Wetmelon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<blowfish>
SolverEngines released
<Raidernick>
stratochief, you on>
<Raidernick>
?
<Raidernick>
or SirKeplan
<stratochief>
Raidernick: yup, I'm here. what up?
<Raidernick>
stratochief, when you input thrustpower for an rcs or an engine or whatever
<Raidernick>
does it split that thrust across all thrust transforms
<stratochief>
blowfish: what uses engine animates but doesn't inherit from ModuleEnginesSolver? SSTU maybe?
<Raidernick>
or does it give that same thrust to each
<blowfish>
nothing, it's just that it allows better use of interfaces
<Raidernick>
so like if i have 4 transforms do i need to multiply the thrust by 4
<blowfish>
in this specific case I wanted to use the same animation module on both the jet and ramjet
<stratochief>
Raidernick: good question. do any FASA parts do that? like, the Gemini service module perhaps
<Raidernick>
no idea
<blowfish>
so I created an interface that they both share
<stratochief>
blowfish: gotcha, makes sense.
<stratochief>
Raidernick: it may be different for RCS vs engines
<stratochief>
Raidernick: for RCS at least, I believe it splits them. FASA has 2 different Gemini service modules, one configured as RCS across 2 transforms, the other as an engine with one
<stratochief>
Raidernick: and in the configs, they both list thrusterPower as 0.4448222 kN, and both generate the same thrust
<Raidernick>
ok
<xShadowx>
my drama escape (ksp) turned into too much drama, so break time from ksp, cya :D
<stratochief>
xShadowx: why so drama in KSP? 100 people on Mars?
<xShadowx>
uh
<xShadowx>
nuuu you should do a whole colony
<xShadowx>
:)
<xShadowx>
melt ice > get water
<blowfish>
AJE released!
<xShadowx>
smelt sand > get iron
<stratochief>
I like the idea of microwaving sand, acquiring water
<taniwha>
blowfish: I pushed a minor fix for MFT this morning
<taniwha>
haven't done a release yet (have other things to do first)
<blowfish>
cool, I think we're still waiting on a couple of things for RF anyway, so no rush
<stratochief>
A modern RP-0 alternative would be cool. more fantasy and colony oriented, with all the early engines pruned away and near-future technologies
<taniwha>
fixes the fuel mix buttons missing when loading a ship in the editor
<taniwha>
(when the tank has room)
<stratochief>
RP-2000 perhaps?
<taniwha>
or maybe 2100
<stratochief>
taniwha: nice fix
<blowfish>
!tell NathanKell I released a new version of SolverEngines, mind updating the OP when you get a chance?
<Qboid>
blowfish: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<stratochief>
taniwha: yeah. the tech timeline could be extended outwards toward 2100 perhaps, but starting in the near-modern era would give the player the feel of chosing the direction of mission focus and technology development
<taniwha>
good point
<taniwha>
btw, docking with an uncontrolled vessel with persistent rotation is... challenging
<taniwha>
I did succeed, though
<stratochief>
meanwhile, I'm stuck in ~1970 starting to turn CO2 into CO and O2
<xShadowx>
\o/
<taniwha>
didn't help that the controlled vessel was a bit of an underpowered noodle
<stratochief>
I'm bring my own hydrogen, since USA 1970 doesn't even know that Mars has water, let alone where it is concentrated in the soil or how to recover it
<taniwha>
CO + Fe2O3 -> Fe + CO2
<stratochief>
interesting! CO reduction? that would be a useful tech to use on Mars :)
<taniwha>
Fe + effort = moar struts
<stratochief>
yeah, docking with Persistent Rotation is hard. I generally control both craft though, because I'm a lazy cheater who makes videos
<taniwha>
stratochief: that's actually how the heavier metals (iron, copper, etc) have been produced since the beginning
<taniwha>
(CO reduction)
<stratochief>
right. coke is an efficient producer of CO, I take it?
<taniwha>
yeah
<taniwha>
just get the mix of coke (ie, charcoal) and air right
<taniwha>
gives both the CO and heat needed
<stratochief>
plus, gobs of CO2 as a byproduct. IIRC, steel and cement production are large industrial producers of CO2
<taniwha>
largest
<stratochief>
I'm curious what the best way to make cement on Mars will/would be
<taniwha>
hmm
<taniwha>
gotta wonder if using reinforced glass would be better
<taniwha>
no need for water
<stratochief>
gotta start R&D for the Musk Pier on Mars, after all
<stratochief>
yeah, depends what the cement is desired for. non-cement alternatives probably can be made
<stratochief>
chemistry... is not my strong suit, shall we say
<taniwha>
I'd say the main advantage of cement is that it's a cool process (glass would be a hot one)
<stratochief>
on Mars, they would probably have to hold the ingredients of cement near room temperature, so it would proceed at a good rate
<xShadowx>
cement makes heat :|
<stratochief>
some, but enough to resist like -100C temps?
<taniwha>
yeah, cement curing is exothermic
<taniwha>
stratochief: air density makes a huge difference
<xShadowx>
cement being frozen wouldnt cure :|
<stratochief>
sure, but roughly half the surface area of the cement is in contact with the ground?
<taniwha>
yeah
<taniwha>
well, depends on what you're doing, but yeah
<stratochief>
probably would be easiest to make a machine pooping out cement blocks, rather than pouring in-situ
<xShadowx>
and cant make cement without heat :|
<xShadowx>
bringing cement qould weigh....a lot
<stratochief>
but again, that use would be limited by what you wanted to use it for
<xShadowx>
mars have limestone to cook to make cement?:|
<taniwha>
doesn't limestone imply life?
<xShadowx>
no clue
<xShadowx>
but thats what cement is made from, cooked ground up limestone :P
<stratochief>
made from shells of sea life, IIRC?
<taniwha>
that's my thought
<stratochief>
calcium bearing ore/mineral might still exist in Mars, I don't know much mars geology
<taniwha>
I imagine it does. Calcium is easy enough to get on Moon
<stratochief>
true. I can just go get some lunar calcium at my corner store :P
<taniwha>
(modest % vs carbon's ppm)
<stratochief>
but yeah, cement is not entirely necessary on Mars
<xShadowx>
explosives are fairly light for the amount of boom, what about blasting into ground for cover?
<xShadowx>
hell use the extra rocket fuel to run drills
<taniwha>
however, carbon is plentiful on Mars
<taniwha>
just open the window ;)
<stratochief>
why not just burrow? I believe there is a good chance mars habs will be buried, or partially buried for that sweet sweet radiation protection
<xShadowx>
wouldnt steel/glass be the materials for colony growth though? sand to make glass, and plenty of iron oxide for the atleast iron if not fully steel
<xShadowx>
just need to run the furnaces :|
<taniwha>
wonder how much radioactive material is available on Mars
<stratochief>
I'm not sure what metal would be the best/easiest to make in-situ. plastics will be quite easy to make, FWIW
<xShadowx>
why plastic? wheres the dinos for oil :P
<stratochief>
hydrocarbons. lots of water, lots of carbon. just add simple chemistry
<xShadowx>
then why do we use oil instead of air?;3
<taniwha>
because we can
<xShadowx>
put the plant next to a coal or oil burnin plant
<taniwha>
producing hydrocarbons takes a lot of energy
<stratochief>
true. we've got solar panels (and more importantly RTGs, nuclear reactors) to provide energy
<stratochief>
plus, at least at first, we're only talking about making small amounts of complex things on demand, not hundreds of tons of construction material per year
<stratochief>
plus, I'm primed for plastics fabrication because Mars Direct uses the same feed stock and shares some processes in order to make methane or other hydrocarbons on Mars
<taniwha>
hmm, a good "greenhouse" would provide CO2 conversion, food, and even complex hydrocarbons
<taniwha>
waste processing, too
<xShadowx>
whatd be nice for ksp, is cannibalize the rocket you come down in, every part either designed for 2nd job after landing, or easily molded raw material
<taniwha>
grow peanuts, get peanut butter and peanut oil
<taniwha>
use the oil for plastics
<taniwha>
xShadowx: oh, like EL's recycling bin? :)
<stratochief>
I expect the first few human missions to demonstrate plant growth as quickly as possible. ISRU can fairly handily provide air and water, food is the next hurdle there
<stratochief>
xShadowx: fun fact: plants don't grow so easily on Mars. much more straight forward to get O2 from CO2, at least for the first few missions
<stratochief>
taniwha: cool! I'm not much into lunar ISRU, I'm a Mars man :P
<taniwha>
stratochief: ~1/4 solar power?
<stratochief>
taniwha: I'm also a nuclear man
<taniwha>
stratochief: sure, but the process might be applicable
<xShadowx>
accually, the RTGs run on their way to mars, use the power for lights, grow plants from seeds along the trip, bring plants down with ya all grown and ready :P
<taniwha>
(and fluorine might be available on Mars)
<stratochief>
taniwha: definitely. I've saved the paper, I was just providing some context of my existing interest/research
<stratochief>
xShadowx: zero G plants, grown in artificial light, then transplanted to Mars G and Mars soil? I expect it to take a few missions to figure out efficient growth of various plants in augmented Mars soils, Mars light, and Mars G
<stratochief>
what I'm saying is that Mars really needs botanists :P
<taniwha>
ah, yea
Starwaster has joined #RO
<taniwha>
so send a few Mark Watney's
<taniwha>
er, Watneys
<Starwaster>
to farm potatoes?
<taniwha>
yeah
<xShadowx>
stratochief: why 0 G? lol
<xShadowx>
and hydroponics, no soil :D
<stratochief>
xShadowx: sadly, nearly all serious proposals for missions to Mars have been zero G. Mars Direct and I are outliers
<taniwha>
thrust-based artificial gravity won't happen any time soon, and spin-based has all sorts of problems
<stratochief>
taniwha: I'm comfortable strugging with the issues of spin-based artificial G. at least, that is my RP-0 plan
<taniwha>
stratochief: there's also structural issues
<taniwha>
not saying it's not doable, but it would be quite expensive mass-wise
<xShadowx>
steel cable, swing a pod round n round, or 2 for balance, when time to access, reel them in, dock em, open hatch
<stratochief>
taniwha: if you've got sources or specifics, I'd appreciate them. I just plan to use a tether to spin a Mars hab/descent vehicle opposite the Mars ejection stage extra ton or two of mass
<xShadowx>
or that ;3
<taniwha>
I don't off-hand, but I did read some NASA papers about studies done on the effects of spin
<xShadowx>
cable is much nicer than rigid structure
<taniwha>
need to keep the spin below 6 or so RPM
pap1723 has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
<taniwha>
which makes for large radii for 1g
<xShadowx>
with a cable you can let it go freakin long since you spend less mass on it
<stratochief>
taniwha: KAS/KIS lets me throw out a 20-40m tether, which seems to let me spin up comfortably to 0.33 or 1.0 at a reasonable RPM
<xShadowx>
and why go full 1g? mars isnt 1g
<stratochief>
yeah, shorter cable/more RPM means the astronauts feel a difference of G from foot to head, and more apparent frame effects like Corriolis
<taniwha>
stratochief: then there's crew transfer :)
<xShadowx>
dont need to transfer
<taniwha>
xShadowx: directly proportional to radius, but to the square of rotational speed
<stratochief>
taniwha: I don't do any crew transfer. spin up opposite the spend stage. Mars Direct avoids some of those thorny issues
<taniwha>
unless you have all crew on one side, you'll be in danger of nasty us-vs-them politics
<stratochief>
taniwha: yup, all crew one side. the opposite mass is the spent stage that threw them to Mars. my proof of concept video in KSP: https://youtu.be/x0Ts6SZlqLw
<taniwha>
stratochief: in that case, even without watching, I'm content :)
* taniwha
watches anyway
<xShadowx>
though said spent stage could be useful if you can land it on mars with you ;3
<xShadowx>
if only for material
<stratochief>
xShadowx: no major reason you couldn't attempt to also land the spent stage, or crash it nearby :P
<taniwha>
stratochief: but if you crash it, all the metal plates will explode!!! ;)
<xShadowx>
ah good point, crash with no fuel, no boom, just be mangled materials, add a hammer, housing!
<stratochief>
yeah, spinning opposite a dry stage just feels like genius. I'm mad e'rday that nobody has done a proof of concept, just to show how fairly easy it can be. Gemini could have spun opposite the dry second stage of Titan II, for crying out loud
<xShadowx>
thats why i love KKS, no boom, just mangled parts :P
<xShadowx>
ya
<stratochief>
xShadowx: then have the kerbals drag the mangled bits back to le forge, or tape it up and move in :)
<taniwha>
stratochief: I see you seem to like non-SAS EVA :)
<xShadowx>
and cable length can quite long, for low RPM spins
<taniwha>
(or maybe not)
<stratochief>
taniwha: EVA is confusing as sin to me, no matter which way I butter it
<taniwha>
SAS on = auto orient
<taniwha>
(ie, pre-1.2 behavior without FreeEVA)
<xShadowx>
stratochief: exactly :D
stratochief is now known as stratochief|away
<xShadowx>
o.O FreeEVA
* xShadowx
googles
blowfish has joined #RO
<xShadowx>
taniwha: uh that mean camera no longer aligns to ......'solar system up'? and instead align to 'kerbal up'?;3
<taniwha>
no, it disables the auto-orient kerbal to camera-up
<taniwha>
stratochief|away: might be ok as long as you don't look outside
<taniwha>
and even then, it might be ok
<xShadowx>
longer cable = lower rpm for said grav, you can make loooong cables with steel :D
<Rokker>
~thisday
<ThisDay>
Space history for April 17: Preliminary configuration for the Apollo Lunar Module is frozen in 1963, establishing the four-legged "bug" design that would come to land on the Moon six years later. Surveyor 3, the only probe to have been launched and then later visited by humans (Apollo 12 in 1969) is launched in 1967. Apollo 13 lands safely after a four-day odyssey in 1970. Columbia launches on STS-90 in 1998. SpaceX conducts its first Falcon 9R test at Mc
<xShadowx>
blowfish: i use the other first person eva mod, kerbaleva, heh
<xShadowx>
but i just realized, an eva kerbal is a vessel, i wonder how much one would have to do to add an IVA lmao
<blowfish>
kerbals on a kerbal?
<xShadowx>
if nothing else, just add a HUD ;3
<xShadowx>
hell we have kerbals as a cfg now, if its as simple as just adding INTERNAL {} node, might even get first person eva to not longer be code based lol
* xShadowx
disappears to try stabbing that
ThisDay has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ThisDay has joined #RO
Hohman has joined #RO
BadRocketsCo has joined #RO
Hohman has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.93 [Firefox 52.0.2/20170323105023]]
Senshi has joined #RO
B787_300 is now known as B787_Bed
JeeF has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
<ThisDay>
Space history for April 17: Preliminary configuration for the Apollo Lunar Module is frozen in 1963, establishing the four-legged "bug" design that would come to land on the Moon six years later. Surveyor 3, the only probe to have been launched and then later visited by humans (Apollo 12 in 1969) is launched in 1967. Apollo 13 finally lands safely in 1970. Columbia launches on STS-90 in 1998. SpaceX conducts its first Falcon 9R test at McGregor in 2014.
VanDisaster has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
ThisDay has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ThisDay has joined #RO
BadRocketsCo has quit [Ping timeout: 204 seconds]
BadRocketsCo has joined #RO
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
HypergolicSkunk has joined #RO
Rokker is now known as RokkerSleep
schnobs has joined #RO
blowfish has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<TheKosmonaut>
Ok, riddle me this
<TheKosmonaut>
Avionics are shown OK in VAB, I have control over the craft
<TheKosmonaut>
However, once the launch clamps release, I lose the ability to stage, toggle SAS/RCS.
BadRocketsCo has quit [Ping timeout: 201 seconds]
<TheKosmonaut>
Are there any RO compatible engine packs with missile engines, specifically SCUD engines or the like?
Shimmy has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
BadRocketsCo has joined #RO
ferram4 has quit [Ping timeout: 200 seconds]
BadRocketsCo has quit [Ping timeout: 190 seconds]
Olympic1 has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
BadRocketsCo has joined #RO
Olympic1 has joined #RO
Olympic1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
Starwaster has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<ThisDay>
April 17: Preliminary configuration for the Apollo Lunar Module is frozen in 1963, establishing the four-legged "bug" design that would come to land on the Moon six years later. Surveyor 3, the only probe to have been launched and then later visited by humans (Apollo 12 in 1969) is launched in 1967. Apollo 13 finally lands safely in 1970. Columbia launches on STS-90 in 1998. SpaceX conducts its first Falcon 9R test at McGregor in 2014.
HypergolicSkunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<stratochief|away>
TheKosmonaut: sounds like you've got some odd mod interfering; you should pastebin your mod list.
<stratochief|away>
TheKosmonaut: also, IIRC RN was recently working on a missile or two, I'm not aware of any missile engine packs though
B787_Bed is now known as B787_Work
Olympic1 has joined #RO
<TheKosmonaut>
stratochief|away: it fixed itself. Apparently some root part buggery
<TheKosmonaut>
stratochief|away: I made a RD180 scud.
<TheKosmonaut>
Most. Expensive. Short range. Missile. Ever.
<TheKosmonaut>
1800 funds lol
<stratochief|away>
naw, I made an F-1 sounding rocket once :P
<taniwha>
stratochief|away: not sure it gives encounter rel-vel, but KAC's encounter alarm will give closest approach info several orbits ahead
<taniwha>
(it seems I broke it for hyperbolic trajectories, though :( )
<taniwha>
(when I reworked KSP's orbit code)
<taniwha>
stratochief|away: cdst is the distance along the target's axis
<stratochief|away>
taniwha: I'll have to look into that. I assume you're refering to my Gemini-MOL rendesvous?
stratochief|away is now known as stratochief
<taniwha>
yes
<stratochief>
I also realize it is easiest to just keep the further behind craft's orbit entirely below the target's orbit, but old habits die hard :P
HypergolicSkunk has joined #RO
<taniwha>
I've never played RO, so I can't comment on rendezvous style :)
<taniwha>
in stock, I tend to launch to rendezvous (usually get fairly close), but otherwise usually meet in 1 orbit
<schnobs>
Last time I tried RV in RO it was infuriating.
<schnobs>
You've got to do it slowly and couldn't timewarp.
<schnobs>
Some buggery with ships jumping around when warping -- so I pretty much had to dock in real time. Or 1/3rd real time in case of the Mars Mission, because part count.
<schnobs>
Other than that... In stock KSP, I have one maneuver to set up the encounter, another to match velocities, and that's that. In RO I find that it takes a few more maneuvers.
<schnobs>
IMO it's easiest if you don't even try to do it quickly but rather plan for a few iterations from the outset.
RokkerSleep is now known as Rokker
<stratochief>
schnobs: the numbers/location appears inaccurate sometimes during approach as you warp, but I find that it goes back to the correct location when you drop from warp. YMMV.
<stratochief>
schnobs: I forget, did you ever take screencaps or share an album of your Mars mission?
<JeeF>
or point me in a direction where I can find info
<Probus>
o/
<Probus>
I like the way you think TheKosmonaut :)
<TheKosmonaut>
Probus: the rd180 missile? Lol
<TheKosmonaut>
It might be interesting to do some missile engines
<TheKosmonaut>
I don’t know where to find the isp for stuff like that though.
<TheKosmonaut>
At least for SCUDs and Musudan and other missiles of that nature
<TheKosmonaut>
Maybe we will recover more Musudan in the near future though so it could change :D
<TheKosmonaut>
taniwha: morbid curiousity had me do a simulation on nuclear detonations in tokyo. Good news, I don’t die. Bad news, I would get 3rd degree burns and probably die later.
<TheKosmonaut>
Assuming they aim for parliament or something
<TheKosmonaut>
Better news is tokyo isn’t an essential target anyway, but then again, neither was Alderaan
<schnobs>
Is that even a concern?
<TheKosmonaut>
schnobs: tokyo being hit?
<schnobs>
aye.
<schnobs>
Or rather, Kim launching Nukes more or less at random. Or at all.
<TheKosmonaut>
eh.. If kim was sensible, no. But they stated they would hit tokyo. The more likely plan would be to hit Kadena AFB, Yokosuka, and Yokota
<TheKosmonaut>
Honestly. The news is hyping it up.
<TheKosmonaut>
But if they were in death throws it is possible that they’d try
<TheKosmonaut>
Japan has Aeigis defense but not anything like THAAD, south Korea today announced they are accelerating THAAD deployment in response to recent events.
<TheKosmonaut>
And we have PAC defense too so we might be okay
<TheKosmonaut>
The problem is with the DPRK developing solid fueled launchers now is that you don’t get much heads up since they can cold launch
<TheKosmonaut>
s/throws/throes
<Qboid>
TheKosmonaut meant to say: But if they were in death throes it is possible that they’d try
<TheKosmonaut>
(maybe?)
<schnobs>
I can't really imagine NK starting a war. What could they possibly win, even if everything went well and the US stayed out?
<soundnfury>
schnobs: now I'm imagining KathanNell launching the missiles :/
<TheKosmonaut>
Their nuclear development is a deterrent. But that deterrent seemed only to encourage the big three countries to meddle
<TheKosmonaut>
North Korea was a good distraction in Asia to keep America less focussed on China
<TheKosmonaut>
But now China is a legitimately world-class country, it doesn’t help to have a crazy neighbor.
<TheKosmonaut>
So relations are souring a little, and Kim Jong Nam was under China’s protection. So him being assassinated at an airport by North Korea (or at least aided by NKor) didnt help things
<TheKosmonaut>
It’d do China a lot of good in their relationship with the USA to be cooperative in this. I have a feeling that there are a lot of backroom meetings going on now between them and North Korea.
<TheKosmonaut>
There is no telling what is going on.
<TheKosmonaut>
Frankly, im more concerned about north Korea’s chemical weapons stockpile
ferram4 has joined #RO
egg|zzz|egg is now known as egg
<xShadowx>
o.O
diomedea has joined #RO
schnobs has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
rsparkyc has joined #RO
Starwaster has joined #RO
VanDisaster has quit [Ping timeout: 180 seconds]
VanDisaster has joined #RO
awang has joined #RO
regex has joined #RO
BadRocketsCo has quit [Ping timeout: 383 seconds]
regex has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<ThisDay>
April 17: Preliminary configuration for the Apollo Lunar Module is frozen in 1963, establishing the four-legged "bug" design that would come to land on the Moon six years later. Surveyor 3, the only probe to have been launched and then later visited by humans (Apollo 12 in 1969) is launched in 1967. Apollo 13 finally lands safely in 1970. Columbia launches on STS-90 in 1998. SpaceX conducts its first Falcon 9R test at McGregor in 2014.
ThisDay has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ThisDay has joined #RO
ThisDay has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ThisDay has joined #RO
<JeeF>
Chief, you around?
awang has quit [Ping timeout: 190 seconds]
Wetmelon has joined #RO
diomedea has quit [Quit: Bye!]
egg is now known as egg|nomz|egg
awang has joined #RO
<JeeF>
!tell @stratochief you've a pm
<Qboid>
JeeF: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<Thomas>
The @ is a character added by your IRC client. Qboid cant see that.
Shimmy has joined #RO
egg|nomz|egg is now known as egg
HypergolicSkunk has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<stratochief>
I can see orange though :P
<Thomas>
Yes, but now there is a wild tell floating around in the db :P
<stratochief>
lol, well, true. ghosts in the machine
<Thomas>
Someone managed to tell something to an empty string
<stratochief>
impressive. any idea how they managed that?
<Thomas>
No :D
awang has quit [Quit: leaving]
rsparkyc has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
<xShadowx>
!tell test
<Qboid>
xShadowx: Index was outside the bounds of the array.
<xShadowx>
aw
<stratochief>
some people just want to watch the bots burn
B787_Work is now known as B787_300
Wetmelon has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]
Senshi has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<JeeF>
!tell Qboid !tell Qboid !tell Qboid test
<Qboid>
JeeF: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.