<stratochief>
!tell rsparkyc why you list TweakScale as having no issues in the golden spreadsheet? why, why you do?
<Qboid>
stratochief: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<stratochief>
lol. o/ rsparkyc
<taniwha>
stratochief: people are in denial that TweakScale has issues
<rsparkyc>
o/
<Qboid>
rsparkyc: stratochief left a message for you in #RO [06.05.2017 00:50:50]: "why you list TweakScale as having no issues in the golden spreadsheet? why, why you do?"
<rsparkyc>
haha, i'll update the spreadsheet
<stratochief>
taniwha: denial in which direction? I just have 'nam flashbacks and sweat when someone mentions Tweakscale. Someone could 110% fix it tomorrow, but I'd still have the flashbacks for years to come. too many confused user requests over the past few years
<stratochief>
rsparkyc: thanks. I know I could also edit it, but my initial reaction would be to just delete the line :P
<rsparkyc>
well, i use it :)
<stratochief>
I'm not sure how to best phrase a warning that may go to complete KSP noobs about tweakscale.
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<taniwha>
stratochief: they claim it works just fine
<stratochief>
!tell rsparkyc : well sure, but you know not to bug people about it gives you issues
<Qboid>
stratochief: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<stratochief>
taniwha: sometimes it do, sometimes it do
<taniwha>
(because they want their cheaty tweakscaled engines)
<stratochief>
but... SSTU's auto-clusters are fairly decent, why not use those?
<taniwha>
haven't looked into them
<taniwha>
but back tweakscaled engines: people get really upset when I point out that engines follow the cube-square law
<stratochief>
well, in theory tweakscale or tweakscale like mod could scale engines by cube-squared. but, none of the people who want it know how to make it, so...
<stratochief>
to the coder and configers go the spoils
<taniwha>
yeah
<taniwha>
though it's simple, mass is cube, thrust is square
<taniwha>
(so the ruskies are right: many little engine more good)
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<xShadowx>
just need someone to remake it correctly :|
<xShadowx>
preferably without changing size with update.....
<taniwha>
yeah
<taniwha>
darn, RA-15 is not quite good enough for Jool even with lvl-3 DSN
<taniwha>
88-88 is good enough (maybe with lvl-2) but I'm 532 science points shy :P
<stratochief>
taniwha: does Kethane or EL disable or hijack the stock ISRU parts, or will I have to be mindful to not accidentally use those?
<taniwha>
no reason you can't use them together
<taniwha>
though I have been considering making Kethane hijack them
<stratochief>
I'd recommend it as at least an option. If I knew what I was doing, I might be able to use them 'together', but as is, I'm more likely than not to mess up and combine incompatible parts/resources
<taniwha>
yeah, I was thinking it would be best to do as a side-mod to Kethane
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<github>
[TestFlight] jwvanderbeck pushed 3 new commits to dev: https://git.io/v9VV1
<github>
TestFlight/dev e185017 Starstrider42: Fix copy/paste error in EnginePerformanceLoss...
<github>
TestFlight/dev 159fe86 Starstrider42: Fix copy/paste comments as well
<github>
TestFlight/dev 38d30c4 jwvanderbeck: Merge pull request #161 from Starstrider42/patch-1...
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<lamont>
TestFlight eats another A-4
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<taniwha>
lamont: give it a B-5
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<acc>
g'mornin
<Qboid>
acc: Pap1723 left a message for you in #RO [05.05.2017 20:50:01]: "We are not crazy! The PARTUPGRADE issue is confirmed to be a Stock KSP "thing". I'm glad we figured it out, but fuck that was painful."
<acc>
interesting
<lamont>
i’m feeding it AJ-10s now its hangry
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<acc>
yummy
<acc>
but no RL10s or it gets boiloff
<acc>
!tell Pap* Good job :)
<Qboid>
acc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
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<Olympic1>
ah, I see that shadowmage fixed it in MM
<acc>
Olympic1: yep
<acc>
and Sarbian already merged the patch
<Olympic1>
I saw
<acc>
:)
<Sarbian>
I hate those part of code that init things in a hidden way and at the worst time...
<acc>
yeah
<acc>
but good we found out, so it works now for everyone
<Pap>
stratochief, I will hopefully have a test version of all contracts up to Lunar Landing ready today
<schnobs>
The Leibowitz print, another abstraction, appealed to nothing, least of all to reason. He studied it until he could see the whole amazing complexity with his eyes closed but knew no more than he had known before.
<schnobs>
It appeared to be no more than a network of lines connecting a patchwork of doohickii, squiggles, quids, laminulae, and thingumbob. The lines were mostly horizontal or vertical, and crossed each other with either a little jump-mark or a dot;
<acc>
Pap: I had typos in the misc parts. because there its maxDiameter and not maxTankDiameter
<schnobs>
they made right-angle turns to get around doohickii, and they never stopped in mid-space but always terminated at a squiggle, quiggle, quid, or thingumbob. It made so little sense that a long period of staring at it produced a stupefying effect.
<schnobs>
(Quote end) ...anyone around who doesn't know the book? Can you guess what it's about?
<acc>
hey stratochief :)
<stratochief>
o/ acc
<stratochief>
acc: Wie gehts?
<acc>
gut. und dir?
<stratochief>
Mein Himmel ist traurig und dunkel
<stratochief>
day 3 of rain
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<acc>
oh
<acc>
I had some sun, but now it's also grey
<Pap>
We have our 2nd sunny day in a row after 8 days of grey and rain
<acc>
Pap: I put the fixes in the PR
<Pap>
great!
<acc>
but no idea why it's PRing to merge my branch
<acc>
havn't done anything different
<stratochief>
grey I don't mind, I'm too light sensitive for sun all the time. but I'm a wimp when it comes to rain
<stratochief>
acc: could be that the master branch has changed (due to us merging other PRs) since you made your clone/copy. Github is strange like htat
<acc>
pull requests are very weird
<acc>
hm, nah, no new commit in RO
<acc>
"Latest commit e936b33 3 days ago"
<acc>
maybe github does that because of the high number of commits in that PR?
<acc>
I still don't understand PRs completely. I would like to know how to split them
<CobaltWolf>
schnobs: wut
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: yeah but it's nice to kinda see it
<soundnfury>
stratochief: hier ist's trocken, aber auch grau (oder vielleicht weiß) oben.
<Pap>
nein
<Pap>
^ has exhausted all German
<acc>
fischers fritze fischt frische fische
<soundnfury>
zwischen zwei zwiebeln
<schnobs>
Ein plappernder Kaplan klebt peppige Plakate an die klapprige Kapellwand.
<schnobs>
Though that's more meant as a excersise, to properly pop your plosives.
<soundnfury>
sufficiently brisant consonants
<schnobs>
CobaltWolf: "A canticle for Leibowitz" -- a few centuries after the nuclear holocaust, it's once again Monks who copy and preserve the old books of lore. Often without understanding them.
<schnobs>
(There used to be a time when everybody knew what "post-apocalyptic" was. These days you have to properly explain yourself, lest somebody thinks you're talking about zombies.)
<stratochief>
schnobs: I didn't care for that book, not sure why. maybe because my dislike and lack of understanding of monks clouded my mind
<stratochief>
acc: schnobs those are some interesting tongue twisters
<CobaltWolf>
schnobs: Oh, I took a 'nuclear apocalypse' honors colloquia last winter, very good instructor. I was supposed to read that but by that point the class was making my already-present drinking problem even worse. I would have gotten an A anyways but I mouthed off to the professor last class about not doing the readings
<schnobs>
It's just that this is where I first picked up "dookickey", and I can't hear that (or thingmajig, gadget, ...) without immediately being taken back to that poor monk, who's looking at a wiring diagram and sees a mandala.
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: but -which- nuclear apocalypse? while the bombs drop? 5 years later? 20 years later? ; 50 bombs? 5000 bombs?
<schnobs>
What would that reading list be, I wonder. Leibowitz, Riddley Walker, The Beach -- and that's about it, isn't it?
<Pap>
what would make my rocket stick to the pad, even though I have plenty f thrust?
<schnobs>
Mystery goo.
<schnobs>
Triuth be told, I know the problem but not the reason.
<Pap>
Any chance that the Castor 1 rockets are broken?
<xShadowx>
be sure rocket is above pad
<schnobs>
Launch clamps are the solution, or using a decoupler below the engine.
<xShadowx>
use clamps :3
<Pap>
I am, it is at full thrust, clamps release and it just sits there
<xShadowx>
rocket above pad?
<stratochief>
TWR?
<xShadowx>
or close to touching
<Pap>
Well above, just hovers there
<schnobs>
^you can make ground contact while seeming to be 2m in the air.
<schnobs>
will it still however if you release the clamps without ignition?
<schnobs>
*hover*
<Pap>
ok, it is pivoting around a central point like a pendulum, so strange
<CobaltWolf>
there was a lot of stuff we read... canticle for liebowitz, The Road, On The Beach, Level 7, a bunch of short stuff. Alas, Babylon.
<CobaltWolf>
It was taught through the film school since it was about understanding how people's fears of nuclear war was reflecting in media. So every week in class (it was a 3 hour lecture) we'd usually do a 40 minute discussion, then watch a film, then spend the rest of class talking
<Pap>
Messed around with a couple of things and now it launches fine, so so strange
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: how about Godzilla? :P
<CobaltWolf>
we watched Dr. Strangelove, Testament, Threads (that one, I couldn't sleep for a week without having my laptop on my bed with a stream going. If I closed my eyes and it was quiet scenes from that film would just play in my head)
<acc>
heh
<Pap>
acc, are you playing KSP right now?
<acc>
not at the moment, but about to start the game
<acc>
why?
<Pap>
OK, when you do, can you create a SSTU decoupler with a size of 20mm and see if your rocket will not launch?
<schnobs>
Threads was a meanie -- but it didn't quite take me to sleeplessness.
<schnobs>
"When the wind blows" could have done that, if I had seen it a few years earlier. When I did, I found it to bee overly manipulative.
<acc>
20mm? min size is 0.1m
<Pap>
0.2m then please
<acc>
ah, ok
<acc>
yeah, I'll do
<acc>
and with launching you mean put it in a rocket and liftof?
<Pap>
yes
<acc>
k
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<Pap>
stratochief, you around?
<stratochief>
Pap: indeed
<Pap>
When you were working on SSTU configs, did you create the 5 x version of the F-1, if yes, why did you choose to do it that way?
<stratochief>
I thought the specific 5x F-1 part had been removed/deleted?
<Pap>
It is still in the configs, I was going to delete it, but wanted to see if there was a reason that I shouldn't
<stratochief>
anyway, the reason to create specific fixed parts in SSTU is/was so that an accurate mass and price could be attached to it
<Pap>
ah, that makes sense, does the cost not scale correctly when you cluster them?
<stratochief>
rather than the fuzzy price and mass that are the result of being along the price and mass functions defined in SSTU and that can't be expected to be static
<stratochief>
does the mass of a part increase 'accurately' when a mount/shroud is added to it?
<stratochief>
of course the mass of just 5x engines is 5x the mass of one engine, but a cluster of engines as generally used and represented in SSTU includes a thrust structure, mounting, etc.
<Pap>
Right
<acc>
Pap: structural failure...
<stratochief>
so, you can spend a bunch of time trying to get those function generated prices and masses close-ish for some configurations, or you can just bake a fixed part with the right (known) price and mass for a given configuration
<Pap>
That is a good idea stratochief
<Pap>
acc, it let you launch, but it didn't connect well enough with the parts around it?
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief: what's the general state of RO dev (in particular wrt to the official position on principia recommendation?)
<acc>
on load on the pad it broke
* egg|zzz|egg
should look into that moon landing bug :-p
<Pap>
ok, i think we might need to change the minDiameter on that to something like 1m
<Pap>
I think it was the part that wouldn't let my rocket get off the gournd
<acc>
hm, weird bug
<stratochief>
egg|zzz|egg: still waiting on pre-reqs for RO. once RO is actually released, we're thinking of recommending or suggesting Principia. of course, user (or Principia creator) feedback about show stopping bugs/problems in Principia would change that position :P
<Pap>
yeah, very strange
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief: hey, not being able to land on the moon isn't a show stopper, there's a lot that you can do by just staying in space :-p
<stratochief>
egg|zzz|egg: for example, if it causes craft to not be able to land on bodies, somewhat play-stopping
<acc>
I'm using that decoupler on most of my vehicles without any issue
<egg|zzz|egg>
nonsense :-p
<Pap>
acc, at very small sizes?
<stratochief>
egg|zzz|egg: sure. that would recommend in a highly qualified suggest, because users should know that it won't let them land on bodies, but it is still fun to do other things
<acc>
not as that, but yes
<Pap>
ok, i will keep messing with it and let you know for sure if it needs to change
<acc>
ok
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief: also, unless we do a save-breaker (which we did only once), it may be resolved in a future version
<egg|zzz|egg>
so they can start with their sounding rockets & flybys and eventually a new moon will allow them to land upon itself
<stratochief>
acc: Pap could be an issue with voxelization of such a small part? you could see if the same break happens w/o FAR. or, maybe because it is very light it gets shaked to death on load?
<acc>
yep, I think that's it
<Pap>
That is what I was thinking as well stratochief I know that sometimes in KSP really small parts don't work accurately
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief: principia development tends to be "move slowly and break things" :-p
<stratochief>
egg|zzz|egg: sometimes you've got to break to fix
<stratochief>
taniwha: w00t, used EL to make a rover on the Mun in stock :)
<soundnfury>
stratochief: can't make a principia without breaking a few eggs ;)
<stratochief>
hopefully nobody or nothing breaks The Egg
<acc>
don't worry, he's protected by a ork, a lizard and a groot :D
<acc>
RL10 unlocked \o/
<Pap>
I'm getting close to the RL10 as well! Not quite yet though
<stratochief>
acc: welcome to the Centaur. Pap: see you soon :)
<stratochief>
*the Centaur club
<Pap>
I am attempting a Lunar Orbit with an E-1 powered first stage with an Agena upper and a solid to get us to the Moon
<acc>
heh
<acc>
but it's a bit odd, that KCT does not share upgrades, even with the option enabled to do so
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<soundnfury>
acc: isn't the option about sharing building upgrades? rather than build rates
<acc>
soundnfury: but I had to upgrade the launchpad too
<acc>
maybe it shares only VAB, RD and so on?
<acc>
I definetly have to push buildrate or I'll have to wait two years for my rocket to finish
<schnobs>
talking about which.... I think current contracts make little sense.
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<Pap>
schnobs, I am remaking them, what did you have in mind?
<schnobs>
For one thing, the "didn't make it" penalty seems a bit harsh, typically more than you could earn on that contract.
<schnobs>
The other is that run times appear to be a bit short.
<acc>
the rp-0 contracts are a blessing compared to stock
<schnobs>
In the timing and making sense department, I agree.
<acc>
schnobs: you can disable penalties in the ksp difficulty settings
<Pap>
schnobs, but that is the point of them, to make you pay if you do not accomplish the goal
<acc>
I usually do that for declining, to better cherry pick :>
<Pap>
stock contracts are no big deal, if you fail, who cares
<schnobs>
It used to be that I could accept the !st satellite contract and use the advance payment on installations. By the time R&D has the parts ready, I also have the bigegr launchpad, tracking station etc.
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief: acc: there's a raptor too
<schnobs>
On this playthrough, I was reluctant to try that -- can't recall, but the timeframe appeared rather tight.
<egg|zzz|egg>
ok, I have replicated the landing thing I think
<soundnfury>
schnobs: it does warn you not to take that contract until you're confident you can do it
<schnobs>
you don't say.
<soundnfury>
I think the current failure penalties are reasonable in the early game
<soundnfury>
they do go a bit mad later on though, for things like manned moon missions
<schnobs>
"We will take a man to the moon an return him safely back to earth. You will receive funding once you're almost there"
<schnobs>
Mars/Venus flybys last two ears each. For Mars, that's not enough to try again on the next launch window.
<acc>
egg|zzz|egg: oh, yeah, right
<soundnfury>
schnobs: clearly we need to add an ear to the Mars one
<soundnfury>
specificially, space - the final front ear.
<schnobs>
*giggles*
<schnobs>
soundnfury, Pap: question one, is it desirable that players can only take on contracts when they're very much ready to fulfill them?
<soundnfury>
my experience is that the manned moon flyby / orbit (I forget which is the first contract) pays enough to fund the landing
<soundnfury>
schnobs: personally I think it's fine. I don't know about "desirable", but balance is hard and RP-0 is 'good enough' imo
<schnobs>
I like to use the advance payment in order to get the programm off the ground. Most obviously with satellite. The funds are just what you need in order to build the facilities -- but it takes a while to build them, and to research the parts, and finally to assemble the rocket. One year is a bit short, IMO.
<soundnfury>
schnobs: I think building the facilities should come beforehand - it's not what the advance is for
<soundnfury>
(but then the advance should be smaller and the success payout bigger)
<schnobs>
with what?
<schnobs>
yea, that's what I'm trying to get at.
<soundnfury>
there's easily enough money in stuff like sound barrier to get to orbit-capable facilities
<egg|zzz|egg>
!wpn stratochief
* Qboid
gives stratochief a terbium phototransistor
<schnobs>
I'd like to take (and spend) the advance payment well in advance. If I can only take on the contract when I'm ready, forget about the advance and just make it a big reward.
<schnobs>
soundnfury: ah, so you can fly? I can't.
<schnobs>
WASD controls make no good pilots.
<schnobs>
esp not in FAR -- in stock I can usually fake it somehow.
<soundnfury>
heck, if you're willing to go slow and require a bit more tech, you can make orbit from the 40t pad. It's only the crazy-ass TL0 designs that don't fit that
<soundnfury>
schnobs: ah, I have a joystick. Also I'm ok at aerodynamics
<soundnfury>
(hint: flaps are your friend)
<soundnfury>
sadly, leading-edge devices (e.g. droops) don't appear to work in FAR
<schnobs>
(seriously, I prune out all air-breathing engines and if ContractConfigurator would support it I'd disable the X-plane contracts)
<soundnfury>
apparently camber doesn't contribute to lift
<Pap>
So maybe all Venus and Mars missions should allow for 2 launch windows? Basically the length of the contract is the time it takes for 2 synodic periods and then typical travel time to the planet?
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<schnobs>
Pap: hold on.
<Pap>
With smaller advances and much larger rewards?
<schnobs>
I'd recommend to either increase the runtime, or tone down on advances.
<Pap>
stratochief, do you have an opinion?
<schnobs>
Both makes sense. "Here's some money, now fulfill condition" isn't bad, but you need enough time to actually do it. Especially if the penalty is potentially ruinous.
<schnobs>
Also keep in mind that the player often can't tell how long it will take.
<soundnfury>
schnobs: re planes: did you see my biplane?
<schnobs>
Again, 1st Satellite: I know that even simple sounding rockets take, like, one month to build. I know it's non-linear, but still, how long will it take to assemble a proper satellite launcher? Better safe than sorry...
<soundnfury>
schnobs: I support the 'tone down on advances' approach
<soundnfury>
but like I say; current RP-0 works ok for me; it's not perfect but it doesn't have to be ;)
<Pap>
I think a year is fine for almost all satellite launches
<schnobs>
ordinary satellites? Yes.
<Pap>
I typically do not put more than 0.5 build points in the VAB in the early game and it is taking about 80-120 days to build a rocket
<Pap>
I always build 2 back to back so if there is a failure, I have a backup
<soundnfury>
^
<Pap>
Then if there is no failure, I try to see if I can reuse that launcher I built with a new payload on top
<Pap>
Those edits usually only take less than 30 days
<soundnfury>
if you act like an actual 1950s space program, you can usually cope with failures
<schnobs>
I'm talking about 1st satellite, the one that comes up as soon as you made the first good sounding rocket.
<soundnfury>
schnobs: yeah, so you don't accept it straight away
<soundnfury>
you fly some A4s with upper stages, maybe some XASR.1 stuff,
<soundnfury>
_then_ you go for orbit
<schnobs>
to what end?
<soundnfury>
it's _already_ too quick (you can get to orbit by about 1953, which is madness)
<acc>
definetly
<soundnfury>
schnobs: sounding rockets (high).
<schnobs>
The first thin *I* research is the better avionics (because also more scientific instruments)
<soundnfury>
one of those contracts is enough to pay for a nearly-orbit-capable rocket
<Pap>
But I understand what you are saying, I am going to write thses contracts and they will need about 2 weeks of extensive playtesting by everyone who is willing to make sure we iron out all bugs, set the payouts and deadlines correctly as well
<soundnfury>
schnobs: yeah, I take that pretty early, for the same reason
<soundnfury>
though the *first* thing is often the early supersonic flight, just 'cos it's so cheap
<soundnfury>
(and because rocketplaaaaaaane contract pays quite well)
<stratochief>
Pap: schnobs can make specific suggestions now, or later. no point in trying to adjust the entire hoard of contracts now based on broad, subjective feedback
<egg|zzz|egg>
aaah I think it's the bug of mods that allow timewarp at 0 m again
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief: does RSS do that?
<egg|zzz|egg>
(allow timewarp at arbitrary altitudes on airless bodies)
<egg|zzz|egg>
(not physics warp, that's probably broken anyway for reasons I don't understand)
<soundnfury>
egg|zzz|egg: RSS limits timewarp close to even airless bodies
<soundnfury>
(just with different thresholds to stock, ofc)
<stratochief>
I mean, some contracts have the right feel by schnob's standard, and some don't. of there are particular ones he finds particularly bad, he can make suggestions specific to that contract to have additional time added, etc.
<stratochief>
and to further complexify things, how quickly a player can react once taking a contract depends entirely on the difficultly they have selected, because that will lead them to have X construction and research speed rather than Y
<schnobs>
stratochief: it's more the general idea, what are contracts supposed to be good for? How do they fit into gameplay?
<stratochief>
schnobs has a point that the player doesn't know how long it will take to research, construct until after they've taken the contract, and/or based on past experience. I think that means new playerss should play on an easier difficulty until they develop a feel for that
<Pap>
schnobs, I think they are there to give direction to the player on where to go and what to do next and to also give the player interesting decisions and interesting choices to make along the way
<egg|zzz|egg>
soundnfury: ok, so then landing on airless bodies with RSS shouldn't be an issue
<egg|zzz|egg>
it's just if you have better timewarp or the like
<schnobs>
Advances that help you get twoards a certain goal are alright. But then you should also have the time to get there, plus safety margin. From first satellite to first man in space it is a few years.
<soundnfury>
egg|zzz|egg: ah but it _will_ let you timewarp in situation LANDED, just like stock does :/
<Pap>
As it is, I do all of my research before I will accept any contracts because it starts to take a long time to unlock the nodes, then I use my Advance Funds to buy the parts that I have unlocked
<egg|zzz|egg>
soundnfury: yeah but that should be fine
<egg|zzz|egg>
the problem is landing, not being landed
<stratochief>
schnobs: entirely depends on the contract. for 'first satellite', the goal is clear, some of that advanced cash may be used to buy new tech in order to accomplish the contract. I prefer to play it so that the Advance is only partially spent on new tech, if you need all the advance to get new tech and don't have enough time you're playing on too hard a difficulty
<Pap>
schnobs, It was 1957 to 1961 in RL from Sat to man in space, not too far out of reality
<schnobs>
ALternatively, you can make it rewards-based. Player may only take on a contract if he's pretty confident to be able and do it. In that case the time frame needs only be long enough to cover a few failed attempts.
<Pap>
There could be a good mix of them schnobs
<schnobs>
(you could also shift the payout from advance to reward)
<schnobs>
The runtimes we currently have are a bit long for the latterm way too short for the former.
<Pap>
For example, we can decide that we want all flybys to be small advances with large rewards
<Pap>
At the same time, we decide that human flight is all larger advances with small rewards
<soundnfury>
trouble is, the early game is my favourite bit (I love struggling with low tech for some reason), so I've gotten too good at it. So I can't help balance it xD
<egg|zzz|egg>
Thomas: is there a simple way to know the greatest altitude of the topography above a body in KSP?
<CobaltWolf>
A bit more detailing around the hatch
<Pap>
schnobs, that is something that I can fix with the timing of the contracts, I will look at them as I get into some of the later ones
<CobaltWolf>
helps if I actually remember to link the image^
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<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: why the 4 black rectangle bits in the middle of the door? for ventiliation? :P
<schnobs>
Pap: I'm much in favor of flybys being small advances with large rewards. Make it small penalties too -- basically the advance plus some interest or so. The idea is that one can afford to fail it, and just tray again later (the contract will re-spawn, will it?)
<stratochief>
beyond that, looks really, really good and honest to the original
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief: idk just wanted to break it up
Pap is now known as Pap|Away
<CobaltWolf>
the hatch is weird, I was trying to figure out why it didn't have a handle or hinges... but whatever I added on anyways so the player understood
<stratochief>
CobaltWolf: maybe make it a spot for the program flag? like, Murica flag or Apollo bug?
<acc>
uh, sneaky badbad. I found the source of my prevous launch failure. the ascent guidiance was set to a flight angle of -8 at 80km
<soundnfury>
what schnobs said
<acc>
schnobs: something like a mission designer would be nice, where you can pick what to do and it calculates the rewards
<stratochief>
yeah, I agree that cool science firsts should have lower penalties for failure, while missions with a customer or humans should have higher penalties (customers give cash penalty, human failure hurts reputation?)
<stratochief>
acc: that... would be a massive, complex mod, I think
<acc>
yeah, I think so too
<schnobs>
stratochief: lets face it, failure is not an option.
<acc>
but a awesome replace for the current system
<stratochief>
although, say, landing on the Moon 'in the wrong biome' (aaaarg) shouldn't be much of a penalty. crew death should be a big hit
<schnobs>
keep in mind that failure is "failed to do it in given timeframe". If you may kill a dozen people trying and still meet the contract if at last you do succeed.
<acc>
is it just me or is the sea level inconsistent?
<acc>
I'm pretty sure vandenberg wasn't a island the last time
<stratochief>
lol. well, I wonder if training a crew member should cost reputation, as a way to penalize crew-murder in a roundabout way?
<stratochief>
acc: yeah, it varies for me too. sometimes KSC is under water
<acc>
!tell Pap* have you done the plumes for the SSTU engines?
<Qboid>
acc: I'll redirect this as soon as they are around.
<acc>
CobaltWolf: that's very pretty
<CobaltWolf>
acc: thanks!
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<acc>
damn, there's not one single ground station south of vandenberg
<acc>
mhm, that stations at the south pole will do
<stratochief|away>
CobaltWolf: so, you're just choosing to show up the paid KSP expansion?
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief|away: yeah basically
<CobaltWolf>
fuck them haha
<CobaltWolf>
I had a dustup with RD a few weeks back after the second set of screenshots
<xShadowx>
be interesting to see how many go for the payed DLC to remain stock purists vs get the mods :P
<CobaltWolf>
lol I'm up to here with stock purists at this point
<xShadowx>
i really dont get them
<CobaltWolf>
sick of hearing 'that's really nice, I wish i could use it but mods are cheating'
<CobaltWolf>
i wanna choke them
<Starwaster>
Why is it that most of my coding revelations come to me away from my PC... while cleaning up cat shit?
<stratochief|away>
Starwaster: because coding revelations are how cats pay you back for taking care of them
<Starwaster>
makes sense...
<xShadowx>
it makes me want to code a game thats purely a mod framework, strive for the least content in the base game, then sell on steam, just to see how much 'stock purists' i can attract :P
<CobaltWolf>
Starwaster: what does that say about your codebase?
<stratochief|away>
I've never understood stock purists. mods pioneered the way for everything stock adds. mods added career modes, ISRU, all kinds of parts that stock 'borrowed' and adapted
<Starwaster>
CobaltWolf: fueled by catshit and coffee?
<stratochief|away>
mods let you flavour your game to be how you like it. as a human being, you get to choose whether you 'cheat' or not through the use of mods or otherwise (stock as a Cheat menu, FFS)
<Starwaster>
stratochief|away, QFT. They don't realize how much of stock started as mods
<xShadowx>
remember regolith mod and how stock purists poo poo because its a mod? now rejoice at stock having resource mining? same code, mod just added to stock :P
<xShadowx>
fine print, gotta love it
<stratochief|away>
IMO, roverdude's models/textures aren't good, but I do like his concepts for gameplay. modders just spend more time and put more love into their creations, RD is on a tight time budget
<CobaltWolf>
I had a whole critique of his art and he got super upset, sent me some angry PMs then gave me the silent treatment after I apologized
<xShadowx>
"mods are too buggy, stock is better"
* xShadowx
points at parts of parts of stock resource system still buggy
<stratochief|away>
CobaltWolf: he might have just realized that angry PMs were immature. 'silent treatment' isn't always a further punishment, just regret for being a dick?
<CobaltWolf>
stratochief|away: prolly should apologize back then. or reply to things I've said to him in other threads.
* xShadowx
gives stratochief the silent treatment
<stratochief|away>
xShadowx: at least with stock bugs, you're complaint (when properly filed) will be considered, added to a queue, and maybe eventually handled and fixed
<CobaltWolf>
https://i.imgur.com/FKQz7xx.png btw, this pod is great until you get to the bottom. Those bright rivets look like shit, and so does the edge between the white and dark around the bottom of the pod. I like how after I raised shit he did the Porkjet style foothold, he's never done those before.
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief|away: xShadowx is complaint
<stratochief|away>
with bugs in mods, I just laugh at poor user descriptions and ignore that shit
<CobaltWolf>
oh and the fucking windows are the wrong color
<CobaltWolf>
Beale's standard operating procedure when users say they have bugs, is to ask for a screenshot of their gamedata folder. Without fail, that shuts them up.
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief|away: whereas with principia bugs, the bug just crashes the game
<egg|zzz|egg>
much cleaner :D
<xShadowx>
all i know is a stock bug i reported years ago, still unfixed, mod bugs fixed within days/weeks :D
<stratochief|away>
egg|zzz|egg: err, my solar system just... exploded. Egg response: working as intended, you know what you did wrong. Issue thread closed.
<egg|zzz|egg>
:D
<stratochief|away>
xShadowx: when you report the bug properly to a mod/modder, it generally gets fixed faster, yeah
<stratochief|away>
CobaltWolf: no kidding. bloody users 'want' help, but never give anywhere close to useful info to get it
<xShadowx>
stratochief|away: that engine is still broke, fix please
<stratochief|away>
egg|zzz|egg: yeah, I might have recieved that bug in the last Principia release in the stock solar system
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief|away: uh the *last one*?
<egg|zzz|egg>
Cartan?
<egg|zzz|egg>
you shouldn't
<egg|zzz|egg>
Cardano was buggy
<egg|zzz|egg>
it didn't apply the retrobop fix
<stratochief|away>
egg|zzz|egg: the previous one, yeah.
<egg|zzz|egg>
but Cartan should
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief|away: so Cardano?
<stratochief|away>
xShadowx: nice try, but users can't spell nearly that well
<xShadowx>
egg|zzz|egg: now fix the user-innability-to-get-logs-where-error-is-at syndrome :P
<stratochief|away>
egg|zzz|egg: yep, probably that one
<egg|zzz|egg>
stratochief|away: try to refer to them by names, otherwise it's a tad confusing :-p
<egg|zzz|egg>
(that's why my releases have catchy names instead of numbers)
<egg|zzz|egg>
also it inspired ferram4 to do the same \o/
<stratochief|away>
egg|zzz|egg: I try, I don't remember things my brain decides were 'arbitrary', because.. brains.
<xShadowx>
stratochief|away: ngin borked agen can u fix?
<stratochief|away>
xShadowx: then rage follow up post in an hour when nobody was able to fxi ti
* xShadowx
notices the bad spelling is spreading
stratochief|away is now known as stratochief|remote
<stratochief|remote>
'member when there was a 64bit hack
<xShadowx>
fun
<xShadowx>
"your mod works on 64bit fine im going to enable it cuz i know more thsn you"
<stratochief|remote>
hlep, u can fx fur 46bit? plz.
<xShadowx>
i feel like i should throw you in a hole with fire just for keeping those memories alive
* xShadowx
doesnt goto forums anymore and is quite happy
<stratochief|remote>
this is why I am very glad my memory is poor and forgets fairly easily, or else I would be haunted by 10x more bad memories like that. even if it means I can't remember egg's catchy version names :P
<schnobs>
FWIW, stock can well do with a little less porkjet. His parts may look good but only fit together in a certain way. Become creative and it gets extra jarring, specifically because the originals look so good.
<stratochief|remote>
new contributors often come from the forum, double edged sword.
* xShadowx
liked porkjet
<schnobs>
Just try to slip in a reaction wheel between the 1-2 and 2-3 adapters.
<schnobs>
And no, it's not the subpar texture that's to blame. The problem is that the sleek curves become super ugly when interrupted.
<stratochief|remote>
I like the look of many parts, like porkjets, but they do indeed only look really good when put together in a certain way
<xShadowx>
i miss the stuff porkjet was makin pre squad :(
<xShadowx>
has anyone ever made a gemini capsule yet with animated doors / kerbals inside?
<CobaltWolf>
no, sorry
<CobaltWolf>
schnobs: The new models RD has been making for the DLC are fine
<CobaltWolf>
they just need to have decent textures... that was the great part about porkjet
<CobaltWolf>
but
<CobaltWolf>
his style takes a lot of work, and a lot of talent to actually get right. There's a lot of subtle stuff in the way the paint is added to the parts, etc.
<CobaltWolf>
And frankly? I don't think RD can do it.
<CobaltWolf>
even with his $3000 Cintiq
<xShadowx>
i dont mind some over RD more unique stuff
<xShadowx>
like his rover and submarine
<CobaltWolf>
yeah no that stuff is cool
<xShadowx>
but some of other things >.>
<CobaltWolf>
his style is too simple to carry something like the Saturn parts
<schnobs>
Select Gemini Rendezvous and recovery section.
<schnobs>
Click "Decouple".
<schnobs>
(triggers the decoupler while it's stuck fast inside Agena)
<xShadowx>
didnt FASA/VSR already cover apollo?:|
<CobaltWolf>
*cough*
* xShadowx
tends to prune out those parts
<xShadowx>
:x
<Starwaster>
stratochief|away with regards to your statement about complaints being queued and maybe fixed: Sure, unless they are arbitrarily declared to be 'working as designed', declared 'not a bug' and shut down.
<Starwaster>
there's a few of those on the public tracker that positively boggle the mind
* schnobs
gets ready to have his mind boggled
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<Starwaster>
schnobs: issue 9468
<schnobs>
did one always need to login in order to see issues?
<Starwaster>
think so
<schnobs>
nevermind.
<Starwaster>
even on the public side
<Starwaster>
the issue in question was that someone's heat shield was overheating and ablating on the Mun while using drills. The response was that the shield was near the drills and so it was 'expected behavior' that they should overheat
<Starwaster>
THe problem with the response was that it only happened in analytic mode where distance from a heat source becomes irrelevant
<Starwaster>
it was literally impossible to overheat while at 100x or below. Only when crossing the analytic threshold was it possible to overheat
<Starwaster>
FYI, an analytic temperature is chosen for the entire vehicle and applied to every part regardless of thermal mass or placement
<Starwaster>
which is why I'm having a devil of a time with it in Real Fuels
<Starwaster>
and, btw, this is where the cat shit comes in
<schnobs>
heatshield dissolving: Was doing a reddit challenge, quickly to minmus and back. Long, long burns on nukes, and the heatshield would eventually ablate.
<schnobs>
but that was very much not in warp.
<Starwaster>
that's because engines in general and nukes in particular contribute way too much heat to the vehicle
<Starwaster>
probably to give radiators something to do
<acc>
yep
<Starwaster>
IRL, radiators have to handle much less lower levels of heat that just aren't a problem in KSP
<acc>
heat produced by the internal systems
<Starwaster>
your astronauts/cosmonauts can't be allowed to exceed a very thin thermal margin. Small electronics also need thermal control
<Starwaster>
none of which is part of the stock design
<acc>
yeah
<Starwaster>
(astronaut overheating would really be a part of life support)
<acc>
would be cool to have that for RO. so stations and ships really need radiators
<Starwaster>
i.e., not big issues like drills and NTR rockets
<xShadowx>
kabinkraziness
<schnobs>
I'm not aware of Apollo coming with big heatsinks.
<schnobs>
Not sure of Salyut.
<Starwaster>
heat sinks no. radiators yess
<acc>
apollo has some radiators, yes
<Starwaster>
the service module had several smaller radiators around the top ring. And two large ones on the mid section
<Starwaster>
bottom actually sorry
<schnobs>
But more generally, I'm quite happy without heat troubles. It seems to be one of those areas that may be realistic but don't really add to gameplay.
<schnobs>
Like, stock batteries.
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<acc>
I like heatmanagement
<schnobs>
I don't know why stock probes have so small capacities -- basically, you have to add some batteries to every vessel. Not a big deal, really, as long as you don't forget about it.
<schnobs>
Somehow I suspect that heat managment would be similar. More parts, only to have no real effect.
<acc>
crew surviving is a real effect :D
<acc>
or electronics failing and probe shutting down too
<Starwaster>
overheated electronics should crash. overheated Kerbals die if allowed to continue for extended periods
<schnobs>
yeah, but... how do you bring it into the game? You don't really want to get down to the leven where players have to carefully arrrange things inside the service bay, do you?
<acc>
adding sufficient radiators should be enough
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<schnobs>
And if it's a question of gross heat in, gross heat out -- well, that's just another checkbox.
<schnobs>
More parts, and that's that.
<acc>
give it testflight integration, so it can fail :3
<schnobs>
You only ever notice it if you forget -- in other words, setting the player up to fail. Even stock does more than enough of that.
<acc>
that's realism, when there are tons of chances to fail
<schnobs>
And don't even get me started about how our slapped-on realism causes no end of trouble. Hand-tweaking every RCS thruster to use the right kind of fuel. Context-clicking engine types.
<acc>
I love that details
<schnobs>
This afternoon I had lots of trouble with an engine consistently failing. Turned out that it somehow reverted to the most basic model, with a short rated burn time.
<schnobs>
In hindsight it's obvious, but it took me half an hour to figure out what's wrong with the vessel.
<schnobs>
Be assured that I didn't happily smile and say "I love that details"
<acc>
I know such things. but I enjoy that too. find the devil, not giving up until the mission is done
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<acc>
I think you just need to learn how to enjoy failing as progress of success
<stratochief|remote>
CobaltWolf: lol. I expect that the ISS will get a Space Prison first.
<CobaltWolf>
some of the shapes are kinda cool tho
<Starwaster>
parts is parts
<CobaltWolf>
I could see KSP parts based on some of those segments
<stratochief|remote>
acc: or, how to make a good report of the bug, or even a fix for it
<soundnfury>
CobaltWolf: the ISS definitely needs a folly
<soundnfury>
(it's easy, just park a shuttle there ;)
<stratochief|remote>
schnobs: but I'm pretty sure I know the part you mean, the engine(s) for Titan II. that bug has been around for a long time now, despite repeated attempts by NK and Agathorn to staple it down. caused by the vernier config, I believe
<CobaltWolf>
does NK ever come around here anymore?
<schnobs>
stratochief|remote: nope, it was the agena reverting to it's most basic model.
<schnobs>
Mismatched fuels on the first stage would be rather obvious, but I got "random" failures on the upper.
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<soundnfury>
CobaltWolf: occasionally. Once or twice a month he pops in for a couple of hours
<CobaltWolf>
soundnfury: I see
<schnobs>
But (I really gotta go, but just one more) I see similar problems with boiloff -- at it's worst it's negligible. In which case I wonder, why have it in the first place? At it's best, it's still a lot of make-work. At least I'm convinced that it's important enough to justify the hassle.
<schnobs>
But overheating probes?
<schnobs>
The early rangers and stuff had variable slits operated by bimetal strips. Do I really need to reflect this in the game?
<schnobs>
By another part you need to attach?
<CobaltWolf>
Eh, if anything it's another opportunity for greebles
<CobaltWolf>
but what do I know
<CobaltWolf>
I'm an art major
<schnobs>
It won't even add weight because the weight of the probes is know and we carefully adjust our parts to come out to somethign similar in the end.
<schnobs>
So if we add another part, it's mass will come out of the probe body.
<Pap|Away>
Coatl Aerospace hadds som heat management for probes, just for that reason I think
<Qboid>
Pap|Away: acc left a message for you in #RO [06.05.2017 17:19:20]: "have you done the plumes for the SSTU engines?"
<Pap|Away>
acc, I have only done the plumes for the Apollo Service Module. Are there others missing?
Pap|Away is now known as Pap
<acc>
Pap: nah, not missing, but some are not right placed
<schnobs>
And well, yeah, to be fair: at it's best, boiloff encourages speedy departures and pointing your vessel away from the sun. That positively adds to gameplay.
<schnobs>
I don't see any such a positive with general heat managment.
<acc>
but it's realism. and RO is what realism overhaul is for :)
<acc>
what realism is for
<acc>
you get what I mean :D
<schnobs>
yeah but.
<xShadowx>
the same argument could be applied to any mod that adds 'realism' without a major gameplay change, 1 little thing might not seem like much, 100 little things adds up
<schnobs>
from a teachable moment point if view, I don't think it will be worthwhile. Just saying "but realism" will not convince me otherwise.
<schnobs>
Persitant rotation adds realism. However, we're stuck with a guidance system that insists on vessels holding still, so we cannot utilize spin (or only at the cost of spinning them up and winding them down every so often).
<xShadowx>
and 'fast departures' + 'point away from sun' doesnt cover things like landers/bases, who would be in sun
<Pap>
Right schnobs but that is why there are optinal mods to use. Persistent Rotation, RemoteTech, etc they are all optional. If the underlying system sucks to you, then turn it off. That is why RO and RP-0 are not grouped as giant modpacks
<schnobs>
xShadowx: Well, LOH on the lunar surface is bound to turn sour quickly. -- Maybe you should park in the shade?
<xShadowx>
so you want SAS that keeps you pointed at target, but not stop spinning along that axis?
<schnobs>
Ideally, as SAS that's aware of the three-finger rule and makes use of it.
* schnobs
nervously looks at clock
* xShadowx
takes batteries out of clock
<CobaltWolf>
oh snap
<schnobs>
Isn't persistant rotation recommended by now? Part of the default install?
<soundnfury>
schnobs: the great grey-green greasy limpopo greeble, all set about with fever trees?
<Pap>
Recommended, yes, but none of it is required, that is the thing
<schnobs>
And yeah, remote tech. Useful and teaching while you're still in the earch-moon system. But the way we can (not) cope with signal delay makes me turn the latter off.
<xShadowx>
unless it gets added to stock, ruining optional aspect of ksp :P
<xShadowx>
uh several mods cope with signal delay for RT
<xShadowx>
id say KOS would be my fav / most realistic
<Pap>
krpc, kos both work
<schnobs>
In the lesser cases, even smart parts -- at 10kg apiece.
<xShadowx>
krpc doesnt use resources though :|
<xShadowx>
smart parts are nice
<Pap>
xShadowx, you mean Electricity, etc?
<xShadowx>
Pap: yep
<xShadowx>
free computing
<Pap>
schnobs, make some configs for the Smart Parts, that would help all of us ou
<Pap>
out
<schnobs>
Pap: nah, I just turn of signal delay. As should any sane person, unless she enjoys programming.
<Pap>
As do I schnobs
<schnobs>
but now I'm really offski
<soundnfury>
I have it on, but it only seems to affect actions, not steering. Also telemachus bypasses it.
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<xShadowx>
o/
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* stratochief|remote
rips a guitar solo, to announce NathanKell's non-awayness (?)
<NathanKell>
Pap: As I wrote it (and I was all who wrote it for 1.2, although JPLRepo helped a CRAPTON testing it--but he's been fixing things for 1.2.9) it pulls from compiled confignodes in GameDatabase, same as everything else.
<NathanKell>
I certainly never wrote anything to directly access files, that would be insane.
* xShadowx
pokes egg with a goose
<stratochief|remote>
Agathorn: ferram4, any other long term OP's around? I don't see regex in the mix
<Pap>
NathanKell, they figured it out yesterday, well Shadowmage did, just MM needed to be updated to pull it correctly
Olympic1|AWAY is now known as Olympic1
<Pap>
Good to see you NathanKell
<NathanKell>
ah, ok, whew
<NathanKell>
and :)
* xShadowx
thinks Sarbian isn't really away
<stratochief|remote>
isn't it currently late in french time?
<Sarbian>
I left the away flag again ?
<xShadowx>
10pm ish
<xShadowx>
yep :P
<Sarbian>
yeah, 22H before the apocalypse
* xShadowx
noticed it when sarbian was removing garbage in kspmodders
<stratochief|remote>
Sarbian: second round of french democracy?
<Sarbian>
:)
<Sarbian>
Yeah
* xShadowx
supplies beer
<xShadowx>
i dont think NK been around this early in like a year :D
<Pap>
Misjudged my reentry near South America, burned up my probe in the atmo because I couldn't control it, damn Rocket Science
<xShadowx>
wait.... Sarbian is french....egg is french....why do we have a Sarbian but no egg
<stratochief|remote>
egg|zzz|egg has been labelled as zzz since he was talking ~6 hours ago
<egg|zzz|egg>
sarbut sarbian
<egg|zzz|egg>
sarbut NathanKell aussi
<xShadowx>
an egg :D
<egg|zzz|egg>
pour une fois qu'il est réveillé en même temps que moi
<NathanKell>
Egglut, egg
<NathanKell>
Bonegg? Eggjour?
<Sarbian>
Hi all
<NathanKell>
o/
<stratochief|remote>
o/ Sarbian
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: doesn't work all that well (admittedly sarbut sarbian gets old fast, but well, I recycle jokes)
<stratochief|remote>
ashes to ashes, eggs to eggs
<xShadowx>
o.O
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: have you tried rendez-vous with the LVLH frame trajectories
<soundnfury>
I want to combine tschuss and Ei, but tscheiss doesn't sound so good...
<soundnfury>
lo NathanKell
<NathanKell>
I haven't tried _any_ KSP in months so no, sorry...
<xShadowx>
isnt that a crime?
<NathanKell>
hey snf
<NathanKell>
xShadowx: fite me
<stratochief|remote>
xShadowx: even in america, taking a break isn't a crime
<xShadowx>
i wonder what life would be if there were really a law forcing people to play ksp like an hr a day :P
<stratochief|remote>
for most people, an hour shorter and angrier. and the 15 minute load time would be even more aggravating :P
<Sarbian>
^^
<egg|zzz|egg>
:D
<xShadowx>
but with all those people would come more modders, and make it faster / better
<stratochief|remote>
xShadowx: 1. you think adding moar mods to the stack would make things fasters?
<stratochief|remote>
2. do you really think the people legally forced to play a game they've never heard would create new mods? I think they'd topple governments to void the law first
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: ah, maybe you should try playing principia without KSP then :D
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: like that person who wanted to make a utility using our libs
<egg|zzz|egg>
haven't heard from them in a while though
<xShadowx>
stratochief|remote: the load time is from cpu, parsing configs and looping arrays, not much for file load time, a proper cache system well made could load ksp in seconds :P
<NathanKell>
things are good! It's finally raining slightly less
<xShadowx>
NathanKell: enjoy the storm 2 days ago?
<xShadowx>
blue sky, 30 min later black and thunder and lightning hell, 30 min more blue sky, 30 min m,edium stormy, 30 min blue sky, hr medium stormyinto the night
<xShadowx>
weather thinks its a yoyo :D
<NathanKell>
yeah, it was super strong. Lights flickered a bunch
<xShadowx>
accually saw the sky, blue, no clouds, like 5 min period evoved into black clouds
<NathanKell>
Sky was near black about 5pm
<NathanKell>
yeah
<xShadowx>
i had lightning <1/2 mile from me. just flashBANG and i was like.....SHIT THAT WAS CLOSE O.O
<stratochief|remote>
xShadowx: same happened here. I prefer long rumbly thunder storms, not all of it in one strike just down the road
<xShadowx>
heh
<egg|zzz|egg>
(yes it was snowing a week and a half ago)
<egg|zzz|egg>
now it's rain, and next wednesday sun
<NathanKell>
Still, pretty :)
<stratochief|remote>
egg|zzz|egg: they just promise you the sun in the distant forecast, so that you will choose life
* xShadowx
pokes Thomas for not joining us
<Thomas>
Hm?
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: yeah, nice view from my office
<egg|zzz|egg>
hallo thomas
<Thomas>
salut egg|zzz|egg
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: I'm on the top (7th) floor
<xShadowx>
you said hi in other chan so dragged you here XD
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: I actually moved since I took that pic
<egg|zzz|egg>
NathanKell: about a dozen metres :D
<xShadowx>
promotion?
<egg|zzz|egg>
(so I have the same view, and I still have a window seat)
<egg|zzz|egg>
xShadowx: after a month? haha no
<egg|zzz|egg>
just random desk shuffling because people were getting cramped in the cluster of desks on the other side and we were four in a space for 18 people
<egg|zzz|egg>
now we're 4 in a space for 12 people, the director added couches, and the cramped people got decramped a bit
<xShadowx>
and the 4 got more cramped
<egg|zzz|egg>
we still have 12 desks for 4
<egg|zzz|egg>
plus two couches
<xShadowx>
tv?
<soundnfury>
hmm, I should probably actually play some ksp
<xShadowx>
couches are boring without a tv
<NathanKell>
back later, o/
NathanKell is now known as NathanKell|AFK
<xShadowx>
\o
<soundnfury>
ttfn
<egg|zzz|egg>
also for some reason I'm sitting in front of the director (my manager's manager)
<egg|zzz|egg>
I'm on a team with 2 people :D
<xShadowx>
better keep that suit clean then ;p
<egg|zzz|egg>
(counting myself)
<egg|zzz|egg>
my director's desk is 37A, my tech lead's desk is 39A, and my director's admin's desk is 37B, I'm surrounded by Apollo launchpads
<UmbralRaptor>
For all we know, egg could be in a level 4 biohazard area.
<egg|zzz|egg>
(sadly I don't have one, I'm 37H)
<UmbralRaptor>
blarg
<egg|zzz|egg>
amusingly my manager is very far away
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: clearly I should buy that LEGO Saturn V and dump it on my tech lead's desk
<UmbralRaptor>
hah!
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: ... and make Saturn I(b)s for my director and admin (they have standing desks too, that would look like milkstools)
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: ok, ok, they didn't use milkstools in LC 37
Theysen has quit [Quit: Leaving]
<UmbralRaptor>
>_>
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: there are plenty of places in the offices where people have random bits of LEGO, so I'm pretty sure a Saturn V wouldn't be out of place
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: ... in fact phl has a Borg cube containing a USB-connected LED that shows the status of his build
<egg|zzz|egg>
so in addition to ISO 8601 dates, you can give a JD or MJD date in a _TT, _TAI, _UT1, or _UTC literal
<Starwaster>
ok what in the hell is this heathenistic crap about taking breaks from KSP?
<egg|zzz|egg>
arguably JD for _UTC is very odd
<UmbralRaptor>
Starwaster: The first reusable orbital rocket launched April 20, 1981.
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: I guess in a UTC JD on a day with a leap second, the fractional part counts the fraction of 24 h + 1 s?
<Starwaster>
Without even addressing the technical inaccuracy of that statement, that's not the point
<Starwaster>
it's more about Elon himself
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: depends on boring semantics stabbity pedantry on the word "rocket" I guess
<Starwaster>
has anyone noticed the disturbing similarities between Elon Musk and Harrison Wells?
<UmbralRaptor>
egg|zzz|egg: Not even pedantry. It requires outright ignoring that the STS first stage (the SRBs) was reused.
<UmbralRaptor>
And if the ET doesn't count, then neither does the F9 upper stage.
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: hmm, maybe in english, but in french I wouldn't call the STS SRBs with the word for 'rocket'
<egg|zzz|egg>
(I'd use the english word booster, because french is weird)
<egg|zzz|egg>
well, a mispronounced version of that word
<UmbralRaptor>
Raw ket
<UmbralRaptor>
|raw>
<egg|zzz|egg>
:D
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: <i18n_engineer>that's the wrong codepoint, you should use U+27E9 MATHEMATICAL RIGHT ANGLE BRACKET (⟩)</i18n_engineer>
<egg|zzz|egg>
not to be confused with RIGHT ANGLE BRACKET (〉)
<UmbralRaptor>
Stabbity
<egg|zzz|egg>
or the deprecated RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE BRACKET (〉)
<egg|zzz|egg>
!u ⟩〉〉
<Qboid>
U+27E9 MATHEMATICAL RIGHT ANGLE BRACKET (⟩)
<Qboid>
U+3009 RIGHT ANGLE BRACKET (〉)
<Qboid>
U+232A RIGHT-POINTING ANGLE BRACKET (〉)
* UmbralRaptor
also uses the Greek alphabet instead of proper mathematical symbols, so…
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: ah but that's fine if you mean the upright letters
<soundnfury>
UmbralRaptor: one could argue that the SRBs _weren't_ reused, in that the 'engine' part of an SRB is the fuel grain rather than the casing
<soundnfury>
(but that would be splitting of hairs even if it's _not_ wrong)
<egg|zzz|egg>
e.g. in the french mathematical typographical tradition uppercase is upright even in greek iirc
<egg|zzz|egg>
and in ISO typesetting standard symbols are upright, so for instance π is
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: btw, the reason why 〉 is deprecated for mathematical use is that it's canonically equivalent to the CJK punctuation 〉 (it will be turned into one in Normalization Form C), whereas ⟩ is its own thing
<egg|zzz|egg>
UmbralRaptor: see also the fact that you should not use APOSTROPHE (') for apostrophes
<egg|zzz|egg>
(you should use RIGHT SINGLE QUOTATION MARK of course