<stratochief|AFK>
Pap1723: PhineasFreak. but plenty of various contributors, like NathanKell and I
<stratochief|AFK>
research the real price (as best you can) first, source it. prices are such that a KSP credit is $1000 in 1965 value, break down the cost of the components of a stage or rocket as best you can estimate
<stratochief|AFK>
if something similar already exists, best to copy or start from that
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<pap1723>
stratochief|AFK, there are some notes like 1/20th entryCost and things like that, is that something that you were trying to stick to?
<stratochief|AFK>
Pap1723: depending on which number we could source, yeah. if we could find what the total development cost of a launcher was, 1/20th is a good price per rocket. similarly, if we can find what the cost of purchasing/making a single instance of a launcher was, then 20x is a good estimate for the development cost
<stratochief|AFK>
some things will be different than that, like science misssions where only 1 or 2 instances were made. 20x the cost of a Viking mission is probably a bit high for an estimate of the total cost of developing Viking, for example
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<rsparkyc>
i thought we fixed the issue where the fairings would get misaligned on the launchpad
<rsparkyc>
i remember autostruts giving headaches, but i don't have autostruts on
<acc>
damn. second stage engine failure. some nice burning up over the atlantic. that's where the reentry particle mod shines heh
<acc>
rsparkyc: hadn't had that yet. only entire vehicle on clamps when revert to launch
<TM1978m>
acc was it an igniton failure?
<acc>
TM1978m: no, shutdown while burning
<acc>
on a AJ10-104D
<TM1978m>
ahh premature shut down
<acc>
heh
<acc>
was mission number 13, so it had to fail
<TM1978m>
thats always fun
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<TM1978m>
why does the AJ10-104d sound frimiller?
<TonyC>
I wonder if a story where humanity would be left scavenging their own remains on a galactic scale as the heat death of the universe happens would be a good scenario
<TM1978m>
hmm not sure, I have often thought about a retrun to earth Scenario, kind of like the 100 in space engineers
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<lamont>
RIP jeb
<TM1978m>
what did you do to poor jeb now?
<lamont>
he died of a poisonous atmosphere because i ran out of eC, and then the capsule with his body in it crashed somewhere in Chad because i couldn’t even convince MJ to properly fire the chutes
<lamont>
clearly after that success its time to launch a Saturn IB at^H^Hto the Moon…
<TM1978m>
so you killed him then you blow up his body in afraca no less..... way to hid that you killed an astronught lol
<acc>
same vehicle launched again. success!
<acc>
the AJ10 behaved nicely this time
<pap1723>
I just launched my third Apollo 4. It is getting expensive for the first 2 failures!
<TM1978m>
I thought the AJ10 was a fairly realiable engine?
<acc>
TM1978m: it is
<acc>
just failed that one time
<acc>
s/just/only/
<Qboid>
acc meant to say: only failed that one time
<pap1723>
I am going with the Soviet approach of naming, so if it fails, we just forget it happened and name the next craft the same until successful!
<pap1723>
Anyone know return velocities from the Moon?
<TM1978m>
what is that rocket based on?
<acc>
TM1978m: you mean a real life rocket?
<TM1978m>
yeah it looks kind of like a vanguard
<acc>
I had no special rocket in mind
<acc>
I call it Blackhat I
<TM1978m>
they it dont look maned
<acc>
nope. no capsule researched yet
<acc>
it's 1953 in my game heh
<TM1978m>
probly why it looks so much like a vangared theres only so many ways tobuild a rocket in the 50s
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<acc>
still ahed of time in rocketry
<acc>
I would like to do some x planes
<acc>
but not sure about wheels, surfaces and the glitchyness of the runway in RSS
<acc>
anyone done planes in RSS lately and can tell?
<acc>
or lets put it that way: should I attach gear or chutes? :>
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<TwistedMinds>
is there a mod allowing us to relaunch airplane we landed instead of scrapping it and having to rebuild?
<pap1723>
TwistedMinds, doesn's Stage Recovery have that functionality?
<TwistedMinds>
hah maybe, haven't really looked at it, thank you
<stratochief|AFK>
the AJ10 can become a reliable engine, if you get lots of experience in it
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<TwistedMinds>
Pap1723, seems SR only gives you a refund for recovering stages, I want it the plane to be sent back into 'storage' with KCT. Thanks for suggesting it though :D
<pap1723>
Strange, I thought that SR and KCT worked together to be able to do that exact thing
<pap1723>
According to the KCT KSP forum post: Recover and reuse the EXACT same plane or rocket. SSTO's and planes now can be refuelled and reused in much less time than building a new one. Just open up the KCT menu after landing and click the Recover Active Vessel button. Not all parts may work properly, so you may need to add to the list of modules to get reset. Warning: KSP isn't really designed for this, and weird things can happen. Report
<Qboid>
[#82] title: Known Recover To Storage Issues | A list of situations that are known to cause problems with this code:... | https://github.com/magico13/KCT/issues/82
<TwistedMinds>
ooohh, recover through KCT's menu, got it :> i'll try it
<TwistedMinds>
It works, I love you so much Pap1723
<pap1723>
great to hear
<pap1723>
can always use more love
<pap1723>
HAs anyone had any Deadly Reentry issues in 1.2.2?
<pap1723>
It is not burning off any of my Ablator and instead I am blowing up
<lamont>
it just worked for me
<lamont>
v7.5.0 on ckan
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<stratochief>
could be that one of you has RealHeat, while the other doesn't ?
<pap1723>
I have both, I deleted my Deadly Reentry install and now it all works correctly
<pap1723>
I'll try again tomorrow to reinstall it
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<lamont>
RealHeat v4.4, again from ckan
<acc>
stratochief: yeah, havn't used it much yet. 5 launches maybe
<TM1978m>
isnt DR redondt with real heat?
<stratochief>
Starwaster could better explain the specific functions that remain with DRE, and not with other mods (if he is around). but I know DRE will give you some warning that you are approaching damage using fire before destruction, and it also includes the heatshields for LEO (or is it Lunar) use in RP-0
<Starwaster>
pap1723 if your heat shield is not ablating then there's something wrong with the config for it. You know the drill, logs and ModuleManager.ConfigCache. The cache will tell me what the problem is and the log will tell me why.
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<Starwaster>
but I'll go out on a limb and say that a non-DRE mod config is what's at fault. Either because it's using a DRE heat shield config styled for KSP 0.90 or older or because it's configured for a different resource than what that part carries
<pap1723>
OK Starwaster I'll get you the relevant info tomorrow
<stratochief>
a bit harsher than absolutely necessary. if that person can recompile tweakscale, or fix whatever abhorent issue within tweakscale is biting him, he should be encourage to PR a fix to tweakscale. I hear the code is garbage, and it won't get any better without PRs from fools who keep trying to use it
<stratochief>
people have been complaining about tweakscale being buggy and breaking things literally since I picked up KSP. maybe we should just add a MM trick in RO so that it renames all parts to UNINSTALLTWEAKSCALE if that mod is found?
<stratochief>
I agree that being able to arbitrarily rescale parts -would- be nice, but having a broken buggy mod that claims to do that hanging around forever is worse than not having it at all
<blowfish>
I just PM'ed pellinor about fixing it for RF. Won't solve the general problem about Tweakscale breaking every second mod that comes out, but maybe RF compatibility can be resolved in the short term
<TwistedMinds>
I know I've had way less issues since I removed TweakScale. Far&realfuel issues were common, rockets not detecting any other parts if I rescaled something
<Starwaster>
TS / RF incompatibility issues have been around for awhile. ALso TS compatbility issues with other mods in general. And that's without getting into the issues I have with the KSP cost/mass interface
<Starwaster>
it would be nice to think just sitting down with the code and doing a few PRs will fix everything for everyone but I don't think it's going to happen
<acc>
I use TS for IR only. all other TS configs get deleted
<xShadowx>
used to love TS but refuse to touch it since i saw its code updating scale in Update() o.o
<TwistedMinds>
Although renaming all parts with uninstalltweakscale might be a bit too annoying imho. put a warning on load or something
* xShadowx
headdesk
<xShadowx>
or a FINAL patch to remove TS :)
<acc>
when you install a mod, simply check it for ts configs and delete them. no renaming needed
<TM1978m>
what is ts?
<blowfish>
TweakScale
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<taniwha>
TsheatScale ;)
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<schnobs>
Something seems to be very very wrong with sepratrons. Is it really just me?
<Qboid>
schnobs: stratochief|away left a message for you in #RO [28.04.2017 18:26:57]: "interesting how you went do the Goldberg line to solve that problem, I staged TinyTim and Aerobee at the same time, never had that problem. I guess I lucked out in trying that before getting creative :)"
<Qboid>
schnobs: stratochief|away left a message for you in #RO [28.04.2017 18:33:59]: "we can't really attempt to replicate your findings when you haven't described your install"
<schnobs>
!tell stratochief: igniting tinytim+aerobee together, then staging away the tim works nicely. Disregard all my comments in that direction, the issue isn't excessive g-forces. At least not as such.
<Qboid>
schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<schnobs>
!tell stratochief however, I do get the oddest things when using sepratrons on small vessels (like Aerobee). Yesterday, I had a pretty simple install, the first two pages of the spreadsheet and nothing else.
<Qboid>
schnobs: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<soundnfury>
schnobs: wonder if your vessel was made of physicsless parts or something *shrug*
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<HypergolicSkunk>
Pap1723: are you here?
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<schnobs>
soundnfury: physicsless would fit the bill. Only that the parts can't possibly be.
<schnobs>
Like, just now I detached a A-4 first stage. Sepratrons on the A-4 to push it clear of the payload, 50:50 that it will go kaboom.
<schnobs>
ordinarily I'd stick teh sepratrons to the payload for the extra kick, but... *shrugs*
<pap1723>
Hey HypergolicSkunk I was away and am terrible at setting AFK, what's up?
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<HypergolicSkunk>
which mod adds the baby-sergeant?
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<pap1723>
HypergolicSkunk, FASA does
<HypergolicSkunk>
Pap1723: thank you
<pap1723>
get the newest version from Raidernick github as it fixes some collider issues
<HypergolicSkunk>
will do!
<pap1723>
Time for Apollo 8, here goes nothing!
<HypergolicSkunk>
Pap1723: are you streaming?
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<pap1723>
I am not, and my Jupiter window came up before my craft was built, so I had to launch Zeus I instead
<HypergolicSkunk>
^are you playing with KCT or with KRASH?
<pap1723>
Both, I use KCT for all building times and research times, I use KRASH for simulations
<HypergolicSkunk>
nice
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<schnobs>
wasn't there a baby sergeant ins "stock" RP-0? As well as a WAC engine?
<schnobs>
Also Astris and AJ10-137 and whatnot -- a half dozen at least that were all reusing the same Model, (SXT 1kN thruster) stretched as needed. I seem to lack all of them.
<schnobs>
Is that on purpose or is my setup just broken?
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<pap1723>
Are you all willing to post a list of the parts mods you are using with RO?
<pap1723>
I want to focus on those first and not mess around with the really old stuff with no updates
<pap1723>
if no one is using them
<schnobs>
I used to be quite happy with FASA and nothing else besides what RP-0 prescribes.
<HypergolicSkunk>
absolutely
<HypergolicSkunk>
and I just noticed that my RP-0 install won't be complete without FASA :)
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<gazpachian>
Pap1723: My vote for the soviet engines pack
<pap1723>
gazpachian, the new one, or Bobcats?
<pap1723>
by new one, I mean RealEngines which is all real Soviet Engines
<gazpachian>
Well, you need bobcat's to get the NK-whatevers
<gazpachian>
Or are the configs there in 1.2.2 RO?
<pap1723>
Is there an updated version of Bobcats?
<gazpachian>
you know what, I forget which source I grabbed them from
<gazpachian>
but I assume it's the old pack with some compatibility patch, I'll dig around and get back to you on that
<gazpachian>
but that new one has more engines, so that's neat
<gazpachian>
the S5.92 particularly, had to grab RLA stockalike to get that alone in my current install
<gazpachian>
and then it turns out that isn't placed/costed for RP-0 anyways. :P
<gazpachian>
thanks for pointing me in that direction at least! No need to haul around legacy packs with better options around. :)
<stratochief>
schnobs: they should exist, in theory. I haven't poked around for them i my 1.2 install since I'm beyond that tech level
<Qboid>
stratochief: schnobs left a message for you in #RO [29.04.2017 08:02:49]: "however, I do get the oddest things when using sepratrons on small vessels (like Aerobee). Yesterday, I had a pretty simple install, the first two pages of the spreadsheet and nothing else."
<stratochief>
Pap1723: HypergolicSkunk VSR and SXT are 'required' for RP-0, and FASA is a 'recommend' for starting early career, I also recommend Taerobee for the nice V2/A4 bits
<HypergolicSkunk>
that's what's missing! the V2/A4 parts! thank you :)
<schnobs>
I though Taerobee was a dependency like SXT?
<schnobs>
At any rate both are listed on the spreadsheet, while FASA is not...
<stratochief>
schnobs: maybe? all I know is that I used to play without it
<gazpachian>
schnobs: don't think it is, at least didn't use to be for 1.1.x
<schnobs>
OK.
<gazpachian>
You still get the aerobee engine without it, confusingly enough.
<stratochief>
schnobs: true. but the spreadsheet hasn't been heavily maintained since before FASA FINALLY got its 1.2 release (props to RN)
<stratochief>
gazpachian: yeah. and technically the RD-103 is the russian equivalent of the V-2 engine. but I like taerobee for making V-2 and Bumpers
<stratochief>
schnobs: I/anyone could probably add FASA to the spreadsheet. if I remember/have time today, I may do just htat
<gazpachian>
well, the RD-103 is an upgraded RD-100 I think, which was their carbon copy of the A-4? Don't quote me on that
<pap1723>
Alright, is this a config issue, or is it because I didn't bring an Engineer with...I am flying the SSTU Apollo with SM and all 3 Fuel Cells are on, but I am still losing 1.75 electricity
<schnobs>
Alright, let's see if I can have a look over the weekend. I don't know how to even investigate the sepratron issue, but figuring out the missing engines might be possible (also, I've got all the stock engines in my list -- probably related)
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<gazpachian>
It's good enough for early orbital stuff, so long as you throw something super light like the explorer probe
<schnobs>
Explore probe is FASA, though.
<stratochief>
schnobs: do you have RealFuels-Stock configs?
<gazpachian>
which could be true for the A-4 as well, but I don't feel like trying too hard doing that. :P
<schnobs>
stratochief: how do I tell (also, how or when would I have picked them up)?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: SSTU apollo probably isn't well configured. someone needs to give SSTU some TLC. nice thing is, they can copy good fuel cell and power consumption config stuff from FASA
<gazpachian>
yeah, I know. The 20in whatevermajig that uses the Sputnik model is another option
<gazpachian>
both are way lighter than the sounding rocket telemetry unit
<stratochief>
schnobs: look in Gamedata. if you got RealFuels from CKAN, or accidently grabbed it when getting RealFuels
<stratochief>
schnobs: making a forum post about your issue, possibly under "modded install support" following NK's "How to get help" page. then link it here. that should give other people plenty of info to suggest ways to track it down, or they may know the soln
<pap1723>
I will continue to love on the SSTU parts
<acc>
yeah, they're awesome
<stratochief>
gazpachian: fat bottomed engines make the rocket world go round
<acc>
Pap1723: do they work with RO/RP-0 yet?
<stratochief>
Pap1723: any PRs with SSTU fixes yet? one day, I'll find the time to look at PRs and review them. one day.
<acc>
heh
<pap1723>
acc, sorta, some need to be fixed
<acc>
cool
<pap1723>
*most need small fixes
<pap1723>
stratochief, not yet, working on some now
<stratochief>
acc: most sstu engines have RealFuels configs attached, which is great and was straightforward because of the great engine templates system. I don't think they have RP-0 pricing, and the cluster system will need fixing to price correctly
<gazpachian>
stratochief: except these weren't orbital, so the 'round' part isn't nearly as fitting as it could have been!
<stratochief>
Pap1723: no rush, just wanted to make sure you weren't feeling neglectted :P
<acc>
but it's something to work with and better than nothing :)
<schnobs>
Actually, IMO they don't look all that similar -- at least not on the second picture.
<acc>
maybe at some point I'll find time to help with that. after I gott the RO page on :>
<schnobs>
On the first one, the structure and machinery reminds me very much of a A4.
<gazpachian>
schnobs: when compared to other rocket engines both seem kinda distinct from the sleek bells we're used to nowadays I'd say
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<schnobs>
I'd say that's typical of early rockets. One step up from the Kegeldüse.
<acc>
heh
<schnobs>
stratochief: thanks for pointing out the RF stock configs.
<schnobs>
now the SXT-derived engines appear to be all there, and...
<schnobs>
...sepratron weirdness seems to be solved as well (just one quick check, but looks good)
<stratochief|AFK>
schnobs: yeah, that is a common problem, since when RO & RF are on CKAN, CKAN downloads the RO configs. without RO there, it force-downloads the stock configs, making everybody confused and upset
<acc>
manual install went just fine :3
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<stratochief|AFK>
Agathorn: will there be airlaunch in JWVSPM? (JW Vanderbeck's Space Program Manager) ? :P
<acc>
/r/realsolarsystem: "Does the stock delta-v map apply here?"
<acc>
wtf? lol
<acc>
stratochief|AFK: wait, what? Agathorn works on a space program manager?
<stratochief|AFK>
yeah, Agathorn was discussing his planning for one yesterday, or the day before. don't share this link, as it is posted privately:
<soundnfury>
I think he's actually referring to the Guisarme
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<soundnfury>
(is taniwha's real name Bill Guisarme?)
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<diomedea>
please, soundnfury, is always best not to reveal generalities, at least not on a somewhat public channel (though I can't deny nor confirm the name).
<soundnfury>
Halberd.
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<pap1723>
Apollo 8 has landed successfully! Pulled some serious G's coming back from the Moon though
<pap1723>
stratochief|AFK, you have a video on proper return angle from the Moon?
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<stratochief|AFK>
Pap1723: not that I'm aware of. I always find that a bit wonky. quicksave is your friend :)
<HypergolicSkunk>
I dont know how I managed to play an entire RP-0 career in 1.1.3 without quicksaves and reverts D:
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<xShadowx>
HypergolicSkunk: and it gives you a warm fuzzy feeling?:D
<StellarRaptor>
xShadowx: Like a kitten?
<soundnfury>
StellarRaptor: or, apparently, an isopod 0_o
<HypergolicSkunk>
xShadowx: it bit me in the ass big-time when I streamed a Jupiter-flyby and had the luck to turn that assist into a Saturn-flyby.. there were like 10 people watching (crazy numbers for me), and when I canceled the time-warp just before entering Saturn's SOI, the vessel experienced a severe case of Kraken and exploded D: