Deddly changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.9.1 KSP2 NaN | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Type "chanlog" for logs | Practice social distancing, join IRC TODAY! |
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<Black_Eagle>
lowne released an interesting video concerning take-two and ksp 2
<Deddly>
Did he add anything significant to the Bloomberg article?
<Black_Eagle>
unsure, haven't read the article
<Deddly>
Ah OK. I read the article and later saw he had a video, but I haven't seen it
<Black_Eagle>
ok, checked the article: probably nothing new
<Deddly>
I guess we knew something was wrong when they suddenly took KSP2 in house
<Black_Eagle>
yup
<Deddly>
I don't think we're likely to get any in-depth response from T2. They are also under NDA, presumably.
<Black_Eagle>
yeah... it's a shame
<Black_Eagle>
i'm not sure i'm going to buy ksp 2 unless something else happens
<Deddly>
I was sad when I read the article, but I'm wary of one-sided reporting
<Black_Eagle>
of course
<Deddly>
News outlets themselves often have famously unethical business practises. They have a financial interest in putting out sensational stories.
<Black_Eagle>
if any of the news is true then ksp 2 is likely also a cash grab
<Deddly>
I think it's unrealistic to believe that any company the size of TakeTwo would invest in something as expensive as KSP must have been without intending to make a lot of money on it
<Deddly>
From that one article, there are a few important insights: 1) Star Theory was in financial trouble (and were trying to sell to TakeTwo).
<Deddly>
2) TakeTwo would have been aware that this would seriously disrupt the development process, which would not be in their favour
<Deddly>
3) They offered to hire the entire crew of a failing company
<Black_Eagle>
hmmm. that's a good point there
<Deddly>
4) Patrick Meade from Star Theory was absolutely in it for the prestige and money: "he wouldn't have the same degree of influence or financial benefits"
<Deddly>
So, without any more information than this one article that was based on interviews with five people who disrespected their NDA in order to be a part of the story, it seems like the prudent thing for me to do it not get involved in what was, and should remain, an internal business dispute.
<Black_Eagle>
i'm not sure about the last point - a lot of people are driven by other things than money or prestige. for all we know Meade could just be frustrated with corporate policies and prefers being his own boss
<Deddly>
As I said, this is according to the article
<Deddly>
So any and all points may be wrong :)
<Black_Eagle>
ok financial benefits i kinda get
<Black_Eagle>
but the upside of having influence over what you're doing and how you're doing is significant
<Deddly>
Sure. To be clear, I'm not defending TakeTwo here. I have no inside information
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<Black_Eagle>
aye
<Deddly>
I'm just saying that it might be a good idea to be sceptical when a news outlet publishes something like that, with only a single source and no statement from the other party (which is what journalists are supposed to do, by the way)
<Deddly>
With those same interviews, another news outlet could have spun it a different way. "Media giant TakeTwo takes pitty on the little guy - saves entire development crew"
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<Deddly>
As for anyone planning not to get KSP2, well, all I can say is that I applaud your integrity and willingness to make personal sacrifices to stand up for things that are important to you. I hope you do that same in all areas of life.
<Black_Eagle>
I hope you're not being sarcastic
<Deddly>
No, that was a sincere comment.
<Deddly>
People should do that more. If everyone voted with their wallets against unethical treatment of people and animals, there wouldn't be mass deforestation, child labour, pollution and exploitation.
<Black_Eagle>
Well, I try to! (in other areas of life, too)
<Deddly>
But most people are willing to sacrifice those things because they want something for themselves.
<Deddly>
Good for you, Black_Eagle.
<Black_Eagle>
I'm still a little bit away from preaching to others
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<Black_Eagle>
but on the topic: i'm not sure if i'm making the right decision in boycotting T2 but their record with KSP 1 hasn't been flawless. i for one don't like the paid DLCs. I kind of get one if it adds a lot of content but the ones we've seen don't really add anything a good mod couldn't add
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<Deddly>
I think the Robotics DLC adds so much content that it's definitely worthy of the asking price, personally. Making History... not so much
<Black_Eagle>
should i buy robotics?
<Deddly>
But, you know, DLCs were not TakeTwo's idea. Squad were planning DLCs since at least 2013
<Black_Eagle>
weren't they intending for the DLCs to be free, though?
<Black_Eagle>
ah, right
<Deddly>
They were never intended to be free. They gave them free to people who bought the game before the end of April 2013 because of a misunderstanding, and TakeTwo has honoured that
<Black_Eagle>
fair
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<Deddly>
Making History has some nice parts, by the way. I love the structural plates
<Deddly>
But it's pretty expensive if you are only interested in the parts and don't care about the mission builder.
<Black_Eagle>
i'll get a dlc once they start printing more .625m engines, tanks and other stuff
<Deddly>
Breaking Ground, though... full-on robotics (hinges, motors, programmable controller), propellers and helicopter blades, motors... plus all the science and exploration stuff
<Black_Eagle>
but even then i gotta think twice if i want to support t2
<Deddly>
Yeah .625 is a very neglected size
<Black_Eagle>
one mod i tried (!!!) had some 625 parts and it changed everything
<Deddly>
.625 SRBs are soooo nice, though
<Black_Eagle>
for example a small nuke
<Deddly>
Are the mini SRBs in the stock game or are they DLC content?
<Black_Eagle>
i just like making tiny space planes and i wonder if i could make a Lf only but with moar boosters
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<Judge_Dedd>
chanlog
<Mod9000>
I keep channel logs here: bitcoinshell.mooo.com/users/deddly/?C=M;O=D
<Judge_Dedd>
You mean LF + SRB?
<Judge_Dedd>
We're not talking about SSTO, presumably?
<Judge_Dedd>
SRB+Xenon would be a good combination for a mini spaceplane
<UmbralRaptop>
The new boosters have lots of ΔV, even the small one (just mind the payload)
<Black_Eagle>
Judge_Dedd: indeed lf+srb and one stage (to get rid of the srbs)
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<Black_Eagle>
but srb + xenon sounds interesting too
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<Mat2ch>
packbart: yeah, no idea what to think of it. Did Star Theory screw up? Was it a hostile overtake?
<Mat2ch>
What happend there?
<Judge_Dedd>
Mat2ch, see backscroll
<Judge_Dedd>
Black_Eagle and I were talking about it a little while back
<Judge_Dedd>
Black_Eagle, I think SRB+Xenon is an interesting idea because the ion thrusters do come in size 0
<Mat2ch>
Judge_Dedd: but that's so much too read ;)
<Mat2ch>
will do anyway
<Mat2ch>
but first, SN6 thrust structure flip
<Mat2ch>
flip it!
<Mat2ch>
flip it now!
<Judge_Dedd>
What's SN6?
<Judge_Dedd>
Oh wait, are we talking about Starship?
<Judge_Dedd>
They have SN6 already?
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<Mat2ch>
SN4 was blown up, SN5 is waiting for the test stand to get ready and SN6 is already getting stacked
<Mat2ch>
SN7 has some parts done and also we might have seen parts for SN8
<Mat2ch>
At that rate we might see tests with SN5 next week
<Judge_Dedd>
Cool. What's the "structure flip" about?
<Mat2ch>
That's the part where the engines are mounted to
<Mat2ch>
they weld this upside down, which makes it easier I guess
<Mat2ch>
and then it has to be flipped
<Mat2ch>
and after that they can stack everything else ontop of it
<Mat2ch>
Judge_Dedd: adding to your discussion: Voting with the wallet is something you have to have the privilege to. Many people life just day by day and have to go for the low-cost things.
<Mat2ch>
And that's how they also buy games, which are a cheap recreation choice, when you don't want to watch tv
<Mat2ch>
Well, this might scratch politics here, so I'm going to stop
<Judge_Dedd>
Valid points.
<Judge_Dedd>
I don't think it's gone into politics quite yet, but I can see how easily it could do :)
<Judge_Dedd>
Thanks for the explanation about the flipping structure
<Mat2ch>
Then let me add one last sentence: We live in a very complex world and I spent too much time each day already trying to make sense of it. And I'm well educated and therefore very privileged, but I still can't comprehend it all. Many others don't neither have the knowledge, nor the luxury of time to do this. Also it slowly drives me mad, because I have often have to do decisions between
<Mat2ch>
buying the cheap stuff and therefore supporting exploiting workforce or just stay hungry
<Mat2ch>
Also I watch the SN update videos, so ask if you want to know more :)
<Mat2ch>
(I want more robots doing the labor intensive work!)
<kmath>
<nickwalton00> Someone on Reddit used AI Dungeon to generate Coronavirus advice. It started out pretty good and then got creepy... https://t.co/Z8spk6aCjp
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<Judge_Dedd>
Nice, if it's true
<Judge_Dedd>
"someone"
<Judge_Dedd>
I dunno. I read that as "I made this. Would have been funny if it came from an AI"
<Althego>
wow scott released a video when i could have watched it
<Althego>
but i was not looking for it because i was working
<Mat2ch>
"working"
<Mat2ch>
;)
<Mat2ch>
I did some funky c++ stuff today and I'm not ashamed of it.
<Mat2ch>
also I haven't tried them yet. So could still be crap ;)
<Mat2ch>
Works. Nice. Noone should know. ;)
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<Judge_Dedd>
Interesting. I just found out that Atheism is defined as a religious belief in Sweden
<Althego>
dont worry, no taxpayer money is wasted on the fuel, since jets dont even use fuel to begin with :)
<Althego>
ok in this case turboprop, but almost
<Althego>
idiotic conspiracies
<VanDisaster>
and rockets dont' work in space because there's nothing to push against, right? :D
<Althego>
yes, that too
<Althego>
rockets hit the dome, cant fly out of low earth orbit because of van allen belts, the moon is just a light in the sky, etc
<packbart>
I wouldn't stand 5G for long, either
<packbart>
-5 would be worse, though
<Althego>
ah yes, 5g causes covid-19
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<Mat2ch>
boring. That's just holding loops, because the runway is not clear
<Mat2ch>
also boring, they're landing at Stornoway
<Mat2ch>
no, they're climbing again
<Mat2ch>
and flying back. So, now you can start your conspiracy theories. I say training flight ;)
<packbart>
or just testing runways that haven't seen any planes in a while before the passenger planes arrive
<Mat2ch>
They didn't touch down on Stornoway
<Mat2ch>
on? in? at?
<Mat2ch>
and all the other airports see a few flights per day
<Mat2ch>
but nothing like before
<Mat2ch>
(and hopefully never. I fear for this summer, I have no AC )
<packbart>
the new office doesn
<packbart>
err, doesn't have one installed, yet, either
<Mat2ch>
oh no, they're turning
* Judge_Dedd
reads backscroll
<Judge_Dedd>
Rockets don't even try going to space. Watch any launch - they go sideways! They even say so if you listen in on the secret chat that they accidentally broadcast every time
<Judge_Dedd>
They say "pitching downrange"
* Judge_Dedd
feels dirty for writing that
<packbart>
well of course they go sideways, then drop below the disc and get eaten by the turtle
<packbart>
everybodyknowsthat
<Judge_Dedd>
OH RIGHT! That's what it's all about! They have to feed the turtle otherwise it will swim underwater looking for food and we'll all drown
<Judge_Dedd>
And it'll flood the hollow earth completely
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<Althego>
what if... earth is flat AND hollow?
<Althego>
then it would float nicely without the turtle too
<VanDisaster>
a hollow 2d structure
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<Althego>
flat does not mean it needs to be without thickness
<Althego>
flat earther phrase: water is flat and level
<Althego>
flat also doesnt mean level
<sandbox>
cat earth, if it was flat, the cats would have pushed everything off it by now
<Althego>
oh yes, jets dont use fuel, but jet fuel cant melt steel beams :)
<darsie>
Argon can melt steel beams, too.
<hatrix>
found my problem, I forgot that a day was 6 hours
<hatrix>
so my calculations were all wrong
<Mostly_Deddly>
Ah, you were on metric days
<hatrix>
now I need to get the maximum distance I can used for my satellites
<hatrix>
so that I know how many I need in my relay network
<packbart>
two sats with a HG-5 each can talk up to a distance of 5000km. that's a bit short for synchronous orbit?
<Althego>
hmm, can be, i always use them as relay around kerbin, and then they jsut need to commuicate with hte nearest ground station
<Althego>
which is closer
<Althego>
but actually i never cared for synchronoous orbit
<hatrix>
my calculations say the distance between the sats is 4959.43km :)
<Althego>
because 3 is enough except for the poles
<Althego>
unless you use some special mod, you dont need to put them in kerbin sync orbiy
<VanDisaster>
I only ever used one synchronous sat doing RT
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<VanDisaster>
stuck it over KSC just to act as a huge antenna
<hatrix>
what orbit would you use for a relay network around kerbin ?
* packbart
just drops a triangle of relays around Kerbin, Mun and Minmus - and maybe one or two over the poles
<packbart>
although I was thinking about actually trying to set up the patented tetrahedral constellation in $this career
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<packbart>
(I used this table to cheat the orbits in a sandbox - https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/155188-orbital-parameters-for-a-tetrahedral-satellite-constellation/ )
<kmath>
<✔NASAInSight> After several assists from my robotic arm, the mole appears to be underground. It’s been a real challenge troublesh… https://t.co/6EqYXRDkdh
<Althego>
save the mole
<packbart>
unless you plan extensive missions around the poles, the equatorial 3-sat triangle usually is good enough and far easier to set up, imo
<hatrix>
ok now I need to figure out how combining antennas work, the wiki makes it difficult to understand
<hatrix>
one H-G5 per sat is not enough for Rhode :/
<VanDisaster>
I can't find any sensible screenshots, I think these are from my first RT game ... apparently my answer to "which orbits" was "yes" - https://imgur.com/a/dpQL1Dp
<packbart>
well, if you ignore the arbitrary "combination factor", the equation is simple. sqrt((range1*n1)*(range2*n2))
<hatrix>
what's n1 and n2?
<packbart>
most antennas use 0.75, iirc (not sure if that shows up in the part info)
<packbart>
the number of antennas of the same type
<hatrix>
and that gives the rating of the vessel?
<packbart>
so, a relay with 5 RA-100 talking to a probe with a single HG-5 would have a max distance of sqrt(100G*5*0.75*5M), so, uh, about 1.3Gm, if I didn't botch the calculation?
<JVFoxy>
'Going launch a MURP!' 'Sorry.. did you burp?'
<JVFoxy>
Ah well.. some alternate-history material...
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<JVFoxy>
Heh.. 6 tourists into orbit. Ok so.. just stick two Mk1-3's back to back
<Althego>
or take one pilot with you in an capsule and a hitchiker, at least there is somebody to drive
<Althego>
and has better shape
<JVFoxy>
huh... all six females
<Judge_Dedd>
Are they singing?
<Judge_Dedd>
They could be the Space Girls
<JVFoxy>
ya only I did the mk1-3+hitchike can thing doesn't exactly like re-entry.. at least not straight
<darsie>
2.5 m cargo bay with command seats is most economic.
<Althego>
hehe
<darsie>
Can make two rings with 8 seats each.
<Althego>
then you dont even need the cargo bay, just the seats :)
<JVFoxy>
I've got a system where the two mk1-3s will separate from each other, land on their own shutes
<JVFoxy>
*chuts
<JVFoxy>
blah.. ok wahtever
<JVFoxy>
can't do command seats, not unlocked yet
<JVFoxy>
ok granted, its a seat, but unlock is at the 300 tier?
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<JVFoxy>
huh.. know anyone named Robin in the space industry? Or this just by chance? Robin Kerman..
<Althego>
hehe
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<JVFoxy>
and away we go
<Althego>
and when that kerbal is fat, the nickname is round robin
<Mat2ch>
the puns are hanging low today
<JVFoxy>
so fat, your kerbal has its own gravity well
<Althego>
i dont know anybody famous related to space with the name robin
<JVFoxy>
aw... can only do 5 kerbal portaits.. guess one kerbal left out unless I scroll over one
<darsie>
Can't transfer crew to a command seat.
<Althego>
5?
<Althego>
i think you can increase the number of images qu9te a lot
<JVFoxy>
you can add or take away slots
<Althego>
but may depend on screen resolution
<JVFoxy>
mostly depends on screen res
<JVFoxy>
running 1080
<Althego>
yes that is pretty small
<JVFoxy>
well I aint trying to run 4k
<JVFoxy>
I used to run 720.. could only get two at a time
<Althego>
we need a mod that poses all the kerbals in the rocket for a picture
<Althego>
possibly in front of the vab or the rocket
<Judge_Dedd>
I don't like launching people in command seats. Seems cheaty
<Althego>
yes even i hold myself to the principle to have some kind of cabin for the crew
<Judge_Dedd>
Also, I like to imagine that I'm giving real people a ride rather than min-maxing in a game. So I want them to have a nice capsule to ride in
<Judge_Dedd>
And, if possible, the craft should look cool - something that a rich person might want to pay a lot of money to have a ride in
<JVFoxy>
ya... gotta have standards. ;)
<Althego>
just ask the gutamaya corporation :)
<JVFoxy>
Althego: I had thought of a mod that would add a museum of sorts to your spaceport..
<JVFoxy>
hadn't considered the 'posing with craft' idea...
<Althego>
like first craft in orbit, firstc raft on the mun, etc?
<JVFoxy>
ya something like that.. I guess I took inspiration from Project Gotham Racing
<JVFoxy>
They had a carshow sort of thing you could Firstperson through, look at the cars.
<Althego>
how big the museum would be?
<Althego>
with original size replicas?
<Althego>
or some miniatures?
<JVFoxy>
lol... might have 'tweekscale' a bit.. I guess? It was mostly an idea at the time
<Althego>
even humans have some real spacecraft in museums
<Althego>
mostly the reentry part
<Althego>
except for the shuttle
<JVFoxy>
NASA's first space battle cruiser on display.. (like in the Battlestar Galatica remake anyone?)
<Althego>
although that is the reentry part
<JVFoxy>
shuttle, part rocket, part spacecraft, part airplane.. er wait.. glider
<JVFoxy>
some people would say brick with wings, but it actually does glide. A brick would just go straight down
<Althego>
it glides with the same ratio as the osprey
<JVFoxy>
laden or unladenned?
<Althego>
african or european?
<JVFoxy>
seen mention of airspeed of a swallow, but they weren't sure if it was on an empty stomach or full
<packbart>
clay or concrete?
<packbart>
do not underestimate the aerodynamics of a good brick ;)
<Althego>
must capsules returning are an even more brick like object
<Althego>
and they still fly a little
<Althego>
oh btw, flying brick, when is the mars 2020 launch?
<raptop>
The Apollo CM had an L/D of what, 0.5?
<JVFoxy>
that story.. they were testing airplane windows by shooting birds into them with a cannon. Couldn't figure out what was going on, all the tests were failing. Someone asked, 'did you remember to thaw the birds first?'
<JVFoxy>
lol.. was thinking, SpaceX really on a roll.. going to Mars already?
<Althego>
it was called 2020 for so long that i always forget it has a real name now
<Althego>
hehe yes on a roll for explosions with the starship
<JVFoxy>
Raptop I still remember the episode Mythbuster did on the subject
<Althego>
and we still dont know why it exploded last time
<Althego>
the border crossing thing?
<raptop>
"before switching to fake birds, the U.S. Air Force traditionally launched frozen ones."
<JVFoxy>
frozen bird vs warm shot against window
<Althego>
ah the bird thing, i thought catapult means the border crossing
<JVFoxy>
Althego didn't Scott say he thinks a fracture in the base possibly caused it?
<Althego>
even if he thinks, we dont know
<Althego>
spacex probably knows already
<JVFoxy>
... canon = catapult?
<JVFoxy>
eh anyways..
<packbart>
catapults are not the best launchers. you'd reach the highest speed deep in the atmosphere and you'd still need a second stage to accelerate to orbit
<Althego>
just get rid of th eatmosphere
<packbart>
call the Mega Maid
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
the password is 1...
<Althego>
hehe when i was still in simulation, and in the itar room, we were required to have a closable safe. as soon as it arrived i changed its code to 12345 :)
<Althego>
(there was never anything important in it. a small ball, a horn, a poem about the GA project, stuff like that)
<JVFoxy>
I woulda 54321 just to mess with people
<JVFoxy>
or 911...
<Althego>
no it had to be 12345 because of the movie
<Althego>
911 is the service menu of the asys transports
<Althego>
also 199
<Althego>
an even more service menu
<JVFoxy>
I knew of the move ref
<JVFoxy>
friend I used to visit would play it in the background at home all the time as something to kill the silence. Didn't care much for music
<JVFoxy>
I guess it can be either way... though aeroshell can also be used
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<JVFoxy>
I remember reading something a while back, talking about how strict and formal punctuation and the likes are becoming a bit less relevant in the age of typing...?
<JVFoxy>
maybe I'm thinking of the double spaces after the period and how its not really used any more?
<Althego>
never a space comma :)
<Althego>
space comma, it can happen to you too
<Althego>
another really dumb thing i hate. the hungarian language is almost completely phonetical. except for a few things. like j and ly. both denote the same sound. but for proper written words you have to know which one to use. really annoying useless vestige
<JVFoxy>
each language has its own nuances.. ya..
<JVFoxy>
wee... now to do a mun orbit mission, but first, pickup someone who got stranded in LKO along the way.
<JVFoxy>
lol.. whoops, go to tap pitch up key, instead hit X, cut all engines
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<kerbal_man>
hello
<Mod9000>
Hello, kerbal_man
<raptop>
\o
<darsie>
.
<raptop>
sudo chmod +x /usr/jkerman
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<packbart>
CommnetConstellations fixed the bug with flickering commnet lines in the map. I like. That bug kept me from using it. Now antennas have network numbers/"frequencies" again
<packbart>
it also helps with the disbelief and gives the "probe control point" some use.
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