<Althego>
i guess turbo pumped could do it with 6 t :)
<darsie>
Might work with a Hammer and two dawn stages.
<Mat2ch>
Hm, an air-breathing engine as first stage could bring down the weight of the first stage
<Althego>
probably less mass is possible with a jet engine first stage
<darsie>
ahh, that.
<Althego>
even with liquid rockets, because solids are heavy
<Althego>
but they are cheap
<Mat2ch>
you can go up to 1500 m/s with a jet engine. Then only a short burn is necessary to bring up the apoapsis high enough so you can use the ion engine to circularize
<darsie>
I guess price is more important irl.
<Mat2ch>
it is
<Mat2ch>
that's why the Vega rocket is so cheap
<Althego>
mass adds to the price :)
<darsie>
Time is important, too.
<Althego>
normally at least
<Althego>
for the payload that is
<Mat2ch>
mainly built from SRBs
<Mat2ch>
Vega-C will be around a third larger, than the Vegas before
<Althego>
and will house a casino :)
<Mat2ch>
Out!
<Mat2ch>
Now!
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<Fluburtur>
oh no youtube did a crap update again
<Fluburtur>
the subscription feed is craped
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
so where is the 4rd video?
<Althego>
3rd
<Fluburtur>
not here yet, I have audio issues with the software
<Fluburtur>
when I import music into the project it has an issue with recording frequency and makes my voice recording sped up
<Fluburtur>
and you dont want a gremlin narrating the video
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
most videso i watch at 1.75x speed anyway
<Althego>
slow talkers on 2x
<Althego>
ok the way youtube does it, does not raise the pitch, somehow
<Althego>
finally the time has come. my dyndns account expire. 220 usd for 5 years. no way, no ip is free
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<Fluburtur>
it is sort of easy to maintain pitch
<Althego>
i think i bought a dyndns account somewhere around 8 years ago, when the free was discounter
<Mat2ch>
ok, why is there an air siren going off here?
<Althego>
sometime they do, dont worry
<Fluburtur>
idk, could be related to when we had 20 seconds of ice about a minute ago
<Mat2ch>
AFAIK there's none nearby...
<Mat2ch>
now it's gone
<Fluburtur>
someone got a new toy
<Fluburtur>
could be me
<Mat2ch>
maybe somebody wanted to wake up at 12 very badly.
<Fluburtur>
heh
<JVFoxy>
old days when we had an air siren down by the store...
<Fluburtur>
I had a dream about chernobyl when I was half asleep
<Fluburtur>
I climbed on one of the cranes of the new safe containment and it started moving
<Fluburtur>
probably didnt end well
<Althego>
is it in place already? or still being built?
<JVFoxy>
Mat2ch what time is it where you are this thing is going off?
<Fluburtur>
oh yeah it is in place since like 2016
<Althego>
it is noon
<Althego>
eu timezone, that is why
<Althego>
cet dst
<JVFoxy>
could just be testing it? The one in our city I think was for volunteer emergency services alert back in the day
<JVFoxy>
... 3am here.. was hoping to get up later but eh..
<Althego>
once people couldnt get me a hotel in geilenkirchen so i stayed in a nearby village, hotel blumenhof
<JVFoxy>
hmm... I should check exact time Chernobyl went off. I think my family was in middle of driving cross Europe back when it went off...
<Althego>
i heard there the classical electromechanical siren sound several times, in various times, including around midnight, and at dawn
<Mat2ch>
Nah, no testing. Just somebody screwing around, I guess
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<JVFoxy>
parents spent time in Egypt back in 2001, long low tone horn was going off just as the sun was setting. Dad thinks it was connected..
<Mat2ch>
I lived near a chemical park as a child. They tested the sirens every month
<Mat2ch>
That was too faint, so I guess either kids playing or really an alarm clock...
<Mat2ch>
it was also super fun to hear the sirens and look at the calendar. Then look at it again and realize that this time it's not a test...
<Mat2ch>
I think the worst thing that happend were yellow cars everywhere... :D
<JVFoxy>
read on civil defense sirens. Hmm.. noon you said.. so maybe noon day whistle? One of the little settlements out here uses an old air raid one for that.
<Althego>
ok, switched to no ip. it works as dyndns used to, free and have to kicck it once a month
<Althego>
if it doesnt work, i can just use my fallback that i provide to myself. not really a dns, so would be annoying to use long term
<Mat2ch>
JVFoxy: this is a big city. A new built part of it, too. ;)
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<Mat2ch>
*newly
<JVFoxy>
ya I don't know...
<Althego>
it is the 27th now. where is stretch 9.9
<JVFoxy>
the major city near me, they fire off a canon at 9pm every night
<Althego>
lol
<JVFoxy>
tradition... its automated now and uses propane. Major port city.
<JVFoxy>
originally it was to warn of closing of the fishing market at 6pm to boats in the water. Then they switched to be 9pm to allow ships to sync clocks..
<Althego>
hehe security questions. i always find it amusing and slightly annoying that how badly these fit me. most of them is not applicable to me
<JVFoxy>
oh geez... looking at wiki on our 'timing gun'... floating esso fuel station barge used to sit inline with the gun. The gun has black powder set into it every day, but is set off automatically. One day, someone threw rocks into the barrel from the beach. The gun went off and shot a hole through the 'O' in teh barge's sign. The barge got move since.
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<JVFoxy>
oh ya... changed things up by trying to do a tiny little boat.. didn't exactly go too well..
* JVFoxy
booting up game, saw thumbnails from previous craft in folder
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<JVFoxy>
I probably brought this up before, but... as I don't mind orbital station contracts. Its just the requirement of so much fuel to be brought up too...
<Althego>
yes that fuel thing is dumb
<Rolf>
i wonder if my mun/minimun mission rocket pair would workf or you heh
<Althego>
basically i ignore these contracts because of that
<Rolf>
it was how i had rocket in space with lots of fuel to go anywhere
<Fluburtur>
good news, I got a long dril bit
<Fluburtur>
and a new dremel
<JVFoxy>
its just fuel right? No oxy? It make more sense as a fuel station if had a NV-1 engine spacecraft...
<Althego>
without oxydizer it is even more useless
<JVFoxy>
was one time.. I had a station already in orbit. I think the contract system noticed a docking port. Popped up with a 'since you already have a station in orbit, we want you to upgrade it by adding a copula...
<JVFoxy>
I had to laf when it also noticed I had a satellite around the mun... 'Having satellites in orbit is grate and all. But we think its time you brought one back home. Bring a satellite back down to Kerbin... to complete the contract,. Sending those things up there are so expensive
<Rolf>
do you get to choose?
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<Rolf>
if you could, I would orbit something really cheap and tiny and deorbit
<Fluburtur>
alright, I used the long drill bit for 10 seconds and now I dont need it anymore
<JVFoxy>
ya.. I just sent something up, brought it back. It didn't say it had to already be up there. I needed the relays for robotic craft for a later missions.. (though think I ended up dumping into new version KSP and doing another career start)
<kmath>
YouTube - We take our triple-engine Lada to the dyno
<JVFoxy>
Oh this guy...
<JVFoxy>
saw his concrete wheels... nail wheels...
<Althego>
lol
<Althego>
i didnt
<JVFoxy>
springs..
<JVFoxy>
or someone did springs.. wasn't sure if same guy
<Althego>
the aging wheels guy finished the trabant engine rebuild. he was so happy that it works as intended now
<Althego>
i have never would have thought anybody can be happy sitting in a trabant
<JVFoxy>
ya, saw that too.. was going to mention him, more for .. your three engine, I give you this little 2x2...
<JVFoxy>
2 stroke, 2 cylinder... or as some call it in the ultralight plane industry, noise maker. Throttle there just for volume.
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<JVFoxy>
some crazy steering going on with that lada
<JVFoxy>
maybe a good thing with all that weight up front?
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<Eddi|zuHause>
my grandpa had a trabant
<JVFoxy>
People give those little cars such a hard time. Make it an electric, see how it does then... the two stroke engine is neat but not a lot of power. But considering the car's small size.. still...
<Althego>
the polski fiat was smaller :)
<Althego>
or rather i think i have never seen any of the originals, just the polish ones
<Eddi|zuHause>
there exist little electric cars...
<Eddi|zuHause>
the trabant has two problems: a) it was made really cheaply, and b) it wasn't updated for 30 years after the 60s
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<Eddi|zuHause>
it would have needed continuous updates and investments into the production line
<JVFoxy>
ya.. composite material... pressed wool
<JVFoxy>
still.. its different. Which is nice in this day an age when everything nearly looks all the same
<Althego>
and a pig eats a trabant as a cutscene in black cat white cat :)
<Eddi|zuHause>
i don't think i've seen that
<JVFoxy>
pig eats... well be thankful not metal. Bad enough rats do that
<Mat2ch>
on the left are typical cranes. I see them every day out of my windows. They have to point very high up and reach just above it
<Mat2ch>
it has to be huge, a whole reactor has to fit under it...
<Fluburtur>
the whole structure is about 100m tall
<Fluburtur>
and basically 200x190m wide
<Althego>
it is kind of futile anyway
<Althego>
nuclear waste should be kept in something that can be there for hundreds of years
<Althego>
it is not guaranteed for this one
<Althego>
and even hundreds of years is too little
<Althego>
for safety it should be millions
<Fluburtur>
it is made for 100 years but its job is to allow the disasembly and decomissioning of the old sarcophagus and reactor building
<Mat2ch>
uhm, this is there to be able to dismantle it...
<Fluburtur>
because it might collapse
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<Eddi|zuHause>
Fluburtur: you can't really appreciate the scale on this kind of picture
<Fluburtur>
most of the fuel is in the lower levels of the building apparently
<Althego>
so you mean they disassemble the temporary one under this one with robots?
<Eddi|zuHause>
like, how does that compare to zeppelin hangars?
<Althego>
nice idea
<Fluburtur>
they have a pair of 100 tons cranes built in the structure
<Fluburtur>
with various tools they can put on
<Mat2ch>
and everyone is always talking about a final repository (at least here). But there can't be one. It always has to be monitored and if something happens it has to be moved
<Mat2ch>
that's what all those nuclear power advocates always forget: You have to monitor the waste for a very very long time.
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: i think the new plan was to have a storage facility where you could take it out within 500 years"
<Mat2ch>
the people in 500 years will be thankful.
<Althego>
500 years
<Mat2ch>
And they're going to celebrate that we destroyed the climate as well...
<Fluburtur>
they want to keep the high level waste under the NSC until they figure out what to do with it
<Althego>
now thin of it, 500 years ago it was the middle ages
<Fluburtur>
and put the low level wasste out to process it
<Mat2ch>
yep
<Fluburtur>
nuclear power is still better than fossil fuels so until we can run 100% on renewable energy there isnt much better
<Mat2ch>
industrial revolution startet maybe 300 years ago. Probably even later.
<Althego>
100% on fusion
<Mat2ch>
*started
<Fluburtur>
yeah fusion would be nice
<Eddi|zuHause>
i think it's closer to 200 years
<Mat2ch>
not going to happen soon
<Althego>
isont that some cad program? :)
<Fluburtur>
lmao
<Fluburtur>
build more windmills then
<Althego>
those utilize fusion indirectly
<Fluburtur>
every power we have is indirect fusion
<Eddi|zuHause>
i'm fairly confident that we can mostly eliminate the use of fossil fuels in the next 30 years. unless there are more trumps coming into power around the world
<Fluburtur>
we need some massive societal changes too
<Fluburtur>
stop the old benefit driven stuff and instead do what is best for everyone in the present and future
<Eddi|zuHause>
yeah, but societal changes don't happen by people changing their behaviour, but new people growing up with already changed behaviours
<Mat2ch>
More TNG please!
<Mat2ch>
well, I fear this will all go down the drain and we can only hope that there's life out there, watching us and maybe helping us...
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<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: 100% renewable kinda hinges on the technology to store energy
<Althego>
currently unreachable
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: if we don't make progress on that, they might turn back to nuclear power
<Fluburtur>
fusion power please
<Fluburtur>
can be used in spaceships too, cant have windmills in space
<Althego>
but you can have them on planets
<Eddi|zuHause>
also, we need to compensate for more than the current power usage, as there are also uses for fossil fuels that don't currently involve generating power, and we need to cover those as well (say, switching cars from fuel to electric)
<Althego>
btw wind turbines
<Althego>
mills are used for grain and stuff
<Fluburtur>
it is the same word in french
<Fluburtur>
like many english words actually
<Mat2ch>
Eddi|zuHause: watch the vid... it's all explained there
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: i'm about to... i'm pretty sure i heard it all before
<Mat2ch>
and going back to nuclear is no option either, when you have to rely on rivers to cool the plants, but might dry up, because it's too hot and dry in the summers.
<Mat2ch>
Fluburtur might know what I'm talking about...
<Mat2ch>
there's a reason why France imports power in the summer...
<Fluburtur>
yeah some rivers get a bit low
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: use the generated power to cool the river water :p
<Althego>
why am i creating lxcs with 3 os versions and 2 architectures at night?
<Fluburtur>
use the power to make deuterium and tritium for future fusion plants
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: france is also importing power in the winter, because of electrical heating
<Mat2ch>
how old is ITER btw?
<Althego>
you dont really need to make that, jsut collect it
<Fluburtur>
kinda old
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: fusion power was 50 years away for the last 50 years
<Althego>
how can it be old when it is not even finished
<Mat2ch>
We should've built Desertec 10 years ago
<Mat2ch>
we would have so much cheap power that we could heat our roads in winter
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<Eddi|zuHause>
you mean put solar panels in countries that can't control their own territory?
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<Fluburtur>
how do you transport the power
<Eddi|zuHause>
with cables.
<Mat2ch>
also: We have ways to store power. They want to retrofit old coal plants with molten salt heat storages and use the heat from them to make steam and power the old turbines for electrical power
<Eddi|zuHause>
we have that technology :p
<Fluburtur>
also solar panels have crap efficiency and really polluting to produce and recycle
<Althego>
except molten salt power plants dont even have solar cells
<Mat2ch>
Althego: storing!
<Althego>
yes, storing
<Eddi|zuHause>
Fluburtur: i think it wouldn't be photovoltaic, but concentrating the beam onto a water storage
<Althego>
but they are usually used with solar power
<Mat2ch>
Generating can be done in any desert
<Fluburtur>
yeah, solar boilers are better
<Mat2ch>
Fluburtur: transporting with High-voltage direct current
<Fluburtur>
at least generators are easy to make
<Althego>
just build a dyson sphere
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: the "good news" is there's going to be more deserts :p
<Althego>
dont need more fusion reactors, just one
<Mat2ch>
Eddi|zuHause: yeah, I've seen pictures from near Berlin. Looks aweful.
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: however, i'm afraid there'll always be a high correlation between the presence of deserts and the inability to control territory
<Eddi|zuHause>
as deserts are notoriously hard to control
<Althego>
territory last
<Althego>
(computer voice in z)
<Althego>
lost
<Althego>
hehe
<Mat2ch>
First: You don't need much of the desert. Second: All the other problems are about respect and equality.
<Althego>
actually all our ebergy could be produced in the already existing deserts
<Althego>
they are beg enough
<Althego>
big
<Mat2ch>
that what Desertec was about. Power for North Africa and Europe.
<Althego>
and as deserts are all around the world, there shuoldnt be a problem because of energy storage
<Mat2ch>
jep
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: in the video he says the area needed is about 500x500km, which is a decent sized country...
<Fluburtur>
still, transporting energy isnt 100% efficient
<Fluburtur>
otherwise there would be a big generator per continent and that would be it
<Althego>
but highly efficient
<Althego>
and already has quite a big infrastructure
<Eddi|zuHause>
that 500*500 is for the current energy (not power) need of all of europe and africa
<Mat2ch>
five times larger for all energy needed (in 2005)
<Fluburtur>
I like having small power plants scattered everywhere
<Althego>
so why is it not there yet?
<Mat2ch>
The one thing we're not allowed to talk about here: politics.
<Fluburtur>
and what if an asteroid decides to blow up the whole thing
<Althego>
obvious solution to global warming
<Eddi|zuHause>
Althego: arab spring happened
<Althego>
many small arachnids: poly ticks :)
<Mat2ch>
Eddi|zuHause: the project died much earlier...
<Mat2ch>
I mean we're talking about this since the early 2000s
<Mat2ch>
Nobody in 2000 knew that climate change was going to happen. Nobody, I tell ya!
<Fluburtur>
just paint all the roads white, less power absorbed then
<Fluburtur>
and no one will drive anymroe so thats a win too
<Mat2ch>
All the roofs as well
<Mat2ch>
might work
<Fluburtur>
some areas did that and they recorded slightly lower temps
<Mat2ch>
I think there was even a study suggesting this
<Eddi|zuHause>
Mat2ch: when was the kyoto protocol? 1996?
<Eddi|zuHause>
and the climate conferences started when? 1970s?
<Mat2ch>
1997. NOBODY KNEW!
<Fluburtur>
also trying to reduce or limit the human population wouldnt be a bad idea
<Fluburtur>
go all china and stuff like that
<Althego>
probably not going to happen
<Althego>
and they found out the issues wiuth that
<Althego>
but regardless off that predicted maximum population is around 12 billion
<Fluburtur>
too much
<Mat2ch>
not too much
<Eddi|zuHause>
china is going to have a lot of trouble in the next 1-2 generations because of that politics
<Mat2ch>
we just have to ditch the meat and dairy stuff
<Althego>
also not going to happen
<Mat2ch>
Eddi|zuHause: funny thing is: Japan had no one-child politics, but has the same problem.
<Althego>
because of different reasons
<Mat2ch>
Althego: it will happen, when we need the fields for our food... the few fields that are left and not fully dried out.
<Fluburtur>
if we focus on technology and societary progress and not all the current crap stuff could go sort of well
<Fluburtur>
or go all terminator but I wouldnt mind either
<Mat2ch>
we can't rely on future technology to solve the problems we have now. We have to use our tools.
<Mat2ch>
The Purge? ;)
<Althego>
no, probably people jsut kill each other just as they have always done
<Fluburtur>
download everyone in a computer and be done with it
<Mat2ch>
Matrix!
<Althego>
not to mention you cant really live on plants alone
<Fluburtur>
then go to a planet where the concept of pollution in itself doesnt make sense
<Althego>
at least without a lot of supplements
<Althego>
completely unnatural
<Mat2ch>
Althego: uh, you can
<Fluburtur>
well we can kinda grow meat now
<Althego>
yes the lab grown meat sounds promising
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<Mat2ch>
The biggest problem is B12
<Fluburtur>
adults can kinda live with only eating flowers and grass but babies and kids cant
<Althego>
that too
<Althego>
but you can find lot of ex vegans on youtube
<Althego>
do you know why they gave up?
<Fluburtur>
their skin falling off or some nice stuff like that?
<Althego>
because they were weak, having lot of diseases, tired, couldnt think straight
<Althego>
it is not really working
<Eddi|zuHause>
i'm maybe a bit fuzzy on my matrix lore, but wasn't the "use people as battery" thing a response to "humans darkened the sky in the hope that the machines run out of solar engergy"?
<Althego>
yes
<Althego>
but both are dumb :)
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<Eddi|zuHause>
vegan diet doesn't really work if you're not also using industrially produced food supplements
<Mat2ch>
Althego: it can work, if done correctly. And reducing eating meat to only 2 times a week could be enough
<Eddi|zuHause>
which makes the benefits of going vegan questionable at best
<Althego>
actually it dowant even work with those
<Althego>
tyes, yes, advocates say it can work, if done correctly
<Althego>
those people done everything they could do to it correctly
<Fluburtur>
reducing meat is fine but only eating grass doesnt
<Althego>
followed every advice
<Mat2ch>
as I said, the main problem is B12, which is industrially made with the help of bacteria
<Althego>
believed in it religiously
<Althego>
doesnt work
<Eddi|zuHause>
brb
<Althego>
yes we eat too much meat
<Mat2ch>
Believing in it religiously is the problem.
<Althego>
while it used to be luxury
<Althego>
also vegan diet is not environmentally friendly
<Althego>
you need lot of special products transported by roads
<Althego>
you might as well eat meat too, but eat local products
<Mat2ch>
no you don't need the special products.
<Mat2ch>
That bs.
<Mat2ch>
*That's
<Althego>
then eat your pills
<Fluburtur>
also having a farm without animals doesnt work
<Mat2ch>
I'm not a vegan
<Mat2ch>
why not?
<Fluburtur>
fertilizer
<Althego>
but it is true that eating meat is really low efficiency
<Fluburtur>
also having chickens is nice
<Althego>
first you need the plants, then feed it to some animals
<Althego>
and then you cna have your food
<Fluburtur>
plus having a few eggs per week isnt bad
<Fluburtur>
and they eat everything so good recycling too
<Althego>
yes even with eggs and milk only you are a lot better off
<Althego>
although i dont like milk
<Fluburtur>
man milk is super nice
<Fluburtur>
isnt it just water and fat mostly?
<Althego>
and some other stuff, but yes, mostly
<Fluburtur>
should be easy to make it then
<Althego>
so i am fine with my cheese and butter
<Althego>
but milk is not something i would normally consume
<Fluburtur>
lmao I often drink milk
<Fluburtur>
can I have yours then?
<Fluburtur>
and I give you eggs
<Mat2ch>
well, we should stop discussing this. Noone of us is a nutrition expert, so we're prone to stand to what we believe
<Fluburtur>
actually we will get chickens soon
<Althego>
just dont use them for some experiment
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<Althego>
like chicken powered rc plane
<Fluburtur>
lmao
<Fluburtur>
they will just eat everything and give eggs
<Fluburtur>
probably confuse the cat too
<Althego>
there was this monty python sketch were professional people confused the pet cat so that it could behave normally again
<Althego>
cant find it now
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<Fluburtur>
I was wondering how hard it would be to make a full size mockup of a WWII fighter
<Fluburtur>
I want to have the only full size vg-33 in the world
<Althego>
you could make it from wood and paper
<Fluburtur>
well the plane in question is mostly wood
<Fluburtur>
but I want it to be accurate
<Althego>
so it is not that different from the real one
<Fluburtur>
no motor or guns because htats hard to find but a good cockpit and control surfaces that move
<Althego>
the cockpit would be hard
<Fluburtur>
this plane is well documented
<Fluburtur>
and I would probably just keep it for me or give to a museum
<Fluburtur>
in exchange for free acess to the musuem
<Althego>
nooo
<Althego>
you have said the word
<Fluburtur>
oops
<Althego>
and you dont need it 3 tiems to make him appears