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<Starwaster>
blowfish. I'm pushing the final (semifinal) changes to RF. It's still not really where I want it to be but it will do for now.
<blowfish>
cool, like I said I'm always happy to do another release when you have any more changes
<Starwaster>
not sure if I mentioned this already but I have set specific heat on the four main cryogenic resources that RF uses to 0. What will happen is that the part (tank wall) temperature will tend to be higher but heat is being transferred into the resource anyway and then being removed as it boils off.
<Starwaster>
The reason for that is because part + resource is always treated by KSP as one homogenous temperature. That's why the 'ferocious' boiloff setting existed, so this change lets us turn that off.
<Starwaster>
at some point in the future I hope to convince Squad to give us some kind of interface that lets us control resource temperature separately.
<blowfish>
nice! Yeah, part and resource temperatures being the same definitely doesn't work with boiloff
<Starwaster>
yeah, if you REALLY want to get technical, if the part temp is at 200 then... so is your liquid hydrogen... so it's not really liquid anymore. So it really should have blown the whole tank up :P
<Starwaster>
(say, that's a nice fuel tank you've got there... be a shame if something HAPPENED to it!)
<Starwaster>
there's other cryo type resources I noticed that don't have vaporization settings. But they're not commonly used by RF for anything. (though they could be)
<blowfish>
really, 95% is LOX and LH2
<blowfish>
occasional LCH4 perhaps
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<Starwaster>
crap... so I made this Venusian probe and... I just cut it loose on its way to reentry. And I forgot that it had NO RCS... no reaction wheels. Nothing
<Starwaster>
so it's coming in hot and out of control
<blowfish>
Starwaster: any specifics you want to add to this changelog?
<Starwaster>
btw, how the hell does one get rid of the truss on the stock fairing? I don't usually mess with it because I don't usually have multiple paylods
<Starwaster>
was I supposed to use separators instead of decouplers?
<blowfish>
there's a button in the part action menu that disables it
<Starwaster>
I'm in flight
<Starwaster>
and that's not what I was asking anyway... assuming I DO use it, how do I jettison it
<blowfish>
I think it uses ModuleJettison, so if it's attached to a decoupler then it will stay with the decoupler after it detaches
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<Starwaster>
must need separators then because the decoupler is still part of the system. (I jettisoned a satellite to relay signals over Venus)
<Starwaster>
once I loose the probe it's basically unguided so that truss kinda messed me up. I got free of it and I have an inflatable shield so the drag reoriented me fairly quickly
<Starwaster>
it's kind of a Venera-a-like. (in that it's got no power beyond batteries and...)
<Starwaster>
oh shit... my antenna are going to be on the bottom
<Starwaster>
I did not consider the implications of that
<Starwaster>
on the other hand my relay probe is still in perfect position. So that went according to plan
<blowfish>
yeah it would have to be on the other side of the decoupler, or on a separator
<Starwaster>
dammit. I had separator motors to ensure that I detached cleanly from the shield and... they were too powerful for the poor little Stayputnik
<Starwaster>
especially in the dense atmosphere of Venus
<Starwaster>
well that gave me an opportunity to fix the truss thing. Separator did the trick.
<ThisDay>
April 24: In 1967, Vladimir Mikhailovich Komarov is killed when the Soyuz 1 main parachute fails to deploy. Soyuz 10 lands in 1971 after having failed to hard dock to Salyut 1. The Hubble Space Telescope is deployed on STS-31 in 1990.
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<pap1723>
stratochief, has anyone reported to you some strange behavior with the playlists on your YouTube channel?
<zilti>
egg|zzz|egg: alright ^^ What I noticed now is that when using "physics warp" it is much much worse, almost like the bug I first reported for night launches
<egg|zzz|egg>
yeah there appears to be issues with physwarp
<egg|zzz|egg>
don't physwarp :-p
<zilti>
egg|zzz|egg: Yeah :P I rarely do, just noticed, and sometimes it's weird stuff like this that can help finding the source of a "bug", so I thought I'd let you know
<egg|zzz|egg>
I really need to look into physwarp at some point >_>
<egg|zzz|egg>
there was a more annoying bug report recently, apparently landing on airless bodies is borkened
<zilti>
egg|zzz|egg: But what I still also get is very inaccurate "predictions", as in the HUD of Engineer Redux telling me the periapsis is 160km, but by the time I get close to there it is actually only like 136km
<egg|zzz|egg>
well, that's because you get osculating elements
<egg|zzz|egg>
your elements change with time, thanks to non-Keplerian effects
<egg|zzz|egg>
(e.g. in low Earth orbit, oblateness is significant)
<zilti>
So but how do I get a kinda exact circular orbit in LEO?
<egg|zzz|egg>
zilti: use our prediction, look at our Ap and Pe markers, hovering over them shows you the altitude
<zilti>
Ah, map view.
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<xShadowx|2>
egg|zzz|egg: randomly curious, why release based on moon phase? just because why the fuck not?:D
<egg|zzz|egg>
well, we wanted a deterministic release cycle, so that we just release what we have, rather than saying "oh wait, we want to fix that bug, we want to add that feature", etc. endlessly (Cardano took 8 months)
<egg|zzz|egg>
initially we thought about going for 6-week cycles, but something astronomical sounded more fun
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: also in practice it means we build on the week-end preceding the new moon, which starts to sound a bit like computing the date of easter
<egg|zzz|egg>
>_>
<xShadowx|2>
no blue moons?;3
<UmbralRaptor>
xShadowx|2: only if they're approaching you at >0.41 c. Give or take your perception.
<xShadowx|2>
would only get what 1 release a year though, then you could blame ksp for updating faster
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<Starwaster>
Hah! There's a Hayne's Workshop Manual for Saturn V
<rsparkyc>
nice
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: :D
<Starwaster>
Does anyone have a mass breakdown of the Saturn V SIVB?
<rsparkyc>
let me find what I used when i recreated it
<Starwaster>
more than anything, I need to separate out the actual tank mass (i.e. minus J2, fore skirt, aft skirt)
<Starwaster>
Did you know that the manhole/dollar size was influenced by the desire to mount a docking port to it for the proposed wet workshop?
<Starwaster>
originally it was too small at Von Braun wanted to make it larger but couldn't justify it in the budget. Then they found cracking in the gores and one of the proposed solutions was to increase the diameter of the manhole
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<AnticlockwisePropeller>
Hello, can someone tell me what units the densities in the Community Resource Pack are in?
<AnticlockwisePropeller>
I'm trying to config an engine, and I know how much of each propellent is spent in kg/s, but idk how that translates into ksp's units
<taniwha>
AnticlockwisePropeller: resource density is t/u
<taniwha>
the problem is the volume of 1u
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<AnticlockwisePropeller>
taniwha: oh, so does ksp model volume expended, rather than mass?
<taniwha>
yeah, mostly
<taniwha>
ElectricCharge is an odd one
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<taniwha>
or really, sorta
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<AnticlockwisePropeller>
okay, so is 1 unit ~ 1 litre? (lord knows how you measure "litres" of ElectricCharge, but there you go)
<AnticlockwisePropeller>
or does it vary by resource?
<HypergolicSkunk>
taniwha: a question... wasn't the blue CoL icon ball-thingy as big as the CoM-icon-ball-thingy back in 1.1.3? I have a stock 1.2.2 install, and it stubbornly remains being only half the size of the CoM icon-ball-thingy :( (I hope I described that comprehensibly..)
<Starwaster>
anticlockwisepropeller, when dealing with EC, it's in joules or kilojoules. That's what's being stored and that's what is reflected in the resource lists
<Starwaster>
Real Fuels might use the volume of the battery container to determine storage capacity but it's still joules in the end
<Starwaster>
kilojoules
<Starwaster>
or maybe it is joules... I forget
<xShadowx|2>
AnticlockwisePropeller: electricity may not have volume per sae, but the logic is the used the volume that a battery providing said amount of power would be
<Starwaster>
if you really want to get confusing, sometimes it gets referred to as watts but that's not really meaningful unless it's watt hours where 1 watt hour is 3600 joules
<xShadowx|2>
sure you could always claim a single AA would provide the power of a ZPM, thats up to you :P
<AnticlockwisePropeller>
the more you know! :P
<Starwaster>
wow I have a few dozen spent ZPMs lying around the house then
<Starwaster>
I could have gone to Atlantis
<Starwaster>
ok so this is interesting... I found a document that has the boil-off losses on the ground for an S-II at about 6% per hour... that's about 4 metric tons?
<xShadowx|2>
the latest claims are atlantis was a swamp in southwest spain
<Starwaster>
no, Atlantis is actually a starship sitting in the ocean on an alien planet in another galaxy
<xShadowx|2>
if only it were true <3
<Starwaster>
of course, the spain swamp location DOES have the advantage of being wraith free...
<Starwaster>
as far as we know
<Starwaster>
ok someone check my math... 260,000 gallons of LH2 equals 984207.064 liters... which at 70.99 g/L equals 69,868.859 tons
<Starwaster>
right?
<Starwaster>
at 6% that would be 4192 tons not 4 tons... that can't be right
<xShadowx|2>
!wa 260,000 gallons to liters
<Qboid>
xShadowx|2: convert 260000 gallons to liters: 984207 L (liters)
<Starwaster>
ok so even so, that means that RF boiloff is actually less than it should be...
<Starwaster>
probably
<Starwaster>
doing some ground tests on a rough mockup of the tanks and they're just nowhere near that high
<Starwaster>
and that's at stock conduction levels
<Starwaster>
Does Subnautica scare anyone else or is it just me?
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<xShadowx|2>
just you
<xShadowx|2>
subnautica fun
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<regex>
The idea of Subnautica? like under the ocean sort of thing? scares the crap out of me, happens in any game where I have to do swimming underwater type things.
<Starwaster>
when I first started, I would cautiously venture a few feet away from my escape pod then swim back real fast .... and that was before the sharks showed up
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<regex>
Yeah, it's tough to remind myself that it's just a game. I haven't bought that one, though.
<regex>
mainly because of the "deep water fear"
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<zilti>
(Speaking of water, I still have to launch a rocket from a submarine in KSP...)
<regex>
Sorry, was AFK, no, haven't tried that.
<regex>
Oh man, Diluvion looks hella artsy.
<regex>
I could get into that
<zilti>
(Disclaimer: only "downloaded as demo" and played it for about half an hour, so no promises from my side about quality :P)
<regex>
I wouldn't say I suffer from the phobia, really, just super uneasy about that kind of thing, especially IRL.
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<zilti>
regex: Oh I'm super uneasy about it IRL too. Even in a lake. If I can't see the ground, I tense up
<regex>
yep
<regex>
RO question: do I basically just grab the GameData from the FarBugFix branch of FAR?
<pap1723>
yes regex
<regex>
wrong one, the KSP_update branch. anyway, cool, thanks
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<stratochief>
Pap1723: no, but people generally use my youtube channel to comment on how they can't assemble a FASA Saturn V :P What problem/strange behaviour did you find?
<Qboid>
stratochief: egg left a message for you in #RO [23.04.2017 10:19:43]: "lunation number 214 begins at 2017-04-26T12:16 UT1"
<pap1723>
stratochief, on my phone I can see your playlists just fine, on my PC it shows as no playlists available
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<regex>
Another question: Does SXT work with RO itself or do I need RP-0?
<regex>
Oh wow, Tweakscale is on the list again...
<stratochief>
Starwaster: (reading through backchat) isn't something stopping/reducing/re-filling for boiloff in KSP-RO when on the pad? it could be that static convection at 0 m/s is too low. that issue could easily have been overlooked, since nothing really relies on that being really accurate
<stratochief>
regex: tweakscale is on what list now? as far as I know, SXT works alright with just RO. although depends what you're doing. if you want parts in a tech tree, for science mode, you need RP-0
<regex>
Tweakscale appears in green on the RO spreadsheet.
* stratochief
throws mountain of salt on spreadsheet.
<egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a central moo
<egg>
!wpn regex
* Qboid
gives regex a phase-locked squirrel
<egg>
StellarRaptor: MOO!
<stratochief>
green as in "updated to 1.2, doesn't cause game to immediately lock up"
* egg
stares at the /topic
<egg>
StellarRaptor: perhaps you should add your topicquote from here to that gist >_>
<stratochief>
regex: but feel free to try tweakscale with the most recent FAR version, ferram4_ said some of his fixes may have improved how tweakscale works, but I'm sure mountains of tweakscale retardedness still exists
<regex>
egg, NK is now PDT (Principia channel ops page...)
<regex>
if he's ever around, lol
<egg>
haha
<rsparkyc>
he's been around
<egg>
yeah, timezones are not really relevant are they
<regex>
nope
<rsparkyc>
!seen NathanKell
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: I last saw NathanKell on [20.04.2017 03:37:19] in #RO saying: "o/"
<egg>
regex: anyway, LVLH coming for the new moon
<egg>
regex: the concepts page and changelog have been updated already
<regex>
Yeah, I just landed on that page and was wondering why I was top of the list as a channel op.
<stratochief>
egg: will the stock system be well detected in the next Principia? I want to use it for testing some stock mods
<regex>
:P
<rsparkyc>
egg, i saw you created a new tag for principia, whet's that slated to be the afficial release?
<egg>
stratochief: it will
<rsparkyc>
s/afficial/official
<Qboid>
rsparkyc meant to say: egg, i saw you created a new tag for principia, whet's that slated to be the official release?
<egg>
rsparkyc: new moon
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: new moon, like... 2-3 days?
<rsparkyc>
you're releases are tied to the actual current moon phase?
<rsparkyc>
that's...interesting
<stratochief>
egg is committed to being quirky and... interesting :)
<rsparkyc>
not complaining, just think it's different
<rsparkyc>
lamont was able to create a mac build that seems to work on my machine, perhaps he can cut a new one off this version
<rsparkyc>
i wish i could actually just get it to build on my machine
<egg>
we tend to tag/build/package on the week-end before the new moon
<lamont>
i was fighting with “vanilla” RSS/RO mod installing yesterday
<stratochief>
lamont: for KSP 1.1 or 1.2 ? if 1.2, did you utilize the RP-0 golden spreadsheet?
<regex>
My mods list is nearly 1GB and I haven't even got to parts.
<regex>
and here I was going to stuff them on a public dir on one of our servers and download at home...
<regex>
probably easier to get a thumb drive.
<stratochief>
also, rsparkyc, since you're around: what experiments/experience did you do with Tweakscale in your RSS/RO/RP-0 install? ie. what things did you do/parts did you use that did or didn't give you trouble?
<lamont>
egg: i’m not seeing a git tag?
<lamont>
nm, i had to fetch origin
<rsparkyc>
i usually only use tweakscale on structural parts
<rsparkyc>
i use procedurals for everything else
<rsparkyc>
(other than engines of course)
<rsparkyc>
and no tweakscale on engines obviously
<rsparkyc>
i've been busy with work, so haven't gotten to play much KSP lately
<rsparkyc>
so the spreadsheet is getting kinda outdated
<rsparkyc>
anyone one to help me maintain it?
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: If I use a newer version of something than listed on the spreadsheet, I'll make sure to check and update the spreadsheet
<lamont>
@stratocheif 1.2 and i think i used the spreadsheet — at least i used “a” spreadsheet
<lamont>
*stratochief even
<regex>
startochef
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<zilti>
Stratochef must be a heavenly cook
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<rsparkyc>
stratochief: i'll need to give you permissions to make changes, i'm assuming you have gmail?
<rsparkyc>
if so, PM me your email and i'll add you
<lamont>
well i’ve got a build, but the DLL isn’t quite loading properly again
<zilti>
Hmm, those E-1 engines die on me like flies
<stratochief>
zilti: gotta R&D them, or use them lots to gain experience to improve reliability
<regex>
Does Test Flight affect sandbox craft?
<Agathorn>
if it is installed then yes
<Agathorn>
I don't recall making any attempt to distinguish the game mode
<regex>
K cool.
<regex>
I'll probably just multiply burn times by 1.5 or something
<lamont>
you can tweak test flight settings so it doesn’t require any R&D
<zilti>
stratochief: Good thing is, this rocket is so over-the-top for the simple small satellites I put up with it, that it doesn't do much having to discard the center stage while it is still half-full ^^
<pap1723>
OK, I just created an Issue on the RP-0 Github with the Contract Overhaul that we discussed stratochief
<Qboid>
[#642] title: Contract System Overhaul | I was talking with Stratochief on the RO IRC channel and we got to discussing contracts for RP-0. Since I exclusively play career mode and I have created hundreds of contracts in the past, I agreed to look at overhauling the contract system used by RP-0. I have read through the contract threads of #620, #614, #566, #564, #562, #463, #177 to get ideas of
<Qboid>
what has been discussed before. I have essentially created this blueprint of ideas already with my [Career Evolution Contract Pack](http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/157417-wip-122-career-evolution-contract-pack-beta-release-v03-updated-3-27-2017/&page=4#comment-3029187) but with RSS-RO, I have the ability to create much more detailed contracts that are not trying yo appeal to
<rsparkyc>
Pap1723 that looks awesome
<Agathorn>
lamont: you can but that doesn't affect (effect?) burn times
<lamont>
it does limit the burntimes and introduces highest-R&D levels of engine failures — so its TF without the testing grind...
<Agathorn>
right but he wants *longer* than defined burn times
<Agathorn>
disabling R&D won't make those longer
<Agathorn>
they remain the same whether R&D is off or not
<pap1723>
thanks rsparkyc
<lamont>
ah yes, agreed then. best to just have an install without testflight then.
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<stratochief>
Pap1723: excellent :)
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<regex>
Yeah, I love the concept of TestFlight and it works really well with RP-0, but it just doesn't fit my headcanon with sandbox.
<Agathorn>
well if you want to use it in one and not the other, you can just disable it in Sandbox
<Agathorn>
IIRC that setting is per save
<Agathorn>
or I could be mis-remembering
<soundnfury>
or you can just have eleventy different KSP installations, like I do.
<regex>
nah
<Agathorn>
insanity
<soundnfury>
You are in a twisty maze of KSPs, all alike. Exits are East, West, and Sun-synchronous.
<regex>
go west
<soundnfury>
regex: It is very dark. You are likely to be eaten by an egg.
<regex>
nice
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<soundnfury>
You see a rusty UA1203 SRM with a star on one end.
<regex>
sit on UA1205
<soundnfury>
Nothing happens.
<regex>
light match
<soundnfury>
You are 40km above the surface and still accelerating. Below you, the Colossal Cave is but a pinprick. Your move.
<regex>
take deep breath
<regex>
hold breath
<soundnfury>
5. ... Bxe6+ ?!
<Probus>
xShadowx|2, was wanting it to monitor when engines are affected by a failure.
<Probus>
kOS FLAMEOUT is only set when an engine is resource starved instead of broken.
<soundnfury>
Probus: one of many reasons why kOS sucks ;)
<zilti>
Pff, well, a broken engine isn't FLAMEOUT. It's just not running.
<zilti>
Soo when looking from "above", is that moon thingy going clockwise or counterclockwise?
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<ThisDay>
April 25: In 1961, the launch of the unmanned Mercury-Atlas 3 mission fails after the rocket suddenly pitches over to 70 . The LES is triggered when the rocket aborts and the capsule lands safely and is refurbished for MA-4