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<JVFoxy>
at a bit of an impass it seems. Originally I thought I'd do a stock craft sorta series. Its just, after seeing some creations with this one mod, things don't look quite as ...'messily built'.
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<JVFoxy>
yo
<JVFoxy>
Althego: how awake are ya over there?
<Althego>
mostly
<JVFoxy>
ah, on the upswing or down?
<Althego>
up
<JVFoxy>
wanted to poke ya on some thoughts. Though wasn't sure how... 'hardcore' gamer you were..
<Althego>
"tick tock, prince, tick tock"
<Althego>
have to go to the bakery soon. but i am not sure how soon. it depends on whether they handle this technical saturday as a saturday or monday
<JVFoxy>
erm, sorry, wasn't sure if you were feeling up to talk is all.
<Althego>
i am here
<JVFoxy>
stock vs mod'd... originally I thought I'd stay stock but, guess... sorta falling down the rabbit hole as it were
<Althego>
with the latest updates i managed to reduce my mod usage from 1 to 0
<Althego>
although i still miss the generated torque readout of ker
<Althego>
and i used to have chatterer too, but i dropped that a long time ago
<Althego>
i just dont want the pain of managing the mods
<JVFoxy>
almost 10 mods on one old version. half of them don't show up on CKAN in latest version of the game
<Althego>
they still work, probably
<Althego>
the updates are really minuscule lately
<JVFoxy>
I could force but, then I'll complaints from ckan and ksc..
<JVFoxy>
actually ... CKAN had an update recently but it crashed on me pretty badly when it tried
<JVFoxy>
other thing I'm noticing, I could be spending days tinkering with things, just getting it right before dropping into a proper session I feel is good enough to record
<JVFoxy>
I'm going to guess it was mechjeb you had going previously?
<Althego>
ker
<Althego>
i always thought a game playing itself is a stupid idea
<Althego>
so i don really need a mechjeb style autopilot
<JVFoxy>
thats... kerbal engineer redux right? ... isn't that basically mechjeb or..? I hadn't really looked into compairing the two, just heard about htem a lot
<Althego>
ker is mostly a delta v design aid for me. it can also display a lot of information in flight. but it never pilots the craft
<Althego>
i think i risk the bakery now. they usually dont care for the replacement saturdays.
<JVFoxy>
k, all best
<Althego>
back
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<JVFoxy>
oh...
<JVFoxy>
not so much an autopilot for getting into space for me.. its just, be nice to have a horizon lock while flying aircraft
<Althego>
yes, altitude hold would be nice
<JVFoxy>
well that too...
<JVFoxy>
also, given how often I end up with very slight aircraft roll/yaw despite being made pefectly mirrored. some kind of independant assist for those be nice too
<Althego>
yes, that shouldnt happen
<Althego>
not even dihedral wings help
<JVFoxy>
its been an issue for years, though not as bad these days, what with rigid connections and autostrut. Though even those don't always fully help. I noticed autostruts also takes extra CPU too
<JVFoxy>
given what I seen in the past, I'm half wondering if certain parts aren't mirroring like they should, certain flight dynamics either flipped or missed..
<Althego>
didnt seem like it
<Althego>
the effect is stronger with physics warp
<Althego>
probably it is some tiny difference between the sides, that is magnified with the forces
<JVFoxy>
ever use those tiny fuel tanks in mirrored mode?
<JVFoxy>
ah.. not rocket.. more seen a particular 'issue' with the Mk0 jet fuel tank. When I turn on show dynamics, first mirrored MK0 on one side doesn't show body lift, but everything else does
<Althego>
the white ones
<JVFoxy>
not sure if its just error with the displaying or if it actually is missing lift
<Althego>
never noticed that
<Althego>
usually body lift is too small to even have a visible arrow
<JVFoxy>
I've pulled some g's just to test.. they'll show up a bit
<kmath>
YouTube - Kerbal Space Program 2 Cinematic Announce Trailer
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<Althego>
what, 2?
<darsie>
2.0.0?
<Althego>
"not actual gameplay"
<Althego>
star theory and private division
<Althego>
no squad
<Althego>
this will either be great or huge fail
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<Althego>
i have this fear, that the soul of the game will be lost during this development
<sandbox>
I predict fail
<Neal>
in other words do I have to buy it again
<cringe>
yes
<Neal>
I can feel it already, DLC is going to be bad on that
<sandbox>
when did KSP1 become "Complete Edition"?
<UmbralRaptop>
So, actual caves, n-body, and/or less scattered instrumentation?
<Althego>
how about simplerockets n+1?
<Neal>
I want good extraplanetary colonization
<sandbox>
I want candy
<UmbralRaptop>
Only if the candy has an Isp >> 100 s
<UmbralRaptop>
Also, consider stock kRPC or kOS? Hopefully
<Althego>
maybe in liquid oxygen
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<Scolar_Visari>
Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Does it really count as a launch failure if some of the rocket gets into space?
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* Scolar_Visari
ponders if Elon Musk was actually considering threat detection as part of asteroid defense or simply hasn't read any technical literature on the subject of asteroid deflection.
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<Scolar_Visari>
Two Raptors? I didn't believe there was any conclusive evidence of pack hunting behavior!
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* UmbralRaptor
pounces on Scolar_Visari
<halcyon_b>
Clever girl
* Scolar_Visari
is pinned underneath by the large talons, per the prey restraint method, and remains alive while their predator begins to eat.
<Scolar_Visari>
Oh why could I have not fallen to something that would've had the chivalry to kill *then* eat me!?
<UmbralRaptor>
hah
* Scolar_Visari
is also puzzled as to how one would eat Scolar_Visari, as most of their biology is incompatible with that of living organisms and unrecognizable to all but the most well trained xenologists who did not go mad from their revelation.
<Scolar_Visari>
There are strange physiologies that dromaeosauridae were never meant to know!
<UmbralRaptor>
UmbralRaptors are a bit different from velociraptors, which helps some
<Scolar_Visari>
So are you not a raptor in much the same way a photino bird is not a bird?
<UmbralRaptor>
heh
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* UmbralRaptor
is sadly mostly getting devoured by grad school (and health?) issues these days
<Scolar_Visari>
That's why you should've studied time travel!
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<TonyC>
hello!
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<UmbralRaptor>
hey
* Scolar_Visari
ponders how much carriers will cost in Elite's December update.
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<kmath>
YouTube - Kerbal Space Program 2 Developer Story Trailer
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<Neal>
I see a few shots taken from the museum of flight in that dev story trailer
<Neal>
I was there a week ago
<Rokker>
MUSEUM
<Neal>
what
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<Rokker>
pretty clear what I said
<UmbralRaptop>
museum
<Rokker>
precisely
<Rokker>
museum
<Neal>
muesum
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<Scolar_Visari>
Sons and daughters of Kerbin: Live from Stellaris it's Scolar Visari!
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<Scolar_Visari>
Well that was weird. Perhaps I shouldn't try entering wormholes with singularity reactors in tow?
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<UmbralRaptop>
It's fine. Only ~7e15 kg of exotic matter got scattered around the system
<Scolar_Visari>
I'm sure there will be no negative consequences whatsoever.
* Scolar_Visari
begins to ponder the advantages of KSP II's inhouse engine.
<Scolar_Visari>
Will it have cupholders?
<Scolar_Visari>
More seriously, the non-gameplay trailer is showcasing some very parts heavy ships and bases. They would be enough on KSP I to make most computers overclock-out, send in their two week notices and apply for work as DogeCoin miners.
<umaxtu>
I think those are actually colonies. Sounds like the game treats them differently then ships
<Scolar_Visari>
Oh no, I was thinking about the very, very, very large interplanetary and interstellar ships.
<Scolar_Visari>
Including the one propelled by nuclear explosives.
<UmbralRaptop>
:D
* Scolar_Visari
seems to recall there is at least one mod that actually gets around the parts count issue by, uh, "welding" lots of small parts into singular, larger parts.
<Scolar_Visari>
A StarTopia reboot and KSP 2 on the same day. This cannot be a coincidence. Nay, it is a herald of the End Times.
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* Scolar_Visari
begins integrating the puny Humans.
<UmbralRaptop>
∫human dx
<Scolar_Visari>
Their culinary and philosophical uniqueness to be adapted to our own. Resistance is not appreciated.
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<drak>
i can't believe they went with unity
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<Scolar_Visari>
It's 2019, and we still can't make a Steam browser that's not as buggy as circa 1999 Netscape Navigator?
* Scolar_Visari
recognizes the irony of this while using IRC, something that wasn't even that advanced in 1989.
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* UmbralRaptop
likes to point out that freenode has outlived every Google product, including search
<Scolar_Visari>
I'm not sure if that's good or bad. That's like pointing out that asbestos has outlived other insulating materials in old buildings.
<Scolar_Visari>
Hah, Deserts of Kharak was Unity, too.
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<drak>
yeah but you would think with such limitations on the first ksp they would have learned their lesson
<taniwha>
which limitations?
<Scolar_Visari>
Well, the first KSP also did start out on an older version of Unity.
<taniwha>
KSP blew past Unity's limitations years ago
* Scolar_Visari
has nightmares relating to Unity and 64 bit windows shenanigans.
<taniwha>
that's because 64-bit windows was badly designed
<Scolar_Visari>
But that was . . . Fixed, I think? Certainly runs better than it used to.
<Scolar_Visari>
Nonsense. Windows is, and always has been, perfect.
<drak>
how can you exceed unity's limitations?
<taniwha>
made jumping from 32-bit code to 64-bit code a nightmare
<drak>
when you are using unity?
<Scolar_Visari>
Don't listen to them Windows 98. Shhhhhh, it's okay.
<taniwha>
drak: very easily
<taniwha>
do most of the work in C#
<taniwha>
ie, not using Unity or PhysX when possible
* Scolar_Visari
still ponders how one gets bigger ships and sharper graphics without resorting to Quantum Computing.
<drak>
i would have just went straight c and skipped unity, not that the money matters to them, but now unity gets a cut too
<taniwha>
then you'd have to do your own game engine (graphics, sound, input, etc etc), no small task
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<taniwha>
also, doing everything in C has its drawbacks
<drak>
there are many 3d engines out there and many input libraries too
<drak>
opengl, sdl2, etc
<taniwha>
those are not engines
<taniwha>
and sdl is... ick
<drak>
sdl2 is a handler for input
<drak>
opengl is raw 3d
<taniwha>
sdl2 is twice the ick
<drak>
no not engine, but other libraries to work with ogl
<drak>
sdl2 is not bad
<drak>
easy for me
<Scolar_Visari>
Obviously KSP 2 should've been designed in Telltale Tool.
<taniwha>
sdl (1 or 2) makes easy things easy and hard things impossible
<drak>
what have you tried to do with sdl that was hard for you?
<taniwha>
anything beyond the basics for input
<drak>
ah, just takes time i guess
<taniwha>
anyway, I got a very bad taste of SDL with quakeforge
<drak>
did they use that?
<taniwha>
"thay"?
<drak>
i don't know what quakeforge is
<taniwha>
it's only a google away };>
<taniwha>
anyway, I have probably 90% of the commits for quakefeforge
<drak>
and a monitor and a mouse movement and a keyboard type and stuff
<drak>
lol
<taniwha>
the problem with SDL is going beyond the LCD for the various platforms
<drak>
use opengl in combo with sdl
<taniwha>
anyway, I know enough about game engine development to know that unless you have a very good reason to roll your own, you very much do not want to roll your own
<drak>
yeah it is time consuming, if i was in a hurry i would use a premade engine
<drak>
but sometimes there is great satisfaction in rolling your own
<taniwha>
and at this stage, rolling your own includes bashing a 1996 engine into something modern (yet I do it anyway)
<Scolar_Visari>
Satisfaction can also require increased development time, which means increased cost, which means, ah, something.
<taniwha>
anyway, there's a lot more to a game engine than throwing together a graphics library and input lib
<taniwha>
Scolar_Visari: means canned project
<drak>
of course
<Scolar_Visari>
Hey, now, you can release a game prematurely too as a budget title!
* UmbralRaptop
eyes the amount of work that has gone into MJ, FAR, Principia, etc
<taniwha>
not if you're stuck rollling your own engine :P
* Scolar_Visari
tries to imagine how on earth Freelancer came out as well as it did despite its troubled history.
<Scolar_Visari>
Psht, there are plenty of games that don't have complete engines. Like, ah . . . Big Rig Racing or what's-it?
<Scolar_Visari>
UmbralRaptop: To his discredit, Newton was a bit of a procrastinator sometimes.