00:04 <Bornholio> tyaedalis are you on still? Regardless have you got the alternate dlls and both dev branches loaded onto a 1.2.2 install?

00:04 <Bornholio> https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/wiki/Setting-up-for-Development-Install-:Temp-Page:

00:06 <Bornholio> engine upgrade purchases in science/tech nodes screen isn't going to do anything but you should be able to properly purchase them in the engine config selection UI in VAB

00:08 <Bornholio> there is a intermitent bug still that sometimes you buy parts in science/tech nodes and they cost nothing

01:46 <Starwaster> ppl

01:47 <Starwaster> So wha's a really good durable keboard? No too expensive but a good quality one?

01:50 <Tyaedalis> i'll try those dll's, but i think i already installed them. I see that no-cost bug as well, but I can't access any of the engine upgrades from anywhere.

01:51 <Probus> Under a $100 or less than that Starwaster?

01:54 <Starwaster> definitely under $100, I don' have ha much

01:54 <Starwaster> THAT

01:54 <Starwaster> goddamn t and YYY key yare going ou

01:54 <Probus> Ha! You need one fast!

01:55 <Starwaster> his isn' a good environment and it's hard on keyboards

01:55 <Starwaster> I've been through 4-5 kebyyyyyyboards in he pas ten years

01:55 <Tyaedalis> Mars?

01:56 <Starwaster> may as well be

01:56 <Starwaster> aTHTRTGRTd

01:56 <Starwaster> at first I thought it was just cat hair builtt up under he keyys and I cleaned i out and it seemed to be ok but now it's failing again

01:56 <Probus> I've got a couple Corsair keyboards. My favorite is the K70 red backlit. Different choices of switches. They are very durable at least for me.

01:57 <Starwaster> so I keep going htrough keyboards and keep falling back on reall old PS2 ones like htis 19 ear old HP

01:57 <Tyaedalis> i'm on a corsair right now; seems solid to me. I got it as a second hand gift.

01:57 <Starwaster> like literally 19 years old, it says Win 98 on the bottom

01:57 <Probus> Its had a good life then

01:58 <Starwaster> I had a logitech that was like that. It was old and battered and I kept trying to retire it but all my new and fancy mice kept failing and I had to drag out the old mouse

01:58 <Starwaster> it was probably about 20 years old

01:59 <Starwaster> it finally died for good and I replaced it with another logitech and this one seems to be doing ok. Basically the same model but improved. It's using the same AA batteries for almost two years now I think... or 1.5 years more like it

02:00 <Starwaster> the older logitech would go through a leastT 4-6 pairs a year

02:00 <Starwaster> last time I tried to buy a mouse it was almost $200 bucks and it's dead

02:01 <Starwaster> so... Corsair then... I'll check it out

02:03 <Starwaster> ugh... that might be too pricey... least expensive is $49

02:52 <Rokker> Bornholio: woooooo looks like we are considering putting B-52s back on 24 hour alert

03:37 <ProjectThoth> Hmm.

03:37 <ProjectThoth> Is 2.4 km/s an unreasonable estimate for gravity losses?

03:37 <ProjectThoth> (across an ascent to orbit)

03:37 <ProjectThoth> I mean, it feels steep, but I've been surprised before.

03:58 <blowfish> seems a bit high

04:47 <blowfish> is there any way of telling why a particular astronaut can't be used for a particular mission?

04:59 <blowfish> specifically, I have a pilot with X-1 proficiency that isn't being filled into the conic cockpit

05:00 <blowfish> hmm, now that I have the conic cockpit unlocked, I see a duplicate X-1 training course

05:00 <blowfish> maybe there is some issue there?

05:02 <Bornholio> rokker that is not a good thing, but yeah it may be necesary. From what i understand guam has some "alert" bombers right now but conventional warheads

05:03 <Rokker> Bornholio: ur not a good thing

06:38 <soundnfury> blowfish: done Mission training as well, not just Proficiency?

07:24 <fishbowl> soundnfury: it isn't an option

07:28 <blowfish> as in, I can't enroll that particular pilot in that particular course

07:30 <blowfish> (either of them, since they are duplicated)

11:00 <Probus> Good morning!

11:02 <Maxsimal> good morning

11:02 <Qboid> Maxsimal: NathanKell left a message for you in #RO [13.10.2017 01:58:30]: "Spaceplane wings appear in that node instead of the following (Prototype Spaceplanes) node because I didn't want to have *four* clones of the pwings, so I stuck with three. Really there should be X-15-rated pwings in the 1959 node, and the true spaceplane wings reserved for the later one. Note that the X-15 was actually *less* he

11:02 <Qboid> at-resistant than it could have been; the"

11:05 <Maxsimal> !tell NathanKell: Ah that makes sense.(regarding p-wings) Sorry I've been away a bit. However, question for you - should re-entry capable wings even be in that next node? The shuttle was the first real space-plane, the X-15 would never have been able to survive reentry from orbital speeds, yes?

11:05 <Qboid> Maxsimal: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.

11:43 <Starwaster> "The shift supervisor then deceived the radiation control supervisor and entered the room of the incident; this was followed by a large nuclear reaction that irradiated the shift supervisor with a fatal dose of radiation, possibly due to an attempt by the supervisor to pour the solution down a floor drain."

15:59 <schnobs> o/

17:11 <Maxsimal> o/

17:39 <schnobs> egg, may I pester you once more?

17:39 <schnobs> Recently, I came across this gem:

17:39 <schnobs> "The plane of the orbit of departure is inclined [...] 23.5°. The oblateness of the earth causes a slow but continuous retrograde motion of the nodes [...] which results in a cyclic change of the angle between orbit of departure and ecliptinc between the extreme values of 47° and zero."

17:39 <schnobs> The period of this nodal regression for the orbit of departure is approx. 90 days.

17:39 <schnobs> Inasmuch as the instant of departure is governed by a certain required position of earth and mars relative to one another, and is thus well known in advance, it is easily possible to situate the nodes of the orbit of departure at the beginning of the assembly operation in such a manner that on the day of departure the orbit will be parallel to teh plane of the ecliptic.

17:40 <egg> makes some sense, yes

17:40 <schnobs> simple Q: can this be *planned* in principia?

17:41 <egg> yes?

17:41 <egg> where is this from btw

17:41 <schnobs> von braun's scratchbook.

17:41 <egg> but put yourself in such an orbit, schedule a prograde ejection burn, move its timing til it's within the ecliptic

17:42 <egg> (prograde = tangent, and I mean in ECI)

17:42 <egg> you probably want to look at the whole thing in a sun-fixed frame thereafter (or maybe ecsa or whatever)

17:42 <schnobs> The 1952 Mars Mission plan, devised after the US were done with V-2 exploitation but before he had another assignment.

17:43 <egg> (might be sluggish, since your flight plan needs to last 90 days to cover the whole precession, and moving the node around 90 days of orbits doesn't sound fun; I don't have a good answer for that)

17:43 <egg> but it's *possible*, if tedious/inconvenient

17:44 <schnobs> .... OK.

17:47 <schnobs> I'm not too fond of the "just bring enough dV and make things up as you go" school of mission planning.

17:47 <schnobs> Even though in effect it is what I'm actually doing.

17:49 <schnobs> However, my idea of "enough dV" tends to be based on a detailed plan, even if I usually don't manage to follow it to the letter.

18:01 <schnobs> How do I get from exhaust velocity in m/s to ISP in seconds? Just divide by 9,81m/s²?

18:17 <egg> yeah and swear copiously at whomever decided seconds were a decent unit for that

18:18 <egg> (Ns/kg as an acceptable more explicit alternative to m/s)

18:19 <egg> schnobs: as for planning from the ground or even earlier with principia, we'll have to think about how to enable that at some point, but it seems fundamentally tricky

18:23 <schnobs> I'm used to planning with Hyperedit and "Markup Satellites". So if Principia offered me to chose an arbitrary-but-fixed trajectory as the basis for my maneuver planning...?

18:23 <schnobs> Not sure if I should promote it too much, it just hapens to be the mest method I know and can handle.

18:24 <schnobs> But yeah, "let's just assume that I'll be here in 355 days, never mind how I get there" would be neat. Fixed, so that when I do get there I have something to aim for.

18:24 <egg> schnobs: yeah that actually sounds reasonable, needs a lot of thought about the details

18:25 <egg> (also probably low on our endless list of priorities at the moment)