<stratochief_> Probus: are the parts all labelled RP-0 configured? if they aren't priced for RP-0, they will have the original mod pack pricing
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<stratochief_> !tell Theysen I learn german through disney movies and duolingo. Although I did a reasonable job understanding "Das Experiment"
<Qboid> stratochief_: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Probus> Dang the Saturn V is big!
<Probus> Is the Nova large enough to send a manned mission to Mars?
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<stratochief_> Probus: depends on what kind of mission you're planning, and which Nova you build
<stratochief_> If you mean the C-8 (8 F-1's, 8 J-2's) then it would need to be like a Mars Direct style mission to carry out the Mission on just one Nova
<Probus> Which is FASA's model?
<stratochief_> the C-8, so like 170T to LEO, give ot take, right?
<stratochief_> maybe up to 200
<Probus> Is that enough?
<stratochief_> depends on what kind of Mars mission you're designing...
<stratochief_> I'm planning Mars direct, which is the lightest you can probably do. that requires a 80T throw at Mars, and a ~40T throw. so, barely/not quite within the capacity of a single Nova
<stratochief_> but that is 4 people, like 3 years worth of LS
<Probus> Are you using a lander and a capsule?
<stratochief_> capsule? a Mars Direct style mission is composed of two seperate launches, two seperate landings on Mars. all return fuel is manufactured on Mars
<Probus> I thought it was a hab unit and an Earth return capsule.
<stratochief_> one is the habitat the crew uses on the coast out, which doubles as the habitat and mission module once landed. second is basically 'The Martian' MAV, but on steroids, and it goes from the surface of Mars, back towards Earth and returns the crew
<stratochief_> the return vehicle is a bit bigger and more complicated than a capsule, since it houses and keeps the crew alive for the return journey
<stratochief_> I'm working that mission into my RP-0 series, so I'm currently at the "demonstrating Mars ISRU" stage there :P
<stratochief_> although like a year ago I calculated and coded the modules to make fuel on mars, and tested them in-game
<Probus> Are you doing a video series stratochief_?
<stratochief_> starts with the RP-0 FASA/USA playthough for early career, more recent stuff is in "KSP Career RP-0 1.1"
<stratochief_> I'm planning 3 future advances from where I am now. Extended duration missions to the lunar surface, using dual launches of Saturn V's, one carrying a Lunar Shelter based on traditional Apollo hardware. A LEO station program, starting with MOL/Gemini rendesvous, moving to Block III Apollo + S-IVB wetlab stations, and finally progressive Mars surface ISRU leading to Mars Direct
<stratochief_> I have code and parts configured to get me moving along all three paths. Now I need to stabilize my 1.2 RP-0 install, so I can start recording :P
<stratochief_> anyway, sleep time. o/
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<Probus> Watching your vids stratosleep
<stratosleep> Probus: NK also did an RP-0/tutorial series, if you hadn't seen that yet: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLI_cTKGllaWhVsKMRM_3axuFPcR6HYluL
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<rsparkyc> woohoo
<rsparkyc> remote tech update
<rsparkyc> fixes the bug where you don't always get science
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<Theysen> rsparkyc, no more hoping and praying when transmitting huge packets? Thank god
<Qboid> Theysen: stratochief_ left a message for you in #RO [03.03.2017 00:08:19]: "I learn german through disney movies and duolingo. Although I did a reasonable job understanding "Das Experiment""
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<stratochief> you kids and your remote tech :P
<rsparkyc> stratochief: working on some very basic procedural avionics
<rsparkyc> right now it's a 1 to 1 ratio between part weight and tonnage limitation
<rsparkyc> about to test it
<stratochief> rsparkyc: cool! seems reasonable. the trick to emulate the idea currently in Avionics will be having different avionics materials with different control powers per ton, different power consumptions, etc.
<stratochief> I'm not sure of the best way to program that. if you want some brainstorming about that, we're here to help :)
<rsparkyc> yeah, it will all be configurable, i'm just trying to get the basic mechanics down for now
<rsparkyc> but eventually, as you unlock better technology, you should be able to control more mass for less
<rsparkyc> power consumption rates should get better too
<rsparkyc> along with the ability to eventually put them in standby
<rsparkyc> and i really want a tweakable to adjust the mass limit, which would in turn adjust weight
<rsparkyc> but…baby steps
<stratochief> rsparkyc: awesome :)
<stratochief> yeah, baby steps are always the best way to plow new programming ground
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<stratochief> if you can get 28.5 T + 25.2T to the surface of Mars in a single Nova launch, all the power to you :P
<stratochief> rsparkyc: you could use the techRequired to control the amount of avionics & power draw per unit mass? https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/pull/622/files#diff-7e1b3c4b055db1976191334d3f731aa8R43
<Qboid> [#622] title: Uncrewed (but with capacity) modules can now be shut down | line endings got weird, so you can look at this: https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/pull/622/files?w=1 | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/622
<rsparkyc> yeah, that's what i was thinking
<rsparkyc> just not there yet :)
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<stratochief> hey, as long as great minds are thinking alike :)
<stratochief> Rokker: a Titan 3M could probably launch an Apollo Block III, not sure how it would do with Big Gemini
<stratochief> or Block III+
<Rokker> stratochief: itd do fine
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<Rokker> stratochief: why not make one and find out
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<stratochief> Rokker: I built a Titan Big Gemini once, looked derpy, having that big a diametre part atop a small diametre launcher
<stratochief> plus, I'm a wetlab guy. I just can't ignore those giant tasty hydrogen tanks, waiting to be colonized
<waerloga> heh
<xShadowx> i wonder how hard itd be to convert large cylinder tanks used for fuel, into habitable places
<soundnfury> Is #1436 up-to-date? How close are we to having RO (and RP-0) in CKAN for lazy gits like me?
<Qboid> [#1436] title: 1.2 Update | - [x] RSS (req Kopernicus)... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/1436
<stratochief> xShadowx: in KSP, or in reality?
<stratochief> soundnfury: external factors set that timeline, so no estimate can be provided
<soundnfury> stratochief: what things are actually holding it up? Dependency releases, presumably, but which?
<stratochief> xShadowx: in reality, NASA's AAP (Apollo Applications Program) had initially been planning for a space station to be launched by a Saturn V, where the S-II would be a wetlab conversion
<stratochief> soundnfury: I point no fingers. you are correct in believing that not all dependancies are yet released for 1.2
<stratochief> xShadowx: I'm personally planning to wetlab convert a S-IVB
<soundnfury> stratochief: I'm just wondering if any of the deps are things that maybe I could halp with
<stratochief> because my vision for LEO doesn't need more Saturn V's committed, but my lunar and Mars plans will need plenty of them
<xShadowx> stratochief: both :P
<xShadowx> in ksp i know i can simply add modules to the part, but then comes the 'how realistic would this matchup be?'
<xShadowx> and not much real life data to compare
<stratochief> soundnfury: I can only speak for RO/RP-0 needs. if any other mod maker wants to ask for assistance, they are free to do it here, or they may have already done so in their Issues/PR section on Git
<stratochief> soundnfury: for RO, you could look into using the new 1.2 support for astronaut death/damage from gforces. that is something we generally need DRE to provide, but if that KSP feature could be configured to provide that for RSS/RO realism, that would be great
<rsparkyc> and we need procedural avionics ;)
<stratochief> soundnfury: similar with the new 1.2 comms system. if parts could be adjusted to make that system provide basic comms system simulation, rather than it being all or nothing, oldstock or RemoteTech, that would also be handy
<stratochief> rsparkyc: yes, also that :)
<stratochief> xShadowx: true. in part that is why I'm sticking to a small wetlab conversion. for that, I can look at historical plans and specs, and roleplay to that
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* stratochief disapproves of egg canibalism
* xShadowx eats egg
<stratochief> xShadowx: the AAP plans are clever, and relatively well documented. LS modules were sent external to the tank, then brought into the tank by astronauts. the tank would weigh a certain amount more as a tank because they would put certain structures for mounting station stuff inside while it was being built as tankage. for example, grid floor like Skylab used
<egg|nomz|egg> stratochief: nooo it's a QM joke
<egg|nomz|egg> though I sometimes nomz egg
<egg|nomz|egg> but that's not the case here
<Rokker> stratochief: ...
<xShadowx> if one nomz self, is it still canibalism?
<Rokker> stratochief: a lot of rockets have a larger diameter on top than on the bottom\
<stratochief> Rokker: mostly fairing, not payload. and regardless, it still makes them look silly and like genetalia
<Rokker> stratochief: you disgust me
<stratochief> Rokker: and the Saturn IB gives me growth options, so I can send up auxillary payloads and supplies, ETS style
<soundnfury> stratochief: both of those sound like nice-to-haves, rather than blockers (I know DRE hasn't released yet, but replacing it seems like it'd take longer to get right than just waiting for release)
<Rokker> stratochief: DISGUSTING
<stratochief> soundnfury: why longer? the acceleration thresholds that stock uses to harm the crew could just be set to RSS-realistic values
<stratochief> soundnfury: unless I missed something completely about that new stock feature. it seems fairly straightforward to modify that using a MM patch, test, etc.
<soundnfury> the research to determine those realistic values is not something I'd be good at, unfortunately :(
<stratochief> soundnfury: why research, just check what DRE has/had
<xShadowx> ^
<soundnfury> although having said that, I've just remembered something...
<xShadowx> its just doing if g > x then killcrew
<xShadowx> although fakey design in both
<Rokker> stratochief: DISGUSTING
<xShadowx> keepfit is more realistic ;\
<Rokker> stratochief: someone should make a half staging saturn IB
<Rokker> id be interested to see how much of a dV boost that gives
<stratochief> Rokker: I'm with Colbert, Atlas V + crew = Disgusting :P
<stratochief> Rokker: half staging? I'm aware of a Saturn V that drops 4 F-1's, like Atlas drops 2 engines
<Rokker> stratochief: yeah
<Rokker> and im thinking about a saturn i that drops the 4 outer engines
<Rokker> or inner
<Rokker> doesnt matter
<xShadowx> does RO use keepfit? i keep forgettin
<soundnfury> xShadowx: don't think so, I've never had it
<stratochief> xShadowx: nope. I've never personally used it, either
<xShadowx> surprising o.O
<stratochief> Rokker: when I think Saturn IB changes, I either things ETS Saturn IC, or adding UA1205's and possibly using just 4 liquid engines
<stratochief> xShadowx: if you want to test it, see if it needs RO specific tweaks, that could become an RO recommend or require at some point
<soundnfury> stratochief: stock GLOC stuff is in PhysicsGlobals, and isn't documented :( https://kerbalspaceprogram.com/api/class_physics_globals.html#a49baef8087abaa2d53232276cc09757c
<soundnfury> (can MM even override physicsglobals?)
<Rokker> stratochief: make a saturn I with a F-1 engine instead of 8 H-1s
<rsparkyc> sstratochief: http://i.imgur.com/9YiOJ8X.png
<rsparkyc> it's coming along
<xShadowx> stratochief: its basicly just 3 G meters, so instead of stock/dre being if G > x killcrew, its like the page you just linked, if GforTime > Time then killcrew :) and more realistic
<rsparkyc> totally failed typing stratochief
<soundnfury> rsparkyc: ooh
<stratochief> soundnfury: and undocumented == that is why you test it :P
<soundnfury> stratochief: thankyou for that helpful pointer
<stratochief> Rokker: that is the Saturn IC, although I'm not the biggest fan of 2 stages, each having a single engine that may fail
<soundnfury> ... testing is all very well, but I have to have _some_ idea what the variables mean, first :P
* soundnfury looks at DRE source, sees if it has suspiciously similarly-named variables ;)
<stratochief> rsparkyc: nice :)
<Rokker> stratochief: ah thats right, i was thinking of the saturn c-3
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<soundnfury> hmm. I can't even form a decent guess as to how KerbalGDecayPower works
<stratochief> what is it set to be default?
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<soundnfury> stratochief: 2.0
<soundnfury> but I've now _finally_ found in the assembly browser the code that's responsible for using these values
<soundnfury> ProtoCrewMember.ActiveFixedUpdate, it seems to be
<soundnfury> now I can start to fiddle with the numbers
<soundnfury> ok, my simulations suggest that setting kerbalGPower=3.6 and trebling the thresholds gives pretty decent results
<stratochief> soundnfury: trebbling from what they are set to now?
<stratochief> for stock
<soundnfury> yup
<soundnfury> so that's 180k for LOC and 90k for warn
<soundnfury> hmm, unfortunately I was making my curves sane for someone with a tolerance of 1.0. Whereas a BadS Pilot with one level of experience has a tolerance of 3.66
<rsparkyc> hmm, i'm trying to set the mass of my part, but something is overriding it.
<rsparkyc> my guess is RF integration...
<xShadowx> rsparkyc: setting mass where / how?
<xShadowx> RF does indeed override part mass
<xShadowx> can either add to, or flat out replace
<rsparkyc> trying to make a procedural avionics addition
<xShadowx> in code?
<rsparkyc> yeah
<xShadowx> partmodule?
<xShadowx> impliment iPartMassModifier
<xShadowx> change mass within it
<rsparkyc> class ModuleProceduralAvionics : ModuleAvionics
<rsparkyc> {
<rsparkyc> [KSPField]
<rsparkyc> public float tonnageToMassRatio = 10; // default is 10 tons of control to one ton of part mass. A higher number is more efficient.
<rsparkyc> [KSPField(isPersistant = true, guiName = "Tonnage", guiActive = false, guiActiveEditor = true, guiUnits = "T"),
<rsparkyc> UI_FloatEdit(scene = UI_Scene.Editor, minValue = 0f, incrementLarge = 10f, incrementSmall = 1f, incrementSlide = 0.1f, sigFigs = 2, unit = "T")]
<rsparkyc> public float proceduralMassLimit = 1;
<rsparkyc> protected override float getInternalMassLimit()
<rsparkyc> {
<rsparkyc> return proceduralMassLimit;
<rsparkyc> }
<rsparkyc> protected void CalculateNewMass()
<rsparkyc> {
<rsparkyc> //TODO: add in EC mass
<rsparkyc> //TODO: change resource rate (we might need to make a ModuleProceduralCommand
<rsparkyc> UnityEngine.Debug.Log("[ProcAvi] - current mass is " + part.mass);
<rsparkyc> float newMass = proceduralMassLimit / tonnageToMassRatio;
<rsparkyc> UnityEngine.Debug.Log("[ProcAvi] - setting new mass to " + newMass);
<rsparkyc> part.mass = newMass;
<rsparkyc> UnityEngine.Debug.Log("[ProcAvi] - mass is now " + part.mass);
<rsparkyc> }
<rsparkyc> public new void Update()
<rsparkyc> {
<rsparkyc> if (HighLogic.LoadedSceneIsEditor)
<rsparkyc> {
<rsparkyc> CalculateNewMass();
<rsparkyc> }
<rsparkyc> base.Update();
<rsparkyc> }
<rsparkyc> }
<rsparkyc> i can see the logger flipping out
<egg> O_o
<xShadowx> i wish heyd make a site to paste text in
<rsparkyc> lol
<xShadowx> maybe call it opastebin
<rsparkyc> point taken
<xShadowx> pastebin*
<egg> thou hast summoned me with talk of floating point
<egg> the wrath of the egg shall be upon thee
<xShadowx> rsparkyc: anyways impliment iPartMassModifier, or if ModuleAvionics had, override its mass calc function
<xShadowx> you'll also want IPartCostModifier for costs
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<xShadowx> anything effecting mass/cost should go in those, and ksp calls them for all partmodules, so they dont fight and override
<rsparkyc> xShadowx: thx, i'll try that
<soundnfury> ok, would someone with an RSS-on-1.2.2 install like to try out this MM patch http://pastebin.com/VGCtGvqc
<xShadowx> rsparkyc: pparts, proc fairing, rf, should all be decent examples of using that if needed
<rsparkyc> xShadowx: that worked great, thanks
<xShadowx> :)
<rsparkyc> ok, now when you increase the tonnage for an avionics unit, it gets heavier by a configurable amount
<rsparkyc> so making progress on procedural avionics :)
<rsparkyc> ok, heading out for now, later guys
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<Probus> Does any part pack have the Little Joe rocket?
<Rokker> Probus: just make one
<Rokker> Probus: 4 recruits and a castor
<Probus> Recruits?
<Rokker> Probus: 4 solids, 167 kN each for 1.7 seconds
<Rokker> Probus: 1.5 seconds, sorry
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