<stratochief|away>
if anybody can make a vessel with a big, non-Service Module tank filled with LH2 on Mars, that doesn't boiloff (without juking the boiling point of LH2) you will earn my undying gratitude, if you share with me your secret
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<xShadowx>
stratochief|away: by ime its on mars, little sun, so whats the causes of boiloff? sun, ambient/atmo
<xShadowx>
my last trip sending a probe to mars, i used used heatshield, 2 tanks, so i could shift fuel and flip heatshield to behind me when lower atmo and around to land, used heatshield as umbrella from sun - not sure how effective it was, didnt sit n measure, but its an idea than seemed to atleast help
<xShadowx>
on that n9ote, would be nice to have just cloth, maybe u5 has a cloth sim? when chutes are going to cut and go poof, replace with a cloth that can settle heh
<xShadowx>
would make a nice tent
<Tmike>
wont a cyro tank do it, I men thats there whole persis for being is to keep fuel form boiling off
<Tmike>
though I did just see something interesting :P
<leudaimon>
rsparkyc, what happens to the tonnage limits for proc. avionics when the fuel is consumed, and the vessel goes below the limit?
<rsparkyc>
it should still work, all that's used for is to set the minimum value of the slider
<leudaimon>
oh, ok then!
<rsparkyc>
it's the minimum amount it can be configured to controll
<rsparkyc>
not the minimum amount it *can* controll
<leudaimon>
nice... the abuse will be limited to what people do already, like using an agena core as a relay satellite bus, but that would be very hard to prevent, and maybe not even desirable
<SirKeplan>
it is a sandbox game after all
<leudaimon>
^
<rsparkyc>
SirKeplan, are you saying my kerbals don't have……feelings?
<rsparkyc>
say it isn't so!
<SirKeplan>
they have feelings, you can see it on their faces, especially when they plummet to their doom..... :/
<xShadowx>
my kerbals plummet to their doom
<xShadowx>
they blow up, suffocate, burn, get beat up, but no plummet to doom
<xShadowx>
that mean my kerbals dont have feelings?:(
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<Tmike>
are you killing astornoughts again?
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<Tmike>
you know the idea behind a maned space progam is not to kill your flight crews
<xShadowx>
Tmike: to not kill by intent you mean, dangers exist, im not the type to pretend they dont
<xShadowx>
just because a kerbal can land on its head moving 300m/s in stock game, doesnt mean thats how life is ;p
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<Tmike>
thats true, but you take steps to minize those risk
<Tmike>
which is why lanch escape systems exist
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<Tmike>
not that I dont think Nasa has gone a little to far to error on the side of coction
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<Tmike>
hmmmm odd why did Prasadent obama caancel the Ares....... it looked like it was just about ready to go into production...
* Tmike
rubs beard
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<stratochief|away>
Tmike: blame it on the RS-68's ablative nozzle not suiting it well to clustering, not Obama
* xShadowx
agrees with blaming obama
<stratochief|away>
they'd need to design and test a whole new RS-68 varient for Ares use, although IMO that would still have been cheaper then going RS-25 & SLS route
<stratochief|away>
better to throw priceless works of art into the ocean instead of undergo an extensive redesign and testing period?
<xShadowx>
how hot does rocket exhaust get?
<xShadowx>
i just had a thought, how practical is it to not cluster / stay single engine rockets, but then spread em with a bit of framework between, and payload (obviously added in space) just being cabled between and behind the rockets
<stratochief|away>
"the ablative nozzle of the RS-68 was poorly suited to this multi-engine environment, causing reduced engine efficiency and extreme heating at the base of the vehicle"
<stratochief|away>
which contributes to my impression of LH2 as "not suited to first stage applications"
<Tmike>
thing is we already had a ecessefly test of on of the Aries Rocket deziens the Aries 1 I think ,,,, So lets throw out all the RD we already spent, and desgien a whole new system when where plaining to retare are maned lanche systen the fallwing year
<Tmike>
no wonder people like bill wittle are loseing fath in a goverment angancy
<Tmike>
But then I think it was a mastake to slash nasa's budget so much after the moon landing.... and probly would have contuind the AAP, or went with the full SLS program reather then the small peace we got of it
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<SirKeplan>
Full STS you mean
<SirKeplan>
Tmike: well the Ares I rocket flown was really a cheep cobble together just to verify the aerodynamics, it didn't have the new 55 seg first stage, and it only had a dummy upper, so it's not like the launch was any mark of an advanced stae of development
<SirKeplan>
state*
<stratochief|away>
my memory agrees with SirKeplan's recounting. there is a lot of difference between "the Ares hardware was GTG at cancel" and "an aero test of Ares I was run, shortly before cancel"
<Tmike>
oh but how was it more coust effective to scrap it and the develip a new lancher for Orian
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: I don't think that is knowable, the cost and wait of making a new RS-68 for it and a new upper stage for Ares I was unknown, and will remain unknown
<stratochief|away>
if they cancel SLS, they should just name the next NASA stalled launcher concept Godot, so we aren't surprised waiting forever for it
<stratochief|away>
Ares V would probably have seen serious delays, since they needed the new engine, but we would have seen it fly a few years ago if they had carried on with it, and they had funded it to completion and given it payloads
<Tmike>
oh yeah it was the Aries one that used the J2x
<stratochief|away>
that one too; the RS-68B, and getting the J-2X into production and a stage designed, built, tested
<leudaimon>
lol great waiting for godot pun!
<SirKeplan>
both used J2X upper stages, Ares I for getting to LEO, Ares V for orbit insertion and then TLI/whatever
<stratochief|away>
leudaimon: science and art/culture nerds could unite in laughter and tears
<leudaimon>
:D
<Tmike>
I thought it was basicly a working simplifcation of the Apollo J2 besicly exictiong technolagy?
<stratochief|away>
J-2X was a step off existing technology, sure. that doesn't mean it doesn't need serious development to human rate it and get it into cheap production, and design/develop an upper stage to pair it with
<SirKeplan>
IIRC it was meant to be a revamp of the old J-2S, but they more or less built a new engine in the same thrust class
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<SirKeplan>
yeah i'm reading it was a clean sheet design
<stratochief|away>
oh yeah, wiki says 'clean sheet
<stratochief|away>
2 seconds, you beat me
<SirKeplan>
:P
<Tmike>
the stange or the j2?
<stratochief|away>
actually, similar to the RS-68. still, heritage something something
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: both, apparently
<SirKeplan>
the J-2X, it needed more thrust than the old Apollo one, so it became a new design
<stratochief|away>
I like the J-2X over the RL-10 upper, personally. better for LEO, TLI, and not bad for TMI
<SirKeplan>
same, you need a ridiculous amount of RL10s to be good for a heavy lift like that
<stratochief|away>
SLS's upper stage (that hasn't even seen design yet, IIRC) has really high ISP, low thrust. good for beyond Mars
<stratochief|away>
but.. i want to go to the Mars
<SirKeplan>
though a high Isp engine with maybe half thrust might be better
<Tmike>
I did read that the j2x would have better thrust, and fewer internal parts then the old j2, but if its a clean sheet its not truely a varent
<stratochief|away>
yeah, the original J-2 was a strange design. fairly expensive and complex, not very efficient for a hydrogen burner
<Tmike>
and the AJ-10 sounds like an existing part a compleantly off the shelf existing part
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: you mean RL-10?
<Tmike>
reah the RL-10 sorry typo
<Tmike>
but I cant remember what used it
<stratochief|away>
yeah, SLS is off the shelf (of a museum) engines, newish SRBs. poor NASA, such a shadow of their former self. starved by the government the cozied up to
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: Centaur, DCSS
<SirKeplan>
Tmike: probably the Altair lander?
<Tmike>
well space ex uses surpluse russien rocket engines
<SirKeplan>
Tmike: lol nope
<stratochief|away>
? noo
<Rokker>
stratochief|away: "cozied up to meaning entirely dependent on?
<Rokker>
Tmike: um what?
<SirKeplan>
Tmike: you must mean orbital ATK
<Rokker>
SirKeplan: which isn't true either
<Rokker>
anymore
<SirKeplan>
not now, nope
<SirKeplan>
they are new engines now
<stratochief|away>
Rokker: yeah. so now they rely on congress critters protecting the construction of X here in butt-fuck district X, and space widgets in district Z
<Rokker>
thee only people using surplus russian engines are russia
<stratochief|away>
rather than having a goal, finding, aiming for efficiency
<stratochief|away>
Atlas V uses a russian engine, eh?
<Rokker>
not surplus tho
<SirKeplan>
stratochief|away: yeah but not 'surplus'
<stratochief|away>
fair enough, you're both right. Tmike: 0 :P
<Tmike>
and not any more not sure whats going to happen to the atlas V and space x may now be useing new built Russion engens, and but supless I ment a buch of engens that the rusinse made for the N-1 but never used and set in ware house.....
<SirKeplan>
Tmike: SpaceX uses their own engines
<Tmike>
doesnt mean there bad engines just that the where not used.... and not the best way to go about what the russions bult them to do
<stratochief|away>
made in 'Murica. launched from 'Murica. brought back to 'Murica after stage recovery. SpaceX = 'Murica
<Rokker>
Tmike: spacex doesn't use anything russian
<Rokker>
what are you talking about
<stratochief|away>
26 or 30 engine cluster'd first stage for N-1 , what's the worst that could happen
<Rokker>
Tmike: the only people who used surplus N-1 engines are the russians and Orbital ATK
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: this is the upper stage for SLS, 1 little RL-10 to throw Orion around Le Mond
* Tmike
rubs beard
<Tmike>
ok I stand crected
<leudaimon>
Tmike, I guess you are mixing SpaceX and ULA also... ULA produces the Atlas V, that uses the RD-180, which is Russian
<Tmike>
But is there really a problem with with useing exicting Rocket engines?
<stratochief|away>
Elon originally went to russia to use old hardware to throw a greenhouse onto Mars for a photo-op. then he got schooled in aerospace
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: when they have a higher chance of exploding, taking your payload with it like Orbital ATK, IIRC, yes
<SirKeplan>
Atleast the NK-33s should be getting used up on the Soyuz 2.1v still.
<stratochief|away>
true :)
<stratochief|away>
I never thought I'd get to 2017, suborbital tourism not being a thing.
<SirKeplan>
well, atleast New Sheppard exists
<SirKeplan>
not far off
<SirKeplan>
at all
<stratochief|away>
seriously, 2 crew for lunar flyby tourism before suborbital gets off the ground? Musk is just no-scope heatshotting er'body
<stratochief|away>
SirKeplan: predicted first crewed test of New Sheppard? predicted first paying ride?
<SirKeplan>
crew is meant ot be this year
<SirKeplan>
2nd quarter, don't know if that is still the plan.
<stratochief|away>
Falcon Heavy's first launch is supposedly 2nd quarter, isn't it :P plan's be slippin
<Tmike>
what will nassa used for there planed luner flyby?
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: SLS + ICPS, Orion to hold the peoples
<Tmike>
and sls is ready for a maned launch?
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: depends who you ask; Saturn tradition was to launch at least once uncrewed before starting crewed launch
<stratochief|away>
but NASA could in theory crew the first SLS launch. i don't really support that though, the ICPS upper stage isn't intended to be man rated for reliability
<stratochief|away>
first SLS launch would be next year, IIRC?
<Tmike>
though does any one else find the 1 in 2000 failer abit ecessave for a maned rated rocket.... and has that ever really been acopleshed?
<stratochief|away>
Tmike: I find it hard to argue with, in my field we aim for as low risk as is "reasonably accomplishable", which will vary depending on the situation/scenario
<stratochief|away>
hard to judge unless I know the marginal cost/marginal benefit of being more or less reliable than the standard of 1 Challenger level, soul crushing failure per 2000 flights
<Tmike>
yeah in some onf the animantions of how its supsto work it looked like the launch escape tower pulled a way a farrring over the crew capsule though I might be thinking about syuze
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] PhineasFreak opened pull request #1579: RD-103 global engine config updates & fixes (master...RO-RD-103-Engine-Config-Updates) https://git.io/vyMDC
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] rsparkyc closed pull request #1571: Fixed IVA model for landerCabinSmall (master...master) https://git.io/vysDo
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] rsparkyc pushed 6 new commits to master: https://git.io/vyys2
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 81b1029 Ryan Caskey: Fixed IVA model for landerCabinSmall
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master a9f0cce Ryan Caskey: Merge commit '3cc45e2a644ac64d2d491f3c7ca56b8cf8e1d512'
<github>
RealismOverhaul/master 34f8456 Ryan Caskey: I think this is working towards a better solution. I am using the same IVA model, but I’ve added another seat, and given each seat a name. However, I’m guessing those names need to be tied to something to place the kernels there properly, because right now that is visually not working (though we don’t get errors like we did before)
<github>
[RealismOverhaul] rsparkyc opened pull request #1580: Fixed engine plume for lunar ascent engine (master...master) https://git.io/vyyGe
<rsparkyc>
has anyone had issues with the lunar ascent engine's plume?
<rsparkyc>
i made a PR that fixed it for me, but i'm just surprised this hasn't been reported before
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<stratochief>
artificial gravity experiment in stock with KIS/KAS was successful, fascinating. I might make a video just about that, since it is interesting
<stratochief>
I carried out transposition and docking between the CSM and dry S-IVB dry stage, teathered and went to a 40 metre distance
<stratochief>
roughly 3 rpm rotation, getting about 0.33-0.40 G of artificial gravity. now, to see if Persistent Rotation will respect it.
<stratochief>
lots of crazy little chaotic ossolations in the gravity though, with both elements at the ends flopping around a bit
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<stratochief>
Ohhh, amazing. If I attach two craft with a teather, spin them up, I can create artificial G (enough to make Kerbals pass out, if desired) and change modes, allowing for timewarp with Persistent Rotation
<stratochief>
I'll record a video showing the proof of concept this weekend or something, you could even use the technique to perform a hammerthrow :)
<stratochief>
so, my RP-0 space program will have two routes to testing human resistence to partial G; spin-stations and long duration lunar stays. Take that NASA
<xShadowx>
so when we gonna have a funeral for NK? we havent had one yet ;p
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<stratochief>
xShadowx: because, when he was in here a week or so ago was a group halucination? :P
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: o/
<xShadowx>
stratochief: does it work for normally attached parts? i remembered it didnt have G based on kerbal seat when single part spun (tested a pod), but didnt try 2 pods seperated by a bar o.O
<xShadowx>
yep group halucination ;3
<rsparkyc>
\o
<stratochief>
xShadowx: I'm using the winch tool from KAS/KIS. I'll spin them up to ~6.5G, then switch modes and see if they still pass out