<stratochief>
Rokker: poor 70. probably didn't even know what hit him or her
<Rokker>
stratochief: I fixed ir
<Rokker>
it
<Rokker>
I got distracted while reading
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<stewart>
hey peeps. i know this is such a cliche question, but what's the latest with RO and KSP 1.22 and *warning!* CKAN?
<stratochief>
stewart: you're right, that is definitely a cliche
<stewart>
:-)
<stewart>
cool steam still has 1.1.3. Yay gaben
<stratochief>
if you're looking for a CKAN install of RO, 1.1.3 is definitely the best bet. as you may have seen, RO 1.2.2 is not on CKAN
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<stewart>
thanks!
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<pap1723>
stewart, there are still some pieces of RO that are not 1.2.2 compatible so it won't have an official release until then
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<pap1723>
What does the Orbital Pertubation scanner do? Is it looking at the wobble of an orbit?
<stratochief>
technically, pre-requisites for RO. if they aren't released for KSP 1.2.2 and on CKAN, then there really isn't a point to RO being on CKAN since it wouldn't be installable anyway
<stratochief>
Pap1723: I think so. that might be a real thing, or it might be made up. egg might have an opinion being the local gravity expert
<stratochief>
my guess is that the Pertubation Scanner detects mass cons, or disconstinuities. it is a way to map the variations in a body's gravity field, which are generally due to non-spherical shape or local areas of high or low density of material
<stratochief>
not dicontinuities, mass con means concentration, doesn't it
<pap1723>
So as I am writing a contract for it, what would be the best way to word it?
<stratochief>
it would be used for science missions, I think. "scanning the <body> for mass concentrations, mapping the gravity field"
<stratochief>
and I don't know how much they knew about this before sending probes to orbit the Moon, but the Moon has crazy mass irregulaties that make lunar orbits fairly unstable. mass concentrations tug at your craft, changing the orbit in relatively short order, bringing that mother down
<stratochief>
well, I was trying to make my solid oxide electrolyzer as a copy of a part that doesn't exist. that would be why my part wasn't coming into existence...
<pap1723>
Thanks
<pap1723>
That would make it more difficult stratochief
<stratochief>
if I was shooting for a less ambitious Mars program, I'd probably look deeper into configuring a carbon monoxide burning engine. that would be decent for performing a sample return with a light, simple craft on the cheap
<stratochief>
it is a novel, but entirely do-able idea. not the highest ISP, but still
NathanKell|AFK is now known as NathanKell
<NathanKell>
o/
<Qboid>
NathanKell: blowfish left a message for you in #RO [24.04.2017 07:18:42]: "released RF at long last! Lots of juicy improvements in this version, mind updating the OP when you have a moment?"
<pap1723>
o/ NathanKell
<taniwha>
if the CO engine can produce enough power to drive a big fan, you probably don't need a lot of Isp
<taniwha>
hi, NathanKell :)
<NathanKell>
o/ Pap1723, got your PMs, reading
<pap1723>
Thanks, no big hurry, I am going to be working on new contracts for a while
<NathanKell>
blowfish: OPdated
<stratochief>
\o NathanKell
<xShadowx|2>
o/
* xShadowx|2
pokes egg
<xShadowx|2>
so worlds smallest quadcopter is 1.1 inches, $40, should i buy it?;3
<NathanKell>
Iä! egg! Iä! Iä!
<stratochief>
umlauts for the ovum
<xShadowx|2>
egg always seems to be a timezone that misses you :|
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: how much does it weight? what is the cost per kilo, or per tonne? :P
<xShadowx|2>
that thing mustve took some effort to shrink o.O
<stratochief>
those tiny blades would make minced meat of your hand.
<stratochief>
2 ounch, os 0.057 kg. that is 705 dollars per kilogram of drone
<xShadowx|2>
lolz
<xShadowx|2>
supposedly worlds smallest drone
<xShadowx|2>
but somehow i think cia has smaller
<stratochief>
probably. ladybug sized
<xShadowx|2>
yar
<xShadowx|2>
there has been research into insect wings to fly
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<xShadowx|2>
cameras are still shrinking
<stratochief>
illuminate confirmed. the female astronaut that is currently on the station will come down with a total amount of space time of 666 days
<stratochief>
*illuminati
<xShadowx|2>
hah
<xShadowx|2>
i wonder who planned 666
<stratochief>
NathanKell: did you seem my demonstration of artificial gravity using KIS/KAS? https://youtu.be/wVV6rQ9cGgg
<xShadowx|2>
if they did it for a joke
<NathanKell>
stratochief: Ah, no! Checking!
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: I blame Felger. Was it Felger who works on ground ops for the ISS? that sounds right
<xShadowx|2>
i mean really grav should be part based not vessel based ;/ part of ksp that annoys me is so much just uses vessel
<stratochief>
NathanKell: it went surprisingly smooth, which makes me happy. it was broken last time I tried it out in KSP 1.0.5 or something. good thing, it will be critically necessary for my Mars Direct missions
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: you could make a second necessary gravity mod :P
<xShadowx|2>
lift too (try spinning a "rotor" made of wings)
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: if something you cared about needs part based gravity, that should be calculable, no? since the position of a part relative to the CoM is known
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: but even then, a large habitat would have different gravity in different areas. 1G at the bottom, 0.75G near the top closer to CoM, that sort of thing
<stratochief>
taniwha: what is?
<taniwha>
your artificial gravity demo
<NathanKell>
trivial to rewrite FlightIntegrator with partbased gravity
<xShadowx|2>
stratochief: oh i can get correct values, but havent poked anywhere near enough to know if i can apply it correctly to crew / all the code that effects crew with grav heh
<NathanKell>
not so trivial to rewrite all the compensators tho
<xShadowx|2>
and use IVAs to calc where their seats asre :P
<stratochief>
and with Persistent Rotation (which I didn't have installed during that demo) the craft can retain the spin during transit to Mars
<xShadowx|2>
chicken broccoli casserole = nomz
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: you caught me on a poor meal night; frozen pizza
<NathanKell>
taniwha: Yeah, all that fun stuff
* NathanKell
whimpers
* xShadowx|2
shares casserole with stratochief
<taniwha>
thought so
* xShadowx|2
shares casserole with NathanKell
<stratochief>
the fun thing about the artificial gravity is that KSP recognizes it as gravity. I made my kerbals pass out from it once
<taniwha>
NathanKell: I would expect it to not be necessary as the orbit is done on the vessel's CoM
<taniwha>
and the CoM would be the pivot for any part-gravity induced rotation
<taniwha>
so I would assume that a part-gravity implementation that induces only torque should be accurate enough
<stratochief>
I tried out some of Pap1723's contracts in stock 1.2 with Principia on the weekend, lots of fun. Principia killed me when I tried to leave Kerbin's region, but that should be fixed next Principia release in a few days on the new moon
<NathanKell>
taniwha: except the imparted force won't equal the predicted force, leading to things changing, no?
<taniwha>
(unless you want to handle extreme tidal forces (joint breakage), then yeah, ouch)
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<NathanKell>
o/ regex
<regex>
\o
<regex>
sup
<taniwha>
NathanKell: work it out as torque around the vessel CoM
<stratochief>
NathanKell: the MechJeb orbit reporting goes crazy when it is reporting gravity, but KIS/KAS lets you treat it as docked, then the orbit reports sane around the shared CoM
<taniwha>
NathanKell: remember, we fixed it so rotation doesn't break orbits
<regex>
You seem rather busy lol
<taniwha>
(well, really, you did)
<stratochief>
and since I'm doing artificial gravity for rollplay, and not because a sane lifesupport mod requires it of me *nudge xShadowx|2* I'll be alright
<NathanKell>
taniwha: I'm scared that the average is actually the average
<NathanKell>
regex: Heh
<NathanKell>
lil bit
<taniwha>
isn't that in our favor?
<taniwha>
all I can say is "try it and see"
* xShadowx|2
burries stratochief in a hole
<stratochief>
taniwha: if I have time this week, I will try out extraplanetary launchpads. I'm excited, since from what I've read of the documentation and what you've told me, it could serve as an ideal interface for RealISRU type things, where ISRU is done through recipes in EL
<taniwha>
I expect that worst case, we'll need a better CoM calculator
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: I'll survive for around 3 minutes! +/- loss of consiousness due to CO2 poisoning
<taniwha>
stratochief: cool! and I'm looking forward to any feedback
<taniwha>
I've taken a bit of a look at working time into recipes. ouch
<xShadowx|2>
use KCT for time :P
<stratochief>
taniwha: I'll try to be as minimal in my hopes/requests to support things necessary for ISRU, like a recipe taking time, or eating EC, or requiring a johnny engineer on the spot to run a plastic fab :P
<taniwha>
eating EC I think is already inherently there
<taniwha>
just put ElectricCharge = some amount
<taniwha>
it can't contribute to the mass, of course, but I'm pretty certain it will still come out as a (unit) rate
<stratochief>
taniwha: does it require the EC all at once, or can it proceed gradually?
<taniwha>
the problem with time is: some resources should take more time to handle than others, and some parts should take more time than others even if they use the same resources
<pap1723>
If I am adding very small circular RCS tanks to the bottom of my tank near the engine, do I have to connect my RCS ports directly to them?
<taniwha>
if EC is required, it's gradual
<taniwha>
I /have/ tested that by having batteries in KIS containers
<stratochief>
Pap1723: not if they are on the same stage (not seperated by a decoupler w/crossfeed disabled, which is default)
<taniwha>
it's when EC is part of a recipe that I haven't tested
<pap1723>
I think I figured it out stratochief - I was using SSTU tanks which are automatically flagged as crossfeed off
<stratochief>
Pap1723: ahh! strange. IIRC, the proctanks have that default set to allow crossfeed in the RO config code. perhaps you could change that in the RO code for the SSTU tanks, to save future Pap1723's from having the same trouble?
<pap1723>
I straight stole the idea of the little round RCS tanks from watching NathanKell RO RP-0 tutorial earlier during work
<pap1723>
Yeah, SSTU needs to have the tanks fixed in many different wats
<pap1723>
*ways
<regex>
What requires RCS Build Aid to be installed?
<taniwha>
stratochief: eg, I don't know if the calculations will be correct when you have something like { Metal = 1 \n ElectricCharge = 10 }
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yeah. NK makes some really slick looking rockets in his series. I just steal from history and mimic the appearance
<pap1723>
They have their max diameters all messed up when using RP-0, they do not upgrade on time
<stratochief>
regex: RO, I think? I mean, it works fine without it, but RCS Build Aid is nice
<regex>
I've never used it
<regex>
okay, that can go then
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yeah. 'back in the day' we got the SSTU tanks working 'good enough', but any parts mod that you like can always use TLC, config tweaking, improvement
<pap1723>
Yep, that is something I will work on **Soon**TM, now I am going to focus on the contract overhaul first
<NathanKell>
stratochief: I kinda steal too, just general looks and concepts rather than specific stages :)
<stratochief>
Pap1723: one contract at a time, right? that is probably the best way to go about it until we ensure we're all on the same page
<pap1723>
Yeah, like I am going to start with the early stuff first, post it up, see what people think and then move on when we agree
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<pap1723>
I have a 918 kg Lunar Lander that I am trying to land on the Moon for the first time. Is it ridiculous to launch it and it's 2682 kg landing stage with anything more powerful than an Atlas Centaur? I was leaning towards a Titan-E Centaur or a Saturn IB, is that too much?
<stratochief>
cool, cool. the only early contracts I had specific complaints about was the first orbital film experiment asking for too narrow of an altitude and inclination range. but then again, it has been a long time since I've played early RP-0, and anything can benefit from tweaks and improvement
<stewart>
test flight is a part of RO now?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: as long as your contract pay out bears the cost of a more expensive launcher, I'd say go for it.
<pap1723>
kk
<pap1723>
Basically I am going to launch a Titan IIIE Centaur Agena, totally normal
<stratochief>
Starwaster: testflight is still managed/made by Agathorn. Ro definitely recommends playing RP-0 with testflight, but it (like a number of mods) are optional difficulty/fun enhancers
<stratochief>
Pap1723: lol. why a full Agena? will that be your lunar decelleration and crasher stage?
<pap1723>
strat
<NathanKell>
That sounds very Agathorn :D
<stratochief>
didn't Titan IIIE send, like, Voyager to the stars?
<pap1723>
stratochief, it is like a half Agena with about 2700 DV
<pap1723>
yes, yes it did
<pap1723>
I am going to first see if my Atlas SLV-3C Centaur D can get it there
<stratochief>
Pap1723: ahh, so more like Agena A instead of Agena D. you could probably get away with an Able-like stage if you need that little dV
<stratochief>
centaur D can eject a load of mass from LEO, but the LH2 should be gone before you get to the Moon
<pap1723>
Yeah, the mini Agena / Able type stage is still going along, just trying to see the most economical Lower Stage to send it with
<pap1723>
I might go completely ahistorical for once and create my own
<xShadowx|2>
if you play RO without TestFlight, even though its optional, the RO community shall shun you :P
* stratochief
shadowbans xShadowx|2 to the shadows
<pap1723>
Remember, this is my first ever attempt to land anything on the Moon in RO, I am going to over engineer the shit out of it, this is not a space program worried about money right now, we are all about trying to make big statements, lol
<stratochief>
no shaming. I was fortunate enough to start learnng RO before a bunch of complexity enhancers were added, like limited ignitions, ullage, boil-off, testflight
* xShadowx|2
lures stratochief to the shadows with cookies
<NathanKell>
Pap1723: The American solution would be a retro solid (probably custom) and a few hundred m/s delta V on verniers
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: haha. cookies will get 'em to the dark side, every time
<stratochief>
while the soviet solution would be propaganda, protons, prayer, and a bit more vodka
<pap1723>
I tried that on my first attempt NathanKell , I made something that I would consider similar to Surveyor, in spirit I mean
* stewart
remembers why RO is a hassle
<NathanKell>
Actually the Soviet solution would be very similar, just lots of nitric and UDMH instead of a solid
* stratochief
hassles stewart in RO's name
<stewart>
so RO seems to be hanging on launch. with errors relating to testflightrnd.cfg
<NathanKell>
The Lunas had the same retro burn / vernier combo IIRC
<pap1723>
I did not put large enough verniers on I don't think and it probably weighed too much so there is a new crater in the Ocean of Storms...
<NathanKell>
Pap1723: ah gotcha
<NathanKell>
oh no....
<stratochief>
stewart: is the varient of <name every mod you're using> appropriate to the version of KSP you're using?
<stratochief>
NathanKell: so, what are your space interests recently? I'm still committed to finishing out my Mars Direct playthrough, but I've been thinking more and more of modern mission planning, and the how a modern times based RP-0 would be fun
<NathanKell>
Haven't had a chance really...
<NathanKell>
not even to think, as such
<xShadowx|2>
he doesnt love us anymore :P
<stratochief>
NathanKell: like, where all the super-early space program parts don't exist to clutter up the VAB, and finding pricing would be so much easier because parts are actually sold in the modern era
<stewart>
Stratochief, i did ask *warning* ckan to install everything but AVC is giving me warnings.
<stratochief>
lol. we are NK's bastard stepchildren
<NathanKell>
Problem is what's sold is launches, not parts
<NathanKell>
Nobody knows how much a bolt on Ariane costs, and Arianespace for _sure_ won't tell you
<stratochief>
stewart: I dont know if other opinions differ on this, but IMO AVC is gabage that just yells for no reason. I ignore AVC, and all AVC warnings
<pap1723>
stratochief, that is also on my list of things...help to flesh out the modern gameplay of RP-0, the tree gets sparse after Apollo hardware
<stewart>
Ok, i'll keep that in mind. I'm going to do a barebones install and work from there
<stratochief>
NathanKell: true facts, fair points
<stewart>
how come we don't get prompted about rss textures anymore?
<NathanKell>
My specialty! \o/
<NathanKell>
prompted?
<stewart>
when i installed RO it doesn't say prompt what size rss textures
<xShadowx|2>
prolly prompt by avc about rss tex
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yeah. I'm not aware of any good shuttle mods, and GLHF to anybody who wants to price the individual sub-components of a shuttle, let alone P&P it for RP-0
<stratochief>
stewart: 1. install RSS (and... the necessary textures obviously), test confirmed working. 2. install RO
<pap1723>
DECQ's Shuttle mod wouldn't work for RO with the right modifications?
<xShadowx|2>
avc only prompts if a .version file, so (assumptions woo) if rss tex has no version file, no prompt
<stewart>
alright i'm going to go through everythign step by step
<stratochief>
Pap1723: "with the right modifications" could represent hundreds of hours of configging, pricing and placing...
<stewart>
fingers crossed
<pap1723>
Gotcha
<stratochief>
stewart: have you looked at ScottManley's (or any other) RSS/RO installation demo on youtube? seeing it done successfully generally helps
<xShadowx|2>
i wonder how many man hours went into RO already :|
* stratochief
smacks xShadowx|2 with 0.01 person hours of questioning eyebrows
<xShadowx|2>
:(
<stratochief>
Pap1723: RN has also added a bunch of post-Apollo parts, in the various soviet Soyuz and station parts. not much priced and placed for RP-0, but very well configured for RO
<pap1723>
stratochief, yeah, he has a ton of stuff, just needs to be added
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: like... so many hours. maybe nearly as many hours as is in KSP itself if you count all the mods that are well configured and compatible with RO/RP-0
<pap1723>
If I ever get that far into my career, I will probably add them little by little
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yeah, that is where I am in my Rp-0 series. I hit the end of apollo, so now I'm configuring and adding parts to support my alt-history :)
<stratochief>
very fun, if a bit slow
<pap1723>
OK, my Atlas-Centaur D with a Able upper stage and a Surveyor lander is showing 14,791 m/s on the launch pad, think it'll get the job done?
<taniwha>
I suspect more man-hours have gone into KSP mods than into KSP itself
<taniwha>
simply because modders far outnumber devs
<NathanKell>
Pap1723 how much in the landing stage(s)?
<stratochief>
taniwha: certainly into the sum of all mods, I'm just speculating about the subset that support the RSS/RO/RP-0 ecosystem
<regex>
TOM CLANCY: THE SUM OF ALL MODS
<taniwha>
stratochief: still, the modders outnumber KSP devs
<stratochief>
Pap1723: yeah, how much dV in the stages once you've thrown it towards the Moon?
<xShadowx|2>
ksp be dead without the modders :P
<pap1723>
I am showing 10,300 m/s with my Atlas and Centaur stages, which means I should get about 11,000 with the stage and a half design
<regex>
Is that Engine Lighting mod glarishly terrible under RO or is it configurable?
<xShadowx|2>
and i was only wondering the time for RO git / configs itself, not even all the coding of submods
<stratochief>
regex: coming next Mars injection window. Tom will be signing on Acidalia Planitia
<regex>
Right?
<pap1723>
Leaves me with about 5991 m/s for TLI and landing
<pap1723>
it's gonna be tight with my skills
<pap1723>
But, the craft only costs 25,187 so I can fail 3 times before I lose money on the mission
<stratochief>
Pap1723: if tight, either gitgud with using saves and quicksaves, or build a bigger upper stage beyond Centaur
<regex>
gitgud AND build bigger
<NathanKell>
Pap1723: Of that 5991, how much for landing? You want probably ~2k in the stage and ~300 in the final vernier bit
<pap1723>
I just unlocked the J-2, that was going to be my next option if this doens't get me there
<NathanKell>
That may be underselling actually
<NathanKell>
maybe more like 2100 and 400?
<NathanKell>
The LEM had ~2400 total IIRC
<stratochief>
regex: it is configurable, I think. I made it a little better in my install, but decided not to go down the rabbit hole of making it even better
<NathanKell>
no, 2500?
<pap1723>
That should be about what I have with about 3100-3200 m/s for TLI
<NathanKell>
ok. I was worried you had >3200 in the Centaur
<NathanKell>
which would be wasted
<pap1723>
Launching now, will let you know how this goes
<NathanKell>
\o/
<stratochief>
Pap1723: screenshots! they will help us give you educated feedback. in particular, showing the craft before or after TLI, so we know how much potential you may have left for growing the final stages
<pap1723>
will do, waiting for my relative inclination to tick down now
<regex>
stratochief: ugh, another one tossed.
<regex>
okay cool, on to the parts mods.
<NathanKell>
argh, gotta go eat supper. I'll miss the spectacle!
<NathanKell>
Good luck Pap1723! :)
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<pap1723>
Thanks
<regex>
streaming?
<pap1723>
I wish, I'm not setup for all that jazz
<stratochief>
my Gemini Direct has like 3300 m/s for slowing into lunar orbit and landing
<regex>
egg is Cartan new? Have I really gone that long?
<regex>
fuggin FTB is messing with my head
stratochief is now known as stratochief|away
regex is now known as regex|AFK
<pap1723>
Actually, here you go regex|AFK I will stream this mission...
<ThisDay>
April 25: In 1961, the launch of the unmanned Mercury-Atlas 3 mission is aborted after the rocket failed to pitch over to 70°. The LES is triggered when the rocket aborts and the capsule lands safely and is refurbished for MA-4
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<Starwaster>
stratochief|away why are you telling me about test flight?
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<zilti>
Those B9 "Procedural" Wings - they can't be resized?
<Theysen>
Hover over it and press J as the tooltip suggests
<Theysen>
after that it gets tricky, I hate them to be honest
<zilti>
Theysen: Ah, thanks! I only get "Click [Mouse2] to show more info..."
<Theysen>
then it's not installed correctly
<Theysen>
there should be a small grey box with press J to edit
<zilti>
The edit window seems to work correctly after pressing J, though
<zilti>
Theysen: it isn't possible to "mirror" wings though, is it?
<Theysen>
sure, with the stock tools
<Theysen>
just hit r once and youre in mirror mode
<Theysen>
or what do you need?
<zilti>
Theysen: Ah, I think the problem is that these wings only have one attachment point, so a non-movable can't be used as "lifting surface"
<Probus>
soundnfury, what else can we use besides kOS? Is ther a kOS 2.0? :)
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<waerloga>
Probus: krpc is nice
<waerloga>
allows programming in real languages
<Theysen>
+1
* UmbralRaptor
wates for someone to use krpc with node.js just to see what happens.
<UmbralRaptor>
*waits
<riocrokite>
waters?
<riocrokite>
my first read was -> waterboards someone to use krpc...
<pap1723>
When do you guys typically ditch your fairing, 100k?
<Theysen>
depends on the payload and rocket
<Theysen>
depends on the payload and rocket, so yeah 80-110
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<stratochief|away>
Starwaster: your name starts with s, autocomplete failed me. stewart asked about it
RokkerSleep is now known as Rokker
<Starwaster>
oh ok
<Starwaster>
DYAC!
stratochief|away is now known as stratochief
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<Starwaster>
amazing. I can find out that the Saturn S-1B fins weighed 600 lbs each but not the skirt mass or interstage mass of the tanks. I used to know this stuff which means I found that information once already...
<Starwaster>
you know what? This is the goddamn politician's fault. Politicizing science and trashing the NTRS servers
<stratochief>
wy not politicize whatever you can get your hands on, as a politician? that increases your power and influence over it
<stratochief>
I never new the mass of those sub-components of the S-IB, so unfortunately I cannot help
<Starwaster>
because the politician's purpose is to serve the public not themselves
<stratochief>
Starwaster: supposed purpose. but really, their goal is to be popular enough locally to get re-elected. IMO, big part of a solution is term limits
<riocrokite>
nice Starwaster
<stratochief>
Starwaster: ooooo, so that is what is inside that strange bit on the Apollo service module. thanks Starwaster :)
<Starwaster>
yeah, I alway swondered what that was myself
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<Starwaster>
Originally I thought it was used to secure the service module to the adapter but it's umbilical ports. That hole mates up with the adapter on the SIVB
<stratochief>
man, going to LOR was a ballsy choice. that docking port is so big. my alt-history has yet to develop Apollo hardware, let alone such giant crewed transfer ports
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<Starwaster>
incredible. I can find out that the forward skirt vibrated at 45Hz and I can even find out how those vibrations were distributed at various positions on the skirt but not what its friggin mass was
<Starwaster>
on the other hand that document gives me additional confirmation as to boiloff mass so that's a plus
<stratochief>
Starwaster: I'd argue that launchpad boiloff rate isn't very important, since the launchpad tops it up anyway, and a good amount of the difference is due to air convection at zero speed at standard atmospheric pressure, which isn't really applicable to much else in RSS
<stratochief>
but if you find digging on this topic fun, naturally you should continue, and sharing :)
<Starwaster>
it's very important because I need something to compare against
<Starwaster>
it's a reference point regardless of whether they replenished or not
<stratochief>
isn't the boiloff rate of the S-IVB in orbit a sufficient reference point?
<stratochief>
anyway, the S-IB boiloff behaviour will be much more complex and interesting, because of the unique tankage
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<stratochief>
S-IB is a big LOX tank in the core, Kerosene tanks in the surrounding cluster, right?
<Starwaster>
boiloff rate in orbit can only be estimated. calculated. there's no actual verification of that number
<Starwaster>
for instance, for Apollo 10 it's calculated that 1014 kg boiled off during its parking orbit. THat's great, it gives me a starting point but the more data points the better
<Starwaster>
on the ground, there should be a better idea of how much boiled off based on how much we had to replenish by
<Starwaster>
that in other words, something verifiable
<Starwaster>
btw, some estimates that I've found for the orbital phase had it at 315 kg over a 4.5 hour orbit. That doesn't sound reliable to me but that that's the kind of range of estimates that are out there. That's why I also have to look at any ground data I can get my hands on
<xShadowx|2>
do those est indicate direction vessel is pointing in relation to sun?
<xShadowx|2>
more facing sun = more heat = more boiloff
<stratochief>
hmm. fair enough. I'd expect that they could get a good idea of total boiloff mass by observing the craft acceleration during a post-coast burn. more boiloff, higher TWR. of course, there would be error margins in all of the values used to calculate/estimate boil-off using that route
<stratochief>
they should've put a gas gauge on the tank, so they could measure the volume and pressure of hydrogen leaving the tank :P
<xShadowx|2>
what.....thatd be too smart though
<xShadowx|2>
and cant orbital conditions be replicated on earth?:|
<xShadowx|2>
giant vacuum chamber, artifical sun, toss in a tank, measure
<stratochief>
that is the most damn detailed info I've ever seen on an S-IB, damn interesting graphs and data in that whole document
<Starwaster>
I wonder what the odds are that the document you're linking to is open at least once on one of my browser tabs :(
<stratochief>
Starwaster: haha. well, I speed-skim for numbers extremely well. a skill developed by years of practice
<Starwaster>
I have so many damned tabs open that I can't tell from looking at them what they are :P
<stratochief>
S-IB interstage listed as 6800 LBM, whatever an LBM is
<Starwaster>
and we're talking about tabs... that some of them have been open for MONTHS
<stratochief>
metric pound? :P
<Starwaster>
MONTHS stratochief
<Starwaster>
lbm pounds of mass
<xShadowx|2>
Starwaster: i got 3 windows that that many tabs :| welcome to the club!
<Starwaster>
to distinguish it from force (lbf)
<stratochief>
Starwaster: yeah. I used to be a "tons of tabs open" kind of guy. now my digital hygiene standards require me to close all tabs weekly. if something needs to be 'open' longer than that, I either make an honest assessment that I don't need to read it, or I bookmark it
<stratochief>
the S-IVB detonation package is only 5 pounds mass
<Starwaster>
metric tons of tabs?
<xShadowx|2>
matric woulda been tonne :P
<stratochief>
fuck, I love numbers. in an alternate life I would be a happy calculator or accountant
<Starwaster>
btw did you know that an S-1C stage had to be shipped back because someone took potshots at it on the barge?
<Starwaster>
apparently, locals living on the riverside were known to do that
* xShadowx|2
claps slowly at humanity
<stratochief>
Starwaster: this.. i was not aware of. that is the risk you run, developing a space program in the former confederate states
<Starwaster>
and they targeted the flag if they saw it
<stratochief>
the South will rise again! This time, to the Moon!!!
<Starwaster>
yeah I didnt know either. I came across that earlier this morning
<Starwaster>
I never heard of such a thing
<stratochief>
alright, back to brass tacks. I hope that document proves useful, Starwaster
stratochief is now known as stratochief|away
<Starwaster>
oh I'm sure it will be useful for something. I take any data I can get my grubby little mitts on
<stratochief|away>
RSS/RO should really have a document repository
<rsparkyc>
figure 2-35: i have been looking for that forever
<rsparkyc>
if i'm reading that properly, that shows the ISP change when they change fuel flow rates
<stratochief|away>
rsparkyc: we've known about that for years. the thrust is also lower in that mode. challenge is to have a mod that adjusts the mixing ratio in order to achieve an empty tank. no way I could do that by hand
<rsparkyc>
yeah, but i didn't know what the exact numbers were
<rsparkyc>
now i can write a mod
<stratochief|away>
rsparkyc: 2-34 also shows how the thrust is a function of that mixing ratio shift
<rsparkyc>
yep, that info i had alerady
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<rsparkyc>
i just didn't know what the isp change was
<rsparkyc>
i guess i could have calculated it
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<HypergolicSkunk>
guys - just a quick and shallow question - is the blue CoL graphic meant to not change in size anymore? I remember it from 1.1.3, and iirc, it was just as big as the yellow CoM ball. now it's just tiny, even in stock?
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<rsparkyc>
i think FAR is what tweaks with that
<Starwaster>
1100 lbm of frost buildup if anyone wanted to know that
<Starwaster>
still no skirt mass
<HypergolicSkunk>
I thought so too, when pre-testing 1.2.2. then I removed all mods, and the CoL icon was still the same?
<HypergolicSkunk>
tiny and with an arrow down
<pap1723>
I have a bunch of documents, anyone interested in me making a Github Repo?
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<stratochief|away>
lol. Probus is an AI simulation on an arduino or something. sooo far behind :P
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<HypergolicSkunk>
ok, never mind. this small CoL graphic really seems to be stock-behavior now :)
<HypergolicSkunk>
I thought I had messed up a simple stock-install
<stratochief>
HypergolicSkunk: do you really want a larger one, or were you just curious about why it is small? hopefully, some config file somewhere would let you make it bigger
<HypergolicSkunk>
stratochief: I think I remember it having different sizes, depending on how much lift your surfaces produce relative to your craft's mass?
<HypergolicSkunk>
stratochief: here's proof :p I was worried there for a minute.... 'was this just in my head?' no it wasn't :p https://youtu.be/q-qo6-HYrTA?t=13m15s
<stratochief>
HypergolicSkunk: lol. well, I don't make planes, so I was willing to take your word
<HypergolicSkunk>
I plan to play an RP-0 career, and I always start that with sounding-rockets and simple planes
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<stratochief>
fair enough. I enjoy sounding rockets, but I don't enjoy building planes of any kind
<stratochief>
and the planes I attempt to build can't fly or land, so....
<rsparkyc>
i take it no one want's to review a prodedural avionics PR
<rsparkyc>
but i'll put it here in case people are bored
<rsparkyc>
ProceduraParts and TankContentSwitcher were displaying wet and dry costs on the part's right click window, so i disabled those and added my own
<HypergolicSkunk>
rsparkyc: the only thing I noticed when trying out ProcAvion was that neither shape nor color could be changed
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<HypergolicSkunk>
but I guess you're very aware of that :p
* HypergolicSkunk
ducks
<rsparkyc>
oh really?
<rsparkyc>
let me confirm
<rsparkyc>
…fires up KSP
<HypergolicSkunk>
I'll do the same
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<rsparkyc>
i know i set the default size for a cylinder, and set the default texture, but the rest should act (mostly) just like the procedural battery
<rsparkyc>
don't know if that's limited in the same manor though, but i'll check
<rsparkyc>
if you could check too that would be awesome
<HypergolicSkunk>
loading :)
<rsparkyc>
just to be sure, your ProcAvi unit starts as grey, correct?
<HypergolicSkunk>
I think so, and as a cylinder. the only value I could change was its size
<rsparkyc>
it would be great if we could have RP-0 specific loading messages
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<HypergolicSkunk>
rsparkyc: as a loving RP-0 player, I'd like to thank you for all that you're doing. you seemingly came out of nowhere, and picked up just about everything :) the biggest kudos to you
<pap1723>
rsparkyc, seconded and I just started playing!
<rsparkyc>
no problem, i've loved playing it, and was glad when i figured out how i could help out
<rsparkyc>
the biggest barrier to entry was figuring out how/where to get started
<rsparkyc>
(plus learning how everything works)
<rsparkyc>
considering this was my first modding experience
<HypergolicSkunk>
did you do any sort of coding/scripting before?
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i'm a tech lead at my current job
<rsparkyc>
been doing code for about 15 years now
<HypergolicSkunk>
ah :)
<rsparkyc>
started with c#
<rsparkyc>
last 5 years have been java
<HypergolicSkunk>
btw
<HypergolicSkunk>
issue is still there - context menu offers to change the shape, but nothing happens
<HypergolicSkunk>
it switches to the different options, but no dice
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i just saw an exception thrown
<HypergolicSkunk>
I was wrong about the textures, though
<rsparkyc>
let me see what's up with that
<HypergolicSkunk>
the textures work :)
<rsparkyc>
try cycling back and forth through the shapes
<rsparkyc>
HypergolicSkunk this is the weirdest bug...
<HypergolicSkunk>
:'D
<rsparkyc>
i thought maybe some of the MM patches i applied to set defaults were screwing it up, but after i removed those it's still funky
<pap1723>
Is there any interest of including a new Biome map for Earth and the Moon? I have created new ones that are accurate with named areas of the Moon as individual biomes
<rsparkyc>
how many biomes does it have?
<rsparkyc>
if there are too many, it may make the moon too science-rich
<pap1723>
Then yes, there are too many
<pap1723>
27 Moon Biomes
<rsparkyc>
yeah, you'd probably want to find a way to nerf the science you get for them then
<pap1723>
All of the Lunar Seas are named as well as the 10 biggest craters
<rsparkyc>
that's cool though
<pap1723>
I did it for Half Sized RSS when I made it and I like it because for me it adds more immersion
<HypergolicSkunk>
would it be too late at this stage of RP-0 1.2.2 development to wish for a super-extended tech-tree? one which - for example - has all the different Merlin engines in different nodes? :P I'm more or less kidding, but this would help with that crazy immersion Pap1723 is going for
<rsparkyc>
we're always looking for tech tree enhancements
<rsparkyc>
just need people to put it together
<rsparkyc>
are you volunteering? :)
<HypergolicSkunk>
if someone gives me a list of mods that this ideal tech-tree should include, I'd be happy to try myself on it :) can't give you a time-frame though, real-life is demanding atm
<pap1723>
Any interest in my adapting my Tech Tree to RP-0?
<HypergolicSkunk>
the thing is - everybody has different requirements and preferences - like, my own Tech-Tree should include all sorts of sounding-rockets, all sorts of unmanned tech, plane tech, etc
<regex>
The only problem I see with such a convoluted tech tree is that you can only research one thing at a time.
<regex>
What you'd need is some sort of "team" structure where you could have multiple sets of man-hours being spent on research.
<rsparkyc>
ooo, research percentage allocation
<rsparkyc>
i like it
<rsparkyc>
regex: make it so
<rsparkyc>
:)
<regex>
lol
<soundnfury>
Probus: well, for masochists there's KPU
<rsparkyc>
actually, it probably wouldn't be to hard to build that into kerbal construction time
<soundnfury>
also, at least _some_ of the things you might want to do in kOS can probably be done by adding features to konrad
<regex>
you'd probably want some sort of yearly/quarterly budget going on before hiring teams
<soundnfury>
it already computes everything a guidance system might want, it just currently operates pilot-in-the-loop ;)
<rsparkyc>
just like there are multiple build rates for the VAB, you could have multiple research teams for the science building
<regex>
How does Test Flight handle it? Might be another option
<regex>
Oh, so you can just buy the teams once?
<Agathorn>
handle what?
<rsparkyc>
yeah, then dump upgrade points into different teams
<regex>
buying research teams
<rsparkyc>
so they can research at different rates
<rsparkyc>
and they'll just research the next item off the queue
<Agathorn>
you assign teams to parts, different quality teams cost different amounts and research faster
<pap1723>
Yes to all of this, makes it much more realistic. Makes it much more like BAPIS and BASPM
<regex>
See, that's what I'd rather see.
<regex>
Turn the science points into a proper currency
<regex>
alternatively, remove them entirely and just use cash
<regex>
or turn science into "science cash"
<Agathorn>
yeah in TF you can research multiple parts at once, you just gots to pay your funds and time 0 balance funds vs time
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: iirc the 'team' is ephemeral and tied to the specific part
<Agathorn>
yeah
<Agathorn>
its an abstraction of numbers
<regex>
That's the same way I'd like to see research handled
<Agathorn>
there are no real kerbals consumed
<pap1723>
OK, what do people need from me to help make this happen?
<regex>
upgrade points would put maybe a hard limit on how many things can be researched at the same time
<pap1723>
regex, have them work like building in the VAB with KCT
<soundnfury>
regex: ok, it sounded like you wanted the creation of actual persistent teams that you 'buy' kinda like KCT upgrade points or something :shrug:
<Agathorn>
its also in an abstract UI because 1) tying into the R&D scene was a pain and 2) I wanted it to be usable by sandbox players
<soundnfury>
Agathorn: yeah, I like the simplicity of TF's R&D system
<Agathorn>
Thanks :)
<regex>
vOv, whatever, I'm probably not going to program it
<regex>
just throwing out ideas
<Agathorn>
:)
<regex>
what would be the easiest thing to shit out for the mod
<regex>
generally my thoughts
<Agathorn>
you basically have to replace the science system, which is something I looked at doing for RealScience but its a shit ton of work
<regex>
Yeah
<stratochief|away>
HypergolicSkunk: someone would need to price and place them in the tech tree (merlin engines) and IMO the different varients aren't sufficiently different to really be in different nodes with the course grain tech tree of RP-0
<regex>
and that's another thing, multiple teams makes more sense when the tree is finer-grained
<regex>
it's a chicken and the egg sort of problem
<Agathorn>
In my game the way it currently works is you assign teams to both general trees and specific parts, but i'm not sure if I a going to keep that design
<regex>
well, again, to shit something out, you'd probably just stick with tech nodes like KSP has
<regex>
<deciding whether to take a stab at this...?
<stratochief|away>
Pap1723: modifying the tech-tree is definitely worthy of doing, but I personally like focusing on one system at a time, and you're already getting going on contracts
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<HypergolicSkunk>
stratochief|away: you're probably right, but a tech-tree like that with a bazillion nodes would solve the problem of having too much science available on Earth and the Moon :)
<stratochief|away>
regex: have you looked at Pap1723's tech tree for historical progression in stock?
<regex>
They moved me over to system admin work, I'm not facing burnout anymore
<stratochief|away>
lol, Pap1723 beat my by a few seconds, I swear I had that link in my copypasta
<HypergolicSkunk>
rsparkyc: you're awesome :) anyone here is, but that's beside the point :P
<rsparkyc>
honestly i don't know what's up with that
<rsparkyc>
but at least there's some notes there to track it
<rsparkyc>
maybe someone else will have an idea too and can post it there
<regex>
Looks pretty cool, though
<pap1723>
lol, I happened to be browsing the forums looking at Agathorn wonderful ideas behind RealScience
<stratochief|away>
my problem with the historical progression tech tree is that I have a ton of empty nodes with my mostly stock install
<rsparkyc>
i went ahead and merged my other PR, so now proc avi shows the correct mass and cost in the config window
<pap1723>
stratochief|away, yeah, that happens, you have to get Hide Empty Tech Tree Nodes mod and they all go away
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<stratochief|away>
IMO, the current RP-0 tech tree up until Apollo is fairly decent. we just need to add more parts and pricing beyond that period to get the best bang per time invested in improving the Rp-0 techtree
<stratochief|away>
anyway, I'm away. so back to away :P
<Agathorn>
RP-0 post Apollo in general is where work needs to be done
<Agathorn>
that includes configs for things like TF
<Agathorn>
RO/RP0 are heavily weighted towards early spaceflight
<regex>
Yeah, it might be nice to start a game already out of the Apollo era
<pap1723>
Would a contract that focus on specific areas of the world be something neat?
<HypergolicSkunk>
I'd love to help, but to be honest, I'm not 1% the rocket nerd most of you are, or that Rokker is, or whatever. I can follow instructions and orders though, being the German that I am :)
<regex>
lol
<regex>
I might take a crack at the science teams thing, at least during project time. That sounds like a fun, fundamental change to how the game would be played.
<Rokker>
HypergolicSkunk: wait wat
<HypergolicSkunk>
Rokker: right on time :) the man to help flesh out the tech-tree post-Apollo
* HypergolicSkunk
points all fingers at Rokker
<pap1723>
My example would be this..."Our military needs to make sure we have constant communications in the Middle East. Place a communications satellite in Geostationary orbit over the Persian Gulf."
<Rokker>
well... that's technically when you could start doing Chinese and indian engines, but technologically, they were sorta pre-apollo-ish
<Rokker>
you got a lotta ICBM shit going on then
<rsparkyc>
haha
<regex>
refining solids, also the quest for the more perfect MTBF
<stratochief|away>
Pap1723: I like missions that randomize to "geostationary sat at longitude X, +/- 1 degree" rather than giving it a narrative
<regex>
witness teh S5.92
<pap1723>
that is what I was wondering stratochief|away
<pap1723>
sounds good
<pap1723>
people can make their own stories then
<Rokker>
I mean, the post Apollo age was kinda a slowdown of new tech
<Rokker>
and more of an improvement of old
<regex>
Oh c'mon, making space telescopes for the NSA sounds like a fun narrative.
<regex>
or NROL or whatever
<Rokker>
sure
<HypergolicSkunk>
Rokker: in this context, I am sure that "post-Apollo" means "everything that came after Apollo" :P
<Rokker>
regex: that sounds great, but in terms of tech, not a ton happened
<regex>
Rokker that's basically what I'm saying, "the quest for the more perfect MTBF"
<Rokker>
regex: yep
<regex>
not much new, but man is that engine reliable!
<HypergolicSkunk>
that's what I was wishing for when playing end-game and still using AJ-10 and/or Agena engines
<HypergolicSkunk>
in the 2050's
<Rokker>
HypergolicSkunk: I mean, to be fair
<Rokker>
NASA is still using AJ10s
<HypergolicSkunk>
TIL!
<regex>
And the Fregat is still using the S5.92
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<regex>
Shit, the Russians just keep upgrading the RD-107/108 forever.
<pap1723>
But at least RP-0 gives us the J-2S and J-2X to use as well
<Rokker>
HypergolicSkunk: the SM of Orion uses an AJ10, and the Delta II still uses the AJ10 of course.
<Rokker>
HypergolicSkunk: altho some people argue about the family lineages since they are just pressure fed engines
<HypergolicSkunk>
but have those been developed any further, f.i. in terms of reliability? I remember doing a 7km/s maneuver with the Agena which only failed b/c of max. burn-time
<HypergolicSkunk>
or I was too tight on the budget and ignored the cryogenic options, obviously..
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<HypergolicSkunk>
the truth is, when I play my KSP RO career and these things are not modeled realistically, I will exploit them, sometimes because I don't know better, sometimes because I just want to enjoy the game :)
<Rokker>
HypergolicSkunk: let's see
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<Rokker>
the last AJ10 upgrade for delta was 89
<Rokker>
HypergolicSkunk: and the ones on Orion were last really updated in 81
<HypergolicSkunk>
so they're basically one-trick ponies
<Rokker>
or that's the last update major enough to warrant a designation change
<HypergolicSkunk>
superb ones, of course, but nonetheless
<Rokker>
there was an update of the shuttle ones in 87 but it never went anywhere
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<HypergolicSkunk>
anyway, I am going to bed now. if you guys need someone for a thankless and mindless job that is easy but tedious, let me know :)
<stratochief|away>
HypergolicSkunk: go through the list of parts mods listed as RO compatible make a spreadsheet of whethere they are Rp-0 compatible or not?
<stratochief|away>
and if they are not, whether they are worth making RP-0 compatible? that work could be logged/managed in an RP-0 Issue or Ro Issue, as a "census of compatibility"
<rsparkyc>
yeah, that would be awesome
<stratochief|away>
hell, checking if old as balls mods like AIES are actually still Ro compatible, or even released/compatible themselves with KSP 1.2
<rsparkyc>
Pap1723: don't know if you'll know the answer, but how feasible would principia contracts be?
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<stratochief|away>
my guess is that Principia contracts would need some support from the egg man
<egg>
I am the walrus
<Rokker>
Pap1723: I think what would be interesting in your specific part of the world thing is if it limited you to like sorta one side of tech, like western or eastern tech. not sure about the viability of that
<rsparkyc>
i'm thinking for L1-L3 orbits, you could say "maintain x distance from body a, and y distance from body b, for some amount of time"
<rsparkyc>
L4 and L5 actually could be the same, but i don't know how the contract would know if you're ahead in orbit or behind
<Rokker>
and if you wanted to unlock opposing tech you had to like either spy or fun sorta joint missions or at least joint research through the focuses or whatever it's called
<Rokker>
but
<Rokker>
that might be a bit hard to enable
<rsparkyc>
so maybe all L4 and L5 contracts would be "enter a probe into either L4 or L5"
<pap1723>
rsparkyc, the contracts could be created, but I am not familiar enough with how Principia is to know what would need to be modeled. I understand it is real world, but with contracts the way they are, you set the orbit parameters based on the body you are orbiting
<pap1723>
How do stock contracts work in Principia?
<rsparkyc>
I know NathanKell|Away was kinda against contracts that gave out science (unless it's small), but having a solar flare observer in Earth-Sun L1, and maintaing that orbit every year might be worth some extra science
<Rokker>
I need to re-trt principia
<Rokker>
retry
<Rokker>
but I'm not sure my computer would like it
<rsparkyc>
i don't know if there are stock contracts with that
<Rokker>
with my current mod loadout
<rsparkyc>
i would think that all the existing contracts would work fine
<stratochief|away>
rsparkyc: why not have science equipment that only works in a certain location? can a regon of space be made a 'biome' to support something like that?
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<stratochef>
lol, I'll have to use that one next time I go cook something
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<rsparkyc>
lol
<rsparkyc>
i would think that would be tricky: having biomes that are related to lagrange points
* egg
is the eggman
<stratochief>
Rokker: test out Principia in Stock, that is what I was doing until it killed me. i'm waiting for the next Principia release in a day or two to git better
<pap1723>
The thing is that with CC, you have a Target Body, so your orbit is around that specific body, don't know how that would work with N-Body physics
<egg>
badly?
<rsparkyc>
s/DISCOVR/DSCOVR
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: or things like DSCOVR
<egg>
many fancier orbits will have you jump from one SoI to the other all the time
<rsparkyc>
oh still failed
<Rokker>
can contract configurator do true anomaly?
<rsparkyc>
DSCVOR
<stratochief>
stock still reports the SOI that you are in, IIRC, even if it isn't used by the gravity model
<Rokker>
no wait
<Rokker>
that would be pretty hard
<stratochief>
Rokker: what is true anomaly? and, is it something computed in stock or only Principia?
<pap1723>
ORBIT
<pap1723>
{
<pap1723>
SMA = 1449999.99996286
<pap1723>
ECC = 1.07570816555399E-05
<pap1723>
INC = 0
<pap1723>
LPE = 270.690311604893
<pap1723>
LAN = 1.93635924563296
<pap1723>
MNA = 1.55872660382504
<pap1723>
EPH = 31.3999999999994
<pap1723>
REF = 1
<pap1723>
}
<pap1723>
Those are the CC orbit values
<Rokker>
egg: does principia actually calculate the forces of all bodies on a ship at once, or is there sorta a cut off distance/force for some of the farther objects
<Rokker>
Pap1723: pastebin is ur friend
<egg>
there is no cutoff
<pap1723>
ah, sorry about that Rokker
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<egg>
the main cost isn't computing the trajectories
<egg>
it's drawing them
<Rokker>
Pap1723: yeah np, just looks a bit big on a phone screen, ya know
<egg>
we're working on making that cheaper
<egg>
but proper downsampling isn't easy
<Rokker>
egg: fair enough
<rsparkyc>
you wouldn't want orbital parameters for L points
<rsparkyc>
since they're really "points", you'd just want to stay X distance from body A and Y distance from body B
<rsparkyc>
so it would probably require code changes to CC
<stratochief>
the only constant about code is that it changes :P
<pap1723>
From what I know about CC, Nightingale made it very flexible code wise
<Rokker>
stratochief: I guess true anomaly wouldn't technically show up in a lagrangian orbit
<pap1723>
Is it true that using Principia causes the moons of Jool to go flying off into interstellar space?
<rsparkyc>
yes
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<pap1723>
lol
<rsparkyc>
it's fun to watch
<Rokker>
how fast do they fly ofg
<Rokker>
ofg
<Rokker>
off
<rsparkyc>
i think they're just above escape velocity
<rsparkyc>
but technically i think the celestial bodies collide
<rsparkyc>
which is why you get such a massive slingshot
<Rokker>
ah
<Rokker>
cause it doesn't register the collision?
<rsparkyc>
right
<Rokker>
and so you get two massive single points of gravity flying by eachother
<pap1723>
Should we add Vesta and Ceres to RSS?
<pap1723>
We have very detailed maps and information about them because of the Dawn mission\
<soundnfury>
Pap1723: Do, or do not. There is no "we" ;)
<pap1723>
I have done all of the work for it already. I have them included in Half Size RSS
<pap1723>
I was more asking would the overall consesus be that they should be included
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<Starwaster>
stratochief, Ok, so I figure that in order to boil off 1014 kg of LH2 over a period of 2 and a half hours (2.45 really) needs about ~52 kw of heat. Then I discovered an interesting document that listed in detail the heat leakage for a stage that seems to be (some confusion here) the S-II and the numbers come out to almost exactly 52 kw.