Deddly changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.9.1 KSP2 NaN | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | Type "chanlog" for logs | Practice social distancing, join IRC TODAY! |
<darsie> :)
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* packbart goes to file a bug that stacked command seats do not "support at least ten kerbals" ;)
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<Webchat942> hello, i am having trouble completing a satellite placement contract, the orbit that it wants is pretty much the exact orbit of Ike and it has to be above a certain point on the planet which Ike is already occupying 🤔
<ObservatoryRaptop> Sounds like a bug
<Webchat942> am i allowed to post screenshot links?
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<Webchat942> i didnt see any rule against it in the rules so here it is
<ObservatoryRaptop> You are allowed, and in fact, it is encouraged as screenshots help to explain things
* ObservatoryRaptop pokes Deddly with a stick. Is this a known bug?
<ObservatoryRaptop> (Duna orbit contract pushes an orbit inside Ike's SOI)
<ObservatoryRaptop> Probably related: https://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/24752
<Webchat942> ikes sphere of influence seems too big in general, but i guess its nearly the size of duna itself 😅
<ObservatoryRaptop> Yeah, Duna-Ike is sort of like Pluto-Charon
<ObservatoryRaptop> Well, not quite. Ike's only 6% the mass of Duna
<Webchat942> according to the ksp wiki ike and duna are tidally locked so this contract definitely seems impossible
<ObservatoryRaptop> yeah, it seems to be
<Webchat942> thanks for the help 😃 at least now i have my first satellite outside of kerbin
<packbart> well, for a contract to finish, the satellite just needs to stay on orbit for 10s
<packbart> even if it would crash into Ike later on
<Webchat942> the orbit would need to be inside ikes sphere of influence though
<Webchat942> it has to be above a certain point on duna, and since ike and duna are tidally locked i cant get there
<packbart> no problem as long as the probe itself stays out of it until the contract finishes? ah. hmm
<packbart> ok, for a synchronous sat, that's a problem. I see :)
<packbart> (you *could* edit the contract parameters in the save file ;)
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<Althego> you could just edit the point to be on the opposite side :)
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* ObservatoryRaptop likes that idea
<Althego> or go to the opposite side and cheat the contract to be completed
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<ObservatoryRaptop> Anyway, consider a solar sail: https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.03111
<Althego> 7000 square meters?
<ObservatoryRaptop> yep
<Althego> that is huge
<Althego> ok not huge
<Althego> but i think way bigger than anything before
<ObservatoryRaptop> Yeah. Also, apparently there was an earlier proposal with > 28000 m^2
<Althego> hehe... how much does a polar bear weigh? enough to break the ice
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<ObservatoryRaptop> KBO sizes https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.03113
<ObservatoryRaptop> also rings
<kmath> YouTube - Take-Down of Thermaltake's Engineering & Marketing
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<ObservatoryRaptop> presented without comment: https://arxiv.org/abs/2006.02944
<Althego> detecting Planet 9 via a sub-relativistic spacecraft fly-by and the measure of its Hawking radiation in the radio band
<Althego> sound like sci-fi to me
<ObservatoryRaptop> Assumed: Planet 9 is a primordial black hole, and that laser sail craft are build/launched
<Althego> as i said, sci-fi
<ObservatoryRaptop> Incidentally, this has the best figure https://arxiv.org/abs/1909.11090
<Althego> do we want it to be a black hole?
<ObservatoryRaptop> (bottom of page 5)
<Althego> that would make the solar system really strange
<ObservatoryRaptop> Some physics people do. I'd hope for a super earth/sub neptune, really
<Althego> but we would gain an insteresting object relatively close by
<Althego> yes we need a super earth
<Althego> there are already some unusual features in the solar system, the less we have, the better it is for probable life elsewhere
* ObservatoryRaptop eyes the moon uneasily
<Althego> the sun already is not exactly the most common type, then it rotates slowly, and then we have this unusual moon. we also dont have a super earth, and having a black hole on top of that would be just weird
<ObservatoryRaptop> The sun is adequately common. I'd still wait for at least JWST (and maybe HabEx) before making any definitive statements about the habitability of M-dwarf planets, though
<Althego> always only a few years more :)
<ObservatoryRaptop> lolsob
<Althego> what would the head of nasa say if rocket with jwst exploded on the launchpad? easy come, easy go
<ObservatoryRaptop> aaaaaaaaaaaaa
<Althego> (there is this joke where the lumberman goes each day to the forest to fell trees. he sells the trees for a small amount of money. after 20 years he goes into the city to gamble, puts all his money on a number, and loses. easy come, easy go)
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* Deddly just watched "The first man". Why didn't they call it "Camera shake simulator"?
<Althego> hehe
<Deddly> And also, when they burn prograde in orbit, it's like warp speed
<Deddly> The earth just zooms off in the distance
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> remember the scene from first contact when they launch the rocket?
<Althego> and i am like: no, you dont go straight up
<Deddly> I don't remember that
<Deddly> But it was such a long time ago since I saw that film, I wouldn't have been educated by KSP
<Althego> you reminded me to this because of warp speed
<Deddly> Ah
<Deddly> I liked Star Wreck: In the Pirkinning as a parody to that film
<packbart> Aye
<Mat2ch> Althego: with the warp thingy you do go straight up
<Althego> yes but it launched on a rocket
<Mat2ch> because you don't need an orbit
<Mat2ch> And old icbm
<Althego> and in the scene you could see them being more than 1000 km up and still going up
<Althego> before they went to warp
<Mat2ch> which is totally possible
<Althego> ok, what if the warp drive fails
<Althego> you fall back straigth down
<Mat2ch> yep
<Althego> it would be still safer to just remain in orbit
<Mat2ch> Depends
<Althego> also they never explained how they survived reentry
<Mat2ch> did you see any sign of a rentry possibility?
<Althego> no, not really
<Mat2ch> Yeah, that's what bothers me the most
<JVFoxy> was probably left open for later figuring out?
<Mat2ch> Technically you could jump to warp when you upward motion is nearing zero
<Mat2ch> and then jump back at a very low altitude
<Mat2ch> then you would fall, but accelerate pretty slowly
<JVFoxy> ya but any ships ever tried warping into atmos?
<Mat2ch> somebody should try this in RSS :P
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> yes these are viable
<Mat2ch> JVFoxy: 200 km up is almost no atmosphere, but falling down will be not that deadly
<Althego> but not really for an early prototype
<Althego> say i am the inventor and i intend to launch on my own rocket. would i do it like this? no way
<Mat2ch> Have drogue chutes, deploy them early
<Mat2ch> Althego: depends of if you wanna get back or not...
<Mat2ch> *depends on
<FLHerne> Althego: To be fair, if you think it's *close* to working, falling back into the atmosphere is the least of your potential problems
<FLHerne> ISTR that flaky warp drives are interesting to be around
<JVFoxy> trying to figure out how the ship go back down.. feeling Enterprise might have helped in some way..?
<Althego> istr looks like a fortran intrinsic function
<Althego> but again, unless cochran was planning for a suicide, he could not have taken that into account in his original design
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<FLHerne> According to Memory Alpha, effects of misconfigured warp drives can include a "wormhole effect", hyperspatial distortions, improbably rapid genetic mutation, or just destruction of the ship
<FLHerne> So anyone terribly concerned about their personal safety should just refrain from piloting experimental warp spacecraft at all
<JVFoxy> ah here we go
<FLHerne> Oh, it can also cause time travel
<FLHerne> of course
<darsie> The guy in the expanse who invented the fast drive died.
<FLHerne> Same in the Honorverse, I believe
<darsie> Acceleration was too high for him to reach out to turn the drive off.
<JVFoxy> so.. star trek warp drives, at least the primitive ones had issues around gravity fields.
<Deddly> They always do, don't they? That's why they use impulse thrusters
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<darsie> I thought impulse was to get away from space stations.
<darsie> Maybe to not tear them apart with positive or negative space warp.
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<TheKosmonaut> IIRC in ST they were not allowed to use Impulse near stations.
<TheKosmonaut> Though ST and consistency around space maneuvering is like asking Deddly not to be an oppressive moderator, they're incompatible.
<darsie> How did they get away from stations, then?
<TheKosmonaut> "thrusters"
<packbart> by scraping their hull along the dock
<darsie> IIRC they used 1/4 impulse near stations.
<darsie> But thrusters are impulse.
<Deddly> packbart, hehe, I know that film ;)
<TheKosmonaut> No
<TheKosmonaut> Thrusters and Impulse were different
<darsie> There could be magnetic impulse, too.
<darsie> Or light pressure.
<darsie> Or, indeed, physical contact.
<TheKosmonaut> Inside spacedock, the vessels in the federation were limited to thrusters which are chemical
<Althego> except if you are captain kirk
<TheKosmonaut> Althego: that is a star trek constant
<TheKosmonaut> All rules apply, unless K is in the equation
<darsie> So impulse is ion propulsion while thrusters are chemical?
<kmath> YouTube - Leaving spacedock ST6.wmv
<Althego> just got to love uhura and spock
<TheKosmonaut> The funny thing w/ the movies is they always seem to just say to hell with it when it comes to their established* propulsion/mechanical rules
<Deddly> TheKosmonaut, Kirk could also use impulse and Twist drive whenever he wanted
<Deddly> Sorry, I mean Pirk
<TheKosmonaut> The problem w/ impulse is that time dilation becomes a factor
<Althego> twist drive?
<Deddly> Althego, Star Wreck :)
<Althego> yes it is a factor if you are using to move fast enough
<TheKosmonaut> But again, Impulse seems to change in every season and indeed from season to season
<TheKosmonaut> Then you get Inertial Dampening systems which are super magic
<TheKosmonaut> effectively reducing the mass of a vessel
<Althego> super secret higgs field nullifier
<packbart> (so, just in case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GOoMowFpZs )
<packbart> 2005 even
<Althego> hehe all too familiar ship shapes
<TheKosmonaut> Shot in 2.39:1 at that
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<Judge_Dedd> the
<Judge_Dedd> TheKosmonaut, I always imagined inertial dampers were an application of artificial-gravity tech
<TheKosmonaut> Also magic
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<Althego> and how does gravity change the mass?
<flayer> i'm sleepy
<Mat2ch> Althego: depends on how gravity works...
<TheKosmonaut> IDs were a combined use of the artificial gravity and the structural integrity field
<Althego> ah another magic phrase
<Althego> what is structural integrity field
<TheKosmonaut> TECHNOBABBLE
<Judge_Dedd> Universal translators are also magic
<TheKosmonaut> Technobabble is great, because every explanation just brings a new word into the lexicon
<packbart> "An overloading [Inertial Dampening Field] has the opposite effect of most Applied Phlebotinum, causing a greater inertial effect, usually culminating in a Star Trek Shake" :) ( https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/InertialDampening )
<Althego> also structural integrity field is the weakest shield in tyrian
<TheKosmonaut> You want to realign your inertial dampeners?
<TheKosmonaut> Try reversing the polarization on the tachyon emitters
<TheKosmonaut> You tachyon emitters are not primed? Have you considered inverting the EPS manifold pressure?
<TheKosmonaut> No such luck eh?
<TheKosmonaut> Ok, here's an idea...
* TheKosmonaut grabs random object
<TheKosmonaut> this is the ship
* TheKosmonaut throws ship into rubbish bin
<packbart> shunt all power from the life support to the deflector. that usually works
<TheKosmonaut> now go look inside and find a solution, because they're all pretty much trash
<flayer> i'm tired
<TheKosmonaut> packbart: To do that, you will need to manually change the particle flow by going through 10km of Jefferies' tubes
<TheKosmonaut> better send the captain and first officer on such a perilous mission
<packbart> a good sonic screwdriver will revert the polarity of the neutron flow in a jiffy
<TheKosmonaut> What? You have a superpowered android that doesnt need to breathe and is practically indestructible?
<TheKosmonaut> Dont send him, keep him at the helm, operating the ship BY HAND
<Althego> hehe
<TheKosmonaut> You have a holographic doctor that can literally not be killed?
<flayer> lol
<TheKosmonaut> Nope, he needs to have feelings in his office for a girl that only lives 5 years
<Althego> yes, the ship computer should be quite capable since it can run intelligent holo characters in its spare time
<flayer> but the photon emitters or some such don't reach in the jeffery tubes!
<Althego> so why exactly do they depend upon human interventin all the time?
<packbart> unions
<Althego> yes i know it wouldnt be interesting
<TheKosmonaut> You have a rogue AI hologram that can leave the confines of the holodeck, is super intelligent, and wants to find a life of its own? AND it's taken on the personality of Dr. Moriarty from teh Sherlock HOlmes novels?
<TheKosmonaut> Better not explain how he got off the holodeck
<flayer> TheKosmonaut, they were on the holodeck the entire time!
<TheKosmonaut> So holograms, like data, are used as a sort of metaphor for racism
<TheKosmonaut> which is why theyre in the show to begin with
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<TheKosmonaut> It's revealed in an episode of VOY that the Doctor's EMH program was refitted to mine dilithium (or some other magical element) in harsh conditions
<TheKosmonaut> The EMH also proves that his program can be expanded, to the point where he is functionally human.
<TheKosmonaut> He can age, if so desired
<TheKosmonaut> He was able to expand his knowledge through more conventional means, as demonstrated through the show
<flayer> sigh
<TheKosmonaut> But Starfleet-- humans, show that they had little to no regard for the question of his sentience.
<TheKosmonaut> That said, an entirely holographic fleet would make sense
<TheKosmonaut> There's also an episode where a ship is more or less derelict and run by a hologram as it limps back to home
<TheKosmonaut> What I never understand is how they let Barkley get away with so much through his life
<TheKosmonaut> THat dude should have been locked up like 20+ times
<Althego> was under alien influence when he stole the ship :)
<TheKosmonaut> Yeah, but he also went against SF's orders to regain comms w/ voyager
<packbart> because only he knows how to fix "Error -23A"
<Althego> idiotic orders
<TheKosmonaut> He became a rogue intelligence that attempted to overthrow the Enterprise
<TheKosmonaut> he had a romantic relationship with a hologram of someone's likeness
<TheKosmonaut> That's an entirely different rabbithole
<TheKosmonaut> Dude was a freak
<TheKosmonaut> Althego: Yeah, the show demonstrates time and again that SF is pretty stupid
<Althego> the only difference is, today we cant project our fantasies :)
<TheKosmonaut> Though Picard has been really beating a dead horse
<TheKosmonaut> Which, btw, I really enjoyed the first season
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<sandbox> my parents saw an AWACS in the sky today
<sandbox> unidentified of course
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<Althego> hehe
<Althego> which europe or usa?
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<sandbox> Althego, british
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<Mat2ch> but AWACS are usually flying radar domes
<Mat2ch> and for todays problems it's better to have camera drones...
<Mat2ch> well "problems"
<Althego> in the uk it might have been one of the uk e-3d, not the usual e-3a that is in europe or usa
<Althego> hehe, xkcd. the coax
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<Webchat655> Helloo, I haven't heard much about this topic but what is the aerodynamics of KSP 2 going to be like? Will there be more parts etc etc?
<raptop> we don't know
<raptop> I mean, the devs are talking about more parts on the propulsion side, and having stuff to do on other worlds, but beyond that...
<Althego> at this point we can be happy if ksp 2 happens at all
<raptop> Anyway, FAR exists for a reason
<packbart> ah, the atmosphere. that pesky barrier between launchpad and space
<raptop> It does help with slowing down at least. Shame about the heat
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<packbart> well, use a sterling generator to power the EM drive for landing
<Althego> stirling?
<packbart> oops, right
<packbart> not the silver coin
<Althego> i never liked the stirling generator in surviving mars
<umaxtu> I'm picturing Jim Sterling turning a crank
<UmbralRaptor> Yes, that's definitely how it works
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<raptop> Bah, no althego
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<hatrix> what's the line of sight of KSC for commnet?
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<hatrix> it appears I can connect even though I can't technically see the KSC
<raptop> Uh, there's a setting for over the horizon capability, and it's a bit more of planets with atmospheres
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<hatrix> I'm trying to get the maximum distance that needs to be covered by a sat in orbit for the commnet
<packbart> yeah, commnet sees Kerbin some 25% smaller by default. occlusionMultiplierAtm = 0.75
<packbart> if that's what I think it is
<hatrix> ooh ok nice
<packbart> hmm, no that's a weird way to look at it
<packbart> anyway, you could argue that the radiowaves propagate in the atmosphere around the curve
<packbart> I'm not sure what the base radius is. could be just to account for terrain
<hatrix> so something like that for a geosync orbit? https://htx.fr/images/2020-06-09_22-18-12.png
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<packbart> possibly. I'm just going by the name of the parameter and I've seen commnet lines passing through the surface. I don't how it works exactly :)
<hatrix> yeah should be fine
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<flayer> haha, kerbals can climb on another
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<hatrix> ≃ 3492 km for a geosync orbit (2863 km)
<hatrix> ah no, how does the radius work here
<packbart> actually, occlusionMultiplierVac = 0.9 by default
<packbart> though I tend to set it to 1
<hatrix> ok I'll restrict myself, I'll just assume the SOI is at 90°
<packbart> huh. Line of sight and loss of signal share the same acronym. from LOS to LOS
<hatrix> euh oups
<hatrix> I was thinking about "li"-ne
<hatrix> and then "of"
<packbart> my parser came up with two alternatives, both valid
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<Mat2ch> it's animated!
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* darsie built a proper Mun space station ... kinda, you know me :) http://bksys.at/bernhard/temp/screenshot340.png
<darsie> joining the two was fiddly.
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<darsie> Mun surface*
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