blowfish has joined #RO
Probus-Laptop has joined #RO
Probus-Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 206 seconds]
Probus-Laptop has joined #RO
Probus-Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
Snoozee is now known as Majiir
rsparkyc has joined #RO
Wetmelon has joined #RO
Probus-Laptop has joined #RO
UmbralRaptor is now known as BudgetRaptor
Probus-Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 201 seconds]
rsparkyc has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
rsparkyc has joined #RO
Majiir is now known as Snoozee
Probus-Laptop has joined #RO
rsparkyc has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
Probus-Laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 201 seconds]
rsparkyc has joined #RO
DeadManWalking has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
BudgetRaptor is now known as UmbralRaptor
VanDisaster has quit [Ping timeout: 190 seconds]
rsparkyc has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
VanDisaster has joined #RO
B787_300 is now known as B787_Bed
Rokker is now known as RokkerSleep
Wetmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 206 seconds]
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]
RokkerSleep is now known as RokkerSleepSleep
Wetmelon has joined #RO
Wetmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 206 seconds]
ferram4 has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
BasharMilesTeg has quit [Read error: -0x1: UNKNOWN ERROR CODE (0001)]
VanDisaster has quit [Ping timeout: 206 seconds]
egg|zzz|egg is now known as egg|coffee|egg
egg|coffee|egg is now known as egg
VanDisaster has joined #RO
<zilti> Nice!
<zilti> Huh, were there changes from 1.2.1 to 1.2.2 that break some mods?
riocrokite has joined #RO
<egg> ?
<Starwaster> maybe but most things that worked in 1.2.1 that I've tried work in 1.2.2
<Starwaster> actually probably all of them. Not aware ofa ny specific thing that changed... that would break anything
<Starwaster> but YMMV
Starwaster has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<zilti> It was about ProceduralParts. Eh, I recompiled it now, I'll see if it works now.
<zilti> ...great, now my VAB search function is broken.
<zilti> !wpn
* Qboid gives zilti a fast decomposition
* zilti uses "fast decomposition" against his computer. It is not very effective.
<egg> zilti: your computer decomposes quickly
<zilti> egg: I already "decomposed" it twice today anyway to reset the CMOS. Overclocking is an annoying thing ^^
<waerloga> tis why I don't overclock :P
<zilti> waerloga: Well, I got it stable now. Though only on 4GHz. I hoped for 4.1, but it seems impossible.
<waerloga> from?
<zilti> Ryzen 1800X. Base clock is 3.6, all-core turbo 3.8 and single-core turbo 4.1.
<zilti> Though apparently they themselves already went quite to the limit with what they released.
<waerloga> ah
<waerloga> been awhile since I've dealt with AMD stuff
<egg> !wpn waerloga
* Qboid gives waerloga a francium Principia
<waerloga> last one (and previous computer) was a Phenom II 4x 955 BE
<riocrokite> don't scare me, i'm still waiting for my 1700 zilti ;)
<waerloga> that computer sounded like the back end of a jet engine
<zilti> riocrokite: you'll be able to overclock to pretty much the same values anyway ;) Since it's just binning, and apparently they're all fairly hi-quality
<riocrokite> the biggest question is whether I can fit air cooler inside the case lol
<riocrokite> and onto mobo lol
<zilti> Mine is on 1.4 volt now (could probably go lower) and 50 degrees while under some medium load and a slow-spinning CPU cooler
<riocrokite> nice
<zilti> I couldn't get 4.1GHz stable even with 1.48 volt, and I don't dare go higher, so apparently that's not possible with my chip
<riocrokite> yah
Graf has joined #RO
<Graf> Helloooo, everyone!
RokkerSleepSleep is now known as RokkerSleep
<Graf> I wonder if that's step one in Rokker waking up - maybe he goes from super asleep to just kinda asleep, and eventually he properly wakes up.
<RokkerSleep> yes
<Graf> Or maybe he's fully awake, but just pretending to be asleep! This changes everything! :P
<RokkerSleep> Graf: well I'm trying to sleep but someone wants to ping me about my sleeping habits
<Graf> I didn't ping you! I still haven't used your full name :P
<Graf> I was gonna ask people what their favorite version of RO was - like, the classic .23 , or the golden age of stability known as .24, or maybe something more modern? I don't mean "which has the best features" I just want to know when people thought there was the best synergy. I definitely think my favorite time was .24, but that could be nostalgia goggles.
<RokkerSleep> ping words, brah
<stratochief|away> zilti: have you looked at the Golden Spreadsheet? I grabbed procparts from there, no trouble so far
<Graf> Oh, well, nvm. Sorry R-Dog (that won't ping, I hope! :) )
<egg> stratochief|away: principia is out btw
* egg tilts stratochief|away
<stratochief|away> Graf: 0.9 or 1.0, because at that point I figured out clouds and other pretty bits, we possibly even had scatterer starting then
stratochief|away is now known as stratochief
<Graf> I still remember .25, the era where you had to CONSTANTLY watch the memory, knowing full well that next launch might crash the game...
<waerloga> I never had good luck with various visual enhancements
<egg> !wpn stratochief
* Qboid gives stratochief an ascending otter
<egg> otter!
<Graf> that was my least fav. I did like .9 though, because you're right, working clouds was dope!
<waerloga> Graf: that was true till 64bit windows....hence why I always ran KSP in linux
<stratochief> egg: I prefer an elongated muskrat, myself
<Graf> ALso, mornin' Egg and waerloga
<egg> egg!
<Graf> by the way, egg , I'm a HUGE fan of your forum thread for Principia - it reads like a masters thesis and I love it.
<egg> frankly by now it reads like a mess, because it has accumulated all the updates and hasn't been cleaned up
<zilti> stratochief: Golden Spreadsheet? No, never heard of it
<egg> ... arguably that makes it read like a MSc thesis, but that's a bit too honest about graduate education :-p
<Graf> In my defense I haven't been there in forever.
<waerloga> so clean it up and turn it into a doctorial thesis :P
<Graf> But yes, you should do that - get a degree, get rich, die trying.
<stratochief> zilti: RP-0#610
<egg> Graf: I have an MSc. in math :-p
<Qboid> [#610] title: 1.2.2 Update | Lists of mods need for RP-0... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/610
<egg> speaking of which, the principia bibliography is madly out of date, I should look into that at some point
B787_Bed is now known as B787_Work
<Graf> I should have guessed on that, haha.
<zilti> stratochief: Yeah? I have all of those installed
<zilti> (Except the renamer)
<egg> Graf: only since october though :-p
<zilti> stratochief: ...ahh, there's the spreadsheet :P
* egg tilts stratochief
<egg> stratochief: btw at some point someone should make a correct skybox for RSS
<egg> all of the ones that are out there are wrong in one way or another :-p
<zilti> stratochief: Yeah, I've installed that version of ProceduralParts. I get a popup on launch complaining about it being out of date, the elements don't appear, and it breaks the search function. Even when I compile it myself
<egg> stratochief: see the note here http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/62205-wip122-principia-version-cardano-released-2016-03-28-n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation/&page=25#comment-2722222
rsparkyc has joined #RO
<Graf> Unrelated, but am I the only one who thinks that those addon version checkers are totally annoying? I rarely update anything that isn't causing errors, and I find that updating stuff too frequently is a recipe for disaster.
<zilti> Well, I mostly let CKAN handle that stuff for me, except for the few mods that aren't on there
<Graf> I'm going back and playing my old RO / RP-0 installs so I don't _Really_ want to update things from years old installs.
<zilti> stratochief: So for you, ProceduralParts works on 1.2.2?
<rsparkyc> zitlti: it works for me
<rsparkyc> s/zitlti/zilti
<Qboid> rsparkyc meant to say: zilti: it works for me
<zilti> Hmm.
* zilti flips table
<stratochief> zilti: uninstal AVC or miniAVC or whatever that turd is called
<zilti> stratochief: Is that breaking the mod?
<stratochief> it just complains if a tag is wrong somewhere, those warnings have nothing to do with whether a mod actually functions or not
<Graf> wow, I was super right to dislike those AVCs then :P
<stratochief> A(something) version checker, iirc
<zilti> stratochief: But it doesn't work here, it doesn't show up in the parts and breaks the part list as soon as I try the search :P
<stratochief> zilti: yeah, procparts works fine for me
<stratochief> zilti: you might be missing a mod relating to the vab search, or have a wrong one, or something randomish like that
<stratochief> my 1.2.2 install using that spreadsheet worked well for me
stratochief is now known as stratochief|away
<stratochief|away> there is virtue in waiting for release, or sticking with what worked for you
<zilti> I just deleted 50 copies of MiniAVC.dll out of my GameData folder
<zilti> And I still get that "Incompatible Mods Detected"
<stratochief|away> zilti: ....
<stratochief|away> then, you missed *something* related to AVC, didn't you
stratochief|away is now known as stratoresearch
QuantumSwag has joined #RO
<stratoresearch> my brain is not in shape today, yet I've got to do some geo-engineering reading/research
stratoresearch has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<zilti> stratoresearch: Nope, at least not in GameData. And I have pretty much every mod on that spreadsheet.
stratochief has joined #RO
<zilti> stratochief: Nope, at least not in GameData. And I have pretty much every mod on that spreadsheet.
<riocrokite> happy little miner http://i.imgur.com/FlEuB9R.png
<Graf> riocrokite: gonna paint some happy little trees to accompany it?
<riocrokite> discoteque version
<zilti> Ooh nice vehicle :)
<riocrokite> test colors to test seams, overlapping and other stuff, @zilti it will have variable drum speed so one can mine slower or faster
RokkerSleep is now known as RokkerWantsToSleep
<Graf> hey egg - would it be possible to do an orbital perturbation thing where you use an image file of some sort to represent surface density / gravitational anomaly, and have that actually affect stuff?
<egg> uh
<egg> short version: no
<egg> long version: that's not how you do that, you use spherical harmonics
<egg> longer version: paging UmbralRaptor
RokkerWantsToSleep is now known as Rokker
QuantumSwag has quit [Quit: Mutter: www.mutterirc.com]
ferram4 has joined #RO
<Graf> Am I crazy for liking the agena engine for crew transfer vehicles?
<Graf> I feel like it just works. I trust it.
<Graf> Also, it's very smol, so it works great tacked pretty much anywhere on a craft.
<waerloga> I like it too
<waerloga> I have often used Agena-D derived stages for many things
<Graf> 15 ignitions is pretty damn useful
Thomas|AWAY is now known as Thomas
<Graf> o7 Thomas
<UmbralRaptor> ping?
<UmbralRaptor> egg: Uh, just so I'm clear, spherical harmonics are basically like multipole expansions, right?
<egg> UmbralRaptor: yes
<Graf> next time I'm writing for a scifi game I'll talk about the polarity of the multipole expansion - Spherical Harmonics
<egg> UmbralRaptor: this PhD thesis splits the comet into bits before eggspanding apparently http://tesi.cab.unipd.it/50198/1/Casotto_Roberto.pdf
<egg> well it's a phd thesis, so it probably does all the things that don't work and maybe some that do
riocrokite has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
Senshi has joined #RO
<UmbralRaptor> hah
<egg> UmbralRaptor: oooh look at page 66 in that thesis
<egg> equipotentials on cross-sections
<UmbralRaptor> Ack, rainbow colorbar.
* UmbralRaptor summons the wrath of SnoopJedi.
diomedea has joined #RO
<egg> diomedea: Cardano!
<diomedea> Hi egg, it's deployed?
<egg> no kmath?
<diomedea> you promised this date, so believe that's right
<egg> anche qua http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/62205-wip122-principia-version-cardano-released-2016-03-28-n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation/&page=26#comment-2999528
<diomedea> with axial tilt :D :D :D
<egg> \o/
* egg tilts diomedea
<diomedea> tilting with pleasure
<egg> diomedea: someone will have to make a skybox for RSS, all the existing ones are wrong
<diomedea> have to make a brand new install with Principia as the focal point now
<egg> diomedea: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/62205-wip122-principia-version-cardano-released-2016-03-28-n-body-and-extended-body-gravitation/&page=25#comment-2722222
<egg> diomedea: technically if you want a correct RSS skybox there is my test skybox, but it looks like a star rather than like a sky :-p http://imgur.com/a/sFC83
<egg> UmbralRaptor: star chart! ^
<diomedea> possible there isn't a skybox from NASA fitting the need?
BasharMilesTeg has joined #RO
<egg> well you have to get it rotated and mirrored properly
<diomedea> ok, sure
<egg> other people had made skyboxes, but they didn't get the orientation right :-p
<diomedea> so, fine to go with yours :D
<egg> and I just made a star chart because I needed to know where the equator and ecliptic were to test things :D
<egg> diomedea: sure, if you like big lines in your sky :-p
<diomedea> I often use astronomical software, and enable such lines to show; could be that's not a real problem
<egg> :D
<diomedea> egg, we have instructions ready somewhere about installing your star chart?
<egg> diomedea: no, but it works like other star charts
<diomedea> ok, will have to find any thread about skyboxes then, isn't something I did already
HypergolicSkunk has joined #RO
<lamont> egg: how involved would compiling principia for mac be?
<egg> probably involves patching glog or something?
<egg> in general it's building the dependencies that's a mess, once you get to principia itself things are ok
<lamont> glog?
<zilti> Google logging library
<zilti> egg: I'm close to solving that mess ^^
<lamont> ah found it
<egg> zilti: well on linux it's trivial
<zilti> egg: on Windows too
<stratochief> !tell riocrokite that is amazing! no sci-fi old NASA power dish?
<Qboid> stratochief: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<egg> zilti: on mac it just hasn't been maintained :-p
<zilti> egg: I'm gonna try it in my office on friday, we'll see then. I'm re-writing the build stuff with cmake as I said (all code generation was a breeze btw), and if this works there won't be maintaining needed :P
<stratochief> Graf: if it works, it isn't crazy :P I personally just use strongish RCS for crew transfer vehicles, because I only need a few hundred m/s from reaching orbit to complete rendezvous and docking
<egg> zilti: the maintaining isn't about the build system
<egg> zilti: it's about patching the glog source
<egg> zilti: and we're not interested in switching to cmake, as previously mentioned
<zilti> egg: I'm currently using an unpatched glog on Windows - granted, I'm not done building everything, but so far it seems to work
<egg> ...
<zilti> egg: That's ok, as I mentioned I'm doing it as an exercise to learn cmake
<egg> we wrote the thing, we know how it works maybe?
<zilti> I assume so
<egg> we added things to glog
<egg> so you can't use stock glog
<egg> if you managed to make it work it would also not give us proper stacktraces which would be bad for debugging and support
<egg> so don't try to use stock glog
<zilti> Alright.
<stratochief> what resources might be extracted from the surface of the Moon. polar ice, maybe? is Helium-3 concentrated in the lunar surface?
<waerloga> I thought that most of the lunar in-situ productions revolved around aluminum powder rocket fuel?
<zilti> Lol great, I removed KSPI-E and TweakScale, and now MM gives me four patch errors
regex has joined #RO
<Graf> stratochief: I had never thought of using just RCS - that's a good idea!
<xShadowx> .........this is ksp.....if you arent doing it the 'crazy way' yer doin it wrong :|
<egg> stratochief: also I guess you can add back principia to the RO recommended stuff now that it works :-p
<egg> (Green Mods are highly recommended, orange ones add to realism, but also make the game more difficult)
<egg> <<< and principia breaks the assumptions of most things, but gives you tilt and n-body gravitation and extended-body gravitation :D
<xShadowx> part of me wonders how possible itd be for nasa to make a ksp, but better, i mean developing a game can cost up a couple million, but thatd be cheaper than most of their projects, and itd be a learning aid to the world, and a viable sim to gather test ideas from the public, anything good can advance to bigger supercomputyers
<xShadowx> egg: you mean principia makes things easier by not breaking the laws of physics with magical cartoony math, and does what us sane people would assume as any half decent game should do :P
<egg> hey, patched conics aren't *bad* per se, they're a decent approximation
<egg> perfectly good enough for what you could do in the 18th century
<Graf> hey egg, it's been a while since I used principia - but let's say I put a space station up in a 420km circle orbit - would I have to worry about it wandering around without my permission?
<egg> in stock?
<Graf> with principia installed
<egg> right, but stock system, or RSS
<Graf> probably RSS
<egg> well RSS is certainly fine, look at real-life satellites
<egg> stock, I don't know
<egg> try it :-p
<waerloga> besides, didn't nasa use patched conics for things :P
<UmbralRaptor> Yes.
<UmbralRaptor> IIRC, they did for testing a bunch of voyager trajectories cheaply.
<UmbralRaptor> Mind you, this was the early 1970s…
blowfish has joined #RO
<stratochief> egg: I don't have the RO OP; Theysen does. someone'll need to poke him next time he is around
<stratochief> egg: and a few of us should try it out in 1.2 before changing the OP. rsparkyc and or NathanKell|AWAY, et al
* egg pokes regex
<regex> ?
<egg> regex: try principia! :-p
<regex> Yeah yeah
<egg> hmm apparently there's a crash, principia#1293
<Qboid> [#1293] title: ksp crashed after change of reference frame in flight plan | it was new game, has 1 vessel in orbit of kerbin.... | https://github.com/mockingbirdnest/principia/issues/1293
<egg> unlucky user though, I hadn't run into that :D
<egg> it's probably a bug in the C# from the looks of it
<regex> is RO at 1.2.2 yet?
<waerloga> I think it's in a workable state, but not yet released
<waerloga> if I recall the talk here correctly
<regex> Thought so. Thanks.
<blowfish> egg: can principia integrate over non-instantaneous burns to predict final trajectory?
<egg> yes
<egg> see the concepts page
<egg> but the burns it plans at the moment are fixed-orientation
<blowfish> fixed orientation relative to the parent body?
<Graf> it would be nice to have a 1.2.2 RO before we get 1.3 :P
<blowfish> (inertial reference frame)
<egg> blowfish: fixed orientation inertially
<blowfish> right
<stratochief> who's going to 1.3? I ain't :P
<blowfish> oh hmm, yeah I guess the parent body's reference frame is not necessarily inertial since it usually has a parent too, though that effect will probably be small
<xShadowx> nothing in 1.3 to care about, i speak english :P
<blowfish> not sure what KSP moves everything relative to
<xShadowx> i thought sun was the center?
<blowfish> it might be. I know there are mods that add multiple star systems though so I'm not sure what happens in that case
* xShadowx pokes Thomas
<xShadowx> oh ye star system jesus!
<xShadowx> so we have axial tilt now, what other big things was ksp still lacking?
<stratochief> regex: no point in RO going official until all the pre-reqs are. can't CKAN RO unless all the pre-reqs are CKAN-able
<regex> I'
<regex> Yeah, was just wondering
<regex> I'll bet 1.3 sees a drop in performance.
<blowfish> FAR is one of the major hold outs, there may be a couple of others
<stratochief> regex: on that note, FAR has a new testing version on the dev branch of Git. ferram requested people test it, so FAR can go official
<regex> 1.2.2 will probably be the last definitive version I install
<blowfish> the localization stuff may impact load time, hard to say at this point
<blowfish> it shouldn't really affect regular performance though
<regex> I remember the performance NathanKell was floating in the Unity editor, didn't really translate to the game.
riocrokite has joined #RO
<stratochief> I'm going to focus on adding function/fixing bugs in RO under 1.2.2 , others can chase the 1.3 dragon
<regex> I wonder if code obfuscation is still affecting performance
<egg> stratochief: principia isn't ckannable
* xShadowx will stay 1.2.2 too
<egg> stratochief: but principia is weird in many ways :-p
<egg> regex: the x64 build isn't obfuscating
<blowfish> right, because different binaries for each platform
<stratochief> egg: just having it available through a forum thread is progress for Principia; not too long ago it was only distributedin a dark all^H^H^H IRC channel upon request
<blowfish> regex: NathanKell suggested that the kind of obfuscation Unity does shouldn't really impact performance
<blowfish> even so, the fact that they turn it on is dumb
<egg> stratochief: distributed in a dark IRC channel by an egg in a trenchcoat best distribution outlet clearly
<egg> stratochief: regex: blowfish: much unrelated to anything but https://twitter.com/eggleroy/status/838756704401641473
<blowfish> truth in photography
<Graf> zomg, the descent mode on the standard 3 man capsule is AWESOME
<Graf> I was able to essentially skip along at 60km until I'd slowed down to about mach 14
<Graf> and I barely burned any of my ablator, which means I can save a lot of weight
<blowfish> you'll actually use even less ablator on a ballistic re-entry
<blowfish> lifting re-entry trades more ablator use for less acceleration
<Graf> so I'd use zero ablator but have like, 9 G's on your crew :P
<blowfish> yeah
<stratochief> Graf: the 3 man capsule has sufficient ablator to return from the Moon. so yeah you could remove some :)
<Graf> I generally like to make launchers that can put my crew vehicle at a 1000km circular orbit, and have enough fuel on board to theoretically drop it into a 0x0 circular orbit, were that possible. It means I overengineer things a bit, but it's not like I'd be saving any engines on the first or second stage, so more fuel seems like no problem to me.
<Graf> So I don't really want to be too light on the ablator
riocrokite has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
<stratochief> Graf: even Gemini could return from a medium orbit like that. again, apollo has lots of ablator :)
<Graf> Well, I'll tweak things then!
<Graf> In fairness, I'm running missions in like, 6 different eras of RO, and can't trust anything! Not even you, Car-man
<blowfish> wasn't Gemini designed for maybe doing lunar missions at some point though?
<Graf> blowfish: to my knowledge no, that was never the goal - they had contingency plans in case Apollo was an abject failure, but I'm fairly certain Gemini was never supposed to be a lunar craft.
<Graf> Just because someone wrote a study about it, doesn't mean they ever wanted it to come to fruition. ya feel? (In before someone dynamic entries me and explains that I'm actually 100% off base)
<stratochief> blowfish: in RO the Gemini heatshield is -barely- lunar rated. not recommended, but I've done it before
<stratochief> and the gemini-boosters in the back rooms made up all kinds of plans for Gemini to the Moon, because it would have been cheaper and faster than Apollo
<stratochief> but Apollo to the Moon was the plan from 1962 onward, and potential savings weren't going to get in the way of that
<Graf> stratochief: well you also have to remember Apollo was about more than cost - they wanted to do a lot of cool science, and also have the prestige of a big space craft. Especially in the cold war everyone wanted to compare ballistic missiles, if you know what I mean ;)
<stratochief> yes, they wanted to science. they also wanted to send all 3 to the lunar surface, but neither panned out in the end :P
<stratochief> in the end, we did get a single geologist to the surface, so that is nice
<Graf> when you land on the moon, would you like to do it in a model T or a 69 vette?
<Graf> That's the real story.
<Graf> the gemini was pretty sweet for 62, but, it would really be hell on the two pilots who were wearing it for literal weeks.
<xShadowx> just drop your fairings and measure your ballistic missiles already
<Graf> it's all about giving other nations warheads
<Graf> would it be possible to make a rocket that could take off from venus?
<Graf> could SRBs have a low enough expansion ratio that they could do it?
<Rokker> :D based babby rocket is on display at kennedy
<Graf> Anyway, I'm taking off - 'twas swell chatting with you folks :)
Graf has quit [Quit: Web client closed]
<blowfish> Graf: surface atmospheric pressure is higher than the chamber pressure of many engines
<blowfish> oh :/
<blowfish> definitely SRBs wouldn't work
riocrokite has joined #RO
<stratochief> as always, the solution for venus ascent is balloons :)
<blowfish> probably yeah
<blowfish> use those to get above most of the atmosphere then use rockets
<blowfish> nuclear thermal turbojets could maybe work near the surface but then there's the part where you have to make the jet internals resistant to sulphuric acid
<blowfish> well actually, the surface temperature is also pretty hot, meaning that you couldn't compress the atmosphere much or add much heat to it before melting the engine
<blowfish> so that option is out
<rsparkyc> ok, what's the public opinion here: a lot of contracts require a new vessel
<stratochief> how about: send a balloon probe, get it floating around 70km or whatever, winch down a 'lander' to take pictures and possibly do science at the surface
<rsparkyc> should we drop that requirement?
<rsparkyc> if you can repurpose something you already have to fulfill a contract, why not do it?
<rsparkyc> NASA does that all the time
<blowfish> meaning that the vessel was not used to fulfill any other contract?
<blowfish> or that the vessel was launched after the contract was accepted?
<rsparkyc> no, meaning you launched something to fulfill mission X, and now you get mission Y, and you realize you could use the same vessel
<stratochief> rsparkyc: I like the requirement, but that could just be because I'm used to it, and I've seen many ways to cheat complex contracts without it
<stratochief> rsparkyc: you could open a Git issue, asking for feedback? make sure to poke NK or other contract creators it would be good to get feedback from
<rsparkyc> yeah, i might do that
<rsparkyc> for instance , i do a saturn flyby, and realize maybe i can get uranus too, but i don't want to accept the contract till i've already launched and set up my flyby
<xShadowx> reason 'new' vessel is used, is because it tracks the vessel for chaining stuff, otherwise you could launch one to goto orbit, and next one wants you to do docking, so without said ressel req, you could launch a new one (or old other one) and dock on pad
<rsparkyc> ahh, i see
<rsparkyc> so for flyby contracts, it might not be that bad
<rsparkyc> but for other things, i see the problem
<xShadowx> not saying every case fits that, some people are lazy and copy/paste :P
<xShadowx> just explaining point of the mechanic
<blowfish> yeah, station contracts are definitely one area where there would be opportunities to cheat
<blowfish> although I think you can already do that in some cases with clever docking/undocking
<xShadowx> so really, case by case basis
diomedea has quit [Quit: Bye!]
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<regex> Oooooh, repusposing? That would be awesome with regenerating sounding rocket contracts, I'd never have to worry about the cash grind again, just launch one rocket and install some mod to show me contracts available in flight..
Senshi has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
<regex> s/usp/urp
<Qboid> regex meant to say: Oooooh, repurposing? That would be awesome with regenerating sounding rocket contracts, I'd never have to worry about the cash grind again, just launch one rocket and install some mod to show me contracts available in flight..
<xShadowx> theres a mod for that
<rsparkyc> except it's broken
<xShadowx> (contracts in flight) :)
<xShadowx> aw
<rsparkyc> i opened up an issue for it
<Qboid> [#15] title: Exceptions being thrown | I mentioned this in the forums, but figured I'd also put a bug here to track it. I'm constantly seeing exceptions being thrown in the logs (will add them next time I open the game), and very often I ... | https://github.com/DMagic1/CapCom/issues/15
<regex> Although I did promise stratochief I'd do an RP-0 science mode run through so cash grind is kind of a thing of the past anyway
Thomas is now known as Thomas|AWAY
Senshi has joined #RO
<waerloga> well there's "science from X" that was reusable
<waerloga> didn't always have to launch a new rocket
<regex> I never got those.
<waerloga> "science from near earth" type contracts?
<regex> I don't think I've ever seen on in RP-0
<waerloga> huh...maybe I was halluciatning?
<regex> if I had, I would have milked the living shit out of it.
<waerloga> it might have also been older and removed for that very reason
<regex> vOv I've sworn off playing KSP with funds, it never fails to piss me off, no matter who writes the system
<rsparkyc> i saw the science from X contracts, but they only paid out like 5k
<Qboid> [#632] title: Removed the NewVessel requirement from the flyby contracts | @stratochief66 @NathanKell see any problems with this? By doing this, I could setup a Jupiter flyby, and then if I see that I could also swing by Saturn, I could accept that contract later and use my... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/632
<rsparkyc> feel free to tell my why that's a horrible idea on the PR
<rsparkyc> meanwhile, i'm going to make sure that actually works...
<regex> lol
<rsparkyc> ok, it seems to work
<rsparkyc> i'm using it in my install, even if noone else is :)
<egg> !wpn rsparkyc
* Qboid gives rsparkyc an Oxford kitten
<egg> an Oxford kitten, an Oxford university press, and an Oxford comma.
<rsparkyc> haha
<soundnfury> parse error: 'r' is not an hexadecimal digit
<soundnfury> rsparkyc: well *I* think it's a good idea
<rsparkyc> thanks soundnfury!
<soundnfury> but that's because I'm shit at planning gravity assists before launch
<soundnfury> (all the tools seem to be windows/mac only, and when I tried to write my own Lambert took my lunch money and made me cry)
<rsparkyc> haha, well that makes 2 of us
<xShadowx> regex: mostly the reason i quit using funds too, it just seems so....spawn it out of thin air to me....try EL and mining resources, build tuff, not spawn from VAB, the whole RTS kind of style
<xShadowx> you eventually get mining colonies you ship stuff around from, learn to make reusable designs that last longer than 30 minute
<stratochief> that is a good point. regex: feel free to make a cash-less EL/mining/ISRU based system. It could be called RP-Infinity. ie. RP-00
<xShadowx> RP-RTS
<xShadowx> :3
<stratochief> KSP-RTS?
<stratochief> what planet/moon would make the best hypergolic factories?
<xShadowx> and EL dioes recipes, which is still so underused, so you can make as complex of crafting chains as you want
<xShadowx> another guy mentioned tying in factorio but eh
<stratochief> LOL. launch a rocket in Factorio, get some basic resources in KSP-RTS?
<stratochief> xShadowx: make some CO-O2 powered rockets for Tier1/Tier0, then shutup and take my money :)
<xShadowx> nah more like manufacture components in factorio, and spawn finished rocket parts
<stratochief> Factorio Europa KSP-RTS
<regex> Why would I do that?
<regex> That's way more work than just turning off funds.
<xShadowx> because spawn from thin air is boring
<soundnfury> xShadowx: trouble is, reusables only really work if you have FMRS or SR. Last time I tried FMRS it was buggy, it got confused by all its time travel
<regex> It's not boring at all
<xShadowx> mucho boring
<stratochief> rsparkyc: christ, sorry. just noticed you commenting on Rp-0 #610 . a pre-release for KSCSwitcher makes sense
<Qboid> [#610] title: Create 1st_Satellite.craft | A Redstone/Explorer knock-off built from stock parts. Works just like the original, but is by no means an exact replica.... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RealismOverhaul/issues/610
<regex> it means every mission is meaningful
<soundnfury> (which is a shame, because who wouldn't love to do KSP-RTLS ;)
<stratochief> rsparkyc: I might have more time to catch up on all the Github emails exploding i my inbox during the next week and a half while I'm away but probably not
<regex> instead of launching some dumb ass rocket I've launched fifty times before to get some funds, I launch the rocket I want with the goal I want every single god damned time
<stratochief> FMRS?
<regex> That's far more fun than sheperding sounding rockets to space for hours on end.
<xShadowx> soundnfury: hopefully FMRS gets fixed ;p but it isnt needed, thats only for multi staging, but even stuff like space shuttle, using KIS/KS/IR and reattaching newly built boosters isnt too bad
<stratochief> regex: you always sound like you tried RP-0 on TooHard mode over a year ago, and are still bitter about it :P
<xShadowx> i used spaceplanes with basicly no belly, IR to attach payload, goto orbit
<stratochief> as if selecting the wrong difficulty setting for yourself wasn't something you can control
<xShadowx> stratochief: FMRS lets you multi stage, and switch to past stages to control / return, useful for ir launches
<regex> stratochief, it's not the "difficulty" setting, it's the "grind" setting.
<stratochief> regex: tomato, tomato
<regex> and there's an easy way for me to correct it which I've done in stock as well.
<xShadowx> air launches/*
<soundnfury> stratochief: I *like* playing RP-0 on hard mode. That's precisely why I'm making my Icelandic launch sites patch :)
<stratochief> soundnfury: who not SSP? Santa's Space Program
<soundnfury> stratochief: have you _any_ idea how much delta-V it takes to visit _every_ child in the world in one night?
<stratochief> what ISP does 'child wishes' deliver?
<stratochief> I have to assume santa uses nuclear thermal jet engines
<soundnfury> as with all fuels, it depends how hot you burn them
blowfish has joined #RO
Senshi has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<rsparkyc> stratochief: for https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/610, i was talking about making a prerelase of RP-0, not KSCSwitcher
<Qboid> [#610] title: 1.2.2 Update | Lists of mods need for RP-0... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/610
<rsparkyc> KSCSwitcher has a proper release for 1.2.2 now
<regex> I just looked at that, did you guys ever care about Renamer?
<rsparkyc> we got it working
<regex> I might fix that because I fucking hate Jeb's stupid face.
<regex> fantastic
riocrokite has quit [Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client]
<xShadowx> anyone around good at using regex?
<rsparkyc> it's not very nice to use people
<rsparkyc> what are you trying to match?
<xShadowx> :) i did try to word that for double meaning lol
<rsparkyc> lol
<soundnfury> xShadowx: stand back! I know regular expressions.
<soundnfury> (xkcd 208)
<xShadowx> string ABCDEF i want it to match CD but only if between AB and EF, trick it A stays same, B is always some symbol not a-z, but prefix ie (?<=AB) doesnt allow the .* to be used
<xShadowx> (?<=A.*)CD(?=EF) would work if .* was usable
<xShadowx> so cant use prefix :)
<soundnfury> xShadowx: sounds like what you really want is "A.*(CD)EF" and then get the match group afterwards
<soundnfury> like (assuming sneks)
<soundnfury> r = re.compile(r"A.*(CD)EF")
<soundnfury> m = r.match(a_string)
<xShadowx> ohh right, i forgot theres non capture groups
<soundnfury> if m: use(m.group(1))
<soundnfury> i.e. use capture groups
<xShadowx> (?:A.*)CD(?:EF)
<xShadowx> :D
<soundnfury> xShadowx: no, that _will_ include AB and EF in the final match
<xShadowx> uh? the ?: is non capture says google
<soundnfury> you need CD to be in a capturing group because that's the bit you actually want to reference
<soundnfury> xShadowx: "non capturing" just means "this group isn't backreferenceable"
<rsparkyc> i always put everything in they're own capture group
<rsparkyc> and then just pull out the one i want
<soundnfury> it is still included in the "whole match", it just doesn't create a "subexpression match group"
<rsparkyc> i wrote a regex matcher once, i wish i could find it
<rsparkyc> nice little windows forms app
<rsparkyc> that was before i started making my own git repos
<xShadowx> heh i should find a nice windows regex tester app
rsparkyc has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<soundnfury> basically, don't ever use prefix/postfix conditions, just use appropriate capture groups and then extract the ones you want in _code_ from the match result
<soundnfury> xShadowx: or just install unix and use grep like a grown-up :P
<regex> lol
<soundnfury> at work, one of my current tasks is to extract a project from a mercurial repo (of many projects) and convert this one project's history into git
<soundnfury> for this my tools of choice are
<xShadowx> sorry i like to have an OS that runs every app i buy
<soundnfury> 1) a program called reposurgeon, whose user interface is modelled on ed
<soundnfury> and 2) ed
<soundnfury> xShadowx: I like to have an OS where every app I need is free & I don't have to buy
<soundnfury> (KSP is literally the only piece of software I have bought in about the last 10 years)
<xShadowx> soundnfury: sure find me a free version of maya, photoshop, aftereffects
<xShadowx> il let you slip on 3DS as i dont use it much anymore
<soundnfury> are you designing for print or screen?
<soundnfury> if screen, then the gimp is an entirely adequate photoshop replacement
<regex> ^^ accurate
<xShadowx> have to replace all 3, to streamline workflow
<xShadowx> so nope :P
<xShadowx> to be fair i should prolly point out i didnt buy any of em ;3 gifted by a past job
<xShadowx> on a side note, why do i never see professional using gimp?-.-
<xShadowx> everytime i hear of it its closer to 'free alternative for hobbies'
<soundnfury> xShadowx: probably because professionals have to design for print
<soundnfury> and they have weird craxy requirements that not enough hackers are interested in to implement
<soundnfury> of course, if one of these professionals just learned to hack, they could write their own code, with blackjack and hookers.
<xShadowx> giggity
B787_Work is now known as B787_300
<soundnfury> because while your platform might have good design & modelling apps, mine has the _best_ software engineering tools
<xShadowx> uh huh :P
<soundnfury> and I don't mean big apps like IDEs. I don't even mean compilers. I mean all the little PWB things in the Unix environment.
<soundnfury> sed. grep. Heck, even wc.
<regex> *nix development best development
<soundnfury> regex: ^^
<regex> i may play games on a Windows machine but when it's time to get shit done I do it in Linux.
<xShadowx> speaking of which, anyone on linux using ksp 1.2.9 and know if squad fixed some of the issues linux peeps had?
<xShadowx> still see peeps in kspo everyday with low fps on linux since 1.2 for example :|
<soundnfury> xShadowx: 1.2.2 here, seems to be fine
<soundnfury> but then I _always_ get low fps because my PC was not built with gaming in mind, so eh
<xShadowx> heh win7, and about 120-200 dps depending size of ship loaded
<regex> The biggest performance hit I've seen is when using an onboard/Intel video card
<xShadowx> just wish ksp used gpu more
<xShadowx> i open 7dtd and my gpu can max out, gfx still look like cheap crap tho XD
<regex> I haven't thrashed my work computer with KSP for a few months now that I have a proper gaming laptop.
<xShadowx> (7dtd also unity based)
<regex> i bought that. It does look like crap
<xShadowx> its fun though
<xShadowx> esp with mods
<xShadowx> just installed one that is their equiv of RO heh gator ate me 20 sec after starting
<stratochief> !tell rsparkyc ahh. go for it. I go away tomorrow, won't be back for a few weeks.
<Qboid> stratochief: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
Wetmelon has joined #RO
regex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Thufir has joined #RO
Snoozee is now known as Majiir
egg is now known as egg|paradoxical|egg
egg|paradoxical|egg is now known as egg|NaN|egg
egg|NaN|egg is now known as egg
Hohman has joined #RO
leudaimon has joined #RO
HypergolicSkunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]