<blowfish>
I've been told off for backseat moderating in the past (i.e. informing people of rules without being a moderator myself). Not sure how I feel about that...
<blowfish>
reporting a post seems so extreme though
<rsparkyc>
i've updated mine
<rsparkyc>
and offered to help him get stuff up to github and submit a PR to the OPs mod
<rsparkyc>
ok, now i'm really going to bed, gnight all
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* soundnfury
is attempting TLI from polar orbit with an unguided stage
NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<soundnfury>
\o !
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<xShadowx>
O.O
<xShadowx>
NathanKell is alive?!
<NathanKell>
Yep
<NathanKell>
Shocking, I know
<xShadowx>
nah couldnt be.....halucinating again
<xShadowx>
ho goes the moving?
<xShadowx>
settled in yet?:)
<NathanKell>
Getting there. Finally got my desktop back up, so definitely getting there
* blowfish
jabs back at xShadowx with a modular girder segment
<blowfish>
also o/ NathanKell
<xShadowx>
......i want modular girders, what mod?;3
<blowfish>
hope the move hasn't been too stressful. Having moved on average more than once a year for the past several years I can attest to how much of a pain it can be
<NathanKell>
The move has been...fairly bad, tbh. They lost some of my stuff (including original Wing Commander, Deus Ex, and X-Wing Collector's Edition boxes...)
<NathanKell>
hopefully findable
<xShadowx>
:(
<xShadowx>
wonder how much gps beacons are to randomly throw in stuff to track ;3
<xShadowx>
the only thing of value i got (that i care for) is my pc somewhat (cuz pricey) and my NAS case cuz my scifi collection.....but thatd prolly cuff to my wrist and never leave my sight if i moved
<xShadowx>
oddly enough it has a metal bar on the back that would fit the role.....
<blowfish>
90% sure my next computer build will be Micro-ATX or even Mini-ITX just to make it easier to move
<blowfish>
my current mid tower is mostly empty space as it is
<xShadowx>
at this point i wouldnt mind smaller atx, just because i've ditched all hdd/ssd, only a single m.2 drive now
<xShadowx>
psu/gpu and the double tower heatsink on cpu is all thats left really....
<blowfish>
have been monitoring the laptop + external GPU route for a while now, but the offerings on both sides of the equation are lackluster at the moment
<xShadowx>
i kinda wonder how long until cpu/mobo/gpu/etc are just big blocks, plug in a coolant hose, and basicly just works like veins in a brain to cool it
<xShadowx>
i dont think id ever go as far as laptop, def a box so room for air to move around n cool stuff
<blowfish>
efficiency has been improving to the point where active cooling isn't even necessary in some situations
<xShadowx>
then again could push to liquid cooling with external radiator
<xShadowx>
for low power stuff ya, play any decently high end game and your cpu be cryin
<blowfish>
always confused me why CPU coolers are typically beefier than GPU coolers, given that GPUs can typically eat more power
<blowfish>
well yeah, the "some situations" I refer to are shutting down the fans under low loads
<xShadowx>
cpu is more confined area, and gpu (atleast what i buy) have a pretty large heatsink
<xShadowx>
ya my comp does it too, just keep 34C or lower
<blowfish>
GPU has flatter heatsync with generally less directional airflow
<blowfish>
closed loop liquid coolers have been popular for the CPU but GPU remains air
<xShadowx>
gpu can handle higher heat than cpu too
<blowfish>
can it?
<xShadowx>
ya, cpu dont like >70C usually, alot of GPU can goto 90C
<xShadowx>
im assuming less circuitry so heat can escape qwuicker, but thats a blind guess
<ferram4>
Wait, NathanKell isn't dead?
<xShadowx>
? ya he his
<xShadowx>
what dream you have thinkin otherwise?
<taniwha>
very much not dead :)
<xShadowx>
hes been movin, and returned cuz he missed us :)
<ferram4>
I am apparently very out of the loop. Shows how much I pay attention.
<NathanKell>
ferram4: :P
<xShadowx>
who wants to pay attention to things? just go where life takes ya :)
<ferram4>
Heh.
<ferram4>
I think the next FAR version is going to be de Laval. Appropriate for KSP.
<xShadowx>
de Laval?o.o
* xShadowx
needs english translation
<ferram4>
Gustaf de Laval. Swedish engineer. Created the concept of the converging-diverging nozzle that rocket engines use (though he intended it for steam turbine design)
<xShadowx>
ah learned something :)
<ferram4>
Then we go kraut with Liebe (creator of wing fences for reducing stall severity on swept wings) and Lippisch (delta wing design, Me 163 is his).
<xShadowx>
how long til Cochrane?;3
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<taniwha>
200yr or so?
<xShadowx>
taniwha: dont fall out of yer chair again
<taniwha>
?
<xShadowx>
joke from last time you saw he wasnt dead, you almost fell out of your chair
<stratochief>
now I've got a small Mars lander. I could probably put it down without chutes, it has a ballistic coefficient of ~100 kg/m^2 and generates a little lift
<stratochief>
hmm, might actually have trouble throwing it with Atlas-Centaur. I'll do my best to get it down in mass, because later missions will only get heavier..
<egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a cubic shoe
<zilti>
!wpn
* Qboid
gives zilti a Hamiltonian adjoint catenoid
Thomas|AWAY is now known as Thomas
<stratochief>
like a poorly hewn cog?
<stratochief>
o/ Thomas
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<zilti>
Hmm, 9035m/s deltav... is that enough for a polar earth orbit?
<stratochief>
zilti: that isn't even enough for a conventional orbit
<zilti>
stratochief: Uh what? I can get into a conventional orbit with just a tad more than 8km/s
<stratochief>
either you're counting the sea level dV rather than vacuum ISP like most of us do, or you've got something messing with your aero drag
<zilti>
Well, I use the numbers KER gives me in the VAB. With the "Atmo" button activated. Hmm.
<stratochief>
the dV reported at ground level will be lower. a pretty small part of the flight is in signifiant atmo, so I stick with talking in vacuum dV for everything
<zilti>
Ok, when I deselect the "Atmo" button I get 15'495m/s
<stratochief>
that should be sufficient to go polar, yep :)
<zilti>
Haha :P Can I calc that somehow? I assume that would involve the earth's rotational velocity?
<rsparkyc>
yeah, pretty sure that can get you to the moon
<zilti>
But that same rocket (R7 with third stage and Fregat from RN) can't even get a Soyuz into orbit. I kinda doubt the balancing RO did with that rocket ^^
<stratochief>
we.. don't balance things. a rocket like that will have the same stats as we can find from sources of the real thing
<rsparkyc>
stratochief: i think we can cut a RealHeat release now
<stratochief>
also, R-7 doesn't use a Fregat to put Soyuz in orbit...
<rsparkyc>
i think NathanKell added you, right?
<zilti>
stratochief: Yes, exactly. Still, the real thing can put a soyuz into orbit, and without a Fregat as you said (though occasionally a Fregat is used for the Soyuz)
<stratochief>
zilti: just because you add 'more' doesn't mean you'll get more. I've launched plenty of Soyuz with RN's R-7s. try w/o the ffregat
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: yeah. I won't touch open PRs with code I can't review/understand, but since they are all merged now, sure
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: so, just a simple release? call it v4.3?
<stratochief>
*4.4
<zilti>
stratochief: The one I have here (without Fregat) has 5461m/s with the Atmo button, and 7744 without it as a total...
<rsparkyc>
yeah 4.4 sounds good
<stratochief>
zilti: you've goofed somewhere. maybe the wrong upper stage or something. can you take a screenshot?
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: anything worth saying in the notes? or simply "RealHeat for KSP 1.2.2" ?
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<waerloga>
weeks iirc
<Rokker>
stratochief: 40 days
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<zilti>
I have a hard time to believe that the winglets do indeed cost almost as much as the whole rest of the R7 rocket combined :P
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<Rokker>
zilti: blame communism
* zilti
mutters a random russian curse into his beard
<stratochief>
zilti: do they say "non-RP0" ? if not, find them in the tree.yaml and link here, if you're so inclined
<Rokker>
stratochief: I'm not sure of the 40 days was just for Dorian tho, I feel like science missions could have fit more food and stuff
<stratochief>
Rokker: yeah, possibly. or, possibly shorter, depending on the additional mass and supplies needed for the science
<stratochief>
zilti: yeah, that seems decent for familiarizing yourself with RSS and RealFuels, getting to sandbox it up. just don't expect prices to make any sense, or the tech tree to agree with what you'll eventually see in RP-0
<stratochief>
awww, yeah. going to do some Solid oxide electrolysis on Mars in ~1968, while disgraceful real timeline is waiting for the 2020 rover
<stratochief>
I mean, we pretty much know it will work. it is just a question of if the machinery gets broken on the way to Mars, or if they can filter mars dust out enough to keep the machine from choking
<stratochief>
but hey, demonstrating a way to produce oxygen and CO from CO2 is something
<regex>
I don't have RP-0 either, get over yourselves.
* regex
pouts elsewhere
<stratochief>
regex: you're not complaining about prices, so you're accepted :)
<regex>
Oh, well, okay then
<stratochief>
I personally spent a ton of time in RO before trying RP-0. there is a lot to get used to when you start in RSS with RealFuels, and plenty of fun to be had without following RP-0 structured path
* stratochief
wonders if tweakscale works on TACLS parts. probably not
<regex>
or falling into the "waiting for science and buildings to finish but I need to keep up the money generation" rut
<stratochief>
no way I'm draggin this 250kg ISRU unit along, I just want a 'proof of concept'
<rsparkyc>
RO w/o RP-0 was overwhelming for me
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: that is why I embrassed FASA, and enjoy it to this day :)
<rsparkyc>
sttatochief: make your own part
<regex>
huh. Maybe I had it easier because I was watching it all unfold.
<stratochief>
ideally, RealISRU would have a real dll mod that let you configure a part with multiple chemistry bits inside, or scale up and down the various elements for your needs
<regex>
Oh, speaking of which, confirming repo move this Friday
<rsparkyc>
repo move?
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: but yeah, tyrrany of choice is a real problem. that is why I started with and still enjoy reproduction craft
<stratochief>
regex: indeed. and thanks.
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<stratochief>
rsparkyc: KSP-RO gets RealISRU, 'cause regex is divesting
<waerloga>
I'm not a huge fan of personally using FASA/similar
<stratochief>
o/ schnobs. long time, no speak :)
<rsparkyc>
ahh
<stratochief>
waerloga: fair enough, but why not?
<waerloga>
I enjoy building my own rocket, not assembling pre-made parts
<waerloga>
consider it the early LEGO sets vs the modern ones with all the custom peices
<regex>
tbh I should have divesting a long time ago...
<waerloga>
nothing wrong with folks that use FASA though
<regex>
lolchrist I can't type today...
<waerloga>
and it's got some great stuff (and ditto for other similar packages)
<regex>
FASA engines are great but I prune the tanks
<stratochief>
waerloga: #FalseDichotomy. why not both, or hybrids?
<stratochief>
regex: have you looked at BDB? do you like their models more than FASA, or no?
<waerloga>
stratochief: as I said, nothing wrong with using it, or parts of it
<waerloga>
just not my preference
<waerloga>
I had fun making my almost-atlas rocket awhile back
<rsparkyc>
same here, which is why i custom built my saturn V
<waerloga>
making a stage and a half with 'stock' parts was an interesting challenge
<schnobs>
o/ stratochief
<schnobs>
and everyone, really. Greetings all 'round.
<stratochief>
waerloga: did you ever try making stage and a half Saturn V? that was a concept, where the 4 outer F-1's drop off like Atlas?
<schnobs>
I like me my fasa. Mostly for Gemini and LR87
<schnobs>
Stage-and-a-half *anything* is difficult without hollow parts.
<waerloga>
the other (minor) quibble is that the FASA stuff does not fit in as well with the "kerbal" look that most of the other things have
<stratochief>
FASA was a move towards more realistic parts. ShadowMage and others have gone far with that style and I really like the trend
<stratochief>
stock/stock-ish aesthetic doesn't do much for me, possibly in part because they never harmonized the look of stock itself
<schnobs>
stratochief: beware what you say.
<schnobs>
full ack to uneven stock design, but replica !=realism.
<stratochief>
schnobs: expressing my aesthetic preferences? this is still a free IRC :P
<waerloga>
says the person with an @ by their name :P
<waerloga>
easy being free for the person with power :P
<stratochief>
waerloga: come on now, when was the list time I kicked someone, or anybody got kicked here? hell, I'm responsible for most of the off-topic politics fights, or at least complicit :P
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<schnobs>
talking about which...
<xShadowx>
nobody dear speaks out of fear :P
* stratochief
kicks stratochief, off topic shigagnians
<waerloga>
heh to be honest I've not really noticed anyone being kicked or banned from here
<xShadowx>
dare
<waerloga>
except on jest like that
<stratochief>
that is just a /me , and SpaceX does it so damn much, I've added it to my humour subroutines
<xShadowx>
thats because realism can only be handled by people with sanity
<xShadowx>
too complex for little kids, and quitters :P
<stratochief>
xShadowx: no way, agree to disagree. I'm a flaming commie, rokker is a militaristic monster, and joseeduardo was a straight fascist!
<schnobs>
stratochief, a flaming commie? Tell me more.
* xShadowx
lights stratochief on fire
<Rokker>
>militaristic
<xShadowx>
theres yer flaming coomie :P
<waerloga>
til stratochief is a molotov cocktail
* stratochief
communalizes schnobs' property
<Rokker>
nah, im just a nazi
<Rokker>
minus the pseudo-socialist policies
<stratochief>
Rokker wishes he was a nazi, or that more people called him a nazi here :P
* schnobs
knew some nazis as well. The socialism was strong in them.
<zilti>
Horseshoe theory anyone?
<stratochief>
schnobs: I just started to listen to "The Guns of August", and they say Kaiser Willhelm was called the Reise-Kaiser, which is a joke I actually get!
<schnobs>
zilti: basically, yes.
<stratochief>
zilti: yep.
<Rokker>
ima go back to staring at pictures of planes and rockets
<schnobs>
stratochief: there's lots of footage, too. People made a feature-length documentary about his travels and how they were presented in the newsreels.
<waerloga>
speaking of that, USAF museum fully opened back up Rokker?
<schnobs>
(latest and bestest in mass media at the time)
<waerloga>
heading out west again this summer (gonna catch the eclipse I hope) so I'm planning out the rest of the trip too
<stratochief>
I'm surprised nobody has gotten famous on youtube, doing old-timey newsreel style news for modern times
<stratochief>
Mr Trump shows the Chancellor 'what for' !
<schnobs>
and, zilti, I'm not joking. The Nazis I knew were, like, hitler youths who happily defended berlin and were still kinda-sorta sorry to have survived. Or at least not proud of it.
<schnobs>
Or the fellow who had polio as a kid, and a lame leg, and still managed to get into the wehrmacht... where he laid track for railguns.
<stratochief>
mmmm, railguns.
* stratochief
salivates
<Rokker>
waerloga: new hangar is opened, yeah
<waerloga>
stratochief: not those types of railguns :P
<waerloga>
just guns that rode on the rails
<Rokker>
waerloga: and some nice surprises in the restoration tour if you take that
<waerloga>
k, might happen in august then
<schnobs>
but, now, for some real off-topic stuff: can I just "git pull" some linux software and expect it to compile and run on android?
<schnobs>
(hmm. now that I write it, "compile how" comes to mind...)
<Rokker>
waerloga: lemme just say, the XB-70 is beautiful in her new home
<waerloga>
schnobs: short answer: not really
<waerloga>
long answer: maaaaybe
<regex>
stratochief: what's BDB?
<zilti>
stratochief: Bluedog Design Bureau, a pretty neat mod
<zilti>
Ermh, didn't mean to ping you, strato ^^
<stratochief>
waerloga: I know. artillary pieces too big to move any other way than rail. like the Paris Gun, or Dora
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<regex>
it is insanely hard to search the forums in any useful manner...
<regex>
I checked out BDB, would have to see it in-game. I'm not a fan of tankbuttes as I prefer to build my own boattails.
<regex>
Like FASA, I'd prune the tanks, which would probably be a lot of work. Command stuff looks pretty good in first glance.
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<regex>
Does anyone know a good web reference for calculating a launch window at high latitudes? Like that two per month to the moon thing?
<stratochief|away>
regex: I recall someone mentioning a Moonfinder spreadsheet a few weeks back, maybe this is it on this page? http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/99228-win-flyby-finder-for-real-solar-system-mod-v085-rss120-for-ksp122/
<stratochief|away>
(control-F Moonfinder)
<regex>
Yeah, I saw that the other day, maybe I can dig into that for the maths
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<zilti>
egg: (it freezes reliably there for me, but apparently only that rocket - maybe because it has two "probe cores"?)
<egg>
huh that's odd
<egg>
zilti: make a journal?
<zilti>
A journal?
<egg>
zilti: freezes? crashes? or just becomes sluggish
<xShadowx>
probe could shouldnt do it, probe cores are fairly empty, ModuleCommand doesnt really do any work :P
<zilti>
egg: Freezes completely. After about half a minute, I get that windows box about having encountered a problem and looking for a solution (that box that never finds a solution)
<egg>
zilti: hmm, that's interesting, do you get a folder with the date?
<egg>
(i.e. a unity crash folder)
<zilti>
egg: Nope, nothing.
<xShadowx>
zilti: watch cpu next time, see if the core maxes out
<zilti>
Also, no unity crash dialog box
<egg>
zilti: ok, use the latest build, and make a journal
<zilti>
xShadowx: Will do.
<egg>
zilti: that is, in the space centre, set journalling to on in the logging options, and then proceed to reproduce your bug
<zilti>
egg: I assume I find that in the debug menu?
<egg>
no, in the principia logging options menu
<egg>
principia lives in its own world
<zilti>
Ah.
<egg>
zilti: that will produce a giant file called JOURNAL-some date in glog\Principia
<xShadowx>
egg: s/world/dimension
<egg>
send us that, together with the INFO log from that same play session
<Qboid>
xShadowx thinks egg meant to say: principia lives in its own dimension
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<xShadowx>
you change physics, therefor it has to be another dimension :)
<zilti>
egg: Game is still starting ^^ It worked fine otherwise today, except that I always got one short stutter when crossing the border.
<egg>
zilti: eh, that's ok :-p
<egg>
zilti: I think that's a possibility, but looking at the MJ graph there's no jump in velocity or position so I don't care
<zilti>
Great, so my KSP takes 10 minutes to start... And I hoped switching to Ryzen would improve it somewhat...
<Theysen>
on a SSD?
egg is now known as egg|nomz|egg
<zilti>
Theysen: yup.
<Theysen>
1000 mods? :D
<zilti>
egg|nomz|egg: Now it worked... Pff... The only thing different now to before though is that before, I uncoupled relatively shortly before crossing (as is visible on the screenshot). Maybe it has something to do with that?
<zilti>
Theysen: 150 :D
<Theysen>
yowsa, I heard a fast RAM bus and a high cpu speed helps :D
<zilti>
Theysen: 2666MHz RAM, and Ryzen 1800X processor, so that shouldn't be it ^^
<Theysen>
I guess a million part mods do their thing then
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<zilti>
Probably. In the VAB, switching categories or scrolling in one lags a tad.
<Theysen>
mh
<zilti>
I still don't get though how it handles memory. I thought it loads everything on startup, but switching to a vessel in space, or launching one again takes about 20 seconds
<riocrokite>
unoptimized code
<riocrokite>
single core speed is still the king for ksp
<riocrokite>
what I plan to do with ryzen is to disable cores 4+0 so it might help with OC in KSP slightly
<riocrokite>
also no ccx latency issues
<zilti>
You won't be able to overclock a 1800X very much though, AMD have put it quite at its limits :P
<riocrokite>
from what I've read +200 mghz with -200 mghz power usage
<riocrokite>
stability might be a concern however
<riocrokite>
should be stable in ksp :P
<riocrokite>
but yah already 4/4.1 in single/double core
<Starwaster>
I thought there was a PartModule that modified conduction on a per attach node basis. Did I imagine that? Am I going nuts?
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<zilti>
Ain't we all going nuts? ^^
<Hohman>
do any of you fellow space crazys play children of a dead earth?
<xShadowx>
zilti: ksp basicly has the data read / in memory yes, but alot of the plugins are recreated and fetch the needed data per scene, keeping things fairly clean and scene based
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<xShadowx>
Starwaster: not imagining it, i believe the stock crew capsules use em
<xShadowx>
er i think its per node anyways
<xShadowx>
:3
<xShadowx>
nvm wasnt per node >.<
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<zilti>
egg: ...ok, can't reproduce anymore.
<egg>
zilti: ... \o/ ?
<egg>
zilti: were you using an old build?
<zilti>
egg: \o/
<egg>
we fixed a tricky bug yesterday evening
<egg>
well it got merged today really
<zilti>
egg: No, most recent. After it happened first, I even pulled the stuff from yesterday/today, and it happened again. But now it doesn't anymore :P
<zilti>
\o/
<egg>
at what time of the day did you do that?
<zilti>
egg: Y1 D04 19:30 was the launch where it worked again. The one where it didn't was probably like three minutes earlier.
<zilti>
I love when the physics jerk at the launchpad leads to a chain reaction, first separates the boosters, destroys the launchpad and thirdly makes the main stage break up and catch fire...
<rsparkyc>
and THAT'S why i enable reverts
<rsparkyc>
but, it's always fun to test my LES when that happens
<egg>
egg: no I mean what time of the real day did you pull >_>
<zilti>
...it's possible to disable those?
<zilti>
egg: Lol! About twenty minutes before I sent you the screenshot
<egg>
well, if you come across it again journal it and send a journal, otherwise, have fun I guess :D
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<Probus>
Hey, did you hear about the executive order that allocated like 19 billion dollars to NASA yesterday?
<Probus>
It's not additional :(. Its just up 400 million from the previous budget.
<xShadowx>
yep thats nothin
<xShadowx>
needa quit giving all the money to military
<Probus>
Even though I work for the military, I agree xShadowx. I'd rather see the money go to the space program.
<xShadowx>
taking money away from military doesnt end it, its the biggest thing US pays for, constantly researching and making new toys, for what? police the world and piss off half of it ;p
<xShadowx>
a few notches less wouldnt be the end of life
<Probus>
We could get by with 1% less. I wonder how much that would be.
<xShadowx>
try 10% :P
<xShadowx>
keep the jobs, just go a year without buying more tanks and jets
<Probus>
Yeah, but then contractors loose jobs and we still have to pay to keep the assembly lines up and able to run. Just trickle it a bit.
<xShadowx>
whenever military people see cutbacks, they cry foul that all these jobs close, and thats partially true, but its because the money goes to toys, and cut back on the job side
<xShadowx>
cut back on toy side instead
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<xShadowx>
if we quit sellin toys to enemy nations, we'd need less military, and less toys :P
<blowfish>
Does anyone know of any orthographic drawings of the RD-170/171? The 180 has a bit of info available but I can't seem to find any on the 170
<zilti>
It's funny that in the USA, where "everyone" is so very anti-communist, it's seen as ok to do something inherently communist: funding a shitload of jobs with government money just so those jobs exist
<riocrokite>
just would need to come up with a plan to restructure military industry and move workforce to other branches xShadowx
<riocrokite>
quite difficult task since we are talking about thousands of workers here
<zilti>
xShadowx: the others can make their own toys alright, I doubt that'd change anything ^^
<riocrokite>
but Germany did it in I think 90' when moving away from coal
<riocrokite>
it relocated miners to other industry branches while closing not profitable mines etc
<xShadowx>
zilti: some can make toys yes, some cannot, and our toys are better anyways :P
<zilti>
Cutting down anything in the government is a borderline impossible task usually. I mean, I'm Swiss, and in Switzerland, the federal budget alone and the number of people working for the federal government more than doubled in the last 15 years. There's just no justification for that.
<riocrokite>
cough F-35 cough
<riocrokite>
zilti: yes there is, automation is forcing people out of jobs
<zilti>
riocrokite: Automation in the government? Good joke.
<xShadowx>
^
<riocrokite>
you have to put those people somewhere :P
<riocrokite>
lacking immediate new industry development a quick fix is always to expand administration
<zilti>
Here, the parliament even finally decided to make a law to stop the ever-growing government. You know what the administration does now? They pay private companies to take over part of their workload.
<xShadowx>
XD
<waerloga>
zilti: that happened here too
<waerloga>
quite a number of times
<waerloga>
most amusing knew someone that was a federal employee (military as a matter of fact)
<zilti>
Also I know two people who work/worked for the fed gov in the administration. The workflows are so inefficient it's just ridiculous
<waerloga>
left their military posting to get hired as a contractor making 2x as much for the same exact job, reporting to the same exact people
<waerloga>
and since this was part of a contracting frim, the government was paying out even more for this person
<zilti>
Yeah I think the military is the only federal thing that works money-efficient (because they're forced to). Even though public reputation is the other way around
<waerloga>
but yeah, when the government can't directly hire people, it hires companies at even more expense
<waerloga>
but hey, we aren't hiring people!
<waerloga>
also overtime goes up because stuff HAS to be done
<Probus>
We sure are hiring people. Well engineers (if you can call them people:). Can't get enough of them. Even with the freeze on.
<zilti>
And if the Swiss government for once can't decide what to hire new people for (although it happened about three years ago that they just hired 30 people despite having no job for them because they lost the election a couple months later, and just kept them - "we'll find something to do for them") they pour a couple billions in an IT project and make it fail.
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<soundnfury>
could you launch east from Gibraltar I wonder?
<soundnfury>
(/me is doing some 'fictional launch site' MM-patch mods, already done one for Iceland ;)
<waerloga>
soundnfury: looks like
<waerloga>
depends on how you feel aobut algeria or tunisia
<soundnfury>
I was thinking _slightly_ north of east
<waerloga>
I'd rather annoy the algerians than the italians :P
<soundnfury>
I think the first land you cross is Italy, was wondering if that was far enough away
<soundnfury>
(as in "it'll be going fast enough that if it breaks the debris will burn up" by the time the IIP gets there)
<blowfish>
might be too much sea traffic in the mediterranean to get a clear range
<soundnfury>
also, Gibraltar belongs to Britain, and we _love_ annoying the italians :P
<waerloga>
heh
<soundnfury>
blowfish: yeah, I did wonder about that too
<waerloga>
and yeah, sea traffic would probably be the major concern
<soundnfury>
blowfish: oh btw have you looked at my RF PR at all?
<waerloga>
I suspect that if you disregard sea traffic, then a slightyl northerly launch would be possible
<waerloga>
looks like india is in a similar situation from it's launch site
<blowfish>
which one was that?
<waerloga>
well east of india is Myanmar/Thailand/Malaysia
<waerloga>
you know what soundnfury...
<waerloga>
take over Somalia
<waerloga>
get an equatorial launch site with not much traffic
<soundnfury>
waerloga: ooh :)
<blowfish>
soundnfury: I was hoping for NK to deal with it... :) My knowledge of RF's internals is still pretty slim
<waerloga>
soundnfury: you could even do polar launches from it
<ale260382>
cheers from italy
<ale260382>
if you launch east from gibraltar we may shot you down
<waerloga>
well ale260382, how would you like the possiblity of soundnfury dropping rockets on you :P
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<ale260382>
however i don't think at the moment we have anything to do that
<soundnfury>
waerloga: hmm, madagascar might not be too happy with polar launches
<soundnfury>
(they'd close all the airports!)
<ale260382>
we may launch east from sicily towards israel, in that case i'm sure they would shot us down
<soundnfury>
ale260382: well, israel launch west towards _you_ :P
<ale260382>
yes, i think the distance is just too great for concerns
<ale260382>
anyway, i'm trying to apply some RO configs i made
<ale260382>
they work on some parts but they don't work in other parts
<ale260382>
the configs are the same
<waerloga>
soundnfury: well, you'd have two launch sites, one on the northern end at the horn of africa for polar launches
<soundnfury>
waerloga: yeah I guess
<waerloga>
though there you'd run into more shipping issues
<waerloga>
as that's the entrance to the gulf of aden and the suez canal
<ale260382>
you may launch retrograde from gibraltar
<ale260382>
that should be clear ocean
<waerloga>
nope
<waerloga>
have spain in the way
<ale260382>
mm yes just a little strip of land
<ale260382>
you have to launch from algarve
<soundnfury>
waerloga: ah yes, but the _primary_ function of gibraltar is for doing things that piss off spain ;)
<ale260382>
i think gibraltar piss of spain as it is
<ale260382>
@PART[KKAOSS_Service_g]:NEEDS[RealismOverhaul] <- this works
<ale260382>
@PART[KKAOSS_Habitat_MK2_g]:NEEDS[RealismOverhaul] <- this doesn't
<ale260382>
why? theyre the same
<waerloga>
huh...interesting.. (reading the wikipedia page on Gibraltar)