<kmath>
<70sscifiart> Here's a selection of 1977 NASA concept art by Don Davis, depicting the Pioneer Venus orbiter on the surface of Ven… https://t.co/sVEtdWoW45
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<manifold>
Woot @fishheads
<manifold>
I have a rocket behavior question.
<manifold>
My rocket leans gradually, but uncontrollably, to the east as it launches.
<umaxtu_mobile>
picture of rocket?
<manifold>
That only starts after I steer it that way to begin my gravity turn.
<manifold>
Let me go grab a screenshot.
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<Eddi|zuHause>
check how your CoM is positioned wrt the CoL, especially as fuel gets depleted
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<Eddi|zuHause>
... ok
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<umaxtu_mobile>
huh
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<manifold>
I don't see how to upload an image.
<Eddi|zuHause>
there's a dozen image paste hosts around
<Althego>
you can go with the smallest fins for stability if the big ones are too much
<manifold>
I hadn't thought of that. Thanks.
<Eddi|zuHause>
manifold: you want the center of mass (yellow dot) to be below the center of lift (blue dot), and be aware that the yellow dot moves when fuel gets used up
<Althego>
and you can add 6-8-12 or even 18 of the smaller ones if they are not enough
<JVFoxy>
miniscule lean is usually expected in normal gameplay even if you get everything exactly perfect.. or so I've seen
<Eddi|zuHause>
manifold: you can simulate fuel being used up by right-clicking a tank and moving the slider how much fuel it stores
<manifold>
So confused.
<manifold>
I thought it was supposed to be the other way.
<Eddi|zuHause>
hm, might be
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<Eddi|zuHause>
it's entirely possible i swapped it
<Eddi|zuHause>
which way around the center of mass/lift goes
<JVFoxy>
yellow is mass, blue is lift, yellow mass above lift
<Althego>
for stability
<JVFoxy>
trouble is, it only accounts for lift, not drag... sort of misleading a bit but...
<JVFoxy>
ya, think of it as a weather vane
<manifold>
That would be drag that matters then.
<JVFoxy>
it will always point in direction of wind. If you put aero ahead, it wants to flip around. But because so does your engine if its not setup right, it keeps wanting to flip
<manifold>
Flipping is not the problem I'm having at the moment.
<JVFoxy>
I woudn't worry too much about drag early on till you get the fairings
<JVFoxy>
the lean? how much of a lean is it though?
<manifold>
It's very gradual. Initially it's not much.
<JVFoxy>
there will be a little wobble intially at launch
<manifold>
But eventually you can't compensate for it.
<JVFoxy>
ah..
<JVFoxy>
do you push over hard early on to get it going east?
<manifold>
10 degrees
<JVFoxy>
also its not the reliant version of the LT engine?
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<JVFoxy>
oop
<JVFoxy>
sorry, thought they had pushed over too hard and was having troubles overcoming the ballistics
<umaxtu_mobile>
thats what it sounds like
<JVFoxy>
finds shouldn't be too big an issue, long as its evenly spaced around and 3 or more
<JVFoxy>
fins
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<manifold>
Wow. I just lost the whole conversation we were having.
<JVFoxy>
sometimes happens...
<manifold>
(From memory) Nope, it's the swivel.
<JVFoxy>
ok..
<JVFoxy>
so.. you launch, pitch a bit. Then its like having a hard time staying pitched up as the flight arcs over?
<manifold>
Exactly.
<JVFoxy>
you familiar with ballistics?
<manifold>
Yes.
<JVFoxy>
suggest maybe pitching over half as much after launching see what happens?
<Althego>
your rocket turned into lawn dart or shuttlecock
<manifold>
Big fins that force a prograde orientation.
<manifold>
I wondered if that was the issue.
<JVFoxy>
fins only part of the solution, they mostly help keep you pointed in the right direction, counter drag up front
<manifold>
So smaller fins may help?
<JVFoxy>
can try but I think you falling into the ballistics a little hard. Pitched over too early
<JVFoxy>
or too hard
<manifold>
I could start my turn later.
<JVFoxy>
there is that too, but don't wait too long
<JVFoxy>
it'll probably take a number of tries to get a sense of how things work
<manifold>
Is it possible to try without fins entirely. Wheels instead?
<manifold>
Would that restrict me less to the ballistic trajectory?
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<JVFoxy>
you'll still ballistic unless you can get up the speed to counter it
<JVFoxy>
it wouldn't be ideal
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<manifold>
Every time it says "Waiting to reconnect..." it never does.
<manifold>
Ok, so the restoring force to the ballistic trajectory is just a fact of life.
<JVFoxy>
well.. you could counter it if not going fast enough, either by thrusting up more, or wings..
<JVFoxy>
tends to involve more drag though
<JVFoxy>
on your launch.. try a tiny push to the east. A few degrees, see what happens
<manifold>
I'll give it a try.
<manifold>
Thanks.
<JVFoxy>
its what we here for
<manifold>
Thanks also to Althego.
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<darsie>
I'd prefer KSP not to switch to its window again after it opened it on Linux.
<packbart>
that's probably Unity's doing
<darsie>
ok
<JVFoxy>
switch out of ksp.. it goes into background, doesn't stay
<JVFoxy>
of course.. loading it, causes it to fight for focus for the first little bit
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<darsie>
I have to babysit my fuel production, because the universal rotation occasionally (anti)aligns my solar panels with the sun, and so my drills stop.
<packbart>
shuttling enough fuel tanks around was a bit tedious
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<darsie>
hehe
<darsie>
Did you assemble that in space?
<darsie>
I tried to make a Christmas tree for Cristmas, with lots of antennas as needles. Bogged down my computer so much it didn't finish in time.
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<darsie>
s/Christmas/pagan
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<Eddi|zuHause>
is there even such a thing as a truely "christian" custom instead of ones adapted from other religions?
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<Althego>
nothing new under the sun
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<Mat2ch>
Eddi|zuHause: not really. Mainly inspired by Buddhism and many things seem to be just common sense...
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<packbart>
darsie: I launched it under a 5m fairing
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<packbart>
didn't have the GrobalConstruction mod installed then
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<Eddi|zuHause>
<JVFoxy> switch out of ksp.. it goes into background, doesn't stay <-- i've been fighting with that kind of re-focus for a long time with many programs, but i think it
<Eddi|zuHause>
got worse
<Eddi|zuHause>
like: if a program is in windowed mode, if i move the mouse into it, it gets focus, but stays in background. if it's fullscreen, it gets focus and also pulls to foreground
<JVFoxy>
Eddi|zuHause ah.. morning and ok
<Eddi|zuHause>
i don't think the KDE people understood the problem i had with this behaviour
<JVFoxy>
I found out my video card has capture software that came with it, seems KSP doens't like overlays
<JVFoxy>
try to activate so I can adjust a setting, drops me out of ksp, to desktop. do the command again and capture software wakes up as if to say, "oh, /now/ you want it'
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<packbart>
Eddi|zuHause: KSP does it only once, when the loading screen appears. I can live with that
<packbart>
start, wait until the screen appears, then change desktops
<Eddi|zuHause>
the annoying part about that is, in that time i usually do some other random stuff
<Eddi|zuHause>
which will be interrupted by this things popping up
<JVFoxy>
I should also mention I've dual screens..
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<Althego>
hmm, day 13. i could still send bob to eve, not landing of course, but to orbit
<Althego>
or i could send him to duna, but in both cases it takes several hundred days
<UmbralRaptop>
For the purposes of this, they're probably duel screens
<UmbralRaptop>
Althego: land on Gilly?
<Althego>
that is basically free
<Althego>
or i can send him to just outside of soi and back
<Althego>
but even that is several days
<Eddi|zuHause>
i've still not understood which direction to burn to get back into kerbin SoI from a dip outside
<Althego>
i usually just turn around
<UmbralRaptop>
I'd go with directly back at Kerbin (ish)
<Althego>
but even without that, the node helps
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<UmbralRaptop>
maneuver.js
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<Althego>
scott
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<jUMPSu1t>
About to deorbit from my first succesful orbital mission! Super excited
<jUMPSu1t>
Anything I should know?
<Ezriilc>
Re-entry atmospheric heating is a thing.
<Ezriilc>
Good luck!
<nj0rd>
as is rapid unplanned deconstruction
<Ezriilc>
Only always.
<jUMPSu1t>
Heh. I have a heat shield and parachute, so I think I'm good to go.
<jUMPSu1t>
I've reentered from suborbital flights before.
<jUMPSu1t>
So I think I'm ready.
<Ezriilc>
Excellent. It sounds like you are.
<nj0rd>
jUMPSu1t: I found suborbital reentry harder in most cases - I guess due to the direction of the reentry
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<nj0rd>
you need to stop faster
<Althego>
try to keep the parachute away from the plasma :)
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<jUMPSu1t>
Where's UmbralRaptor?
<JVFoxy>
looks like they pinged out about 12 minutes ago
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<jUMPSu1t>
Alright, I splashed down. Can't see land anywhere, do you dare me to send a boat?
<Althego>
hehe
<packbart>
"Surface Deployed Seismic Sensor from Kerbin's surface generated 0.010 science" - Yay, that was just the solid boosters falling back into the desert
<packbart>
(the sensor sitting right next to KSC's runway)
<JVFoxy>
0.01 huh? low value cuz of having many previous crashes I take it?
<packbart>
it was probably low energy and some 50% distance something. I didn't expect the expended boosters to generate any science :)
<packbart>
they don't generate any wen splashing into the waters east of KSC. it was just when I launched from the desert that this message suddely popped up during ascent
<JVFoxy>
manely: Prior to leaving the moon, astronauts through out their life support packs out the hatch. The seismic sensors they setup up earlier, even picked up the moment the packs hit the surface.
<Eddi|zuHause>
it would be a bit odd if splashing into the sea caused seismic events
<JVFoxy>
through... tossed.. oh well
<JVFoxy>
lol... tsunami!
<JVFoxy>
knowing some players, probably cause massive floodings of KSC
<packbart>
.oO(New Crater Sea)
<Althego>
i am down to 56k funds. but at least some science and money starts to flow in soon
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<flayer>
in a few years the scout for [really big asteroids] at a rare 37 whatever-vertical-angle-terms degrees
<flayer>
....contract will complete, and i will have 2 million
<flayer>
[kerbucks]
<JVFoxy>
I turned a booster thing into a ad-hock OTV for a relay. Booster did a flyboy, dropping relay into mun orbit.
<Althego>
i had more than 3, but the science upgrade costs like 3.4
<JVFoxy>
I'd hoped to bring the 'OTV' back into kerbin orbit, 6 days out still but contract came up, 'adjust the orbit plane for money'. So... ya I accepted it. But now its just waiting
<Althego>
i almost never do orbit adjustments. each has it reason i dont change them
<JVFoxy>
I could afford it, just gotta wait.
<Eddi|zuHause>
weird, a song that has been in my playlist for many years turns out to be in 7/4 and i never noticed before
<JVFoxy>
altho.. its been a while, 6 days.. hmm. -checks something-
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<JVFoxy>
oh ya.. derp, not mun, minmus orbit
<JVFoxy>
what did I send over... oh landed probe.. ugh, doesn't show till I focus /and/ zoom in on minmus though.
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