Deddly changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program 1.6.1 official channel | Rules: http://archive.is/5bp8u | PM ops as needed | ΔV maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | RIP Opportunity, January 25th 2004 - February 13th 2019 o7 |
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<Draconiator> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PveVwQhNnq8 - this video's pretty neat.
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<Deddly> Does anyone know the equivalent word for "flotilla" but for aircraft?
<Deddly> Squadron?
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<Gasher[work]> squadron is like about 12 aircraft?
<Deddly> It is?
<Deddly> You're right. 12-24
<sandbox> I was thinking wing
<Deddly> It's really weird. I'm looking at this sentence and it's about what the company provide. It says "Air navigation services for military aviation for [word for "flotilla"] or elsewhere in the airspace."
<Deddly> I'm assuming that "flotilla" only works for ships, right?
<Deddly> I actually think they are talking about an air base
<Fluburtur> oh damn, listening to minecraft soundtrack hits right in the feels
<Deddly> Minecraft does have excellent atmospheric tracks
<sandbox> yup
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<Eddi|zuHause> minecraft has more than one track?
<Eddi|zuHause> <Deddly> I'm assuming that "flotilla" only works for ships, right? <-- i'm not qualified to judge this, but my observasion is that a lot of aviation terms were taken from marine terms, so it wouldn't surprise me if people in that area would understand it that way
<Deddly> True
<Eddi|zuHause> well, i'm not qualified in at least 3 different dimensions, 1) i'm not native english, 2) i'm not familiar with aircraft terms and 3) i'm not familiar with marine terms either
<Eddi|zuHause> and the only place where i ever heard the word "flotilla" was in some space game
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<Deddly> :)
<VanD> flotilla is a naval term, yes
<Gasher[work]> well he was asking about air fleet so :)
<VanD> as in a formation, or the general term for a lot of aircraft?
<packbart> "a flock of wings"
<packbart> scnr :)
<VanD> a flotilla is specifically a bunch of small ships, not a terribly useful word :D
<packbart> anyway, that joke led me to http://www.answers.com/Q/What_is_a_group_of_aircraft_called "The organization of an air force is made up of Wings, Groups, and Squadrons"
<Deddly> Yeah, each with a specific number of aircraft
<packbart> I see. so a flock it is then
<Deddly> But the context here makes me think they were talking about a military air base
<Gasher[work]> like, a contents of a certain airbase? like, units which currently use it and operate from it?
<VanD> you can use fleet for aircraft, but usually that's for all the aircraft in an organisation
<Gasher[work]> it does not fit here though
<VanD> sub-sqn levels of airforce? "flight"?
<Deddly> Yes, Gasher[work], the organisation occupying and operating from an airbase
<Gasher[work]> gtg
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<Rolf> LOL read about flat earth foolish people
<Rolf> they grouped up and bought a $20,000 gyro
<Rolf> they thought it would stay just standing on whatever its set
<Rolf> but it was rotating at 15 degrees a hour. gee I wonder lol
<Rolf> so they decided to call it error somewhere in gyro setup. yeah :P
<Deddly> Naturally.
<Deddly> That is precious
<Rolf> indeed ;p;
<Deddly> Haha the video clip at the bottom of that article
<Rolf> yeah
<Deddly> That makes me want to see the series
<Deddly> Every flat earther should do experiments like they are doing. Eventually they'll find out. The problem with most of them is that they blindly believe what people spout in their favourite corner of the internet
<Deddly> For all the "don't believe it unless you see it with your own eyes" talk, they are surprisingly trusting when it comes to pseudoscience conducted by other people
<Rolf> yeah
<Rolf> ironically they think experts is fakes
<Rolf> so as soon as one of em becomes a real expert..
<Rolf> fake!!
<Deddly> I'm gonna start a conspiracy story that the internet is fake. The government installed some AI software on my computer that makes me think I'm browsing
<Rolf> lol
<Rolf> omg new discovery, any group you agree with is faked!
<Deddly> You, even YOU are fake
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<JVFoxy> huh... nice cargo plane I made, too bad its got that stupid roll to the side issue. :\
<Deddly> JVFoxy, you mean the borked wheel thing?
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<JVFoxy> no...
<JVFoxy> get into the air, plane wants to roll to one side, as if I was missing a wing part or control surface.
<JVFoxy> I suspect its the body lift not mirroring issue again
<Deddly> Ah that
<JVFoxy> though.. when gave my tail plane daheidral, it started to bank the other way.
<Deddly> It bugs me when that happens. But sometimes there can be logical explanations
<Deddly> Sometimes, it can be due to flex in the joints, which autostruts can alleviate
<JVFoxy> ok ya.. its bad, one notch trim right roll, it keeps it level but ... slowly will still bank
<Deddly> Pic?
<JVFoxy> sec
<JVFoxy> don't see the 36ton full fuel tank inside... seems to fly better with nothing.. maybe it is straining a little
<JVFoxy> I hate mounting engines on the wing.. they actually connected to body, just shifted way out
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<Deddly> Does it roll with the engines off?
<Deddly> In other words, in a glide?
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<JVFoxy> it shouldn't...
<Deddly> It's either the engines twisting or a joint in the wings or tail
<Deddly> The way to find out is to eliminate one possibility after the other
<JVFoxy> ya I know...
<JVFoxy> trouble is, I see this same problem in even small craft..
<Deddly> So my recommendation is to try gliding with the engines off
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<JVFoxy> I did a landing... a true proper landing, throttle down to 10%, soft glide, soft landing, mind you no load inside
<Deddly> I would also try flying it with the rudders removed
<JVFoxy> hmm... well glided fine..
<JVFoxy> I had done another jet.. similar design based off BAE regional jets, it was passenger only, did pretty good actually.
<Deddly> Ah! In that case, we narrowed it down to torque from the engines. If you autostrut each one to root or grandparent part, that should fix it
<JVFoxy> way head of you...
<JVFoxy> engine pylons... grandparent as well as rigid... though I had also done the wings
<JVFoxy> still minuscule bit of yaw but its liveable
<JVFoxy> I sorta avoided using auto strut and rigid attachments... mostly I guess because I didn't nkow what they could fix..
<Deddly> Not the pylons, the engines themselves
<JVFoxy> actually its ok...
<Deddly> Nice
<JVFoxy> auto strutting the pylons, connects things to the cockpit, since they were originally connected to the body/cargo bay before I moved them out past the limits
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<JVFoxy> checked with engines, I think because it connection between tank, pylon, bay.. it ends up doing something weird
<JVFoxy> ok thanks... now to name it.. I was pondering making this a video but.. distracted.
<Deddly> :)
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<JVFoxy> 36 tons is quite a bit.. though liquids can be quite dense...
<JVFoxy> not sure if it can reach the polar areas.. otherwise would make a good cargo plane for polar research base. The BAE one I did, reaches but not enough fuel for return
<JVFoxy> also... the polar station project is in career mode... haven't gotten the parts unlocked yet
<JVFoxy> Connector a good name you think/
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<Fluburtur> I feel like the 3d printed mouthpiece I made for my trumpet makes a smoother sound
<Fluburtur> less high end
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<Althego> hehe sombra cosplay as sombra :)
<Fluburtur> I really need to lower the sensitivity of my microhpone to record the trumpet, im behind it so I dont really know but it is really loud
<Althego> soyuz ms-12 is coming up. with the people from the failed one and one more
<Fluburtur> where
<Althego> in 9 days or so :)
<Fluburtur> well I looked and I didnt see any bands in my town
<Althego> hairbands? :)
<Fluburtur> there is no need for airbands
<Fluburtur> hairbands*
<Fluburtur> I have a friend that is pretty good at playing music and can basically pick up any instrument and somewhat be able to play it well within 20 minutes but he doesnt like playing in a band and recording, he just wants to shred all day
<sandbox> can you play an elastic band?
<Mat2ch> Fluburtur: did I show you this? https://imgur.com/lZKiW6c
<Fluburtur> is that a mini cnc?
<Gasher> looks like 3d printer
<Mat2ch> Fluburtur: 420x300 mm
<Mat2ch> A portable one
<Althego> hehe looks like it
<Mat2ch> But enough for what I need
<Althego> with the cute emergency butotn
<Mat2ch> (and everything else is much more expensive ;)
<Fluburtur> this is one of the rare thing I managed to record with my friend https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbSAiFBQYp4
<Fluburtur> like, a week after I got my bass
<Fluburtur> Mat2ch can you use german engineering to find me a big laser cutter at a good price?
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> german engineering? google is not german
<Mat2ch> I guess you should look somewhere in China...
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<Mat2ch> well, I still have problems with this cnc. It took me hours to get it adjusted and it still has some problems :|
<Mat2ch> well, tomorrow.
<Mat2ch> and I hate hex socket screws.
<Mat2ch> I really really hate them
<Althego> the fasterst aging screws
<Mat2ch> I should get some Torx screws, when I have to screw and unscrew the thing more often...
<Mat2ch> s/when/if
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<Mat2ch> Had to replace one already, because the socket was to worn out
<Mat2ch> *too
<Fluburtur> I might try to grab my guitarist and drummer friends and try to record some music
<Fluburtur> the only issue is that I absolutely do not know how to write music
<Althego> use a pink noise generator :)
<Fluburtur> well, I just need to hand a guitar to my friend and he will come up with something
<Althego> hehe
<packbart> Fluburtur: what is a "good price"? $we paid about 14k€ (BRM 90130). won't cut metal, though
<Fluburtur> I just need a 40 to 60w and at least 40x60cm
<Fluburtur> to cut thin plywood
<packbart> this one is 90x130cm
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<packbart> Fluburtur: 40x60@80W still costs ~10k€. might as well pay some extra for a larger table
<Fluburtur> well, will have to get some funding when I create my company then
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<packbart> the Behind the Curve documentary is by "Delta-V Productions". must be fake news!1
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<Althego> hehe
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<senray> I'm looking for some advice, I haven't had this before IIRC: I've 600dV but I'm still short about 50dv when taking off from the Mun
<Deddly> Hi senray
<senray> Hi Deddly
<Althego> you can alsways try to push with the kerbal :)
<senray> lol, true
<hoglahoo> does the 600dv include that
<senray> I'm more of wondering why it's taking more dV than expected
* hoglahoo laughs
<darsie> senray: Do you take off at the equator or the pole?
<Deddly> 600 is kinda tight, isn't it?
<Deddly> What's your TWR, senray?
<Althego> it is really tight
<darsie> A kerbal (600 m/s) can juts make it from the equator, not at high latitudes.
<darsie> just*
<senray> definately tight
<senray> But I figured the 580 on the dV map had some padding in it too
<Althego> dont count on that
<darsie> senray: Do you take off at the equator or the pole?
<senray> Pretty much right on the equater
<darsie> Fly shallower
<senray> I'm getting the TWR, KSP is staking a minute
<senray> it's 2.37
<Deddly> https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png 580 from Mun surface to orbit, so 600 is maybe pushing it
<Althego> in fact if you use a lower orbit you can get somewhat lower numbers than on the map
<Deddly> Yeah
<Deddly> senray, what's your flight profile?
<Althego> but there is always soem human error, so you are better off with a safeety amrgin
<senray> Up, then 15 degrees, then pitch as needed to keep time to apoapsis steady
<darsie> With a kerbal, keep going. Don't look back (or at the map) till you're nearly in orbit.
<Althego> with high twr just go almost horizontal in a second
<bees> senray: fly as low as possible, instantly go horizontal
<Deddly> senray, try this: Turn over to 90 degrees as soon as you're off the ground. Skim the ground as close as possible
<Althego> real astronaut did the same
<senray> I'll try that.
<darsie> take off at 20-30 deg from hte horizon.
<Deddly> Let us know how it goes :)
<senray> I tried MJ ascent, that was even worse
<senray> Doing it noe
<darsie> or yes, turn instanly.
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<senray> Nope, that sinks
<hoglahoo> why go up at all? just roll along the ground
<Althego> lol
<senray> Because I'll hit the ground?
<hoglahoo> oh ok
<Althego> there was one video with a car jump from minmus to kerbin
<darsie> Well, turn so you're prograde is as horizontal as possible without hitting anything.
<hoglahoo> negative attitude
<darsie> your*
<hoglahoo> thats a pun btw
<senray> lol
<senray> if this doesn't work, I'll just ditch the rover
<senray> I hate quicksaving lol
<Deddly> You can make it, just keep your prograde marker at the horizon
<Althego> two atoms talking: i think i lost an electron. are you sure? i am positive
<darsie> toms*
* Deddly looks for the "like" button and is disappointed to remember that IRC doesn't have one
<darsie> There are karma bots.
<senray> Nope, I hit terrain
<hoglahoo> lets not
<darsie> senray: You were too low, then.
<senray> Maybe 2.37 dV is just too low to be that efficient?
<hoglahoo> darsie aka sherlock holmes is on the case
<Althego> hehe captain obvious strikes
<darsie> alternatively, take off from a high peak.
<senray> Make sense that 2.37 TWR might be too low?
<Deddly> senray, well, obviously not THAT close to the ground. As close as you can get without hitting the ground
<bees> 2.37 TWR is more than enough
<Deddly> Yes 2.37 is absolutely fine
<hoglahoo> 2.37 dV is probably too low though
<Deddly> naaaw
<darsie> 2.37 km/s ? :)
* hoglahoo whistles
<Deddly> Oh, dV, yes THAT would be too low ;)
<bees> it would be a good jump, i guess
<darsie> On Mars we might jump over our cars rather than going around.
<senray> lol, that was a typo
<darsie> senray: What are ya gonna do in Mun orbit?
<senray> Got it!
<darsie> yay :)
<Deddly> \o/
<darsie> How much is left?
<senray> The mothership has enough dV to rendezvous with the lander and return to Kerbin
<darsie> How much was it initially? 600 exactly?
<senray> 604
<senray> Got 5 left
<Althego> hehe overdesigned :)
<senray> It's a neat set up I've got, but I'll try to land with more margin next time, at least 700.
<darsie> You know, you can EVA from the lander, jetpack to orbit and then rendezvous.
<darsie> I had to on Duna.
<senray> I've got a reusable/intended to be reusable lander in Munar orbit and a larger ship that rendezvous with it with fuel
<darsie> In an atmosphere use Superman attitude.
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> i didnt know that was a technical term
<darsie> :)
<senray> And I launch that with a VTVL booster and an expendable 2nd stage
<senray> It normally works quite well, unless I land with low margin apparently
<darsie> Or in general, Superman attitude is great, as you can freely choose your attitude and even burn without changing it.
<darsie> like ,whne you don't have an equatorial orbit.
<darsie> wasd will right you, ctrl/shift will not.
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<TransitBiker> bwoop
<TransitBiker> current orbital tug depot launch weight: 962 ton
<TransitBiker> on-station weight... upcoming
<TransitBiker> my probe cores are not aligned correctly on the stack, shows north as east and east as south etc
<TransitBiker> how the heck did that happen (i didnt know that could be a thing?
<packbart> rotated?
<TransitBiker> the north marker is on the bottom of the navball instead of off to the right
<packbart> or maybe the new "Control Point: Reversed" (or similar) action in the part menu. I never tried that
<TransitBiker> im in 1.5
<TransitBiker> no such menu option
<TransitBiker> and 1.5 is also insanely laggy when attaching parts, what's that all about?
<TransitBiker> 3 minutes later, still waiting for game to unfreeze to keep warking on building craft
<TransitBiker> i hope this is not normal for 1.5, or im reverting to 1.4
<darsie> Got a rover core on board?
<TransitBiker> nope, just the stack style probe cores
<darsie> select control from here on another core or even a docking port pointing prograde.
<TransitBiker> tried that multiple times, it's like the whole thing was rotated at some point, but i sure as hell didnt do that
<TransitBiker> so ksp takes up 10 gigs of ram huh?
<TransitBiker> that's obscene
<Althego> ah the insight mole is stuck
<darsie> How far in?
<Althego> but the lander can do eclipse science
<Althego> i guess with the camera on the arm
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<Althego> last they reported it was 35 cm
<darsie> The peak?
<darsie> Or the tail?
<Althego> supposedly it should be able to go around rocks
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<Althego> so in a few days the dragon comes back, will it bring back earth and repliey too?
<Althego> ripley
<Althego> maybe just ripely
<Althego> what, now there is a farfarout? i didnt know about that
<hoglahoo> keep up
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<APlayer> Time for spam! First time I see a survey on what sort of space science an agency should do: http://m.esa.int/Our_Activities/Space_Science/Help_shape_ESA_s_space_science_programme
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<Deddly> New feature just got previewed https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/182661-ksp-loading-preview-new-altimeter-toggle/
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<packbart> nice feature. I noticed that when landing manually, I mostly just look at the KER readout. Altitude above terrain, vertical speed and vertical acceleration with SAS on retrograde hold
<TransitBiker> bwoop
<TransitBiker> gonna launch this orbital tug depot (tugs included), then install 1.6
<TransitBiker> i am slightly tempted to push the launch mass to 1000+ tons
<TransitBiker> only 40 tons off
<TransitBiker> poll: starting wet mass of your biggest craft?
<TransitBiker> ahoy drac
<Draconiator> AHOY MATEY! How ye be?
<TransitBiker> how goes it?
<hoglahoo> can't remember, I'll have to load up ksp and see what I have saved
<TransitBiker> i need to load this up to kerbalx, along with many other craft
<packbart> can't remember exactly, either. but it was beyond 1kt
<TransitBiker> so i modified 4 of the 12 tugs to allow long distance solo travel
<TransitBiker> kind of excited
<Draconiator> I haven't been here lately, spending time with other games. but I'm feeling the KSP bug again.
<hoglahoo> my "venus heavy" is taking a long time to load into the VAB
<TransitBiker> typically i pair two on heavy stuff, and one on smaller stuff, so i think i could take one regular one to pair it with the remote one
* hoglahoo taps foot impatiently
<TransitBiker> how many parts?
<TransitBiker> ok, this is starting to piss me off... why in gods man is the control orientation 90 degrees off?
<TransitBiker> name*
<hoglahoo> 603
<packbart> that is big
<hoglahoo> I've loaded some with twice as many parts so not sure why this is struggling
<TransitBiker> i have 692 hehe.. i could be like "700 parts, 1000 tons"
* packbart couldn't bear the lag beyond 400 parts or so
<hoglahoo> yeah it's quite large
<hoglahoo> using big rockets in RSS
<TransitBiker> 6 twin boar with 3 of those radial liquids each, and a mammoth in core
<TransitBiker> all stock
<hoglahoo> my biggest stock rocket was built for a moon landing in RSS and failed spectacularly
<hoglahoo> crumbled on the pad everytime
<TransitBiker> i love failing almost as much as i love success
<hoglahoo> I feel like I have a wide range of acceptable failure to success ratios, but there certainly needs to be both
<hoglahoo> reloaded the game
<TransitBiker> my biggest sucess is that i have built lifting vehicles that can lift anything without part clippy explosions and wibbly wobbly flippy floppy strangeness
<hoglahoo> venus heavy is really just heavy lifter plus a payload
<hoglahoo> i can try to load heavy lifter
<hoglahoo> heavy lifter is 97,753.5 tons
<TransitBiker> 100% launch vehicle reliability.... capable of lifting 1500 tons into orbit
<hoglahoo> nice
<TransitBiker> yeah, it's pretty amazing, actually
<TransitBiker> took me a solid 3 months to perfect
<hoglahoo> thats about as much as mine puts up, actually, I think
<hoglahoo> based on the two tankers I have in earth orbit
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<TransitBiker> if i want to put more up, i have to add solids to get it up off the pad
<hoglahoo> pretty sure doing that with stock parts would drive me nuts
<Draconiator> I'm pretty good at making planes....so I'm gonna try to get one of my existing ones to Laythe heh
<TransitBiker> once it's off the pad, i can typically get rid of the solids... mostly just fuel weight
<TransitBiker> but the last time i had solids on this lifter,,, they were the issue, and the max mass was like 600 tons
<hoglahoo> it doesn't want to calculate my venus heavy 3
<TransitBiker> so... we shall see
<TransitBiker> hehe
<TransitBiker> my actual space station (manned) has huge electric charge thanks to a massive power module
<hoglahoo> found another big one
<hoglahoo> 100,057.6 tons
<hoglahoo> titled refuel
<TransitBiker> let me grab the screen shot of this one though
<TransitBiker> a million tons?
<hoglahoo> it puts the saturn s-ic first stage tank into orbit
<hoglahoo> no, 100,000 tons
<TransitBiker> oh
<TransitBiker> mine is just 1000
<hoglahoo> the tank is 2500 tons
<TransitBiker> but you have rss
<hoglahoo> yeah and using big parts
<TransitBiker> might calculate things different
<hoglahoo> I dont think it calculates masses any differently, no
<TransitBiker> 1000 tons stock vanilla is pretty big on the pad
<hoglahoo> yeah it is
<hoglahoo> might see if I can find my big stock one
<TransitBiker> the tug depot itself is something like 450 tons, though
<hoglahoo> these big ones I'm listing way overshadow the pad
<hoglahoo> can't see the pad
<TransitBiker> i have yet to see what the revised depot looks like on orbit
<hoglahoo> I think we need some screenshots
<TransitBiker> heheh you gotta see this then
<hoglahoo> my big stock rocket isn't on this save. must search
<hoglahoo> its quite ugly as well
<hoglahoo> actually i do have screenshot i think
<hoglahoo> loool
<TransitBiker> ;)
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<TransitBiker> only reason it has a fairing is some of the PV panels
<TransitBiker> would come off
<hoglahoo> alright here's my stock parts attempt to get to the moon. 1600 parts and 29,000 tons https://i.imgur.com/jOcmSC8.png
<TransitBiker> https://i.imgur.com/HAqbZPN.png with resource panel open
<TransitBiker> wow
<TransitBiker> very transitbiker
<hoglahoo> very laborious
<TransitBiker> i can imagine
<TransitBiker> why do i need 115 thousand electric charge? o.o
<hoglahoo> hehe
<hoglahoo> just in case, of course!
<TransitBiker> i dont even know where it all is ... and that kilbasa in a hotdog bun o.O
<hoglahoo> yes, nice shape
<TransitBiker> the tiny lil solid fuel is for the nose cone - has a single sepratron to jettison it
<TransitBiker> or, rotating it once 90 degrees worked.. correct orientation now
<TransitBiker> i dunno what way it rotated though, since it's 4x symmetrical hah
<hoglahoo> ok back to work for me, distraction overload
<TransitBiker> :D
<Draconiator> Need to switch my monitor from this backup to the new one that just arrived
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<TransitBiker> and i need to decouple and de-orbit the second stage
<TransitBiker> done.. now lets see the on orbit mass
<TransitBiker> only 117 tons HAHA
<TransitBiker> but it's not just LKO
<TransitBiker> i can get kerbin escape
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<Draconiator> New monitor has a native resolution of 1920x1080
<TransitBiker> time travel dates mhm
<TransitBiker> 1080 might be interesting
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<Fluburtur> I should cook and try to launch two rockets tomorrow
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<TransitBiker> hay
<TransitBiker> bwoop
<Fluburtur> hullo
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<ShadowMC2> hello?
<hoglahoo> hi?
<aradapilot> goodbye?
* hoglahoo taps phone
<ShadowMC2> wut
<hoglahoo> who is this
<ShadowMC2> a person
<ShadowMC2> who needs help
<ShadowMC2> with a joystick
<ShadowMC2> so...yeah
<ShadowMC2> ok cya
<Fluburtur> the empty rocket shoudlnt be more than 100g
<Fluburtur> maybe 160max loaded with fuel
<ShadowMC2> wut???
<Fluburtur> and should have a thrust of at least 400g
<Fluburtur> model rocket
<ShadowMC2> ok cya
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<Fluburtur> well, oneof those peoples that leave if they dont get an answer within 10s
<Draconiator> heh
<packbart> in my world, joysticks went out of style even before the CD-ROM
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<hoglahoo> maybe they thought this was #joystickfreecustomersupport
<packbart> well, I read somewhere that KSP does support joysticks. analog inputs might even make for a smooth flight
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<Ezriilc> Joysticks in KSP are a wonderful thing, especially for horizontally built planes, but also for squirlly rockets and even for watercraft and orbital/docking-type manuevers.
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<Ezriilc> OOPS. IRC client update.
<Draconiator> um rofl, On the way out of Kerbin SOI, I've sometimes hit the Mun's SOI, but this time my Jool burn has me smacking right into it. I think
<Draconiator> nope, a miss by 324km
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<Draconiator> I still get a Jool encounter though.