* xShadowx sees politics
* xShadowx goes back to killing kerbals
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<stratochief> crazy netsplits
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<xShadowx> whats the last....unique.....thing squad added to ksp? ie that mods didnt already do
<xShadowx> i guess i should say original idea
<Kraken> docking?
<Kraken> i think
<UmbralRaptor> There were docking mods.
<UmbralRaptor> I'd say 0.14's save system. Not sure if the dll mods that were introduced then count.
<Probus> Admin Building (Don't hit me)!
<stratochief> career/science mode?
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<UmbralRaptor> There were career mode mods.
<UmbralRaptor> Probus: maybe
<stratosleep> biomes?
<UmbralRaptor> maybe
<UmbralRaptor> hm. Probably?
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<xShadowx> part of me wonders how much of the ksp xpac is made, and if the old devs knew of it ;3
<xShadowx> recreating the wheel for $ would be somethin to avoid ^.^
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<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: I think the current Master of Principia is broken. As soon as I leave the atmosphere with a vessel, everything including the music stutters and jumps for about 10 seconds, and then the vessel flies away in a pretty much straight line with over 60km/s
<zilti> Then when I fast-forward I get an "Error extending trajectory for Tylo" after 39 days
<egg|zzz|egg> uuh wat
<egg|zzz|egg> so error extending trajectory for tylo would imply you have a different system? or that somehow you don't get the same system on *nix? blaaargh
<egg|zzz|egg> and the other thing? I have no idea, but here it works
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: I'm running it on Windows 10 now (I couldn't build it on Linux). And it's the stock system. Maybe a seemingly unrelated mod? :\
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: O_o with the *latest* master?
<egg|zzz|egg> that's weird
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: yes. Especially that sudden acceleration, I already had that when I tried a week ago.
<egg|zzz|egg> try an actually stock KSP, with a fresh build of mockingbirdnest/master
<zilti> Ok, will try that this afternoon.
<egg|zzz|egg> (remember to clean the solution, sometimes VS does silly things with incremental compilation)
<egg|zzz|egg> (and build the right thing of course, that's an easy mistake to make)
<zilti> "an easy mistake"? Well, I did remove the code coverage solution in VS2015, because otherwise it wouldn't build, but then just ran the "rebuild_all_solutions.ps1".
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: hmm, if you do it that way and it doesn't break, it should work I guess?
<Thomas> According to his issue on github, he runs on 1.2.2. That *might* be the problem
<Thomas> principia#1272
<Qboid> [#1272] title: Current build of Master branch broken | I've built the current Master branch using VS2015. I'm on KSP 1.2.2. Solar system is scaled to 10x, I also used the Kopernicus config given in the Principia docs (and 10x-ed the semiaxes in there).... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1272
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: I'll let you know :)
<egg|zzz|egg> Thomas: yeah, but he's using the current master, which does target 1.2.2
<egg|zzz|egg> but which also has the property of working on my machine
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: you use x64 of course right?
<Thomas> Ah, ok. Thought all the 1.2.2 stuff is still in the other branch
<egg|zzz|egg> we reconverged recently
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: yes, x64. Btw I rescaled the system with Sigma Dimensions
<zilti> I'm not at home until a bit later, but the only other mod I could imagne messing with it would be the RO configs (cloned master)?
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: "I rescaled the system with Sigma Dimensions" the FAQ, you shall read it "A possible solution to the Jool problem specifically is to increase the size of the orbits of the Joolian moons, while making Bop's orbit retrograde. This Kopernicus configuration will do this, like Principia does on a stock system. A word of warning: if your mod rescales the stock system, that config will not do the job; make a big (or
<egg|zzz|egg> small) retrobop yourself.
<egg|zzz|egg> "
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: yes, I've read that - and as I said I 10x-ed the semiaxes from the provided retrobop config. Also, on map view even after the error, the orbits in the Jool system looks normal
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: right, I'm not in the business of debugging your custom system though, so try pure stock; reproducibility is hard enough with someone else's build already
<egg|zzz|egg> (in fact we're having reproducibility issues between our own build and its replay right now, so everything is awful)
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: but essentially your issue is useless until you try things with a clean master build on a stock system
<egg|zzz|egg> (orbits can look normal even with a bad fit)
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<stratochief> o/ all, and ferram4
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn stratochief
* Qboid gives stratochief a nutating function
<xShadowx> nutating o.O
<xShadowx> i have not seen this word
* xShadowx learned something from google
<TonyC> so, i just took my first attempt as RSS, is installing SMURFF a good idea ? RO seems waay too complex for me, and it seems that stock parts are extremely underpowered
<TonyC> oh, and has anyone made a patch for RSS that disables Earth's tilt ?
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* stratochief mocks TonyC for disliking axial tilt
* TonyC apologizes.
<stratochief> TonyC: SMURF is fine, definitely recommended for dipping your toes in RSS
<stratochief> TonyC: personally, I use MiniRO, but SMURF is probably easier to install, since CKAN can do that for you
<stratochief> they do similar things
<TonyC> alright, thanks
<stratochief> RO is definitely complex; when I learned it I used FASA, since mimicking historical vessels is somewhat easier than making successful launchers and payloads from scratch
<stratochief> and once RP-0 is out for 1.2.2, IMO that is a great way to gradually get dipped into RSS, RO, and RF stuff, since it limits your parts and options from the start, so you can gradually learn lessons rather then being overwhelmed
<stratochief> although you could install RP-0 for 1.1.3 ; RSS + smurf seems like a good way to go as well ;)
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<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: So I retried it. The ridiculous speed gain exiting the atmosphere seems to be a problem with Sigma Dimensions. I noticed that the stuttering comes from it jumping in and out of the atmosphere rapidly for about five seconds, each time gaining an enormous amount of speed.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: so on my side I tried RSS, and here it works; so that's either sigma dimension being borked or your build
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Yeah I removed Sigma Dimensions for now. I also had another problem that I didn't check yet but suspect is because of Sigma as well, and that is a ridiculous flickering in map view when map view is supposed to render Kerbin's clouds/atmosphere.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: do the clouds work without sigma dimensions? I haven't tried with cloud mods recently
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Yes, they do (using EVE and SVE here) work just fine.
<egg|zzz|egg> ok
<egg|zzz|egg> then I don't know what Σ does, but I guess we don't like it :-p
<zilti> Absolutely.
<zilti> On other news, my new mainboard delivery got delayed, and I won't be able to launch a Soyuz in the foreseeable future, since that makes the graphics go down to about 5 fps...
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<xShadowx> zilti: dont roll over and accept excuses, important things are at stake! :P
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: phl responded to you issue
<egg|zzz|egg> o/ diomedea
<diomedea> \o egg
<egg|zzz|egg> diomedea: so we decided to switch to new release every new moon after Cardano, this is the calendar: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uQjgDsFszE1AiYKJEZW_dOd8kgmz7jk_3QUDvmOVDK8/edit?usp=sharing
<diomedea> good decision. Anything in store for the spring equinox?
<egg|zzz|egg> diomedea: nah, we'll be strictly lunar :D
<diomedea> eheh, ok, your rules :)
<stratochief> so, I did a test of my artifical gravity system in twitch; I'll probably improve the craft again, stream it live again today or tomorrow, then post it to Youtube
<zilti> xShadowx: I tried, but it broke apart due to low-FPS wobblyness :P
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<stratochief> Rokker levels up at skill: Troll
<Rokker> stratochief: fucking christ
<Rokker> russia man
<Rokker> scary place
<Probus> What's Russia up to?
<stratochief> it is how Russsia openly poisons enemies with Polonium, which is a nuclear weapon trigger material, that gets me the msot
<stratochief> I don't have many pleasant things to say about the US of late, but I'm more likely to visit there than Russia
<zilti> I wouldn't visit the US myself though. They're way too nosey at the border... It's kinda a shame.
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<xShadowx> i'm more likely to visit US than visit somalia, doesnt mean US is great :P
<xShadowx> uncle still thinks trump building a wall is a ploy and will never happen ;3
<Theysen> would be better for the money
<zilti> Well, most of the wall already exists anyway
<Theysen> but it creates work places
<Theysen> taken by immigrants most probably lol , 11/10 logic /S
<xShadowx> heh with jobs made, in that location, .....
<xShadowx> ninja
<xShadowx> -.-
<zilti> Great. I replaced Sigma Dimensions with "10x Kerbol System", and now the game crashes upon creating a new game -_-
<Theysen> never change a running system
<Theysen> and why use another mod than one which does the same?
<zilti> Because Sigma Dimensions 1. has some weird behaviour like inducing flickering in map screen 2. completely breaks Principia
<Theysen> aaah :)
<Theysen> you gotta be kidding me, why is this LM for the "expansion" not even round, e.g. for the adapters oO I can count the corners and stuff, isn't it 2017?
<Probus> What do you mean Theysen?
<Theysen> the shapes of the LM at the adapter plate is not round
<Theysen> i thought SQUAD would up their model and texture game now it's stable :/
<Probus> Ah, hadn't seen it.
<zilti> Crappy Unity probably couldn't handle it?
<riocrokite> dunno, I like the design
<Theysen> zilti, nah can't be the reason since the procedural decoupler e.g. is round
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<riocrokite> how many kerbals does it accomodate? i guess 2?
<xShadowx> unity can handle quite detailed models
<xShadowx> id lean more towards the modeller/texturer for why its that ...quality
<Probus> What's the lower half look like... or is there a lower half?
<Theysen> not yet shown Probus
<Theysen> was a "teaser" and it doesn't tease me with the stuff we have available as mods
<Theysen> xShadowx, I now know who's work it is, i'm out
<riocrokite> Theysen: we are not the target group of this expansion :P
<Theysen> we should be a separate stand alone expansion
<riocrokite> anyway, had to do a clean os install today, back to installing and configuring software
<Theysen> it can be a pain but I kind of fancy having it so clean
<xShadowx> riocrokite: target group = silly stock purists who refuse to use a mod until squad forcefully copies said mod into stock?:P
<xShadowx> then theyre all for it o.O
* xShadowx is confused by that
<xShadowx> i dont really wanna rag on squad, but why cant they do something unique that benefits both sides?
<xShadowx> things that dont exist ;_;
<xShadowx> like ksp with voxels
<xShadowx> or editable terrain
* xShadowx hides Thomas away
* Thomas suggests that squad makes the pqs less crappy
<xShadowx> Thomas: what ever happened with you, ksp, and voxels, anyways?:3
<Thomas> ksp refused to do anything useful
<xShadowx> :(
<Theysen> i want kerbal cases and head skin packs
<xShadowx> uh texture replacer changes head skins :D
<Theysen> was a joke
<Theysen> wait the prereleae is out?
<Theysen> I can now switch to german and go cry in a corner?
<xShadowx> o.O
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<Thomas> Theysen: No german
<Theysen> wut?
<Thomas> Yeah, they only have spanish, chineese and russian or so
* xShadowx headdesk
<Theysen> but it's open ground for more languages hence all the coding for localization?
<Theysen> so it's not static
* Thomas points Squad at the community translations for german and french they could've ripped off
<stratochief> What is a german dimmunitive? Aww, meine Leibling? or is that just a cutesy relationship dimmunitive?
<Thomas> Theysen: Kinda, there is no ingame interface for selecting a language and the config format is meh
<xShadowx> soooo many mods arent going to translate all their text
<Theysen> stratochief, Leibling sounds like a slave
<Theysen> try Liebling
<Theysen> so where do I change the language, Thomas? oO
<Thomas> settings.cfg
<Theysen> uhm okay
<Thomas> But for me, KSP only had one language (steam user)
<Theysen> here too, "welcome to the Prerelease 1.2" polished it seems
<Theysen> stratochief, are you flirting with a german girl
<stratochief> Theysen: no, I was trying to find a way to mock you for german crying in the corner :P
<Theysen> I don't have to since it isn't implemented :D
<Theysen> my classes at university about rocket engine thermodynamics and stuff was using german descriptions and meh, I'd rather not
<Thomas> Install the community translation :P
<Theysen> in another life maybe :P
<Theysen> Delta Pfau
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<zilti> "Pfau"? Haha
<Thomas> :D
<Theysen> it's a stupid joke if you know how "V" is pronounced in german, and some people tend to over pronunciate the beginning of the word, im sorry
<zilti> Theysen: I know, I'm Swiss :P Thank god we spell it differently ^^
<Theysen> ah nice :) gruezi
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<zilti> Gr??essech :P
<zilti> Hmm seems like there really is no way to get a real-scale Kerbol system. Guess I'll be using RSS.
<blowfish> 10x isn't too far off
<xShadowx> whats it 64x rescales kerbal system to sane size
<xShadowx> or is it 10x
<Theysen> 10x
<Theysen> 64k was the middle ground where stock ran off to be viable
<Theysen> or at the sweet spot fuel / mass fraction wise? I tend to forget that stuff
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<riocrokite> 64k+ smurff is supposed to work nice so realistic weights with 6.4x kerbal system
<zilti> Afaik the 6.4K mod is just a config for Sigma though
<zilti> I'm pretty sure RSS is 10x the Kerbol system
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn zilti
* Qboid gives zilti a platinum laser
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn Theysen
* Qboid gives Theysen a Renesas IOMMU
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn Thomas
* Qboid gives Thomas a pi warhead with a buzzard attachment
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<xShadowx> !wpn egg|zzz|egg
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<Theysen> lol
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: grmbph
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: I tested it on my end with RSS, it works
* zilti looks at his platinum laser
<egg|zzz|egg> so I'm not sure what's up there, but I'll assume you screwed it up
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: did you get out of the atmosphere under thrust or not?
<egg|zzz|egg> I may have tested only under thrust
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: no, not under thrust.
<egg|zzz|egg> wait no I tested both actually
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: welp something's not working like it is here
<egg|zzz|egg> wait until you have our build, I guess, that way that's out of the equation
<zilti> Yes, sometimes small changes in the build env result in some weird stuff
<egg|zzz|egg> you are building from mockingbirdnest/master, not zilti/master, right? because you're still 24 commit behind
<zilti> Yes, I'm building from mockingbirdnest/master. I forked it to tinker around with building it on Linux, with which I ultimately failed
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<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: btw, master is very much the shapeshifting mess on which we develop, so it's not ideal to report bugs about it; better use the releases, for which we provide a build etc. (admittedly there's no recent release, but that's because it's still in the shapeshifting mess state :-p)
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