh no 5
<darsie> Plus, 5 is more comfy :).
<bEagle> like that thing is comfy to begin with
<darsie> :)
<bEagle> :) to you too :D
<darsie> It's just the beginning. It may be expanded wiht the docking port :).
<Althego> hehe
<darsie> The lander can is for refuelling jetpacks etc. Tourists have to get in an external command seat to receive fuel from Munfrey, as they can't leave the capsule once they enter.
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<JVFoxy> wait... tourists can sit on the seats?
<bEagle> that's...wrong
<darsie> JVFoxy: They can. At least in 1.7.3.
<darsie> They can't leave capsules, though.
<darsie> Someone tell me if they still can in 1.9.1.
<JVFoxy> ah ok.. I hadn't gotten quite that far in the tech tree in most games to get the chair yet
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<bEagle> there are so many things the wiki doesn't know
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<darsie> Add it.
<Black_Eagle> no.
<darsie> Munvey*
<JVFoxy> Black_Eagle as in what sort of tihngs?
<Black_Eagle> ah, lots of things like aerodynamics and tourists leaving seats and so forth
<Black_Eagle> i don't remember all of them rn but it's not uncommon for me to stumble upon something the wiki doesn't know
<Black_Eagle> anyway
<Black_Eagle> i'm sorry but i must head to bed
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<hatrix> this network is starting to look like something finally https://i.imgur.com/UN593yI.png
<darsie> Where is that?
<hatrix> in a galaxy far far away
<hatrix> that's the Beyond Home system
<hatrix> I was getting bored with the stock planets
<hatrix> I like to calculate stuff, in the stock game I didn't need relays anymore :(
<JVFoxy> Parts had drag values but now I think that is tweeked a bit depending on how they are connected to other things/
<packbart> hmmyeah, that Tracking Station mod looks nice. I think I'll try it
<hatrix> definitely useful
<hatrix> I could argue it lacks custom groups but that's already better than nothing
<JVFoxy> relay networks... that time I found someone's 'scatternetwork' video.. laser show much?
<hatrix> displaying all vessels isn't a good idea :)
<hatrix> I usually go with path
<packbart> I used "CommnetVisualisation" for that. It shows only the paths (of all vessels) instead of all the links
<packbart> Now I use its parent "CommnetConstellation" and use different "frequencies" (and colors) for different networks, like "local", "Kerbin SOI", "InterNet", et.
<packbart> needs more antenna parts, though
<JVFoxy> ... a little over done maybe? https://i.redd.it/kbqcvawecrd21.jpg
<hatrix> do you have screenshots packbart?
<hatrix> that's awfull JVFoxy :)
<JVFoxy> not mine.. I was trying to find another pic, but concept is about the same
<JVFoxy> can't say the PC would be too happy about it.
<flayer> flying through some clouds hoping not to hit mountains
<darsie> Someone tell me if tourists can sit in command seats in 1.9.1.
<flayer> i gotta do something about the landing (nose is pointing up in the air lol), but everybody's safe
<JVFoxy> any landing you walk away from, is a good landing. Unless its on the moon...
<JVFoxy> ... sorry crash landing that is
<packbart> hatrix: no, sorry, I can't find the sandbox save with a larger network and my current career doesn't extend beyond Minmus, yet :)
<JVFoxy> I've barely reached out past Minmus... figured if I ever do, get out to one of other planets, then maybe I can 'join the club'.
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<kmath> <nextspaceflight> SpaceX has been given NASA approval to fly flight-proven Falcon 9 and Crew Dragon vehicles during Commercial Crew f… https://t.co/6LTxpKpSGA
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<hatrix> I don't understand that tweet packbart, care to explain?
<raptop> They may refly the Dragon capsul that took Bob and Doug to the ISS
<hatrix> it was named endeavour?
<hatrix> I only know a space shuttle with that name
<raptop> Yes, like the british ship and the shuttle
<hatrix> oh ok so not the same
<hatrix> I was confused
<hatrix> properly confused
<raptop> fair enough
<hatrix> I pictured a space shuttle atop a falcon 9
<packbart> it seems to be a tradition to name "historically" new ships Endeavour. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endeavour#Transport
<packbart> and they had to make everything look Apollo-like, of course ;)
<JVFoxy> kept thinking of that ship display in Star Trek: TNG, of all the ones named Enterprise
<JVFoxy> I guess Dragon doesn't make it up there
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<Mat2ch> well, refly doesn't mean it will take astronauts
<Mat2ch> they could just reuse it for cargo flights
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<hatrix> anyone played with Principia here and got some feedback?
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