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<packbart>
the hinges got a bit out of whack and don't point in the same direction anymore as before
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<LupiDragon>
@lordcirth_ it only needs the one. I was able to get it to fly sustainably, but it didn't climb very well. Also, the real dragonfly works off batteries and trickle-charging between flight
<LupiDragon>
so i tuned it down for more power at the "expense" of limited flight duration
<lordcirth>
Makes sense
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<JVFoxy>
mmm... anyone use KAS/KIS?
<Eddi|zuHause>
it's a bit fiddly at the start
<JVFoxy>
fiddly is putting things lightly
<JVFoxy>
so.. I go to connect a port to the side of a plane, something happens and whole plane just blows up. As well as jump about 50 meters into hte air
<Althego>
hehe
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<JVFoxy>
landing wheels...
<JVFoxy>
retracted, plane sitting on ground, its perfectly fine
<JVFoxy>
if its sitting on the wheels, you so much as take something off or attach, kiss plane goodbye as it spontaneiously blows up. :\
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<JVFoxy>
ok... turns out may not be KIS/KAS... some reason my plane just blows up when it stages.. something to do with the wings
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<JVFoxy>
uff.. ok seems to be issue with these FAT-455 wings
<JVFoxy>
not even clipping, I stage something off the nose, 455's just fall off... even with rigid and autostrut. :\
<Gasher[work]>
hm, these wings tended to detach on landing when i had wheels attached to them
<JVFoxy>
flying... I shoot the nose cone off no problems
<JVFoxy>
sitting belly on the ground its fine..
<JVFoxy>
sitting on wheels out.. something causes the whole thing to jump and boom
<Gasher[work]>
you have wheels attached to these large wings, right?
<JVFoxy>
sort of annoying, I was really hoping to cargo plane fuel to a depot later in a career. Though if plane just blows up when I so much as connect a hose...
<JVFoxy>
no.. side of the body
<Gasher[work]>
ah
<Gasher[work]>
well, weird
<JVFoxy>
I have two smaller ones on the nose, dual wheel single axel on sides of body
<JVFoxy>
its a highwing cargo plane
<Gasher[work]>
maybe plane is too heavy for these wheels?
<JVFoxy>
ya.. something causes a shock through the plane and wings just blow
<Gasher[work]>
there was an issue with wheels starting to jump if they were overloaded because of spring tension and damping being inadequate
<Gasher[work]>
also as i noticed the huge wings' connections are "fragile"
<JVFoxy>
testing a eew ideas out
<JVFoxy>
first I thought because I have engines mounted on wings too
<JVFoxy>
took them off. nope..
<JVFoxy>
it acts like something slams the wings and knocks them off. Though this time, something was pushing the remains of hte plane's body around on the ground
<JVFoxy>
ok nose cap, no ejection force, no engines on wings, all wheels are double tired. on runway, landed, drop nose cone. its like the craft bounces off the ground in a very hard jerk like something hit it from above. Then wings fly off
<JVFoxy>
take wings off. try same setup, nose slightly bounces, but doesn't act like nose cone smashed it like an astroid
<Althego>
never put engines on wings
<Gasher[work]>
why
<Althego>
because of flexing
<Althego>
ok, with autostruts you can help a lot
<Gasher[work]>
that's kinda obvious thing
<JVFoxy>
even with autostruts, I get structural failures from wings, pilons control surfaces, body....
<Gasher[work]>
i mean, it's not 'never put' ,just 'beware of flexing'
<Althego>
but i usually put the engines on the body and offset them under the wing
<JVFoxy>
even added a few of my own struts tough seems to have made things even worse. plane jumped way higher
<Althego>
that way they look like they were on the wing
<Gasher[work]>
that's cheating
<Althego>
that has additional benefit of less modifications if i change the wing
<Althego>
i can just leavethe engines in place
<JVFoxy>
took engines off to test.. still caused wings to rip off
<Althego>
autostruts are also cheating
<Althego>
invisible metal rods
<Althego>
so for example i give a little angle for the wings so that they produce lift even with 0 aoa
<Althego>
but if the engine are on them too i also need to change the engine rotation, and for every change in the wings i have to follow that
<JVFoxy>
ok so.. stage a thing on hte plane.. fat-455s fail, then poof.. gone. plane goes nuts after
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
some parts clipping<
<Althego>
>
<Althego>
?
<Althego>
are there some parts vibrating before the explosion?
<JVFoxy>
stupid net giving me issues, sorry took a bit.. some screen shots of what happens. first set, wings not clipping. second how normally had it minus engines
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<packbart>
JVFoxy: the KAS hoses might be a problem in "docked" mode. If I connect a rover to a tank and switch the connection to "docked", the rover jumps up high and crashes
<packbart>
I guess it's the wheels autostruts restrutting to the new heaviest part, which also sits several metres away
<taniwha>
KAS hoses in docked mode are, for me, a nightmare
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<JVFoxy>
I'll keep it in mind. Sorry, decided to take a break for a little. Back though, testing an idea if I rebuilt hte plane...
<JVFoxy>
It may have been acting up because I ported the craft file from previous ksp version
<Gasher[work]>
the issue i have with these cargo planes is to actually fit and get the stuff in
<Gasher[work]>
and then out
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<JVFoxy>
oh?
<JVFoxy>
as in... other craft docking inside or just getting kerbals inside the cargo hold for starts?
<JVFoxy>
ok now that I basically built a new compatible cargo plane, now off to do what I was originally trying: seeing what it takes to build a fuel depot on the abandoned island
<Gasher[work]>
its not a spaceplane so getting something inside and docking it there
<JVFoxy>
wish we had wheels between the tiny rover ones and the moon ones
<packbart>
great, I stranded tourists on the Mun. 478m/s are not enough to launch and return to Kerbin
<Gasher[work]>
i guess you need about 1750
<Gasher[work]>
less than that even
<packbart>
yeah, not much more. some 500-ish to launch and then ~250 for a return into Kerbin's atmosphere
<Gasher[work]>
ywah, 1750 is from deltaV map to land on Mun from lko
<JVFoxy>
can't fit fuel tanks inside containers so strapped them to side of plane. unbolted htem when I got the site. Kerbal just pushed it over to the pylon :P
<JVFoxy>
ok I really don't know what the issue was.. but .. so far test turned out ok.. https://imgur.com/a/iRqTTZE
<Eddi|zuHause>
"478m/s are not enough to launch and return to Kerbin" <-- pretty much all my mun landings have been like that
<Gasher[work]>
i tend to have extra unused dV
<taniwha>
there's no such thing as excess delta-v, only insufficient mission
<Eddi|zuHause>
i can usually fix it by reloading and performing a more efficient landing
<JVFoxy>
whoa.. ok so loaded up a few nose cones into cargo bay, loose. took off from runway and now graphics acting werid
<JVFoxy>
kind of like that thing it does when you view the planet's surface and its not got full res yet.
<Eddi|zuHause>
that sounds incredibly dangerous
<JVFoxy>
like all the textures just fighting each other
<Eddi|zuHause>
if you don't secure your cargo, your flight is probably not very long
<Eddi|zuHause>
there was a plane like that which had loaded tanks. it took off, and basically did a full-stop midair
<Gasher[work]>
i can think of at least one video of a cargo plane crash, somewhere in the middle east and it was US army one
<Gasher[work]>
the cargo detached in midflight and you could see that the control surfaces were functional right until the end as they were struggling to control it
<JVFoxy>
no.. plane made it back ok. some weird graphic's issue though in plane and KSC: https://imgur.com/a/1q6r6Ar
<kmath>
YouTube - Dramatic footage: Cargo Boeing 747 crashes at Bagram Airfield
<Gasher[work]>
thast one
<FLHerne>
(and yes, caused by CoM shift from unsecured cargo)
<Gasher[work]>
you can see that they rolled it back to parallel to the ground and were lifting its nose with elevator but did not manage to
<JVFoxy>
ya, I remember seeing something explaining how straps broke and load shifted, threw plane pitch up. wasn't recoverable
<JVFoxy>
well.. 36t didn't seem too much a problem for this plane...
<JVFoxy>
still a bit fuel limited though, whatever is in the wings (1200) plus aux tanks in the strakes.
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<packbart>
"This runway debris evidence strongly suggests that, about the time of the airplane’s rotation, the rear M-ATV moved aft, struck the E8 rack (which provides a shelf for the CVR and FDR), penetrated the APB, and damaged hydraulic system No. 2, the tubing for which passes through the APB on the airplane’s lower left side."
<Gasher[work]>
em, don't they have like 3 parallel hydraulic systems?
<packbart>
I guess planes are just not built for cargo crashing through the bulkheads
<packbart>
" the NTSB concludes that the airplane’s loss of pitch control was the result of the improper restraint of the rear M-ATV, which allowed it to move aft through the APB and damage hydraulic systems Nos. 1 and 2 and horizontal stabilizer drive mechanism components to the extent that it was not possible for the flight crew to regain pitch control of the airplane."
<Gasher[work]>
aha
<Gasher[work]>
so it was not just CoM moving (btw is that covered? was it really outside the viable area?) but also loss of control
<Gasher[work]>
"balance envelope" is the right term
<packbart>
"Wheels are iffy on a good day." - so, Space Engineers have the same physics problems :)
<packbart>
Windows only. So I'm not going to have a look at it
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<packbart>
do the propeller blades work in Jool's atmosphere? someone must have already tried that, though I can't find anything on the internets
<Althego>
they work on eve
<Althego>
very well in fact
<Althego>
so it is probable that jool is ok too
<Althego>
however duna is a total failure
<Althego>
we would need higher rpm probably
<Althego>
like 1.5 orders of magnitude higher
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<packbart>
ooh, I don't even need to land the rescue capsule. I picked the SSPXr larger Hitchhiker pod, with integrated Experience Management
<packbart>
rendezvous with a rescue, upgrade them to level-1 so they get their chute and off they jump the next time the capsule passes over the KSC
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<packbart>
"Some Kerbals say that every place on Duna looks exactly the same." - the first probe hasn't even reached Duna, yet the Kerbals at home already know exactly what it must look like.
<packbart>
so human
<Althego>
to explode is kerbal
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<Althego>
so on duna my porops created 2x0.3 kN "lift", while the total drag minimum was around 10 times of that
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<UmbralRaptop>
Hrm. How well could a kerbal astronomer make out surface features on Duna?
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<UmbralRaptop>
AFAICT, a typical opposition has Duna ~18" across, and without the inclination or obliquity of Mars
<Althego>
they sure have big eyes :)
<UmbralRaptop>
Sure its icecaps are larger, but still…
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<UmbralRaptop>
And does it have the contrast of eg: Syrtis Major?
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<Althego>
wow, with the big propeller blades (the helicopter blades still dont work), i get 2x1 kN "lift" on duna
<Althego>
it is almost able to counteract drag :)
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<UmbralRaptop>
Progress!
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<Althego>
based on the arrows, and the tendency of the props to start spinning because of your movement, there is autorotation
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<Althego>
ah i think i knwo what the problem with the helicopter blades is. they have controls activated by default. when i turn that off, they start to behave better
<Althego>
probably there is some sort of control runnning in the background and it is not very good
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<Althego>
so finally that i got them to somewhat work, the helicopter blades have high lift, but low max speed. at least the smallest ones that are as big as the big props dont like speed over 30
<Althego>
while i can get up ot 120 with the props
<Althego>
on the other hand the heli rotor blades easily have higher lift than the weighth of the craft
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<Althego>
if cae did anything correctly, that was the simulation of rotor blades. first of all they were simulated as bending bodies, with not too many elements, second thei visualization had several states
<Althego>
unlike in ksp, after a while they started to be shown as blurred, then that blur started to increase until finally it went to a rotor disk, which needed very little actual rendering