<rsparkyc>
Writing output to /Users/rcaskey/Desktop/KSPMods/RP-0/bin/../GameData/RP-0/Tree.cfg
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<stratochief>
lol. what I do is just steal the old Tree.cfg from an old KSP release
* stratochief
is not much of a PERL person
<SirKeplan>
stratochief: that's a terrible way to do it :P
<stratochief>
don't hate the player, hate the game!
<SirKeplan>
the tree is probably the biggest part of RP-0
<SirKeplan>
:D
<stratochief>
sure, so I have the tree from the previous release *shrug*
<stratochief>
most of what I use is proc parts or FASA anyway, after all
<rsparkyc>
o/ stratochief
<stratochief>
\o rsparkyc
<rsparkyc>
pushed the procedural parts branch to the RP-0 repo
<rsparkyc>
working on a readme for it
<rsparkyc>
right now, it should just require some MM additions for tech levels
<rsparkyc>
I'm putting together how that all works in the readme
<stratochief>
I'll read your readme :)
<rsparkyc>
i'll let you know when i'm done with it
<stratochief>
you should include what I should expect to work with the current 'version' ProcAvionics 0.0.1 ?
<rsparkyc>
well, i'm going to put some basic tech nodes in there to mimic at least some early on tech
<stratochief>
I was going to start a new RP-0 to do a quick test of my 1.2.2 install, then all of a sudden everything started working well for me. but I can do that anyway now to give your ProcAv testing and feedback
<rsparkyc>
cool. If you use it as is, you'll see that the configs produce horrible avionics units, so they'll need some initial balancing
<rsparkyc>
but the readme will talk about how do do that
<stratochief>
we'll still be able to have the existing static avionics units, right?
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i haven't touched those
<stratochief>
for example, I think the first avionics unit provides new RP-0 users a guide of what size to build their first controllable stage(s) to
<stratochief>
cool
<rsparkyc>
(though i did mess with some of their "controllable mass" code behind the scenes, so you may want to double check that
<stratochief>
I'll keep an eye on that
<rsparkyc>
also, in that branch is the code to disable uncrewed modules
<rsparkyc>
i have an open PR for that if that wants to get merged into master first
<stratochief>
yeah, feel free to merge that disable uncrewed modules code yourself
<rsparkyc>
cool, i'll do that later
<stratochief>
I'm aboot to sleep (canadian sleep)
<rsparkyc>
haha
<stratochief>
g'night all
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<rsparkyc>
gnight
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<mkalte>
hia all
<mkalte>
greetings from esrange space center, sweden :D
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<riocrokite>
welcome mkalte
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<riocrokite>
what are you guys up to nowadays
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<mkalte>
riocrokite: waiting for tests by browsing the interweb
<rsparkyc>
I'll tell you what, I learned a lot about how mod writing works by doing all that
<stratochief>
haha, now consider what will break and in what ways and require how much fixing when ProcParts changes arbitrarily :P
<rsparkyc>
haha, the dependency on ProcParts is actually pretty small, so that's good
<rsparkyc>
if they change where the volume is stored, that would be a problem, but should be easy to fix too
<stratochief>
That readme and everything looks really great. I find the balancing a dash hard to grasp just from text, but I expect that, which is why I want to fiddle with it in game to get a sense for the balance
<stratochief>
and how the tech nodes work, etc.
<rsparkyc>
yeah, there's a spreadsheet that should help with the balancing
<rsparkyc>
I'm think i'm going to make a copy for myself, and then open this one up for editing.
<waerloga>
oh, I've not looked at the procavionics, but can you make the part larger
<waerloga>
I assume you are figuring out supported avonics by a mixture of volume and tech level
<rsparkyc>
yeah, you can change the size of the part, which changes how much room inside you have to work with
<rsparkyc>
the more room, the more avionics you can put in there
<waerloga>
but I'm wondering if you can make the part larger than the max for that tech level, just so it'll fit, while recieving no benefit to avionic controls
<rsparkyc>
it gets exponentially more expensive the more avionics you put it
<waerloga>
ah so you have a "tank" that you can fill with avonics...that's neat
<rsparkyc>
yep, but it doesn't work like realfuels
<rsparkyc>
since you shouldn't be able to "dump" or "transfer" avionics
<rsparkyc>
plus, theres some weird math to figure out how heavy it should be for a give amount of avioincs
<waerloga>
the idea I had was to make a calculation on volume of the object cobined with tech level to figure out mass and controllable mass
<waerloga>
but ran into the issue of "well, what if I need a larger size because of reasons"
<rsparkyc>
yeah, the way i did it, you're trying to balance the weight of the avionics vs the cost of them
<stratochief>
waerloga: make it thin?
<rsparkyc>
so if you max out your "tank" then you're probably using more expensive parts
<rsparkyc>
if you have a lot of room, left, it's cheaper, but those parts are not as efficient
<stratochief>
waerloga: you can set it to whatever diametre you want, to make it fit whatever part you'd adding it to. you could then adjust the thinness/height to achieve the control you want, at the cost you want
<rsparkyc>
once i get more of the technodes built out, i'll actually submit a PR
<rsparkyc>
i'd also like to here NKs thoughts on it too
<rsparkyc>
s/here/hear
<stratochief>
yep, I flagged him :)
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: i'd also like to hear NKs thoughts on it too
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i saw, thx
<rsparkyc>
pretty sure i more than doubled the amount of c# code in RP-0
<stratochief>
But so far, it looks like an extremely solid start. I will need to fiddle with it in-game (reason to rest a fresh RP-0, yay!) to provide useful feedback and help with tech nodes
<rsparkyc>
cool, thx, it was fun to put together
<rsparkyc>
I should probably add an internal antenna to these parts
<rsparkyc>
that's pretty easy to do
<stratochief>
maybe. do the static avionics parts have antennas?
<rsparkyc>
yeah
<rsparkyc>
small always on omnis
<rsparkyc>
pretty much just for use during launch
<stratochief>
so, KCT doesn't do/doesn't want to do simulation now, right? so we'll be recommending KRASH for RP-0 ?
<rsparkyc>
yep
<stratochief>
is there a KRASH setting that is similarly priced to how KCT simulations were? I'm finding KRASH simulations unexpectedly expensive
<rsparkyc>
not that i know of
<stratochief>
I might try "Easy" on KRASH next then :P
<rsparkyc>
lol
<stratochief>
or we might end up having to debate about it, and create a custom RP-0 config for KRASH, like we do for RP-0 and TACLS
<rsparkyc>
ok, i think i added the right MM patch to add an omni antenna, same as the one in the early sounding rocket core
<rsparkyc>
testing, then i'll push it
<stratochief>
alright, I'll download whatever you have in ~15-30 minutes, then hopefully find time to test it later today or tomorrow
<rsparkyc>
cool, the new dll is in there, so you shouldn't need to recompile
<stratochief>
feel free to advertise it to people here, or abroad to test as well, however bold you feel :P
<rsparkyc>
haha
<rsparkyc>
i might make a followup reddit post
<rsparkyc>
but only after i make some more configs
<stratochief>
will new tech nodes for avionics create new ProcAvionics parts, or basically change the curve being applied to existing ones?
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<rsparkyc>
it just changes the curve
<rsparkyc>
i didn't want to have tons of duplicated parts when you'd never really want the old ones once you have the new one
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<rsparkyc>
ok, I updated the tech nodes for procedural avionics up to unlocking the Ranger Block I Core
<rsparkyc>
stratochief: going to open up a PR to house more discussion
<xShadowx>
rsparkyc: wheres source for proc avionics?:)
<rsparkyc>
in the RP-0 repo
<xShadowx>
lunch time was gonna be nosey and look at whatcha made
<Qboid>
[#624] title: Procedural avionics | Needs plenty of testing. Checkout the changes to the README.md, and let me know if we should move that somewhere else. Tech Nodes have been built out to the Ranger Block I Core, instructions are in the readme for creating new ones. Also, this spreadsheet helps:... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/624
<rsparkyc>
would love to have you take a look
<xShadowx>
rsparkyc: havent poked at it enough to know full benefits but - stock added part upgrades, ie unlocking a tech node changes whatever base part setting such as increased isp, just something related you can poke at :)
<rsparkyc>
hmm, that probably would have been useful :)
<rsparkyc>
might look into that later and see how easy it is to upgrade this to use that
<rsparkyc>
I based these upgrades on how procedural parts upgrades their max part sizes
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<SirKeplan>
rsparkyc: so currently if you unlock a new tech node, do all yuor avionics automatically get better?
<rsparkyc>
only new rockets
<rsparkyc>
ones in orbit are "locked in"
<SirKeplan>
right
<SirKeplan>
probably still not ideal
<SirKeplan>
would be better to be able to use "old hardware" in your rockets
<SirKeplan>
like RCS upgrades for example
<rsparkyc>
yeah, I know what you mean, could also be a future enhancement
<xShadowx>
but then is it entirely 'hardware' or some 'software'
<rsparkyc>
right, because software you could do on the fly updating
<rsparkyc>
the only thing i would think that would improve is electric charge usage
<SirKeplan>
well, "on the fly updating" is only something really done on probe avionics
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<SirKeplan>
and probably not a huge impact on power usage in real life
<rsparkyc>
i wonder what kind of avionics updates are done. Bug fixing?
<rsparkyc>
ability to plug a keyboard into it so someone stranded near it can type to home?
<xShadowx>
ha.....ha
<xShadowx>
someone seen too much of The Martian :P
<SirKeplan>
:)
<xShadowx>
though i still wanna make pliers > cut hole in suit hand > iron man mode it back to ship
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<SirKeplan>
eh, that really was the worse bit of the movie
<SirKeplan>
:P
<xShadowx>
it works though
<xShadowx>
maybe not as well as they showed
<waerloga>
I will say they did a good job on the movie porting it from the book
<SirKeplan>
yeah not the way they showed, how he did it, it would have lead to an uncontrolable spin most likely
<xShadowx>
also loved the whole bit about how hes logically a space pirate :P
<waerloga>
except not quite
<xShadowx>
the thrust came from his hand, which is about as mobile and controllable as can be, just has to place in right spot to balance CoT with CoM
<waerloga>
as a stnding member of the same orgnization, it'd not likely be viewed as space piracy
* xShadowx
flushes waerloga out an airlock
<xShadowx>
he was a space pirate!
<xShadowx>
:P
<waerloga>
hehe
<waerloga>
a small change could have made that very true
<waerloga>
instead of going to his organization's next mission site
<xShadowx>
ya know.......i just had a horribly evil thought
<xShadowx>
so i have an HTV vive
<xShadowx>
ksp has VR
<xShadowx>
1) how much would it take to get the vive controllers to move kerbal hands
<rsparkyc>
oh man...
<xShadowx>
2) then use that to move the thrust vector from air out glive
<xShadowx>
glove*
<rsparkyc>
haha
<rsparkyc>
i thought you were going to hook it up to KIS/KAS to perform EVA work
<xShadowx>
I CAN IRON MAN IT LIKE SPACE PIRATE!
<xShadowx>
lol o.o for KIS eh.....no openable control panels XD
<xShadowx>
but but......iron man space pirate!
<xShadowx>
SirKeplan: practical way to accually test how viable the control is :P
<SirKeplan>
xShadowx: sounds good :D
<xShadowx>
SirKeplan: good good :D i nominate you to code it
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<SirKeplan>
xShadowx: hah, buy me all the VR gear and then i'll give it a go :P
<xShadowx>
if you lived here id share my vive ;3
<xShadowx>
admittedly bit too early for VR, only a couple fun things thatll get boring fairly quick, other 99% is junk people are programming quick to get in the easy early money
<xShadowx>
needs time for lasting fun stuff to come ;3
<HypergolicSkunk>
xShadowx: sorry to state the obvious, but..... porn
<HypergolicSkunk>
my mind was never as blown as when I tried some proper VR porn.
* xShadowx
moves HypergolicSkunk over to #kspmodders
<HypergolicSkunk>
what :D
<xShadowx>
not to wander down that road, but the only things that can be properly VR is software / what would be considered games, anything prefilmed cannot be VR due to its merely a recording from a fixed position, 360 films are not VR either, sure you can rotate your head but the environment is stil 2d
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<HypergolicSkunk>
but.. each eye only gives 2D 'footage', and the brain combines both two a 3D picture. doesn't that mean that two cameras with a typical human eye-to-eye-distance will provide the same footage and the brain does the rest?
<HypergolicSkunk>
*to
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<xShadowx>
HypergolicSkunk: thats just 3d footage, not VR
<xShadowx>
VR is having an area you exist in, move in, optionally interact with
<xShadowx>
3d / 360 video is only covering the 1st bit
<xShadowx>
software is required to reach the ability to move around
<xShadowx>
some movies get filmed by multiple camera angles, as you can see on some DVDs you rent, allowing you to be at a 2nd but still fixed point
<xShadowx>
still not VT though :|
<xShadowx>
VR*
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<HypergolicSkunk>
xShadowx: ah ok, I misunderstood :)
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