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<pap1723>
stratochief are you Kyle Laskowski on YouTube?
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<blowfish>
It's a good thing there is no successor to the Delta IV, otherwise talking about rockets would get very confusing
<pap1723>
Do you mean the Vulcan blowfish?
<blowfish>
Pap1723: Delta II, Delta III, Delta IV, ...
<pap1723>
The Thor-Delta line is all kinds of messed up
<pap1723>
Its the Delta II, but it is really the Delta 6000 series, or the Delta 7000 series, so damn confusing
<pap1723>
How much Delta-v would the Delta V have?
<blowfish>
presumably all of it
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<pap1723>
Hey stratochief, are you Kyle Laskowski on YouTube?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yep yep
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<pap1723>
Ah, I really enjoy your videos on RO
<stratochief>
thankee. did you know NathanKell also has a series?
<pap1723>
Yes, I had seen his before, even caught some of his live streams on Twitch
<stratochief>
there are so many more great series on youtube demonstrating and playing RO than when I found it, which is awesome
<stratochief>
Pap1723: I should have boots on Mars within the year, fingers crossed :)
<pap1723>
Nice!
<pap1723>
I am at the point in my career at basically about Gemini
<stratochief>
excellent :)
<pap1723>
Haven't landed on the Moon yet, but have flown by Mars and Venus (unmanned of course)
<stratochief>
what are your longterm goals? human lunar mission? have you selected your mission mode yet, single or multi-launch, etc.
<stratochief>
first unmanned lunar landing is a big, fun one as well
<pap1723>
I am basically playing a quasi US career with some small changes where I see necessary, but only using US engines really
<pap1723>
So I am planning on going all up Apollo Saturn style
<stratochief>
have you landed your first probe on the Moon?
<pap1723>
Nope, not yet
<stratochief>
that is a hard one. gotta make sure you've got a high enough TWR, and a throttle-able engine
<pap1723>
yeah, I have run a few tests using RCS thrusters, but I don't think I have an engine that works for me yet
<stratochief>
I'm nearly ready to send my first probe to the surface of Mars, I still need to configure a solid oxide electrolyser to produce CO and O2 from the CO2 there. I've tested what I need for my first Apollo mission (I used Gemini all the way to the Moon), I just need to wait for the tech to unlock and ensure I've placed all necessary parts in the tech tree
<pap1723>
I have been working on a large campaign creation of the US Space Race with historical contracts and a new tech tree to use with RO, so playing these missions is a fun break from that as well
<pap1723>
Are you using Real ISRU?
<stratochief>
and I've had the hardware ready for a long stay mission in the Moon (dual Saturn V launches) for months, just don't have the tech yet
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yep, I made the MarsISRU parts in RealISRU. I scaled a couple parts down for my demo mission. I don't think RealISRU has the right part for turning CO2 to CO and O2, but I could have missed it
<pap1723>
Nice, I haven't looked into Real ISRU yet, that'll be for another playthrough
<stratochief>
Pap1723: that sounds like a pretty ambitious project, a tech tree and new contracts. have you poked the code in the RP-0 contracts? they are good to learn from and/or modify
<stratochief>
Pap1723: RealISRU isn't placed for RP-0 yet, but I'll configure at least some of it as I go along in my campaign
<pap1723>
Yeah, I actually have a couple of mods out, one is the Historical Progression Tech Tree and the other is the Historical Progression Contract Pack, they are deisgned with Stock in mind though
<stratochief>
same with some parts from Blue Dog Design Bureau. I'm using the small Apollo service modules, since my Apollo doesn't go to the Moon
<pap1723>
Ah, I actually did all of the Apollo BDB parts as well for RO
<pap1723>
I just haven't tested them well enough to create a Pull Request
<stratochief>
Nice! So you know a thing or two about contract creation using CC. RP-0 needs someone able to improve/add contracts, if you're ever interested :)
<pap1723>
What kind of contracts are you looking for? I have created every single type of contract that can be imagined already! lol
<stratochief>
Pap1723: Nice! yeah, BDB is pretty solid. I don't really want to configure everythign from it, since I made or improved most of the RO configs from FASA, so I'm burned out somewhat on american parts
<pap1723>
Yeah, I need to do the 11x Sergeants since the FASA collider is broken
<stratochief>
Pap1723: well, our station contract(s) is/are a bit clunky, hopefully that can be refined. a longer stay lunar contract would be nice, and also rover contracts which trigger when soft landing has been accomplished
<stratochief>
Pap1723: indeed. that is the last broken collider in FASA, I think. but I don't expect it to be fixed anytime soon
<stratochief>
Pap1723: and smoother progression of things like polar contracts, where the first one you are offered has wider margins (to allow for user learning, and early parts being sucky and having no restarts), that sort of thing
<stratochief>
also, rsparkyc has an interesting idea regarding GTO contracts, so the player can act a bit more like a standard launch provider if they want to.
<Qboid>
[#620] title: Other misc contract ideas | - [ ] Get payload of weight X into GTO, and then relinquish control (this would be cool to simulate real life missions, where the agent designs the satellite, and your job is just to get it to GTO). R... | https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues/620
<taniwha>
stratochief: what's up with the collider?
<taniwha>
I might be able to do something
<taniwha>
(I have tools :)
<pap1723>
taniwha you cannot put the 11x around the 3x like it was made, it can blow up your craft when you decouple
<stratochief>
taniwha: ahh! well, the 3x Explorer Sarg package doesn't smoothly decouple from the 11x package
<taniwha>
what's the exact part I need to look at?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: plenty of suggestions/requests in RP-0 Issues for refinements to contracts or good ideas for new contracts. just nobody currently contributing to RP-0 does contracts. https://github.com/KSP-RO/RP-0/issues
<pap1723>
I will take a look @stato
<pap1723>
How do I talk directly do someone like that?
<taniwha>
./Probes/Explorer/Explorer_Sgt_11.mu ?
<taniwha>
or _Dec?
<stratochief>
taniwha: the decoupler, I believe. basically, it attaches at the top of the 3x group, and needs a hole in the middle big enough to let the 3x group pass through it as it stages
<stratochief>
Pap1723: pardon?
<stratochief>
ah, if you want to flag my name in the chat here, typing stratochief will do it
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<pap1723>
ah, ok, thanks
<stratochief>
assuming you've got autocomplete, typing the start and then hitting tab would complete my name
<stratochief>
*strat
<pap1723>
Would anyone be opposed to me looking at restructuring the entire contract progression and layout?
<stratochief>
lol, no I meant start. clearly it is past my bedtime. why does all the interesting stuff always happen so late in the night?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: you're free to look and suggest. I'd suggest opening a New Issue on RP-0 and referencing all the other contract related ones, hosting discussion on changes there
<pap1723>
OK, sounds good, I will go that route
<stratochief>
Pap1723: and looking at changing one at a time, so people can discuss, give feedback, test, etc.
<stratochief>
taniwha: that looks like the bucket itself, Explorer_Sgt_11.mu
<taniwha>
ah, ok
<stratochief>
taniwha: the decoupler that attaches above that needs a hole like the bucket appears to, Explorer_Sgt_11_Dec.mu
<stratochief>
taniwha: although, for all I know that part also has a full collider in the middle, causing trouble.
<taniwha>
I suspect it's a unity 5 thing where concave colliders are no longer supported
<stratochief>
taniwha: yep, definitely. I just forgot about that part when Raidernick was kind enough to ask which parts were broken, then he fixed all the others I mentioned :)
<pap1723>
stratochief, has anyone figured out how you would relinquish control of the payload? it isn't possible with Contract Configurator, but didn't know if someone had done some coding for it
<taniwha>
that, or the usual duplicate colliders
<stratochief>
Pap1723: not sure how, no. maybe just auto-convert it to junk for now?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: or trigger the Rp-0 range safety? :P
<taniwha>
anyway, I'll go through all the .mus in the dir looking for collider issues
<taniwha>
Explorer_Sgt_11_Dec.mu has a collider with a hole in it
<taniwha>
Explorer_Sgt_11.mu looks fine
<stratochief>
taniwha: thanks! and while I'm adding yout to my KSPeople document because my memory or poor and I'm about to sleep, do I recall correctly that you worked at squad for a time? and do you/did you make mods?
<stratochief>
taniwha: hmm, ok. maybe the collider hole isn't quite big enough? I'm not sure, but the parts definitely catch and freak out/explode sometimes
<taniwha>
I did, last year (feb to oct), and I do make mods (Extraplanetary Launchpads, Modular Fuel Tanks, Kethane, Kerbal Stats, Survey Transponder, Talisar Parts)
<taniwha>
and maybe something else (6 or 7 total)
<taniwha>
stratochief: can't have a hole
<taniwha>
colliders must be convext in unity 5
<taniwha>
I'll split up the collider so it is convex
<stratochief>
taniwha: ahh, fair enough about colliders.
<stratochief>
taniwha: wow, that is a lot of mods. I've used a number of them, so thanks for all the work you did and do :)
<taniwha>
:)
<stratochief>
taniwha: hell, Kethane was big and great well before KSP itself added ISRU. you're an OG big shot
<taniwha>
there was FreeEVA, but that became redundant with 1.2
<stratochief>
I haven't used Extraplanetary Launchpads, but hopefully RP-0 will be advanced and modern enough with its own ISRU sometime that we can have manufacturing on asteroids, the Moon, Mars, and beyond
<taniwha>
_3 is fine as it's just a solid block
<taniwha>
stratochief: EL has a recipe system so it should be possible to make it RO compatible
<stratochief>
taniwha: yeah, definitely. currently RO doesn't have any associated mods for producing metals/raw materials for new rocket parts
<taniwha>
I'd be more than happy to advise on recipes :) (no time to make them, though, sorry)
<taniwha>
yeah, the _3 .mu files are fine
<stratochief>
taniwha: absolutely, that is fair. that is a professional looking manual, NASA style and made with LaTeX, or no?
<taniwha>
lyx + xylatex
<pap1723>
What is this LaTeX you speak of?
<taniwha>
and the pic is an actual screenshot from KSP passed through inkscape
<taniwha>
Pap1723: insanely advanced typesetting suite
<pap1723>
gotcha
<stratochief>
for science, math, engineering things
<taniwha>
Pap1723: do you know of Knuth?
<taniwha>
he created TeX. someone created LaTeX over top of it
<taniwha>
things went from there
<pap1723>
Ah, very interesting
<stratochief>
I'll have to try EL sometime, although I suck at setting up balanced and enjoyable modded installs in stock.
<taniwha>
(he created TeX because the typesetters of the day were... beneath his standards)
<stratochief>
taniwha: actually... can EL recipes take time, and consume power while the operate? if so, we could use that as the interface/GUI controller for RealISRU things
<taniwha>
not yet
<taniwha>
planned
<taniwha>
right now it's hard-coded to 5Khr/t (Khr = Kerbal-hour)
<pap1723>
stratochief, have you noticed that the LR91 does not shut off? You cannot shutdown the engine once it starts
<taniwha>
(the idea is they're assembling pre-made parts)
<stratochief>
taniwha: gotcha. but in theory that could become over-ridable within the recipe?
<taniwha>
stratochief: yeah, I plan on adding such soon
<stratochief>
Pap1723: how so? I haven't experience that issue. just throttling all the way down doesn't cause it to flame out?
<taniwha>
I was starting to poke at better stored resource handling, but I might do that instead
<taniwha>
(lower-hanging fruit)
<pap1723>
No, not on the 2 missions I just ran, also hitting Shutdown Engine through the Right click menu does not work as well
<taniwha>
nice. no animations in the decoupler. this will be fairly easy
<stratochief>
Pap1723: odd. I'm too sleepy to look into that right now, or ask more intelligent questions. maybe make a forum post about it for the parts pack it comes with (if FASA) or the RO thread?
<stratochief>
I think FASA existed before decouplers animated?
<stratochief>
just a poof of dust and... decouple'd
<taniwha>
quite probably
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<stratochief>
taniwha: are you aware of any youtubers who do good work using EL? I generally learn best watching videos
<taniwha>
not really, sorry.
<taniwha>
HMV did some, but badly
<taniwha>
TAPE Gaming is using EL, but hasn't built much yet
<taniwha>
I've seen others, but...
<taniwha>
oh, Beardy Penguin used it in his Interstellar series, but that's a rather old version (prior to survey stakes)
<taniwha>
but good with EL... dunno
<stratochief>
alright, well, keep an eye out for me. and I'll do the same for you :)
<taniwha>
(of course, I'm pretty good at it, but my video list is rather short)
<stratochief>
it is good to know who is displaying your work effectively.
<stratochief>
lol. short indeed. 6 videos, and none that obviously use EL
<taniwha>
Asleep at the Controls is the one vid that shows anything to do with EL :/
<taniwha>
(and still not obviously)
<taniwha>
however, it does show me abusing KAC's encounter alarm :)
<stratochief>
if you'd enjoy it, you should definitely record yourself playing w/EL and demo'ing it. I know I've enjoyed demo'ing and recording RO/RP-0 things :)
<taniwha>
I plan to
<stratochief>
nice :) :)
<taniwha>
just... time
<stratochief>
yeah... time indeed.
<stratochief>
hopefully in a year I'll be on Mars :P
<taniwha>
oh, that Body Lift vid might amuse you
<stratochief>
alright, sleep time. I now fee like I've dropped mushrooms.
<stratochief>
good to more thoroughly meet you taniwha, it was a pleasure. same to you as well Pap1723!
<taniwha>
optimized it slightly and corrected the transform names
<taniwha>
(they had Stg instead of Sgt)
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<HypergolicSkunk>
good morning :) I am trying to get RP-0 to work. I installed Strawberry Perl, my command-prompt is inside the KSP game folder, I am running 'perl bin/yml2mm', and get the response 'Can't open perl script "No such file or directory"' - I feel like I'm missing something :D does anybody have a clue/tip for me?
<HypergolicSkunk>
looking into the Strawberry\perl\bin folder, I am unable to find yml2mm anywhere
<HypergolicSkunk>
wait a minute...
<HypergolicSkunk>
never mind :>
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<HypergolicSkunk>
I helped myself ^_^
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<taniwha>
:)
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<pap1723>
taniwha, I didn't get a chance to try out the collider fix you made, I will do that now
<pap1723>
WORKS GREAT!
<pap1723>
Thanks for fixing that taniwha I have pushed the request to the FASA Github
<HypergolicSkunk>
uhm. I'm trying to build a Bonanza with procedural wings, and it looks like the wings out-weigh the entire plane.
<HypergolicSkunk>
like, even the horizontal stabilizers alone have more mass than the cockpit + propeller combined
<soundnfury>
HypergolicSkunk: the Bonanza cockpit does seem bizarrely light, I've noticed
<HypergolicSkunk>
hm
<HypergolicSkunk>
I'll try another cockpit then :)
<soundnfury>
also: are you using spaceplane wings with a high mass-strength ratio?
<HypergolicSkunk>
no, early
<soundnfury>
because those might be quite heavy...
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<soundnfury>
(wings for subsonic probably don't even need 0.2 m-s)
<HypergolicSkunk>
trying with the Ju-78 cockpit now
<soundnfury>
(itym 87)
<HypergolicSkunk>
oops :D
<soundnfury>
btw did you see my biplane and triplane?
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<HypergolicSkunk>
ok, I've created a little video on Twitch showing what I mean. just building a small Bonanza-like plane, and the Procedural wings seem to have incredible mass: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/137340863
<HypergolicSkunk>
I left CoM and CoL visible during construction
<HypergolicSkunk>
oookaaay... I think that explains that, then
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<zilti>
It's weird, when I launch the rocket and Mk1 pod unmanned, it runs smooth, and with Jeb inside, I get below 10 fps. It can't be TAC-LS? I even removed Kerbalism to test, made no difference... same with a Kerbal stats mod.
<HypergolicSkunk>
hmm.. now I'm convinced there's something wrong with the CoM/CoL display. on image#1, I have CoL in front of CoM, but it flies fine. on image#2, I added some lead-ballast up-front, CoM is still far behind the front gear, but the result is instant tipping over, as seen in image#3 .. http://imgur.com/a/99Oh7 :/
<HypergolicSkunk>
hey zilti ... :)
<zilti>
o/ :P
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<pap1723>
probus_, that looks awesome, how do I use it though?
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<stratosleep>
zilti: could be an issue with TACLS throwings logging or garbage/errors?
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<stratochief>
egg|nomz|egg: new release soon? I just realized that the last one was 28 days ago, so... moon time
<stratochief>
also, I never applied that fix you and rsparkyc pointed me to, I just realized that as the sun ate my first craft to escape Kerbin's influence in a career test
<stratochief>
o/ acc. how goes life?
<zilti>
stratochief: Interestingly enough, all I get in the logfile are "NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object CityLights.LocalCityComponent.OnPreCull ()"
<zilti>
Which is something that can't depend on manned vs unmanned
<stratochief>
zilti: observer effect? :P
<stratochief>
have you tried removing citylights and seeing if performance improves?
<stratochief>
zilti: but anyway, is the difference "crewable payload" vs "uncrewable payload", or like "empty Gemini" vs "full Gemini" ?
<zilti>
stratochief: the latter
<stratochief>
because I've definitely experienced issues with TACLS being annoyed, particularly when I've got tanks locked, or the resource it is drawing is through crossfeed and not on the same part as the TACLS module
<zilti>
I have no separate life support stuff outside the Mk-1 pod. Though I do have additional procedural avionics thingies, and thrust plates with enabled crossfeed.
<HypergolicSkunk>
hm, what could be wrong if even with the barebone RO installation, the CoL is not displayed correctly? whatever I do, the icon is stuck in the ground.
<stratochief>
zilti: hmm. what about TACLS modules on vs TACLS modules off? what life support parts are active/present on your crewed craft?
<HypergolicSkunk>
I can reinstall KSP, of course :p
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<stratochief>
HypergolicSkunk: hmm. does the craft voxelize as expected? do you have 'the freshest' FAR from github's update branch?
<zilti>
stratochief: None are present. Can I disable TACLS from inside KSP? Or is exit->remove TACLS->restart the way to go?
<HypergolicSkunk>
FAR! of course.. I mean, i sort of have it, but I'm not sure I got it correctly. I went to the github, and downloaded what seemed like the newest one, but I'm not sure
<stratochief>
zilti: can't do that from inside KSP, i don't think. what I mean is 'toggled on' vs 'toggled off', but restarted and removing it would be a more thorough, more interesting test I've be interested in hearing back about
<HypergolicSkunk>
that's what I think I did (I asked in here), but maybe I messed up :) will try again
<stratochief>
HypergolicSkunk: I'm not much of a plane person, so I never look at the CoL.
<HypergolicSkunk>
heathen :P
<stratochief>
HypergolicSkunk: you could try with a dirt simple craft ((like, naked crew capsule) and see if it CoL's right
<HypergolicSkunk>
that's what I'm doing, and the CoL is stuck in the ground. I just re-downloaded FAR fromt he KSP_update branch, am trying again
<HypergolicSkunk>
yeah, uhm, leaving ModularFlightIntegrator out completely is probably dumb
<stratochief>
(Y)
<HypergolicSkunk>
it's always me :)
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<stratochief>
hey, at least you/we got it worked out :)
<stratochief>
I'm trying to work out whether using total stage impulse is an easier way to determine the delta V, compared to the rocket equation in a certain circumstance
<stratochief>
the circumstance being, when you've got two different stages/types of engines burning at the same time, like the 1.5 stage Atlas or anything with SRBs
<soundnfury>
stratochief: I generally use the mass-flow-weighted average of Isp in the rocket equation
<soundnfury>
I'm not sure if that's actually correct, but if it's not the errors will be pretty small for an Atlas Classic
<soundnfury>
(maybe less so for Hâ‚‚ + solids, that's a somewhat wider Isp gap...)
<stratochief>
soundnfury: yeah. I was like 90% of the way through imputting that form, then my computer ate my work, so I closed the computer and went to sleep. now I'm looking for a way to avoid re-doing the same boring thing :P
<soundnfury>
stratochief: eh, I just do all my calculations with a combination of konrad and /usr/bin/dc ;)
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<zilti>
stratochief: Nah, uninstalling TAC-LS doesn't change a thing.
<stratochief>
zilti: thanks good to know. I'm not sure what else touches just the crew...
<Starwaster>
what crew?
<zilti>
Jeb.
<stratochief>
Starwaster: zilti is noticing a substantial framerate/performance difference on the same craft, depending on whether it has crew on board or not
<stratochief>
wait... what about the damn little portraits in the bottom corner/IVA calculations? any way to disable those?
<zilti>
Hmm...
<zilti>
Maybe RasterPropMonitor is causing problems? Though I didn't have a problem with it in the past
<stratochief>
I think if you remove the IVA attachment in the code for the part, the portrait doesn't show, therefore no IVA calcualtion/cost
<Starwaster>
ok well first question is, did you look at the logs or show them to someone who can interpret them?