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<SirKeplan> waerloga: that would be a slight understatement.........
<xShadowx> ale260382: thats editing a part the name matches, 2 diff parts
<xShadowx> 2nd not working suggests incorrect name
<ale260382> names are correct
<xShadowx> not even Mk2?
<xShadowx> possible part was deleted too
<xShadowx> or renamed
<ale260382> i just wrote those, the part names are correct
<ale260382> several parts in 8 different files
<ale260382> 2 of these files works, 6 don't
<ale260382> mmmm i think i solved
<xShadowx> any curly brackets missin and config didnt even load? straw grasping stage ;p
<ale260382> nope i think the files were saved with a wrong extension
<ale260382> really stupid
<xShadowx> thatd do it too
<Probus> Man, its amazing how many mods you can throw at KSP and it not puke. I'm up to 85 and I know that's just a fraction of what some people have.
* xShadowx whistles innocently and hides his 721 mod install
<Probus> NO WAY!
<waerloga> SirKeplan: well I ment specificly for Gibraltar
<waerloga> locally they voted overwhelmingly to remain
<Probus> xShadowx, there is not even that many mods out there, is there?
<xShadowx> Probus: roughly 1500 just in ckan, plenty dont make it to ckan and are just forums, some dont even goto forums
<xShadowx> id wager 2,000 ish total
<xShadowx> and no i dont count my little pony as a valid mod
<xShadowx> that needs to burn
<waerloga> heh
<Probus> Yes. I agree :)
<Starwaster> Does anyone know how a PhysicsGlobal.ConductionFactor of 5 was arrived at for RO? (should really be directed at NathanKell|AWAY but he's.... away)
<Probus> Just curious, what is your load time xShadowx? Is it like starting up an old main frame?
<xShadowx> 3min, instant if crashes
<Probus> SSD?
<xShadowx> ramdisk, but its like 5-10% faster than hdd
<ale260382> quantum computer ?
<Probus> Ramdisk... Interesting...
<xShadowx> custom pruning
<xShadowx> delete kspedia
<xShadowx> :)
<ale260382> cpu? ram ?
<ale260382> i may have to change my pc soon
<xShadowx> i7-6950x 128gb
<Probus> 128!!!
<xShadowx> you asked :P
<ale260382> i have just 8 now :(
<xShadowx> but seriously thats almost no gain on ksp load times
<xShadowx> custom pruning of files in install gets far more gains
<riocrokite> lol what frequencey do you run on cpu?
<xShadowx> 4.3ghz, 4.5 turbo
<Probus> That's a beast!
<xShadowx> the 20 cores in task manager is pretty :P
<xShadowx> waste on ksp though, single thread is better :(
<xShadowx> could hit 5ghz on a dual core
<riocrokite> nice, you upgraded recently, haven't you?
<xShadowx> 2 months ago
<xShadowx> first time in 5 yr XD
<Probus> I have a 4790K for the single thread speed.
<riocrokite> probably better than 6950x :P
<Probus> Doubt it. 128GB. That's something. I have 32GB and I sometimes get out of memory warnings with KSP.
<Probus> Usually after its been running non-stop for a couple of days.
<riocrokite> :)
<riocrokite> suddenly feeling poor with my wait for ryzen :P
<riocrokite> on a good note, got a good deal on 2tb ssd so yah
<Probus> That's a biggy.
<xShadowx> >500gb on ssd seems a waste
<xShadowx> ssd only needed for stuff loaded often, like OS and apps used alot
<Probus> KSP...
<xShadowx> rest of my stuff is in a 8TB NAS
<riocrokite> it's good for DAW with high quality samples
<Starwaster> sigh
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<stratochief|away> blowfish: at various times in the past, conudctionFactor appears to have been 10, or 0.005 briefly for a test? no clear view of how it was arrived at
<Qboid> [1bc93] title: Revert "Potential shielded-conduction fix."... by NathanKell | Additions: 4 | Deletions: 4 | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/1bc93a89f3f77fd70c05f156fc8359dfddd2f3db
<Qboid> [df850] title: Update physics for 1.0.4. by NathanKell | Additions: 41 | Deletions: 13 | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/commit/df8506e43490a522a431481e0f9958cff00a48d8
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<stratochief> blowfish: what impact is it having that you're curious?
<blowfish> no idea about that stuff honestly
<blowfish> maybe you should ask the committer ;)
<stratochief> blowfish: oh, sorry. wrong ping.
<stratochief> Starwaster: ^^
<stratochief> TIL, my memory crosses the wires of BF and SW for no good reason. perhaps because you both are relatively quite, have created things, and I recall seeing you around before I showed up here?
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<stratochief> 1 RP-0 dollar is 1000 1965 USD, right?
<xShadowx> thats what i remember bein told
<SirKeplan> stratochief: yeah
<stratochief> thanks. just refreshing my memory. checking the logic behind the really expensive NERVA in RP-0. I found 1985 sources estimating a 1.3 billion (in 1965 dollars) program to create flight ready NERVAs, and a different one in 2012 estimating under 100 million 2012 dollars to do substantial testing
<stratochief> but nothing about development cost there. and even if I find good sourcing for development cost, it is hard to estimate individual engine price from there. some talk of re-using it as a tug, others as one-off stages, like a Saturn V-N
<stratochief> the 1950s and 1960s was very likely a cheaper time for testing nuclear rockets, since they just vented radioactive hydrogen into the desert :P
<soundnfury> "and we didn't poison a single rattlesnake!" as Ignition puts it
<soundnfury> (okay so that was mercury rather than radioactive hydrogen, but same principle)
<stratochief> lol. well, rattlesnakes are fairly resilliant, to all forms of potential death
<SirKeplan> i'm under the impression the hydrogen exhaust is not at all radioactive
<stratochief> SirKeplan: well, compared to the core itself, but it certainly picks up -some- activation
<stratochief> and that is 'if everything goes according to Hoyle" as my old professor used to say. the whole point of a development program is to also test when things do not go super well
* stratochief does not see us testing a nuclear rocket "to failure" today
<SirKeplan> so some of the exhaust would be tritium?
<stratochief> SirKeplan: yeah, and deuterium
<SirKeplan> boom
<SirKeplan> busting nuclear reactors is fun
<stratochief> I think that may have been a non-radioactive hydrogen fire, but hard to say. lots of old info is secretive or simply hard to find
<stratochief> yeah, in 1962 they estimated they'd have working engines for a total of a billion invested. that still doesn't help me estimate a good price per engine. I really wish we could integrate learning cost curves into RP-0, where things get cheaper the more you use them :P
<SirKeplan> yep, some prices are all over the place
<SirKeplan> becuase there is no curve implemented
<stratochief> Titan II, III, and IV stuff seems relatively cheap, because the costs we have come as a result of the actual historical construction rates and learning curves of those components
<stratochief> if NASA had ordered a second batch of Saturn V's, say, the would have been a lot cheaper than the first batch simply due to experience gained and fabrication systems already paid for
<SirKeplan> definitely
<SirKeplan> and some simplification fo some systems
<stratochief> unrelated to RP-0, that is what worries me about SLS. it seems to be a reasonable rocket, but it will be murderously expensive and laughed at forever if they don't build and fly a dozen or more
* stratochief adds more ideas to the "KSP 2: Nuclear-Electric Bugaloo" scrapbook dream folder
<SirKeplan> how is SLS being ordered? afaik NASA ordered ~15 saturn Vs in one block that is not gonna happen for SLS
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<stratochief> no, that isn't happening for SLS. we'll only learn about the cost and order when they cancel it, the way things are going
<Starwaster> blowfish, decisions like that usually have their roots in IRC in conversations I haven't been privy too which is why I made it a general query here
<stratochief> Starwaster: was that convection number messing something up for you, or were you asking out of curiousity?
<Starwaster> conduction
<stratochief> *conduction indeed
<Starwaster> trying to make sense of part to part conduction which is worse than I thought it was
<Starwaster> it's part of the reason why boiloff rates is hard to get right
<stratochief> gotcha. I agree with you on all counts :)
<Starwaster> more of the incoming flux is part to part conduction than I realized
<Starwaster> though... it's not as BAD as some people think it is either.
<stratochief> :P
<blowfish> stratochief: deuterium is stable though, isn't it?
<stratochief> well, in most cases. it really kills me on the surface of Mars though. everything thermal kills me on Mars
<SirKeplan> yeah it's tritium that is the radioactive one
<SirKeplan> deuterium is fine
<Starwaster> Well, one thing I've realized is that instead of concentrating on skin-internal conduction I need to focus on the part heatCOnductivity which affects EVERYTHING. Affects skin-internal, skin-skin, part-part
<SirKeplan> also tritium is kida safe, as long as you don't eat it or breathe it :P
<stratochief> yeah, deuterium isn't radiaoactive, it is a stable element. but it behaves differently in the body than hydrogen, soooo, not great for you either
<blowfish> yeah, beta decay isn't the end of the world
<Starwaster> beta can be blocked with paper
<SirKeplan> yeah
<SirKeplan> and dead skin cells
<Starwaster> unless you DID swallow it or breathe it...
<Starwaster> unless you DID swallow it or breathe it...
<Starwaster> still there's worse things to swallor or breathe
<Starwaster> polonium....
<SirKeplan> yummy
<stratochief> anti-putin sentiment has a strange way of turning into polonium in the body, comrade
<Starwaster> oh, so the thing about part-part conduction that I've realized is that it doesnt matter how big the part is, they practically all conduct at the same rate. (very large parts should equate to thicker parts which should conduct slower)
<stratochief> yeah, my small ISRU craft composed of lots of small parts suffer from the short end of that. and the legs might be conducting heat strongly up from the surface, I'm not sure
<Starwaster> no
<Starwaster> the only sources of incoming heat are convection and radiation
<Starwaster> and the only vessel situation that affects taht is being splashed down which changes the rate of convection
<Starwaster> if it's ISRU you're probably getting more heat from the converter?
<stratochief> Starwaster: not the stock ISRU system, nothing to do with the stock ISRU system. that 'game play mechanic' is nothing to start from for RSS/RO
<stratochief> my conversion hardware should probably be producing some waste heat for realism, but that would be a later step after I can get it working at all
<Starwaster> what module is it using if not stock?
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<stratochief> i might try lowering that conduction value from 5.0 to 1.0, next time I'm foolish enough to try methalox ISRU again :P
<Starwaster> here: this should work somewhat better than the one in the latest official release: https://www.dropbox.com/s/vfui76exsm2z79t/HeatPump.dll?dl=1
<stratochief> Starwaster: RealISRU, TACLS converter modules
<stratochief> Starwaster: thanks! what's the difference?
<Starwaster> less throttling
<Starwaster> refrigerators dont work like that. air conditioners dont work like that
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<Starwaster> so why am I scaling performance based on temperature? It should cut in at one temp and cut out at another
<stratochief> how does/did the throttling work?
<stratochief> ahh, gotcha
<Starwaster> times the temp delta
<Starwaster> which isnt THAT bad until it drops below 1
<Starwaster> which really means that it gets harder to meet its goal as it gets closer to its goal
<Starwaster> the other thing that I'm going to change but havent yet is that it will cost less power at higher temps
<Starwaster> 114 watts is cryogenic temps
<Starwaster> because it's harder to pump heat out of something that's already closer to 20K
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<Starwaster> might do it on a float curve
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<stratochief> yeah. I was also thinking about how radiators would be different on Mars vs for the ISS, other than that they would use different working fluids & different temperature ranges
<stratochief> a Mars heat rejection system would have use of convection with the cold air, and also potentially could reject heat to the ground
<Starwaster> if you feel like editing some configs, try adding heatConductivity = 0.000001 to the heat pump configs. And comment out skinInternalConductionMult = 0.001
<Starwaster> the idea there is that since this is aimed at ZBO that when you install the heat pump you're also adding on some more insulation
<stratochief> will do! I've definitely edited the snot out of radiator and heat pump configs, just trying to get something that resulted in very low/zero boil-off, to have a starting point
<Starwaster> that value for heatConductivity is actually probably a little OP and might get changed before release
<Starwaster> in fact for ConductionFactor = 5 it is definitely OP but feelf ree to experiment
<stratochief> for Mars ISRU methane and oxygen production systems, I would expect them to capture the gaseous boiloff products, for re-refrigeration and liquifaction, but I'm not sure how that could be managed
<Starwaster> re-liquefaction would be horridly expensive as far as power goes
<Starwaster> maybe not so much if we're just talking about capturing boiloffproduct
<Starwaster> btw you do know that RF supports boiloff product now, right?
<stratochief> well, the whole ISRU system itself produces gaseous methane and oxygen, then has to cool and liquidfy them anyway, so that expense is a necessary one
<Starwaster> only service modules are configured to support it but it's easy enough to do
<stratochief> Starwaster: NO! I didn't know, cool! Is it automatic, like if I add an Oxygen tank to an RF tank with LOX, I'll see that?
<Starwaster> just need to add one line to the tank config
<stratochief> ahh, gotcha. very good to know!
<Starwaster> and make sure that there is sufficient tankage to support the captured gas
<Starwaster> in fact you can totally do realistic Apollo SM fuel cells/life support with LOX/LH2 tanks as long as there is tankage to catch the gas
<stratochief> mmm, good point. currently, I just use a TACLS module to purposely boill off LOX for breathing gas. I'll have to try that, for LS and for ISRU :)
<Starwaster> the reason I only set up service modules to support it is because ullage control actually depends on boiloff a little
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<Starwaster> (the boiled off gas is propulsively vented
<stratochief> yeah, good point. perhaps have ullage kick in, if there is no gaseous tank to capture boiloff product, or if that is full?
<Starwaster> propulsivelly?
<stratochief> yeah, propulsively
<Starwaster> well it's that any gas that got retained doesnt count towards boiloff mass
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<Starwaster> all that gets accounted for
<stratochief> mkay
<Starwaster> oh yes, it's automatic
<Starwaster> whenever it does boiloff it looks to see if the tank defined boiloff product (look at the service module to see how)
<Starwaster> and if there is then it tries to do a reverse resource request which then gets sent to any empty tanks
<Starwaster> it SHOULD Only look at the current stage... but I dont remember if I set it up that way
<stratochief> I haven't seen gaseous oxygen randomly showing up on my apollo capsules, so I think it is probably sticking to the stage
<Starwaster> I used STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
<Starwaster> I had to go look that up because I couldnt remember if I had
<Starwaster> I was in automatic mode and my subconscious knows better than I do
<xShadowx> with liquid o2, say 1 liter, how much volume will it be after boiloff, at say 15 psi?
<xShadowx> so 1 atmo ;3
<stratochief> Starwaster: trust your instincts :)
<stratochief> xShadowx: lots!
<xShadowx> im basicly wondering if its practical to bring inflatable tanks, so instead of boiloff being vented, since no drag in space, could vent it into said tanks and keep it
<xShadowx> same for LH
<stratochief> xShadowx: 0.001141 T per L for LOX, 0.00000141 T per L for gaseous L
<xShadowx> O.o
<stratochief> 809:1 ratio?
<xShadowx> thatd need some big tanks :P
<stratochief> liquid gasses are substantially more dense than uncompressed gaseous ones, yep :)
<stratochief> in other news, they are cold!
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<Starwaster> I love finding new NASA docs that I don't already have downloaded
<Starwaster> oops unless I already DO have it downloaded
<stratosleep> Starwaster: if you find the NASA document where they discuss using hydrogen slush as propellant/storage, method, send that my way :)
<stratosleep> I had that once, before I was into Realism Overhaul, but I lost it
<Starwaster> didnt realize there aws a specific document
<Starwaster> is there something you need beyond the temperature and storage density?
<stratosleep> yeah, I'm curious about everything from that paper. like, what insulation upgrades had they proposed, energy requirements and challenges of producing and storing the slush
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<Starwaster> I'll try to find it
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<stratosleep> The ejection of fuel elements from the reactor core which occurred during KIWI BIB and KIWI B4A tests caused the government to reassess the nuclear rocket program, including the RIFT project, subse@ently leading to the cancellation of RIFT in December 1963.
<stratosleep> I would hope so. ejected fuel elemements generally make me reassess my priorities
<soundnfury> stratosleep: you've read about NAIL SPIKE, I trust? ;)
<stratosleep> probably, don't recall it offhand
<soundnfury> (begins "This is true, I swear.")
<soundnfury> it's utterly hilarious
<soundnfury> my theory is that charlie stross read Ignition, then got very drunk
<UmbralRaptor> Probably.
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<blowfish> fuel can't really be burnt in the engine once it boils off unless you re-condense it
<blowfish> hence integrated vehicle fluids. Boiloff becomes a feature because you can use it in place of other things
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<zilti> Hmm, what heading do I need to fly from Kennedy's to get the 28 degree inclination that's the "easiest" from there? I assumed heading 62 degrees, but apparently that's wrong.
<waerloga> for going to the moon? nearly due east
<zilti> Just earth orbit, for now
<waerloga> oh, then yeah, just due east if you are going for orbit
<waerloga> and it does not matter the launch point in that case
<waerloga> KSC is 'easiest' for going to the moon since it's close to the inclination of the moon (relative to the earth's equator)
<zilti> I don't even have any other launch pads available yet anyway ^^
<zilti> So, heading straight east always gives the inclination closest to equator possible at the launchpad? Gotta look up some physics behind that stuff on weekend
<waerloga> yeah, due east will put you on an inclined orbit the same as your launch site's latitude
<zilti> Thanks :)
<zilti> Blergh... My payload is "rotating" again under the fairings...
<zilti> Apparently, stacking four satellites on top of each other and "securing" them with struts is not a good idea
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: so, fyi, at the moment if a collision results in an explosion of a part this will lead to a crash :D
<egg|zzz|egg> (not that this would ever happen in KSP right)
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: yeah, what a weird corner case. How would you even get the idea to test such a thing.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: also, I'll be working on wrapping everything in try/catch/Log.Fatal blocks because silent exceptions break our invariants and then we get the weirdest bugs >_>
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<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: ok, fixed that one
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: but now, I can reliably segfault the game when EVAing
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: segfault *the game*, not principia
<egg|zzz|egg> Unity decides to dereference a null when I EVA >_>
<zilti> Yay, "NullPointerException"?
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Timewarping seems to be a bit problematic, too?
<egg|zzz|egg> timewarping should work
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: did you dock/undock?
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: when do you run into issues with timewarping
<zilti> nope. Just cruisin' my Fregat with the four satellites
<egg|zzz|egg> ok, not separating the sats?
<zilti> I hope the game quicksaved ^^ Nope, not separating.
<egg|zzz|egg> has the vessel changed name since launch?
<zilti> No
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: is the accelerometer measuring an incorrect acceleration?
<zilti> I was in map view, so I didn't see.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: wait, what happened? did it crash?
<zilti> I just heard an explosion sound, and then the game crashed
<egg|zzz|egg> aaah
<egg|zzz|egg> that's just an explosion, which causes crashes
<egg|zzz|egg> see above ^
<zilti> Yeah, but the explosion had no cause in the first place ^^
<egg|zzz|egg> well, I'll blame it on KSP
<egg|zzz|egg> I don't explode things myself
<zilti> ^^
<egg|zzz|egg> were you timewarping in physics warp, or regular warp
<zilti> Regular warp, at about 1500 km altitude
<egg|zzz|egg> well dunno
<egg|zzz|egg> in regular warp we don't do much
<egg|zzz|egg> especially not breaking ships :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> maybe something overheated?
<zilti> Hmm.
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: also, though I doubt that's because of Principia, I noticed that vessels with omni-antennas don't connect with each other, only with ground stations: http://imgur.com/a/ITLs0
<egg|zzz|egg> that has nothing to do with me, so I don't care :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: have you had any FATAL logs?
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: From Unity? Nope, it crashes without doing those, right to the Windows "A problem ocurred" window, usually
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: ...
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: you know about the FAQ, right?
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: I mean glog FATAL logs
<zilti> Ah, those. Yes, I do have.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: right, so talk about those, because that's the most useful part of a crash >_>
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: what sort of check failures do they talk about?
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: The one from today reads on the last line: "Check failed: emplaced part_id: 1308047724"
<egg|zzz|egg> hm
<zilti> Huh wtf, something "blew up" just again, though not into flames, just a small "boom" and stuff flying away. No crash though, and everything's still working, so I assume "nothing" happened...
<waerloga> F3...anything show up?
<zilti> waerloga: Nope, only that the battery bank is leaking ^^
<SirKeplan> hah, my tiny RF fix for SSTU finally got merged.
<stratosleep> KSP Jesus dropping off in the night, leaving little presents :)
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<zilti> Though having a spinning vessel seems to mess with the orbit. Over the last 10 minutes, I lost 10km of my apoapsis altitude and gained some hundred meters of periapsis altitude.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: uh, that's not the spinning doing that
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: in fact, that's the nice thing with Cardano: unless you fire thrusters, nothing modifies your orbit
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: now, by "your orbit" I mean the free-falling trajectory
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: not e.g. MJ's predictions
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Well, I'm not firing any RCS or whatever. I just have my vessel spinning so the fuel stays stable.
<egg|zzz|egg> that's affected by the fact that MJ doesn't know about oblateness
<egg|zzz|egg> so only trust the prediction from map view
<egg|zzz|egg> that should stay stable
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<egg|zzz|egg> other things will think that it's a Keplerian orbit and be weirded out
<zilti> In map view it changes, too
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: you're looking at the Principia fuchsia prediction?
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Just the normal mapview apoapsis
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: ... wait, are you in space?
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: are you using the patched conics? you shouldn't
<egg|zzz|egg> we have our own predictions for that
<zilti> yes, in orbit. Apoapsis 3509.5km, Periapsis 682851m
<zilti> Principia standard settings, the way it came.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: ok, are you seeing the fuchsia line?
<zilti> "Display patched conics" is not selected
<zilti> Well, just the normal orbits, looks like stock
<egg|zzz|egg> ...
<egg|zzz|egg> well something is very broken then
<egg|zzz|egg> you shouldn't see the normal orbit of your vessel, you should see principia's
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: any exceptions in the log?
<egg|zzz|egg> (the normal debug log)
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: glog or ksp?
<egg|zzz|egg> the KSP logs
<egg|zzz|egg> the debug console
<zilti> Well, it just blew up again
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: and for reference, if you don't see your predicted orbit in this colour, then principia isn't working http://i.imgur.com/AqC3RFk.png
* zilti kills the starting KSP and scratches his forehead
<zilti> So, the navball is working like Principia, but the orbits aren't...
<egg|zzz|egg> that's not good
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: do you have the prediction at all?
<egg|zzz|egg> i.e. if you increase the number of steps of the prediction, do you see the fuchsia line?
<zilti> I'll have to try. I'm rebuilding Principia now, just pulled.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: well wait a second, I'm making a pull request :D
<zilti> ok :P
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: principia#1281 should solve some things
<Qboid> [#1281] title: Eggsceptions | This fixes the bug with collisions with non-parts (which raised a nullreference exception), as well as the bug with collisions leading to explosions (3 should be 33).... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1281
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<egg|zzz|egg> aha!
<egg|zzz|egg> so it IS a bug in Unity, but we're not helping Unity: q correction for kerbalEVA (Nedbur Kerman): [NaN, NaN, NaN]
<egg|zzz|egg> riocrokite: see, we're corrupting KSP with our evil bread :D
<egg|zzz|egg> welp there's our problem insert or keep kerbalEVA (Debtine Kerman): 0 tonnes
<egg|zzz|egg> last time it was Nedbur, but I don't think that makes much of a difference
<egg|zzz|egg> to the nearest tonne, how much does a Kerbal weigh?
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<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn
<egg|zzz|egg> Qboid?
<egg|zzz|egg> !channel -serious:false
<egg|zzz|egg> !wpn
* Qboid gives egg|zzz|egg a down piston
<egg|zzz|egg> why does Qboid keep resetting that flag
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<egg|zzz|egg> ok, I have a solution for the EVA thing
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: by the way, make sure that you install the latest (today's) MFI
<egg|zzz|egg> it fixes an incompatibility with Principia
<egg|zzz|egg> (though I don't think that's where your trajectory issue lives, I have no idea there)
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: no exceptions in the log?
<zilti> MFI?
<zilti> I just am testing right now.
<egg|zzz|egg> ModularFlightIntegrator
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:MFI ModularFlightIntegrator
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<egg|zzz|egg> FAR?
<egg|zzz|egg> !acr -add:FAR Ferram Aerospace Research
<Qboid> egg|zzz|egg: I added the explanation for this acronym.
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Ah, I see. I have the MFI from CKAN
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: which version?
<zilti> There are exceptions in the log, but I have no idea if they're from Principia.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: put the output_log in a gist or something
<zilti> MFI 1.2.4
<egg|zzz|egg> don't just say "there are exceptions", that's not useful
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: ok, that's todays MFI
<egg|zzz|egg> that's good
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<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Yes... What's the most helpful, sterr.log I guess?
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: no, output_log.txt
<egg|zzz|egg> from ksp data
<egg|zzz|egg> stderr is just our thing, redirecting stderr
<egg|zzz|egg> it's mostly useless
<egg|zzz|egg> uuuuh is that the whole thing?
<egg|zzz|egg> because that's *very short* >_>
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: I was just about to say. This doesn't look very helpful
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: ok, let's try the KSP.log
<zilti> I just re-started the game, you'll have to wait a couple minutes... I found another output_log.txt, but it had last modification date of five days ago
<egg|zzz|egg> stop restarting the game all the time that clears the logs
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<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: so there's exception spam from CityLights and from Principia
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: try removing whatever CityLights is?
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: It's part of EVE. Ok, will try without...
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: nah, it's probably not that tbh
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: are you playing career?
<zilti> yes, career.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: can you try to see if it does that in sandbox?
<zilti> sure
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: ok I think I know what's happening; you haven't unlocked patched conics yet, and so when I try to disable the stock patched conics I try to disable something that's null
<zilti> Hmm, yes, I couldn't afford to upgrade the tracking station yet in this save
<egg|zzz|egg> yeah, we should do a nullcheck somewhere
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: don't upgrade your tracking station yet then :-p
<egg|zzz|egg> that way we can test the bug :D
<zilti> Alright :P
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<Thomas> <egg|zzz|egg> [15:51:30] why does Qboid keep resetting that flag
<Thomas> Because when Qboid joined, I was asked to keep it serious
<Thomas> !channel -serious:true
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<egg|zzz|egg> Thomas: nobody seems to have had issues with my !wpning though :-p
<zilti> Blergh, changing 27 degrees of inclination with a Fregat is like watching Homer solving a maths equation...
<waerloga> look and see if highly elipitcal orbit to start with would save you dV
<waerloga> and subsequently active control time
<zilti> My problem is that the lowest I can start is 28, and the mission is to deploy four satellites to an orbit below 1 degree.
<zilti> waerloga: Ah, so making it highly elliptical, change inclination at the outer end
<waerloga> yup, plane change uses less dV at Ap
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<zilti> well, not gonna happen on this mission... 3500 kilometers is what I'm at now
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: so, is it working in sandbox?
<egg|zzz|egg> I did replicate the thing in career
<egg|zzz|egg> also my first time playing career :-p
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: ...I ...uh ...was cruisin around in my lame satellite carrier ^^
<zilti> Hold on a sec
<stratochief> zilti: inclination changes while in orbit, and short of something like a super-synchronous transfer suck, and are wasteful
<stratochief> do like the pro's do, go to a GTO orbit, then do the inclination change 'far out, man'
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<rsparkyc> hopefully ferram4 doesn't get mad: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/19321-113-ferram-aerospace-research-v01572-lanchester-7116/&do=findComment&comment=2994974
<rsparkyc> (and hopefully we can get an official release soon)
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: and, yeah, it works in sandbox mode :)
<rsparkyc> speaking of which…my spreadsheet was out of date
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<rsparkyc> wow, less than 5 minutes later, and he arives
<rsparkyc> o/ ferram4
<zilti> Hmm, KSP's laggyness seems to be more dependant on the specific parts than how many parts I have in my vessel :\
<riocrokite> yup
<zilti> Just the vostok capsule alone more than halves my framerate
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<regex> GUISE GUISE GUISE
<regex> This was supposed to ship Oct 2015. I just got it.
<zilti> O_O
<riocrokite> lol
<riocrokite> nice
<regex> All stretch goals crammed into an 11.5 lb. package.
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<xShadowx> zilti: that can be correct, even complex models do not seem to slow down the game /much/, but a high number of partmodules, esp badly coded ones, could do it
<zilti> xShadowx: although weirdly enough, it seems to be on the graphics card, because no CPU core is maxed out
<xShadowx> integrated gpu?;p
<zilti> (And I doubt it's actually maxing out my graphics card; it runs even new games on ultra settings)
<zilti> Radeon RX 480
<xShadowx> i never seen ksp max out a gpu......lol
<xShadowx> winblows?
<xShadowx> i have seen a few in kspo using linux and mentioning framerate issues
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<zilti> It seems to make pretty much no difference if I run it on Windows or Linux
<zilti> The new AMD Linux drivers seem to be quite great
<xShadowx> lower settings, everything to minimum, see if fixes, start from tjhere, some settings are more gpu demanding
<zilti> Does crying in a corner work, too?
<xShadowx> only if you believe in angry bearded men in the sky
<xShadowx> or santa, but santa is real
<zilti> Well, there *are* bearded men in the sky :P
<zilti> They're probably not angry, tho...
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<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: I think I gotta take a good look at my install... Principia makes my map view lag ^^
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: is journalling on?
<egg|zzz|egg> if journalling is on it will kill perf., especially in map view
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: I turned it off and Principia said it's off, but I guess it'll need a game restart then?
<egg|zzz|egg> nah, when it's off it goes off instantly
<egg|zzz|egg> it's to turn it on that you need a scene change
<github> [RealismOverhaul] PhineasFreak opened pull request #1583: SXT NERVA plume MM modifiers fixes (master...RO-SXT-NERVA-Plume-Fixes) https://git.io/vSJU4
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: shorten your history if it's still too slow
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: I get about 7 fps :P
<egg|zzz|egg> <egg|zzz|egg> zilti: shorten your history if it's still too slow
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: also reduce the number of prediction steps
<zilti> Yeah, that helps a bit. I'm not sure if I should be a bit mad at AMD for this...
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: do you have an L3 cache?
<egg|zzz|egg> if you don't you're dead :-p
<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: Yes, I do. 16 MByte.
<egg|zzz|egg> zilti: that's probably more than I have
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<zilti> egg|zzz|egg: It's the Ryzen 1800X :P
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<egg> zilti: how is it going?
<zilti> egg: It's working as intended now :-) Except the performance, though that's probably another mod interfering with stuff. Reducing prediction and history helps.
<egg> ok
<egg> not sure about perf, I'll recheck how it goes without journalling
<egg> but I guess on top of RO it can get slow :-p
<zilti> egg: My Fregat-powered thing to deploy four satellites managed to deploy the first of the four satellites just below 1 Degree inclination, and is now out of fuel, so I can't get to the other points to place the others :/
<egg> hah
<zilti> I have 22k of funds left to somehow turn that situation around...
<xShadowx> do other contracts to build up $
<xShadowx> come back to sats later
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<waerloga> yup, sounding rockets are cheap and can get you a few k in profits easy
<zilti> xShadowx: well, all three contract slots are full :P I haven't seen a sounding rocket contract since a couple contracts back...
<waerloga> oh, 1.2.2 right?
<waerloga> hrm, well they used to keep the simple distance contracts always up...
<zilti> There's no way to refuel another vessel without either kerbals or it having stuff like e.g. a docking port, right?
* zilti gets out the struts and builds a pushing thing on top of his new 22k "rescue vehicle"
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<Rokker> stratochief: well this is interesting
<Rokker> stratochief: san diego state just test fired an LR101
<xShadowx> zilti: or KAS to attach a fuel line
<xShadowx> not sure if claw will link fuel xfer
<zilti> xShadowx: well, not unlocked yet :P
<xShadowx> but then if you just alt click 2 tanks, i think it still ignores fuel paths and just xfer, if same vessel
<xShadowx> dont think fixed
<Rokker> where the hell do you get an LR101 these days
<xShadowx> eva fuel xfer mod and some wearable tank in KAS that looks like a gas can maybe ;p
<xShadowx> KIS*
<stratochief> Rokker: so, SF can into space too?
<stratochief> sorry, SD
<Rokker> stratochief: i guess
<Rokker> stratochief: they were using it to test out a thrust vectoring system they designed
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<probus__> Is the Gemini lander engine a little OP?
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<github> [RealismOverhaul] stratochief66 pushed 2 new commits to master: https://git.io/vSJP3
<github> RealismOverhaul/master 5a6adf5 PhineasFreak: Fix wrong MM modifiers
<github> RealismOverhaul/master d1c389d stratochief66: Merge pull request #1583 from PhineasFreak/RO-SXT-NERVA-Plume-Fixes...