UmbralRaptor changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program 1.7.3 official channel | Rules: http://archive.is/5bp8u | PM ops as needed | ΔV maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.png https://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | <packbart> stupid Kerbals, begin to breathe before the air has materialized
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<LupiDragon> https://i.imgur.com/dKWFeBJ.jpg https://i.imgur.com/trqVpsz.jpg haven't tested it on other bodies, but 90 minutes of flight time at full throttle
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<lordcirth_> LupiDragon, 90 minutes? that's really efficient. You may as well stick an RTG on it and go infinite.
<Rolf> dunno
<Rolf> rtg is quite heavy
<lordcirth_> 80kg, vs those 2 Z-400 batteries which are 20kg each
<lordcirth_> A 40kg increase for infinite duration seems worth it. LupiDragon, what's the mass of the craft?
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<Rolf> it looks tiny
<Rolf> i see 2 smallest batteries and its quite large on craft
<Rolf> could be wrong tho
<umaxtu_mobile> thats what it looks like to me
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<Althego> building a helicopter with tail rotor is hard
<Althego> i think i better go with a dual rotor approach
<Althego> hehe failed with coaxiel setup too
<Althego> with an a even
<Rolf> man
<Rolf> i remember when this channel was busy all day long and night
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<JVFoxy> I still have a little ol' heli I made with firespitter mod
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<JVFoxy> suppose I could try making a heli in KSP, would have to download latest..
<JVFoxy> make for interesting mountain biome gathering
<Althego> i suggest tilting jets, you are better off
* JVFoxy pokes the website, "ok.. interesting, can download older versions. nice"
<JVFoxy> Althego: lol.. tilting? I used to fly with two mk1 command pods back to back with a RT fuel tank in the middle. and 6 juno jet kits all around. RW for control..
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<JVFoxy> moves like snot... just gotta be careful with landing at high alts
<JVFoxy> ok.. maybe 'snot' not a good term.. moves pretty frig'n fast
<Althego> i dont understand why i get a roll from a coaxial setup
<JVFoxy> Althego: rotors clipping into the hub?
<Althego> they are attached to it
<JVFoxy> also, not sure if KSP models gyroscopic effects on spinning parts properly. Typically, when you pitch forward in a heli, it tends to want to roll one way because of it
<Althego> but the electric motors and the blades are really op
<JVFoxy> Althego: clipping.. as in when the hub is spinning, does it look like the blades aren't keeping up and mash into it?
<Althego> no, not really
<JVFoxy> I was watching shadowzone's video on the new parts.. they were having issues as well. Its like the parts weren't properly attached and bending
<Althego> but doesnt matter i actually want to make a folded wing airplane with electric props
<Althego> since watching that video i realized there is a mirroed variant for the blades
<JVFoxy> I'mma try a heli myself, see what I can come up with. My firespitter one was pretty nice flying, looked good. Simple build but, was somewhat restricted on things at the time
<Althego> aha, i think i know why. the direction of the yellow arrows flips on one side
<Althego> that causes a roll
<JVFoxy> yellow arrows?
<Althego> yellow arrow is control surface lift
<Althego> and apparently rotors are rendered as such
<Althego> no, wait, rotor is purple and it also has yellow
<Althego> may be the lift difference in airflow
<Althego> still shouldnt matter for a coaxial
<JVFoxy> depends... forward movement, lower rotor will have higher lift on one side, upper rottor opposite. Tends to cause a slight imbalance
<Althego> yes, looks like it is because of the asymmetry of lift
<Althego> but still, it should be the same for both rotors and cancel out
<JVFoxy> gah..! so used to running KSP without music. Finally loads and blame audio
<JVFoxy> *blam
<Althego> maybe they dont have the exact angles
<JVFoxy> are you rotors side by side or on top of each ohter?
<Althego> so this failed too
<Althego> we really need a collective :)
<JVFoxy> ok finally got in game...
<JVFoxy> see what we got going on here..
<Althego> actually you can couple the electric motors to throttle
<Althego> so it is kind of ok
<JVFoxy> lol.. kill ambience sound in SPH... wanna music instead
<Althego> http://warpology.com/k/heli2.png autorotation landing
<Althego> although in realyt it was probably the small wings that helped, autorotation probably not simulated
<JVFoxy> oh wait.. is rotors an expansion thing?
<Althego> breaking grounds
<Althego> or whatever it is called
<Althego> now i am patiently waiting for my submarine parts :)
<Althego> the props should work in water too
<Althego> juts as jets do
<JVFoxy> ok.. n/m then. I never got either expansion. :\
<JVFoxy> ya.. I fail.. eh..
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<Althego> i think i know what the problem with the helicopter was, at least partially. that couldnt cause a roll, but for a coutner rotating blade, you need to change motor direction, blade variant and deploy angle
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<Althego> i wonder what happens to kerbals when the blades hit them
<Althego> danny is probably already making a video about that
<Rolf> lol
<Rolf> he will also somehow make it shatter world also
<Rolf> his earlier world breaker was using kerbals and 2 claws after all
<Althego> the problem is i cant use brakes and also let the props running
<Althego> but i can builda test craft for this
<packbart> Murphy's Law is unconstitutional.
<packbart> Althego: you could set the rotor brake force to 0
<Rolf> dont... tempt Murphy
<Althego> doesnt help
<Rolf> set it to -10 :P
<Rolf> wonder if its possible by editing files
<packbart> so, the recent SmokeScreen update is throwing NREs. I might just get rid of RealPlume and go back to stock exhaust
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<Althego> the helmet protects against blade impact
<JVFoxy> well kinda makes sense
<JVFoxy> you've seen them fall on their heads and not a scratch
<Rolf> the helmet own all
<Rolf> jv theres video where one kerbal deorbited and landed without any ship
<Rolf> trick was to land on helmet first, then butt
<Rolf> and it was hard trick, guy retried bunch times
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<packbart> From LKO, it's easy. I did that a few times now to pilots to be rescued ;)
<packbart> Look retrograde to the horizon, burn the jetpack down to ~0.3 fuel, then turn sideways and punch through the atmosphere, turn into the wind after the firewarks and deploy chute
<Rolf> they have crutes now?
<Althego> but only from 3 stars
<Rolf> video was pretty old. and it was... lathobrake not water or crute
<packbart> no-star pilots have chutes from the beginning
<Althego> hmm
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<Althego> apparently the props are not so happy on duna
<taniwha> I can't imagine why
<Althego> they prduce 0 thrust
<taniwha> they produce 0 thrust on Kerbin, too
<Rolf> eve?
<taniwha> they use lift, not thrust :)
<Rolf> lol
<taniwha> (but if they actually don't work on duna, that's a problem)
<Althego> maybe changeing the blade angles would help
<Althego> but that is probably not simulated
<taniwha> they're lift surfaces
<taniwha> it might well be that duna's air is too thin
<Rolf> thats what made me wonder how well it would work on eve
<Althego> it wasnt too thin to glide
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<Althego> we know they work in eve
<Althego> see matt lowne
<Rolf> lol ok
<taniwha> Althego: wings are generally a darn sight larger than prop blades
<Althego> they also move with different speeds
<Althego> 8300 m on kerbin, still climbing
<Althego> highly visible forces on the blades
<taniwha> what's the air density?
<Althego> i forgot to pack a science instrument
<taniwha> aero gui
<taniwha> (think it's in alt-f12)
<taniwha> and I /think/ it has density
<Althego> static pressure 24.5 kpascal, density 0.37 kg/m^3
<Althego> went up to around 8800 m
<taniwha> ok, now compare with Duna
<Althego> while at around 500 m asl there was 0 force on duna
<Althego> based on the wiki duna has around 6.75 kPa on sea level, so it means it is indeed too thin
<Althego> even if it has higher density
<taniwha> don't trust the wiki
<taniwha> but yeah, 6.75/24.5 is quite a bit lower
<Althego> still i expected at least some small thrust
<Althego> not 0
<Althego> ok, the arrows may have been just almost zero lenght
<taniwha> yeah, hard to tell when they're that small
<taniwha> btw, density ~= P/(RT)
<taniwha> (depends on molar mass)
<Eddi|zuHause> if you're using ~= you can drop the R (it's a constant anyway)
<taniwha> true
<taniwha> hmm, 4 part ship, 1640 verts?!?
<taniwha> I guess they add up fast
<Eddi|zuHause> circles?
<taniwha> sorry, 5 part (tired)
<taniwha> 3 whip antennas, a pod, and EL's micro pad
<taniwha> (mk1 lander can)
<taniwha> so yeah, a few circles
<taniwha> just surprised it's *that* many
<Eddi|zuHause> i imagine circles are a pain if you're limited to straight lines
<taniwha> and it broke my quickhull code :(
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<Althego> i think they messed up the deploy speed of the blades. it is fast in the air, and slow in the hangar
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<taniwha> data/micropadtest-points.bin.gz - 1640 points
<taniwha> - 144 faces 5ms
<taniwha> fixed :)
<taniwha> this time, just tweaking epsilon and when I use it
<taniwha> (instead of much heavy lifting in code)
<taniwha> Eddi|zuHause: here's the point cloud for those 1640 verts: http://taniwha.org/~bill/mk1lk-pointcloud.png
<Althego> it can easily fly on eve above 12 km
<taniwha> Althego: fly? or swim?
<Althego> hehe
<Althego> 120 kPa, that is probably not supercritical yet
<taniwha> 1.2atm
<taniwha> oh, I see, yeah
<taniwha> took me a moment to realise you meant the physical sense
<taniwha> (I've been fighting with quickhull for two days, so rather tired)
<Althego> 14 km is service ceiling for this thing
<Althego> can do zoom climbs higher but the max is maybe 14.5 km
<Althego> now i have to come up with foldable wings that dont make it completely wobbly
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<Althego> maybe if i folded the wings in half, like carrier based planes do
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<SnackMonger> Is it more efficient for a mining base to process ores directly and deliver the fuel with a shuttle or to transport the ores to a station which processes it?
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<packbart> I
<packbart> I guess most efficient is to launch just the fuel and keep the heavy drills and ISRUs on the surface
<packbart> narf, now I am getting spammed with NaN messages from a seismic thingy without power
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<Neal> all the headlines are saying tiangong 2 is going to reenter under control
<Neal> I thought it had been out of control for years?
<Althego> what does the scott say? :)
<Althego> wasnt it the previous one?
<packbart> yeah, I thought the uncontrolled station had already come down
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<packbart> ah, right, that was -1. "Tiangong-1 started reentry over the southern Pacific Ocean, northwest of Tahiti, on 2 April 2018"
<Neal> ah
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<Althego> the helicopter blades generate qiute a big lift, but they just dont work right, always make the plane uncontrollable
<Althego> apparently you cant autostrut something on a robotic segment to an other segment
<Althego> the osprey thingie i was trying to build is not working this way
<Althego> lol roll started to control yaw somehow
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<Althego> after all these changes with the blades now the left engine doesnt generate thrust anymore. after a while. it startr out ok
<Althego> seems to be because of speed, in dive the other one stops too, but somewhat later
<Althego> took down the blades from the attachment nodes and put them on not on the nodes, now they are symmetric
<Althego> those nodes are useless anyway, they do not change the number of blades even if there are blades on them
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<UmbralRaptop> "If you can think of any character who isn't dead, please let me know, this is probably a continuity error."
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<JVFoxy> Huh... kerbals can be impressed? "A return trip from the Mun?! This mission log correct? Incredable!" Mind you.. this was on day 2, flyby with a probe and some science. Also, wasn't expecting 350 or so sci
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<JVFoxy> Also, level 1 everything, less than 18 tons, 30 parts.. did have to 'cook' the rocket a bit before getting up to LKO.. just a little
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<packbart> from what I've read, a little bit of cooking is a most efficient ascent
<packbart> as long as nothing overheats, the drag costs less dV than turning later
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<JVFoxy> first attempt, fairing got pretty red
<JVFoxy> I usually built my stuff single booster stage to orbit, then the service engine on orbit.. I was a little concerned about shortening the booster so I could add an intermediate stage. Then, it not having fins when I dropped the booster.
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<JVFoxy> now I've done that one mission, its opened up quite a number of paths.. trouble is, I have KIS/KAS and think I need to start reading up on things
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<LupiDragon> @lordcirth_ that's with the RTG. you can see it there in the noncollidable part of the battery sorry i fell asleep and forgot
<LupiDragon> also 1.07 tons
<LupiDragon> also oh they're gone
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<lordcirth_> LupiDragon, so, what % of the EC consumption is handled by the RTG? What about 2 RTGs?
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