raptop changed the topic of #KSPOfficial to: Kerbal Space Program official channel | versions: KSP1 1.11.2 | Rules: tinyurl.com/KSP-Rules | "modcall" to call ops | Δv maps: https://i.imgur.com/CHVnEeE.pnghttps://i.imgur.com/gBoLsSt.png | < Solar_Oracle> What can you do on Venus? Unless you put up a Tibanna gas refinery and casino, absolutely nothing.
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<NGC3982>
i think i had a standard candle in my belly a few years ago
<raptop>
wikiality mentions SN1998aq as a Type Ia
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<Mat2ch>
.oO( child inside of my head asks: Can we go for a visit? Can we? Can we? - I wonder how to explain to him that we don't have ftl drives yet )
<Mat2ch>
and even with FTL drives it could take decades to get there.
<raptop>
Imagine discovering an FTL drive, but it only gets you to sqrt(2)*c
<NGC3982>
shouldnt sqrt(2)*c decrease the travel time significantly?
<raptop>
Yes, it'll take just barely under 3 years to get to alpha centauri
<NGC3982>
does travel time decrease linear with multiples of c?
<NGC3982>
i thought it would be exponential if possible
<NGC3982>
at least for the traveler
<raptop>
We're in fake physics land, so whatever
<NGC3982>
but travel time doesnt decrease linearly from <c to c either, right?
<NGC3982>
0,5c isnt 2*travel time in c to alpha centauri and so on
<darsie>
Does time pass at c?
<Truga>
depends, are you a photon? :v
<darsie>
It does, in a warp bubble
<NGC3982>
warp booblets
<Althego>
heh google, webrtc and the cursed extensions on rtp and rtcp
<NGC3982>
must be nice to be on this network right now
<Althego>
and not on leenode :)
<NGC3982>
ever since irc turned into game of thrones
* NGC3982
quickly registers #ksp2official
<Truga>
lol
<Althego>
hehe
<Althego>
do it now
<Althego>
but actually supposedly this is that channel too
<NGC3982>
i hope so
<NGC3982>
no need for separation
<Althego>
if there wasnt need for separation, the creator wouldnt have given the kerbals the sepratron :)
<NGC3982>
hehe
<Mat2ch>
I have hopes that this channel will get a bit more active when KSP2 drops
<Mat2ch>
but I'm still not sure how good KSP2 will be.
<betelgeuse>
i am so thankful this channel is active though
<betelgeuse>
makes the game so much less painful because people will help you
<Althego>
active with about 6 people
<betelgeuse>
6 very nice and very helpful people
<Mat2ch>
If they have somehow increased the part limit to 20k (on a moderate CPU and with decent fps) I will be impressed.
<Mat2ch>
betelgeuse: you are too kind
<Mat2ch>
:)
<betelgeuse>
is there a planned feature list
<Althego>
there was for ksp on the wiki
<betelgeuse>
if there aint windtunnel in there, i am not buying it
<Althego>
yes, there is a wind tunnel in the science complex, and you cant use it
<Mat2ch>
we even will get procedural wings!
<betelgeuse>
nice
<Mat2ch>
and I bet no Linux version.
<Mat2ch>
With the comment: Use proton, it works fine
<betelgeuse>
i hope not
<Mat2ch>
yeah, thanks.
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<betelgeuse>
i was really impressed with the linux port of ksp, would be really sad to see it go
<Mat2ch>
That port was never really well optimized. :(
<Althego>
since it is on unity, probably realtively easy to port
<Mat2ch>
They just used Unity and clicked on the "Export for Linux" button.
<Althego>
well, optimization is an other task :)
<Mat2ch>
And I really really hope that they don't use Unity anymore.
<Mat2ch>
C# is crap and Mono slower than Java. And I have Java :P
<Althego>
i think ksp2 uses unity too
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<Althego>
that is why i didnt get, why they needed to rewrite the game compeltely
<Althego>
if they are using the same engine
<Althego>
or was this before the big delay?
<Althego>
wiki says. windows, playstation and xbox. no linux. but it may be inaccureate, engine is not listed
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<Mat2ch>
That was before the rewrite.
<Mat2ch>
I guess they started by analyzing what they had
<Mat2ch>
then realized that the code is not very well written and flexible and started from scratch (minus the 3d models, which is a huge part)
<Mat2ch>
I'd go for a JSON format for the craft files e.g.
<Mat2ch>
You don't need to write your own parser for this.
<Mat2ch>
It's all there. Just use it.
<Althego>
you never need to write you own parser, just choose a format
<Althego>
people will wage wars about that too
<Althego>
but at least you dont need your broken implementation
<Mat2ch>
The craft files are their own format.
<Althego>
i know
<Mat2ch>
Weird choice btw.
<Mat2ch>
But that's only one small portion of the problem, I guess
<Mat2ch>
The current parser isn't broken. It seems they did a decent job there. But it takes time to do that which you can spend somewhere else.
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<Mat2ch>
what I really wonder about SpaceX's OLIT is why they removed the stairs.
<Mat2ch>
They have only a lift now. What if a fire breaks out and the lift is unusable?
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<FLHerne>
The section added yesterday has stairs
<FLHerne>
So stairlessness is probably a temporary thing for whatever reason
<FLHerne>
Anyway, it's a big empty steel structure, I'm not sure it's possible for there to *be* a fire...
<FLHerne>
The wooden boards on those scaffolding platforms might be flammable, but there's no way for it to spread
<Deddly>
Talking of fire, I was amused to see that the Ice Hotel in the north of Sweden has fire extinguishers and smoke detectors in every corridoor.
<packbart>
you wouldn't want to drown in a flooded hotel corridor
<Truga>
also ice won't melt quick enough to extinguish a fire before it kills a bunch of people
<Mat2ch>
Deddly: the blankets and pillows still can burn
<Deddly>
Truga, the hotel is literally made of ice and snow, even the structural elements. The only thing flammable is the bedsheets, and even then it won't be possible for a fire to spread
<Deddly>
I mean Mat2ch
<Deddly>
Of course, it's a simple matter of regulations for public buildings. But I thought it was funny
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<Mat2ch>
Deddly: most often not the fire kills you, but the smoke. If the bedsheets and pillows burn then this can become a serious health issue
<Mat2ch>
so having a fire extinguisher and smoke detectors is a good thing
<Deddly>
This is true.
<Deddly>
I think they had fire hoses, too
<Mat2ch>
the power grid in southern France doesn't seem to be very stable.
<Althego>
solar backup!
<Mat2ch>
yeah, that power grid really needs local backups...
<Althego>
we really need to get over the problem of core power vs green power. and the only way to do it is with storage
<flayer>
i'm exhausted Althego
<flayer>
its too hot
<Althego>
nowhere near hot here
<Althego>
maybe this week we reach 30
<Althego>
until then i dont classify this as summer
<flayer>
its going to be 30 this thursday
<Deddly>
30 gets a severe weather warning over here
<flayer>
you're in sweden
<flayer>
anything above freezing is summer
<Deddly>
Pretty much
<flayer>
"oh we are not living in perpetual darkness, it must summer"
<Althego>
hehe
<Deddly>
The meteorological definition of summer in Sweden is when you have an average temperature of more than 10 for five days and nights in a row.
<Deddly>
But of course we locals know it's summer when the polar bears migrate north to the sea ice.
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<Althego>
bird is a bit late
<darsie>
Althego is so cryptic.
<Althego>
kikkerikii
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<Mat2ch>
darsie: it's always the stream. ;)
<darsie>
bird?
<darsie>
hmm
<darsie>
kikkerikii
<Mat2ch>
the start of the stream is always this
<Mat2ch>
I have never seen it, but I guess it's a rooster.
<Mat2ch>
flayer: I'm living in darkness now, because it IS summer.
<Mat2ch>
I want to keep the heat out :(
<Althego>
hehe
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<raptop>
No, it's definitely a phoenix and not a chicken or rooster >_>
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* raptop
sees that zombie spent an hour reciting(?) pi, and is confused
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<Solar_Oracle>
The light of another star returns!
* raptop
ducks behind a few meters of regolith
<Solar_Oracle>
Regolith will not save you know, all will be incinerated!
<Solar_Oracle>
I've yet to Exterminatus anyone in Battlefleet Gothic, though.
* raptop
assumes that it's sort of difficult when they can maneuver and fire back
<Solar_Oracle>
Well, in the tabletop game, you actually had to get your assigned Exterminatus ship within a certain distance of the target world. Destruction of enemy assets is just a bonus.
<Solar_Oracle>
The only time in which you did it in the video game campaign is when you were unable to retake a world.
<raptop>
ah
<Solar_Oracle>
The tabletop game even had a special, "table" for low orbit operations (such as in assault scenarios where you'd land troops) where the defenders would get cheap and fairly powerful surface-to-orbit weapons.
<Solar_Oracle>
IE: A Defense Laser Silo with a strength 3 lance battery (three chances to damage any ship on any D6 roll of 4+ per shot) would have 6+ armor and only cost 15 points.
<Solar_Oracle>
By contrast, the absolute cheapest ship in the Imperial Navy, a Cobra-class destroyer, would cost 30 points with only 4+ armor saves.
<Solar_Oracle>
And its weaponry? Two prow launched torpedoes and a nearly worthless Strength 1 gun battery.
<raptop>
whelp
<Solar_Oracle>
Alternatively, a Missile Silo with a Strength 6 torpedo battery (equivalent to three Cobra-class ships emptying their tubes at once) would cost even less at 5 points per silo!
<raptop>
That makes it sound like it would be easy to make landings nigh-impossible. Unless you can bombard them from high orbit?
<Solar_Oracle>
And at 20 points, you could get an Air Base with 4 squadrons of fighters or bombers for a modest 20 points. Prior to the Battlefleet Gothic: Armada supplement, the absolute cheapest ship in the IN with a fighter complement would have been the 220 point Dictator-class Cruiser.
<Solar_Oracle>
Well each of those emplacements only has 1 hitpoint apiece (identical to most escorts), and IN cruisers are pretty tough with 8 hitpoints plus 3 turrets to shoot down any oncoming torpedoes and strikecraft.
<Solar_Oracle>
Torpedoes are also not guaranteed to hit even if their target doesn't shoot them down during the Ordinance Phase.
<Solar_Oracle>
But the game really justifies why it's not a trivial matter to assault a well defended world
<bees>
unrealistic:(
<Solar_Oracle>
And the number of points the defender can use on defenses is determined by a combination of dice rolls and the attacker's total score.
<bees>
btw, how does futuristic space settings deal with the issue of "any sufficiently maneuvreable ship is a exterminatus-class kinetic missile"?
<Solar_Oracle>
Kinetic? Why bother with kinetic when you have Warp Core explosions?
<bees>
good enough to kill a planet
<Solar_Oracle>
If a ship actually suffers a Warp Core Implosion, ships within a certain radius of the exploding vessel suffer automatic lance attacks equivalent to the ship's starting strength. IE: A normal IN Cruiser with a WPI could cause up to 8 hits, easily crippling other cruisers and almost certainly wiping out any escorts.
<Solar_Oracle>
We also don't have much info on the actual speed of ships in Warhammer 40k, and heavily industrialized worlds tend to have planetary shielding.
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<Solar_Oracle>
Besides, you sometimes want to capture stuff, the same as in real life. I mean, you can't use a nuclear weapon for EVERYTHING.
<bees>
?
<raptop>
no, bad bees! Stop touching the SLBM controls!
<Solar_Oracle>
OH GOD NOT THE BEES THEY'RE IN MY CIRCUIRTY! NOT THE BEES! NO NOT THE BEES! ARGHH!
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<raptop>
40k is a setting where monastaries make perfectly reasonable warpships, so things are a bit silly
<Solar_Oracle>
What's really funny is that, in the tabletop game, inertia was a major limiting for all but Eldar and Necron ships, and stopping was a big deal that required passing a leadership roll for assuming special orders. In the video game, it's nothing
<raptop>
hah
<Solar_Oracle>
Which is also kind of a bummer for Eldar ships in the videogame, as they have to be micromanaged into hit-and-run attacks or else they'll stop to fire their prow weapons and fail to increase their holo-emitter strength.
<Solar_Oracle>
Literally making them sitting ducks, and even a lowly escort can grievously damage an Eldar cruiser if it can get in on the sweet, sweet ramming speed action
<Solar_Oracle>
I wish I had kept my Armada supplement PDF.
<Solar_Oracle>
And it wouldn't surprise me if there were rules for BFG + Epic Armageddon in some of the older magazines.
<raptop>
...what does that do? Scale things up so you can take on an entire Tyranid hive fleet?
<Solar_Oracle>
Integrate the games together so that you could do things like provide orbital fire support or have transports landed from the BFG table on to a Epic Armageddon game as reinforcements.
<Solar_Oracle>
I know some tournaments incorporated the two, but I think the rules were provided by supplementary material that's long since been out of circulation.
<Solar_Oracle>
BFG:A had a Armageddon campaign ruleset and map, but I don't think it had rules for combined gameplay.
<Solar_Oracle>
Think EvE Online and Dust 514
<raptop>
yeah
* raptop
assumes that you'd have 10 turns on the ground for every turn in space, or something
<flayer>
i found dust 514 confusing
<Solar_Oracle>
Probably
<Solar_Oracle>
Battlefleet Gothic was a faster paced game in practice, though, especially since you couldn't have as many models.
<Solar_Oracle>
And virtually every ship in the game (including Cruisers and even Battleships) could be grouped into squadrons that shared leadership rolls.
<Solar_Oracle>
Squadrons also got simplified shooting phases. IE: Instead of processing, for instance, the Strength 1 shots from 4 Cobras separately, the controlling player could treat them as a single Strength 4 shot. Torpedoes could also be grouped into stronger salvos that would simplify Ordinance phase movements and rolls with a significant increase to hit.
<Solar_Oracle>
It's sad I'm remembering all the rules so easily long after people stopped playing BFG.
<Solar_Oracle>
Alright, so now it's on to something other than nostalgic melancholy.
<Solar_Oracle>
After putting it off for Jebediah knows how long, it is finally time . . . Time to establish a social media presence.
<Solar_Oracle>
I really need to get cracking on the Stellaris AAR.
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* UmbralRaptop
hasn't played stellaris, but assumes that as a paradox game it would lend itself to narratives
<Solar_Oracle>
I'd do the even more narrative friendly Crusader Kings 2, but I totally suck at that game.
<Solar_Oracle>
Which, I suppose, is half the fun.
<Solar_Oracle>
"Oh, looks like I got ANOTHER inbred heir to lead my house in to ruin."
<Solar_Oracle>
Though, in this instance, I'm using a randomly created empire in a randomly created galaxy, rather than my vast assortment of pre-written empires (which, I am sad to report, have full bios that I and only I have ever read)
<Solar_Oracle>
My faction this time is a xenophobic, authoritarian spiritualist oligarchy.
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<flayer>
lel
<Solar_Oracle>
I, unfortunately, started out with the Efficient Bureaucracy and Mining Guild civics, to soon be replaced by a dictatorship government with Exalted Priesthood and either Police State or Philosopher King.
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<Solar_Oracle>
To be represented in the AAR as the Chief Precentor seizing power instead of assuming an end to their term in the first election.
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<Solar_Oracle>
We cannot allow the myopic interests of the guilds and their lackies to control the Commonality's destiny.
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* UmbralRaptop
pictures an attempt to paint a normal and unassuming election as an epochal struggle
<Solar_Oracle>
The oligarchic elections are implied to be less open and more, "The Council of Doom has decided to re-elect Lex Luthor as leader."
<Solar_Oracle>
All the more appropriate given my empire is somewhat authoritarian to start out with. I like to think suffrage is restricted to those gold diggers running the mining guilds.
<Solar_Oracle>
The peasantry should just be thankful I don't implement chattel slavery and force them to work on the ultra-low habitability snow planet bordering the homeworld.
<Solar_Oracle>
And, yes, Stellaris does in fact have slave worlds used for nothing more than making more slaves.
<Solar_Oracle>
Although transporting pops isn't as cheap as it used to be, since now you pay precious influence.
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