<stratochief_>
TheKosmonaut: I've never seen anybody fly a shuttle in RSS. no shuttle parts properly configured for FAR, as I recall
<TheKosmonaut>
Yeah.
<TheKosmonaut>
Well, Bob Fitch was doing it, IIRC.
<gazpachian>
Well, hellblazer has his ongoing ISS construction series, although he rarely if ever shows reentry
<TheKosmonaut>
Hmm
<TheKosmonaut>
Felbourne hasn't posted in a long time
<TheKosmonaut>
Too bad
<taniwha>
nothing recent on youtube, either :(
<TheKosmonaut>
He did Great RSS stuff
<TheKosmonaut>
taniwha: his series has more work put into it than most people's real work.
<taniwha>
yeah
<TheKosmonaut>
It comes back to haunt him I think.
<taniwha>
I suspect RL got rather busy
<xShadowx|2>
what is this 'real work' you speak of
<xShadowx|2>
ksp is love
<xShadowx|2>
ksp is life
<gazpachian>
Busy or not, his two recent RSS series were more ambitious than one person could manage. Which is admirable of him to try, but making all your own configs, crafts and cinematics is hard work.
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<xShadowx|2>
some people have lots of free time :P
<xShadowx|2>
some people live off youtube alone
<gazpachian>
well, no one has more than 24 hours a day! :P
<xShadowx|2>
accually they can
<gazpachian>
Those that live off youtube publish often, and you only publish often if you cut down on minutes spent per minute of video
<xShadowx|2>
move away from the solar system fast enough in the right direction (retrograde around milkyway black hole) and earth would be moving faster than you and thus you can have >24 earth hours for every 24 earth hours
<xShadowx|2>
:P
<xShadowx|2>
wait milkyway also moving......gotta figure out what way that is too
<gazpachian>
nah, you'd be the one in an accelerating frame of reference
<gazpachian>
in no version of the twin paradox does the twin staying behind end up younger than the twin going on the spaceship
<xShadowx|2>
whoever moves faster, has less time pass vs the slower moving
<gazpachian>
yeah, but motion is relative
<gazpachian>
you know, relativity. If you're doing the accelerating you're the one losing out on precious hours
JeeF has joined #RO
<JeeF>
5h without internet, gotta say it's quite refreshing to take a break from tech
<gazpachian>
we were just talking about time travel, welcome back from the 90s! :D
<JeeF>
XD
<JeeF>
Hey gaz, how are you doing today?
<xShadowx|2>
in this case, im saying you, on the rocket, burning to slow down, so you experience say 25 hours, while earth experiences 24
<xShadowx|2>
JeeF: what......life...without interwebs? no thanks i dont wanna die
<JeeF>
Man I wish I had a EMP device the size of the moon... to fry all electronics around the globe and put human beings back to stone age for a few months. Maybe then people would stop staring at their damn cellphones and actually have a conversation with each other
<JeeF>
Gaz, that hand you offered to me yesterday, if it's still standing I'll accept it. If you help me write up the code for the cfg then we can toss a new pull for RO and get the ball rolling for other users.
<gazpachian>
Well, a hard tech reset would probably kill off a majority of people on earth at this point.
<JeeF>
I just flew a couple of hours with that afterburner and looks awesome
<gazpachian>
Well, throw the values my way and I'll stuff it into a patch!
<xShadowx|2>
JeeF: why an emp from the moon? problem with your lack of electronics is you dont see the news about north korea recently, plus ww3 will be here shortly and you get your wish anyways XD
<gazpachian>
current and new ones
<gazpachian>
but with some delay, I really need to hit the sack
<JeeF>
yeah take your time
<gazpachian>
half past three over here, got work tomorrow
<JeeF>
Work is overrated
<JeeF>
call in sick
<gazpachian>
they'd love that
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<gazpachian>
Well, I guess mail works to get those values, gazpachian@gmail.com
<Starwaster>
stratochief_ so I just did some editing of Heat Pumps and exactly doubled heat fluxes and guess what happened when I tried it in the game
<Starwaster>
it exactly cancelled out the incoming fluxes. So I was right.
<Starwaster>
with only a single radiator
<Starwaster>
of course I had to double the heat going to the radiator to balance it out which is fair
<stratochief_>
Starwaster: shit. well, at least that is a straightforwardish fix/workaorund
<JeeF>
ok, finally found where to change all the specific plume values
<JeeF>
I know I can just go ahead and replace direct
<JeeF>
but if I want to create a cfg to replace on the fly when loading the game
<JeeF>
can be done?
<stratochief_>
with FINAL patch(s) and MM syntax. either modifications (%) or removing the module entirely !ModuleType[ModuleName] {} and add/recreate
<stratochief_>
probably best to let gazpachian take a shot, and see how he goes about it. or, review existing RO patches to see how they go about injecting changes to configs using MM syntax
<JeeF>
one more question
<JeeF>
a second patch needs to be done to replace the plume from turbojetengine.cfg to use hydrolow-lower
<JeeF>
Can it be in the same file or has to be 2 separate files?
<stratochief_>
they can be done together. what you did the other day invoked the prefab, which generates all that MODEL_MULTI_PARTICLE_PERSIST stuff. alternatively, your patch can add those in itself, line by line
<stratochief_>
in fact, they should/need to be done together. as you'll see on the other RealPlume patches in RO, all engines so far add the plume in one patch
<JeeF>
And another little problem I've found is this. The J58 can go pretty high, at 20km up still has enough air intake to keep going. But on RO, at that altitude the gases expand a lot, so the afterburner looks really odd. Now, I can't possibly be sure if in real life that does happen or not. I want to say NO, but I can't find any concrete information either way. What do you feel?
<stratochief_>
ideally, go with sources. if you can't, go with what looks right. you can definitely change how a plume expands due to altitude/airpressure
<JeeF>
in smokescreen?
<gazpachian>
alright, one final glance at chat before bed. I've saved the file, I'll check pull requests on github for RO tomorrow and if I don't see one for the plume I'll make it. :)
<JeeF>
WAIT
<stratochief_>
that is what the "density = 1 0" type lines mean in the plume config
<JeeF>
you need a few more lines
<JeeF>
ty chief
<JeeF>
GAZ
<JeeF>
1 second
<gazpachian>
aiit
<stratochief_>
JeeF will send gazpachian an email once he has the final final version of the facts/values, right?
<JeeF>
Well if I get his cfg back and I take a look at it, I'll know how it works. From there, I can make further adjustments and then make the pull on github
<gazpachian>
alright, if you figure it out on your own be sure to PR the repo ASAP so we don't duplicate work! :P
<JeeF>
The pull request on github, is it just added to the mod or is it tested/tweaked by the people in charge of RO?
<JeeF>
Cos even tho I'm trying to help, I'm not 100% sure of what I'm doing. I'm just trying my best XD
<gazpachian>
welcome to software development, where no one has a clue
<stratochief_>
first, the creator is obligated to test the patch changes on their local machine, to config it works as they expect it to. then someone like me, SirKeplan or NathanKell|AWAY will test it ourselves to config it works in our environment
<JeeF>
lmao
<gazpachian>
anyways, nite yall
<stratochief_>
if it works as expected after being tested by a reviewer, it is added to the "master", and will be part of the next release
<stratochief_>
g'nite gazpachian, thanks for the help!
<JeeF>
gnite gaz, and thanks again for the help
<JeeF>
ty for the explanation chief
<JeeF>
Sounds good
<JeeF>
I just hope whoever decides on adding it or not happens to like the changes :)
<JeeF>
I'll save a copy of MMCC, manually replace the values here and test some more, tweak the expansion density as you said
<JeeF>
So I can have these values ready for tomorrow
<JeeF>
Do you have any clue when the next release of RO is coming?
<stratochief_>
a change like this "to make something look better and more accurate" will review positively. the only question is ensuring if the changes that you find work for you locally will work correctly when applied on everybody else's computers
<JeeF>
hopefully
<stratochief_>
JeeF: still waiting for all the pre-req mods needed for RO to have official release, last I checked. ferram4 was chasing down breaking bugs in FAR
<JeeF>
yeah, FAR is... complicated
<stratochief_>
JeeF: well, if it doesn't we'll work with you to figure out why that isn't working as expected, and hopefully fix it
<stratochief_>
as you've seen making or changing patches can be complicated, even when you've got experience with them. we're glad to when people are willing to take the time to learn and contribute :)
<JeeF>
But, from my understanding, I'm basically just modifying what Hydrolox-Lower effects look like, and they will be distributed across the board to all hydrolox engines. How do we make it that specific change to only be usable in the J58's ab?
<stratochief_>
the code you showed me yesterday took a copy of the hydrolox-lower prefab, and applied it to that specific part. that is fairly easy, which is why using prefabs is good. that will only affect that part, because you called out the part by name in the opening of the patch
<JeeF>
ahhhhhhh
<JeeF>
true true
<stratochief_>
the tricky bit gazpachian will be helping with is to further customize that prefab, or just avoid using then modifying the copy of the prefab and just create the hydrolox effect from scratch, which isn't frighteningly bad or hard, but the code will be longer and messier than using a prefab
<JeeF>
But Im assuming that once it's incorporated into RO, it won't be a patch, it will be done from scratch... or not?
<stratochief_>
the prefab is generally sufficient, because all you're saying is "copy this thing that already exists, then make it bigger or smaller this fraction and put it here relative to the nozzle"
<stratochief_>
JeeF: everything in RO is termed a 'patch', because it modifies or adds code to an existing part's code
<JeeF>
omg...
<JeeF>
must be millions of patches
<stratochief_>
tens of thousands. that is why ModuleManager reports a big number as KSP loads, and takes longer than loading stock or other mods :)
<JeeF>
Longer to load but no performance hit, I'm assuming
<JeeF>
FPS-wise
<JeeF>
cos ksp loads everything at start, not much on the fly
<JeeF>
My forte is graphic / sound design. I'd love to tackle sounds next, but for the life of me I cannot find where sound files are located in KSP
<stratochief_>
I have yet to play KSP with sound :P
<JeeF>
For example, in MMCC I see this line
<taniwha>
you're missing out on the best mod ever
<JeeF>
clip = sound_jet_deep
<stratochief_>
I'm sure someone can help answer that question, and I'm sure plenty of people have feedback and opinions about how engines sounds could/should be different
<taniwha>
chatterer :)
<JeeF>
Search for sound_jet_deep in gamedata, NOTHING
<stratochief_>
taniwha: oh, I've heard chatterer on youtube videos. I prefer my own personally selected music :)
<stratochief_>
JeeF: yeah, not sure.
<taniwha>
JeeF: have you tried looking for *.ogg?
<JeeF>
must be part of a data file that gets decompressed when loading
<JeeF>
I straight searched for the name of the file, doesn't exist
<JeeF>
but it's quite comon for games to have all sound effects compressed in one data file
<stratochief_>
JeeF: true. but external audio files can probably be patched in, somehow
<JeeF>
take world of warcraft. Game is 18gb, but if you open the folder you find only 4 or 5 data files
<TheKosmonaut>
taniwha: iirc he works for Blizzard so he's probably been very busy with all of their doings.
<JeeF>
he who?
<taniwha>
Bob Fitch
<stratochief_>
BobFitch
<TheKosmonaut>
Though, I think he specifically works on some number crunching stuff for Hearthstone so I don't know
<stratochief_>
iirc, he is always waiting for an official RO for 1.2
<stratochief_>
*also waiting
<TheKosmonaut>
I just miss the plethora of stargate and Star Trek sfx in KSP
<TheKosmonaut>
I should do that.
<JeeF>
I've worked for 3 years in a videogame developer/publisher, it's brutal
<stratochief_>
TheKosmonaut: "make it so"
<JeeF>
went as far as 88 hours per week during launch deadlines
<stratochief_>
when will companies learn; rush code is shit code
<TheKosmonaut>
stratochief_: employ the CDPR method, shit tons of developers for little money but a lot of time!
<TheKosmonaut>
Time in this case being a long development cycle
<JeeF>
thank god I didn't work in the coding development department... I'll probably be boo'd to say this in a room like this, but I HATE coding with a blinding passion. What I love is creative work
<TheKosmonaut>
BOOOOOOOOO
<TheKosmonaut>
nah
<TheKosmonaut>
Everyone has a role in game dev, creative dept is one of the most important.
<stratochief_>
JeeF: what if I told you... code -is- creative work too?
<TheKosmonaut>
stratochief_: I think he means art and design specifically
<JeeF>
well yeah I know, definitely creative
<TheKosmonaut>
Inb4 code is art
<JeeF>
I worked in content creation
<JeeF>
not specifically art or design
<JeeF>
but everything
<JeeF>
manager role. "Associate Producer", they brand it
<JeeF>
sounds fancy, but basically means you have excel spreadsheets open 24/7 in front of you across your 3 monitors
<TheKosmonaut>
Excel.. the great equalizer
<JeeF>
studying data, see what sells and what doesn't, and make it sell more
<JeeF>
used to love the videogame industry before I joined SmileGate. Now I hate it.
<JeeF>
It's never about the people, only about profit
<JeeF>
Not that I didn't care about the profit, I know it's important. But I also think it's bloody important to have your clients damn well satisfied with your company and your product. And anytime I tried to create an event or promotion or add new content that had the purpose of pleasing the players, I was constantly shot down cos it wouldn't generate revenue
<JeeF>
Eventually I burned down and quit
<JeeF>
It's cancer
<taniwha>
I suspect you're not quite right: it's not just all about profit. it's all about profit with no work
<stratochief_>
JeeF tells the best good night stores. remind me to keep you away from the kids :P
<stratochief_>
taniwha points out rent seeking behaviour: it's super effective!
<JeeF>
hahaha
<JeeF>
But hey
<JeeF>
I'm not talking about ALL videogame companies. I won't judge what I don't know. I can only say that about SmileGate
<JeeF>
Squad seems to me quite decent
<JeeF>
And I'd love to work for them
<JeeF>
But they are too far :)
<stratochief_>
Squad... has had its issues. said issues led to about half of the developers leaving about half a year ago, including our own NathanKell
rsparkyc has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<taniwha>
and me
<JeeF>
Wasn't aware of it
<JeeF>
what happened?
<taniwha>
sorry, can't say
<JeeF>
ah the good old confidentiality contract
<taniwha>
true, but even without it, it would feel wrong to me
<taniwha>
I will say this though: Squad was not the worst place I've worked
<stratochief_>
JeeF: people worked there. unsatisfied with enough of the things that go into working somewhere, ???, many people decided to not work there
<taniwha>
(and generally wasn't too bad)
<stratochief_>
taniwha: fair enough. that is at least good to hear :)
<JeeF>
hmm...
<JeeF>
well you've got me itchying with curiosity all over now, lol. But I'll just stay out of it
<JeeF>
really thought Squad was a nice place to work
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<rsparkyc>
wow, just got of reddit…did you see about hazard-ish?
<stratochief_>
rsparkyc: no. who/what is that. animal, vegetable, mineral?
<JeeF>
lol, who da funk gives a shit if someone "cheats" in an offline game?
<stratochief_>
this is why I don't claim to be playing/recording videos purely
<rsparkyc>
apparently a lot of people care
<stratochief_>
I do my best to play my RP-0 series continuiously. but crashes or various bugs get pushed under the rug or cause me to have to load from backups/hack my save
<JeeF>
humans never cease to surprise me
<stratochief_>
rsparkyc: did he, *sun glasses* fake a munlanding?
<rsparkyc>
apparently, actually yes
<stratochief_>
well, go figure. did he have support or help from squad? was it an 'inside job' ?
<rsparkyc>
would you consider the cheat menu help from squad or an inside job?
<stratochief_>
maybe, because it fits my consipiracy narrative :P
<rsparkyc>
but when your title says "Believe it or not, this is the first SSTO I've taken to Laythe so I thought I would do it in style- using a fully stock VTOL tilt-wing space-plane, capable of getting to Laythe and back without refueling!", you expect it to actually be stock
<stratochief_>
indeed
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<taniwha>
I took a stock+FAR SSTO plane to laythe
<taniwha>
crashed there because it was unstable :(
<taniwha>
(back in my first few months of playing KSP)
* stratochief_
tips glass to taniwha
stratochief_ is now known as stratochief
<JeeF>
I personally think if an idiot wants to upload a video of him being an idiot, it's the people's choice to watch it. Idk... none of this makes any sense to me. I don't subscribe to anything in youtube, other than Veritasium, Vsauce and a couple other science channels. All this bullshit with millions of people following an idiot doing stupid things and even donating money to the guy just... blows my mid
<stratochief>
I rage-quit stock when I first landed on Duna, and the ladders were so broke that my crew couldn't climb back up to the capsule
<stratochief>
JeeF: eh, a person lots of people pay attention to misrepresented the nature of their work. upsetness follows
<stratochief>
ahh, that is what those are for. LK = tiny soviet lander, right?
<stratochief>
Raidernick: nice, so, original models? they look nice :)
<Raidernick>
i just made them
<Raidernick>
like the past couple hours
<Raidernick>
they are to replace my old LK ones
<Raidernick>
which were just grey buckets
<Raidernick>
literally a grey bucket
<stratochief>
lol. well, those far exceed the quality of a grey bucket
<stratochief>
alright, sleep all. o/
<taniwha>
Raidernick: very pretty :)
NathanKell|AWAY is now known as NathanKell
<taniwha>
NathanKell: o/
blowfish has joined #RO
<NathanKell>
o/
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<xShadowx|2>
o/
* xShadowx|2
pokes egg
<xShadowx|2>
poor egg always seem to miss you nowadays :P
<xShadowx|2>
timezones suck x.x
<taniwha>
well, he's been fried, boiled, scrambled, poached, beaten...
<blowfish>
probably hunted too as of Sunday
<xShadowx|2>
i painted him sunday
<taniwha>
that too
<taniwha>
(no Easter here, so I forget about it often)
<xShadowx|2>
o.o
<xShadowx|2>
whats it canadia? forgot
<taniwha>
Japan
<xShadowx|2>
ah ya
<taniwha>
I'm from Canada
<xShadowx|2>
i just saw a thing on tv
<xShadowx|2>
some island with worlds oldest people
<xShadowx|2>
dude was 107
<xShadowx|2>
island in japan*
<xShadowx|2>
i was like......if thats how i look by 107 im commiting suicide young :P
<taniwha>
I'm more worried about physical and mental mobility than looks
<AndChat151956>
don't go gently into that good night brother
<xShadowx|2>
id rather avoid mental mobility
<xShadowx|2>
keep that mental bit inside
<taniwha>
mental mobility = ability to think, remember, etc
<xShadowx|2>
if it escapes you dont get it back :|
<AndChat151956>
take care of your body
<AndChat151956>
your mind is your body
<AndChat151956>
my uncle is 88 and still hikes 14,000 fters regularly
<AndChat151956>
where as my grandpa took shit care of himself and went crazy in his 70
<AndChat151956>
died by 85
<xShadowx|2>
is he rich and sitting on someones shoulders with 20+ guys carrying supplies behind?
<xShadowx|2>
every mountain i see with climbers, is a rich dude, with 20 guys carrying him up ;/ like wth
<AndChat151956>
have you ever been to a crag?
<AndChat151956>
xD
<xShadowx|2>
i dont even get the point in that......how is it 'them' climbing when theyre literally paying dudes to carry em up
Thufir has joined #RO
<Thufir>
surely you've been an e-citizen long enough to understand the human lust for ego stroking
<xShadowx|2>
whats ego? i only seen e-peen stroking
<Thufir>
the RL version that money can't buy, only hard work, which some people never figure out
<Thufir>
most 14k's have hiking paths that never hit 5.0
<Thufir>
thats not climbing
<Thufir>
and most of the rich folk laddien up icy heights isn't climbing either
<Thufir>
you can't buy your way into being a good climber, only physical and mental training can get you there
<xShadowx|2>
my version of climbing would be use brain > build drone > fly self up :)
<Thufir>
it's only dangerous if you're an idiot :P
<Thufir>
when your rope holds an SUV easy
<xShadowx|2>
if darwin wanted me to use effort, he wouldnt have given me a brain :)
<Thufir>
you have to be a special kind of stupid
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<xShadowx|2>
or buy parts made in china ;3
<Thufir>
*
<Thufir>
*1. Not liable for product failure
<Thufir>
ヽ(/͠°ᴥ┐͡ ͠°)ﾉ
<xShadowx|2>
i mean i have accually seen some climbing gear, looks like steel and all good right? drop it a few feet on concrete and shatters......nooooooot supposed to do that
<Thufir>
well if you're placing your own gear it's all about redundency
<Thufir>
you place a piece of gear every couple meters
<Thufir>
sure you fucked up 1 it fails user error 2nd one defect fails
<Thufir>
if they all fail
<xShadowx|2>
i dont do effort, i fly up :P
<Thufir>
well GG WP god :P
<Thufir>
xD
<xShadowx|2>
Thufir: s/god/darwin
<Qboid>
xShadowx|2 thinks Thufir meant to say: well GG WP darwin :P
<Thufir>
it's not about getting to the top it's about being faced with a physical and mental challenge, being forced to adapt and dawrin your way the fuck out of it
<Thufir>
and how much fun it is when you figure it out
<Thufir>
:D
<xShadowx|2>
mental challenge of how to complete without physical challenge :P
<Thufir>
and most impotently, how that makes you stronger in mind and body, how it increases your chances of survival for as long as possible
<Thufir>
:D the mental potential surpasses any physical task our weak bodies could do
* taniwha
suspects xShadowx|2 wouldn't last five minutes in a post-apocalyptic world
<taniwha>
I might last 10
<xShadowx|2>
taniwha: have the skill and the mental abilities, muscles no, so mental abilities tell me to get gun, and go places away from people :P
<Thufir>
the brain is part of your body, and to keep it preforming to max capacity for as long as possible you have to keep your body in good condition. solving puzzles like climbing to take the place of tedious repetitive exercises is the only way i've ever been able to keep my brain consistently healthy x
<Thufir>
xD
<xShadowx|2>
taniwha: play any post apoc games?
<Thufir>
brother
<Thufir>
stalker misery dark mode black road :P
<Thufir>
@xShadowx|2 if you're into post apoc please tell me you've played misery xD
<xShadowx|2>
im mostly zombie apoc survival games, and always with pvp mode ;3 dont know many games for non zombie post apoc
<Thufir>
aah yeah i feel that other than 200 mod RO/skyrim and misery i am always a pvp guy
<xShadowx|2>
never heard of it :P
<Thufir>
you've never even cheeki brikki'd?
<Thufir>
:O
<xShadowx|2>
725 mod ksp, about 50 mod zomboid, 20 mod 7dtd, and some civ5 with cctp mod
<Thufir>
if you like super in deptj rpg first person shooter
<Thufir>
725
<xShadowx|2>
sadly no pvp in ksp :(
<Thufir>
so you're load time
<Thufir>
is about
<Thufir>
9001 minutes? :3
<xShadowx|2>
3 minutes and only on first load, after that instant
<Thufir>
did something magical happen that i missed in the past 8 months i've been gone?
<xShadowx|2>
a unicorn farted
<Thufir>
even fully part cleanred
<Thufir>
you're fucking with me
<xShadowx|2>
nope
<taniwha>
he deleted GameData/Squad/KSPedia, I bet
<xShadowx|2>
go delete just kspedia, and look at the time saved :P
<xShadowx|2>
damn you ninja
<taniwha>
bwahaha :P
<Thufir>
i havent played 1.2 yet
* taniwha
thinks "wha..." then looks and channel name
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<xShadowx|2>
i also went through every part i installed, picking exactly what i kept, everything unique ish, no 2948428 cylinder tanks :P
<taniwha>
and then realizes you're not enjoying my efforts with KSP's orbits (and NK's efforts with the physics integration)
<xShadowx|2>
taniwha: not my fault people keep making things to add to ksp and steal away from playtime!
<xShadowx|2>
but no, i accually played a nice 16 hr stretch on sunday, including filling mars colony with people :D
<Thufir>
yeah I clean every build before I run it xD and use as few engine models as possible with meni cfgs for dif fuel types modeled to RL or RL planned engines to lower count that extra few, procederal everything unless it is cosmetically impossible without a dedicated part
<xShadowx|2>
definately love how i can goto 3k+ parts in 1.2
<Thufir>
wait wtf
<Thufir>
jesus
<Thufir>
brb *downloading 1.2*
<taniwha>
dunno about 3k+, but it's certainly better than 1.1
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<xShadowx|2>
yar
<blowfish>
I can't help but wonder how much caching could be done to save load time on KSP
<taniwha>
Thufir: stable orbits and stable encounter info should be nice too
<xShadowx|2>
i couldve prolly hit higher if i got 7700k cpu, less cores more speed, but meh
<taniwha>
blowfish: dunno, but KSP loads fairly quickly here (64GB memory + linux (very good caching))
<Thufir>
i took a good long break last summer 2k hrs into my full IVA titan/saturn system RealISRU/EPL colinization after landing gear bugs amongst others triggered my productivity patients hardcore
<blowfish>
I know Linux does a fair bit of file caching in memory, but isn't a lot of it CPU time?
<Thufir>
open GL FPS tho
<blowfish>
i.e. part loader doesn't even hit disk I don't think
<xShadowx|2>
blowfish: biggest thing i wondered/wanted is what about serialize part database, and save to file, then reload that? sounds like an MM thing though, as it knows when to recreate all
<taniwha>
blowfish: there /is/ a lot of cpu time, but it still makes a noticeable difference even with SSD
<Thufir>
i do all ship dev on linux and play mission mode on windows for FPS
<xShadowx|2>
parts are already setup to be serialized
<blowfish>
I know Unity has built in JSON and XML serializers, not sure how well those work for model and texture data
<xShadowx|2>
and we can see the cpu bottleneck of first start vs 2nd (MM cache), so if it instead loads the serialized part from file.....
<xShadowx|2>
models/textures load quick
<taniwha>
XML... I'd rather use Windows on a daily basis
<blowfish>
I'd actually be curious to see what MM spends most of its time doing
<taniwha>
probably rewriting config nodes
<xShadowx|2>
loops of loops of loops to ya
<xShadowx|2>
:P
<taniwha>
(ie, in-memory editing of them)
<blowfish>
dunno, I wouldn't be surprised if it's just lookup of root nodes
<blowfish>
(and iteration through)
<blowfish>
since, for a very modded install, there are a large number of root nodes that virtually every patch has to iterate through
<blowfish>
it's possible that some initial treeification could speed things up a bit
<taniwha>
that's what the MM cache is for
<blowfish>
(i.e. separate PART, INTERNAL, RESOURCE_DEFINITION nodes)
<taniwha>
but it still has to replace the config nodes in-memory once loaded
<taniwha>
also, it checks the integrity of its cache
<xShadowx|2>
vast majority of root nodes are PART though
<xShadowx|2>
or PART + MM
<xShadowx|2>
i could see MM patch nodes could clog and slow it scanning parts
<blowfish>
separating out the patch nodes to begin with could maybe also save some time
<xShadowx|2>
assuming it doesnt
<xShadowx|2>
but then again, cache skips all that, so you're just helping the first startup
<blowfish>
yeah, assuming you don't change anything
<xShadowx|2>
or some mod doesnt edit its settings file :P
<blowfish>
read: some mod author needs to be yelled at
<xShadowx|2>
i went months not knowing MM cache was there all because CLS edited a settings file
<blowfish>
I think mods have gotten better about that lately though
<xShadowx|2>
i think was CLS, too long ago :P
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* egg
pokes NathanKell|AFK with a stick
* xShadowx|2
pokes egg with a better timezone
<acharles>
ha
<acharles>
The more I learn about the SLS, the more I wonder why it’s not done yet. :P
<Ezko>
money
<Rokker>
acharles: because we arent russia
<Rokker>
god forbid we take our time and try to make the safest vehicle possible
<TheKosmonaut>
>America
<TheKosmonaut>
>safe launch vehicles
* xShadowx|2
launches TheKosmonaut into the sun
<TheKosmonaut>
That is a lot of delta v
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<acharles>
Hehe.
<acharles>
It’s using existing 30 year old technology, though.
<acharles>
If congress mandated that it reuse shuttle technology, that’s either because they want to benefit existing vendors and give them more money (go lobbying) or they want to benefit from using well known technology (which probably wouldn’t take as much time or money).
<acharles>
Perhaps both.
<acharles>
And unlike the space shuttle or their one of their competitors, the stuff they launch doesn’t have to be rated for multiple flights.
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<TheKosmonaut>
acharles: the argument is made that it provides jobs.
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<Theysen>
hallo
<Qboid>
Theysen: rsparkyc left a message for you in #RO [16.04.2017 01:51:36]: "I haven't noticed the double contract issue before, but i'll keep an eye out for it"
<Theysen>
!tell rsparkyc, seems fixed now for me as stated in the issue. Strange thing
<Qboid>
Theysen: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Rokker>
acharles: its not really as simple as 30 year old technology
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<acharles>
Rokker: So, SLS has been ‘funded’ since 2011 with over $1bn per year and hasn’t launched a rocket yet. That’s 6ish years between then and now. Space X went from not existing to launching a rocket to orbit in 6 years, from scratch. I’m not trying to suggest it’s easy. I wouldn’t suggest that SLS and Space X are even remotely comparable. But 6 years and $6-10 bn are quite a lot of money and when coupled to the requirement to
<acharles>
reuse shuttle technology, I suppose I would’ve expected a launch by now.
<acharles>
But hey, it’s just something that amuses me.
<Rokker>
acharles: remind me how long they have been working on falcon heavy
<Rokker>
and "reused tech" doesn't mean all that much in the grand scheme of things
<Rokker>
real life isn't KSP. stuff isn't just that simplw
<Rokker>
acharles: and spacex has been trying to get to manned mission capabilities for, what, 13 years now? and where are they? delaying manned launch another year.
<taniwha>
making flying bombs reliable enough to ethically put people atop is no simple matter
<taniwha>
(maybe "ethically" should have quotes in there, but I was stuck for words)
<Rokker>
taniwha: yeah. the falcon 1 is pretty damn far from a man rated super heavy launcher
<taniwha>
the idea being that you really really really don't want those people dieing due to launch failure
<TheKosmonaut>
So they have been around for fifteen years, their first launch (that was successful) was in 2009, right?
<Rokker>
08
<TheKosmonaut>
taniwha: I am a fan of SpaceX and I would never ride a falcon to orbit. Not that I qualify.
<taniwha>
TheKosmonaut: I know what you mean, though
<TheKosmonaut>
Rokker: I mean first paid launch, not counting ratsat.
<TheKosmonaut>
But I guess 2008 is the better answer.
<TheKosmonaut>
taniwha: basically, now that these commercial companies are in the game, we are probably gonna see a lot more corner cutting to milk nickels and dimes.
<taniwha>
maybe. failure /is/ rather expensive, so the best way to nickel and dime may (paradoxically) be to not nickel and dime
<taniwha>
I suspect it will be a long time before reliability costs more than failure
<taniwha>
(or even a significant portion)
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<ThisDay>
April 20: Astronaut Don Pettit is born in 1955. IBM is selected to build the Saturn family's instrument units in 1964. In 1979, the top of two TKS-VA capsules fires its LES when its Proton launcher's engines shutdown before liftoff, the capsule is destroyed when the parachutes fail to deploy. A 1997 launch of a Chinese FSW spy sat is rumored to have failed.
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<zilti>
stratochief: Apparently the problem was that I also connected some solid-fuel ullage thingies to the thrust plate (directly, not to the engine nodes)
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<zilti>
Now the problem that's left is re-entry... Apoapsis is 176 km, Periapsis -255 km, and my vessel burns up before it even gets to the point where the plasma effects would occur. 2.5m heatshield, weight including heatshield is a couple kilos over one ton. Real Heat and Deadly Reentry.
<Theysen>
try 35km for periapsis, make sure your heatshield isn't attached directly to anything with lower heat tolerance. is it a probe or manned?
<zilti>
Just a probe on a suborbital trajectory. The heatshield is attached to a service bay, but the whole vessel just kinda blows up in a matter of two seconds nonetheless.
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<Theysen>
might send a pic zilti ? :)
<zilti>
Theysen: I'm at work now and the vessel at home, but will do when I get home later :)
<Theysen>
okay :) service bay sounds quite big for a simple reentry probe and it *sounds* like it won't stand anything
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<TheKosmonaut>
stratochief: I was trolling, i honestly didnt expect shoe to agree w/ me
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<stratochief>
well, not surprising, some people on #SpaceX are trump level ignorant. *shrug*
<Theysen>
"42923 patches loaded from cache" this is better than a mars round trip
<rsparkyc>
is the owner of the "SpaceIsKindOfCool" youtube channel in the IRC?
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: Theysen left a message for you in #RO [20.04.2017 08:23:26]: "seems fixed now for me as stated in the issue. Strange thing"
<rsparkyc>
first youtube video i've seen using procedural avionics
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: not that I'm aware of, I haven't seen a parson that claims that fame/name
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<Theysen>
oh I saw his reddit posts but I gladly skip complete livestreams somehow. I use this new proc avionics all the time now
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i need to make a 1.2.2 youtube series
<rsparkyc>
was hoping to get an official release out first
<rsparkyc>
nudge ferram4
<stratochief>
ferram4 sqished a bunch of FAR bugs before the easter break. not sure if a release is impending or if new terrible bugs have appeared
<rsparkyc>
yeah, i saw some recent commits
<ferram4>
Currently FAR is in the "wait and see if new terrible bugs appear" stage, and so far things look good.
<stratochief>
ferram4: yep. the most recent version has worked well for me. I've encouraged a few people to test the most recent version and they also reported back positively
<ferram4>
Likely the last thing I'll do is add a small feature request that taniwha asked for (ability to define parts that don't trigger revoxelization on animations, for things like lights), which should be real quick to test.
<ferram4>
Once that's in, release time.
<stratochief>
although, we're generally testing general play. I haven't tried the stock drill, for example
<stratochief>
ferram4: awesome! :)
<rsparkyc>
exciting!
<stratochief>
although we won't hold you to that, because... things happen, bugs appear
<ferram4>
Oh, that was fixed.
<Theysen>
rsparkyc, yeah I will upload my stuff also after official release I think
<Theysen>
although it was recorded during prerelease who shall know ;)
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: I have also used the hell out of ProcAvionics, I just haven't had time to record recently
<rsparkyc>
cool, glad to hear that people are using it
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<HypergolicSkunk>
ProcAvionics is a thing now?
<Theysen>
repurposed proc tank :P
<Theysen>
but the math and logic behind is is gut
<Theysen>
*it
<HypergolicSkunk>
I cannot wait to stream my new RP-0 career
<HypergolicSkunk>
even if most of the time I don't exceed 5 viewers :p
<Theysen>
is Testflight easier on the nerves these days? I barely had a failure.. (except first Soyuz launch to the Mars transfer vehicle, RIP Bobby Sergej and Vasil :( )
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<Starwaster>
stratochief, are you in any position to test builds yet?
<stratochief>
Starwaster: depends on the time horizon you need feedback on. possibly tonight, or the weekend. what needs testing?
<stratochief>
I am no longer on vacation, if that is the root of the question
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<egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a signalling ネコバス
<egg>
NomalRaptor: I hope stratochief has documented his code
<xShadowx|2>
whats an easy at home way to make oxygen? besides water+battery, something with chemicals
<Starwaster>
latest build of Real FUels
<rsparkyc>
i know grant thompson did hydrogen with drain cleaner, not sure about oxygen
<rsparkyc>
other then electrolysis
<stratochief>
Starwaster: I don't see anything available on Github, but I may have missed something. testing for what? boiloff or themal changes?
<Starwaster>
boiloff during analytical mode testing
<Starwaster>
nothing is pushed yet
<Starwaster>
It's been through too many changes to push anything
<stratochief>
Starwaster: gotcha. should I prep a basic for comparison? any particular results I should be expecting/testing for?
<Starwaster>
I've been running through a shitload of code and rejecting it as it comes up wanting
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: hydrogen peroxide reduction? intern suggests bleach may be helpful for that
<stratochief>
*internet. I currently have no interns :P
<stratochief>
egg: those crazy characters, though
<Starwaster>
Something along the lines of the SIVB makes a good test bed
<stratochief>
Starwaster: alright, sounds good. that is what I frequently use for testing :) I'll make one from proc parts, since those generally behave well. never quite know with the FASA parts
<xShadowx|2>
stratochief: hydrogen peroxide is what im thinkin, but the stuff at the store is all very low % lol
<Starwaster>
though I'm not quite sure what the boiloff was, historically. I've seen it cited between 315kg - 1200 kg during a parking orbit prior to lunar injection
<Starwaster>
OhioBob's website has it as 1.2 tons over 2.5 hour parking orbit
<stratochief>
xShadowx|2: they make and sell stronger peroxide concentrations. 8BitGuy uses peroxide cream, which is used for hair things I think?
<Starwaster>
I usually find his data reliable and that's the figure I usually go by but lately I'm not as sure
<Starwaster>
too bad he doesn't hang out in here
<stratochief>
Starwaster: that seems like a reasonable figure to aim for. that sounds like a design goal so that the Saturn V could survive 2-3 orbits for checkout if necessary before TLI
<xShadowx|2>
a lot of the world should hang out in here :P
<stratochief>
Starwaster: poke me when you've got a dll you'd like a second set of eyes testing. I should be able to perform a test withing 24-48 hours on it, and someone else here might be nice enough to give us a third set as well :)
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<Starwaster>
ok
<Starwaster>
as soon as I nail down what's clamping my temps to 90.15K
<Starwaster>
which is a really suspicious number
<stratochief>
is that.. liquid oxygen?
<Starwaster>
I was clamping to lowest resource temp but I ripped all that OUT
<Starwaster>
yeah. LOX
<Starwaster>
oops. I might not have copied over the latest dll to my testing folders
<Starwaster>
Is that important do you think?
<stratochief>
what if you set it up as two seperate tanks, one for LOX, one for LH2? isn't that slightly more realistic than what we'd expect in a combined ProcTank tank
<stratochief>
Starwaster: lol, yeah, that sounds like it could be problematic
<stratochief>
not as obvious to notice as the people who load up with two MM's, and get text over text while loading
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<Starwaster>
which is something that isn't supposed to be possible given that older versions of MM are supposed to disable themselves
<xShadowx|2>
Starwaster: set post build action to copy dll for you, so much nicer in life :P
<Starwaster>
that's on my to do list
<Starwaster>
for like the past month
<Starwaster>
I still haven't obtained the necessary round tuit.
<xShadowx|2>
if older MM, and it should disable....what if 2 MM sme version? neither is older :)
<rsparkyc>
how do you have 2 of the same version?
<rsparkyc>
i always have mine in the root of GameData
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<stratochief>
rsparkyc: silly copy-paste people. if you download multiple mods that come bundled with MM, and put them in your Gamedata folder in a funky way, it can happen
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<stratochief>
Geez, I've just finally gotten through reading and reviewing my collaborator's work from the past few weeks. As soon as the week ends, another week just shows up and fills your IN box :P
<stratochief>
Energy/Climate policy is fun like that. Really, I imagine it is true for most work that "another week tends to follow each week as it ends"
<acharles>
Yes, occasionally that does happen to be as well.
<acharles>
s/be/me/
<Qboid>
acharles meant to say: Yes, occasionally that does happen to me as well.
<stratochief>
o/ acharles. haven't seen your name in a while
<acharles>
I usually have this window on another ‘desktop’ on my mac
<stratochief>
interesting. I'm generally remoting into this computer, so I also sometimes don't see comments for a while
<zilti>
stratochief: why rad? :P That's my crappy lander that burns up in the atmosphere. Vertical velocity -180m/s
<stratochief>
zilti: it has radiators on it, doesn't it? also, which part burns? the shield, or some component behind the shield
<Theysen>
zilti, yeah try switching to a procedural structural part and put your rest atop of that
<zilti>
stratochief: Everything burns :\
<zilti>
Including the heatshield
<Theysen>
I believe the service bay can't stand being directly behind the heatshield and burns up. Check the logs which part fails first
<zilti>
Ok, so an empty procedural fuselage can be used to insulate it?
<stratochief>
could be a bad drag cube as well. the service bay may be crazy like that, with FAR believing it is sticking out from behind the shield.
<Theysen>
yes
<Theysen>
exactly
<stratochief>
actually, I don't see FAR on your side bar, and you've got a crazy ton of mods
<zilti>
stratochief: I do have FAR installed though. Maybe it isn't working right?
<zilti>
This time it tilted though and the bay burned up first.
<stratochief>
zilti: double check that you can find a FAR icon in game; vab or flight
<zilti>
Nope, no FAR icon
<stratochief>
zilti: what I generally for a re-entry vehicle like that is use a small proc tank as my core, contianing RCS fuel and battery. I apply science to the outside of that, ensuring they stay tucked Well within the area of the heatshield
<stratochief>
zilti: try scrolling up or down on that side bar, tiny tick mark on the bottom. no FAR, then probably you goofed installing it, or it is conflicting with the umpteen other mods you have there
<Theysen>
when you build your complete rocket replica with procedural tanks, shielded... why..
<stratochief>
Theysen: LOL. to simulate soviet stronk over-engineering?
<Theysen>
is it heavier?? actually my soyuz values come exactly into the correct areas
<Theysen>
Aimes for 99.6t and I have 99.8 for the first stage
<Theysen>
wow
<zilti>
stratochief: Yeah, no FAR :P Would've been surprised, because I tilted my rocket once and it didn't disintegrate, unlike the last install
<stratochief>
Theysen: is what heavier? I believe shielded tanks are heavier than dry mass
<zilti>
I cut down on mods considerably, though
* stratochief
shakes his head at zilti in disappointment
<zilti>
:(
<stratochief>
Use mods. Not too many. Mostly plants.
<zilti>
stratochief: Yeah, forgot the fins at first...
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<github>
[RealismOverhaul] raidernick pushed 6 new commits to master: https://git.io/v9v07